Where were you? What were you doing?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Where were you? What were you doing?


At work, watching a burning tower on TV, when another jet hit the second
tower, 90 miles from my home.

Then, I volunteered to do whatever I could do to help.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Where were you? What were you doing?


Backing my truck out of the driveway on the way to work. Heard a tower
had apparently been hit by an airplane. My first thought was, "bad weather
and bad Air Traffic Control?" Second thought, "The Empire State was hit by
a B-29 and held, hopefully this turns out as well". About 100 yards down
the driveway, I heard about the second aircraft hitting the second tower.
At that point, it was clear this was a deliberate act. By the time I got
to work, it was very clear that an act of war had been perpetrated on us.
Very eerie over the next several days working at a place next to an airport
with *no* planes except the occasional ANG F-16 flying.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

watched the seconded place hit the second tower .then looked out my window
and saw the plane hit the pentagon. they would not let us help, so we just
stood and watched.


len

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:11:06 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

Second thought, "The Empire State was hit by a B-29 and held,
hopefully this turns out as well".

Just for the record, it was a B-25 that hit the Empire State
Building--a much smaller aircraft.

Note of personal interest, the pilot had been my father's squadron
commander in England during the war.



--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

Mark & Juanita wrote:

Very eerie over the next several days working at a place next to an airport
with *no* planes except the occasional ANG F-16 flying.



That was weird. We would soak in our outdoor spa and see no contrails.
There has never been a time in my entire life where I'd seen a sky
without contrails.

Each evening, from about 7-10p, I can see a long, steady line of
European-bound jets from JFK, as they climb to cruise altitude. The
lack of traffic was so strange.

In article ,
says...
Stormin Mormon wrote:

Where were you? What were you doing?


Backing my truck out of the driveway on the way to work. Heard a tower
had apparently been hit by an airplane. My first thought was, "bad weather
and bad Air Traffic Control?" Second thought, "The Empire State was hit by
a B-29 and held, hopefully this turns out as well".

I was at work when the guy in the net cube said that an airplane had
hit the tower. I thought it was a Cessna from La Guardia or some
such. ...but it was a perfectly clear, coolish, September day. How
did someone make that blunder? When I flipped my browser over to
Drudge I knew something really bad had happened. I'd seen a program
on the design of the towers and that hit looked bad indeed.

About 100 yards down
the driveway, I heard about the second aircraft hitting the second tower.

There was more than "100yds" difference between the hits.

At that point, it was clear this was a deliberate act. By the time I got
to work, it was very clear that an act of war had been perpetrated on us.
Very eerie over the next several days working at a place next to an airport
with *no* planes except the occasional ANG F-16 flying.

I was living in Burlington Vermont at the time. The VTANG did a lot
of the NYC air defense. The F-16s were scrambling out of BTV at all
hours of the day and night.

--
Keith

"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:11:06 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

Second thought, "The Empire State was hit by a B-29 and held,
hopefully this turns out as well".

Just for the record, it was a B-25 that hit the Empire State
Building--a much smaller aircraft.

Note of personal interest, the pilot had been my father's squadron
commander in England during the war.

I didn't know B25s were deployed in Europe. My dad flew in one as a turret
gunner with the Marines in the Pacific.

"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:11:06 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

Second thought, "The Empire State was hit by a B-29 and held,
hopefully this turns out as well".

Just for the record, it was a B-25 that hit the Empire State
Building--a much smaller aircraft.


Thanks for the correction



--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

krw wrote:

In article ,
says...
Stormin Mormon wrote:

Where were you? What were you doing?


Backing my truck out of the driveway on the way to work. Heard a tower
had apparently been hit by an airplane. My first thought was, "bad
weather and bad Air Traffic Control?" Second thought, "The Empire State
was hit by a B-29 and held, hopefully this turns out as well".

I was at work when the guy in the net cube said that an airplane had
hit the tower. I thought it was a Cessna from La Guardia or some
such. ...but it was a perfectly clear, coolish, September day. How
did someone make that blunder? When I flipped my browser over to
Drudge I knew something really bad had happened. I'd seen a program
on the design of the towers and that hit looked bad indeed.

About 100 yards down
the driveway, I heard about the second aircraft hitting the second tower.

There was more than "100yds" difference between the hits.


When I had gotten in the truck, it had been some time since the first
tower was struck; that was the first time I had heard about it, we don't
usually have TV's or radios going while we get ready for work so this was
my first hearing of news that morning. Thus, the timing of the second hit
relative to when I heard about it.





--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Buddy Matlosz wrote:


I didn't know B25s were deployed in Europe. My dad flew in one as a turret
gunner with the Marines in the Pacific.


Apparently so, there are commercially produced models depicting them:

http://www.diecastairplane.com/store/p/2715-B-25-Mitchell-II-Northwestern-Europe-1-72-.html

Buddy Matlosz wrote:

I didn't know B25s were deployed in Europe. My dad flew in one as a
turret
gunner with the Marines in the Pacific.

Way back when I was a kid interested in model airplanes, especially
WWII equipment, I remember the B-25 was deployed in Europe in the
final months, probably less than a year.

I wouldn't bet the farm on the above.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
Buddy Matlosz wrote:

I didn't know B25s were deployed in Europe. My dad flew in one as a
turret
gunner with the Marines in the Pacific.

Way back when I was a kid interested in model airplanes, especially
WWII equipment, I remember the B-25 was deployed in Europe in the
final months, probably less than a year.

I wouldn't bet the farm on the above.

The RAF had about 900 of them and started using them in 1943. The
USAAC used them in "Torch" and other Mediterranean operations.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
Buddy Matlosz wrote:

I didn't know B25s were deployed in Europe. My dad flew in one as a
turret
gunner with the Marines in the Pacific.
Way back when I was a kid interested in model airplanes, especially
WWII equipment, I remember the B-25 was deployed in Europe in the
final months, probably less than a year.

I wouldn't bet the farm on the above.

The RAF had about 900 of them and started using them in 1943. The
USAAC used them in "Torch" and other Mediterranean operations.

and used by Gen Doolittle in the Tokyo raid in 1942. Used mainly for
low level bombing and strafing runs.

On Sep 13, 7:11*pm, jo4hn wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
Buddy Matlosz wrote:

I didn't know B25s were deployed in Europe. My dad flew in one as a
turret
gunner with the Marines in the Pacific.
Way back when I was a kid interested in model airplanes, especially
WWII equipment, I remember the B-25 was deployed in Europe in the
final months, probably less than a year.

I wouldn't bet the farm on the above.

The RAF had about 900 of them and started using them in 1943. *The
USAAC used them in "Torch" and other Mediterranean operations.

and used by Gen Doolittle in the Tokyo raid in 1942. *Used mainly for
low level bombing and strafing runs.

Yup.. nice, slow stall speed. Got them off a carrier with relative
ease. That Tokyo raid..man..I watched a History Channel doc on that
just the other day...those guys needed wheelbarrows to carry their
balls.

jo4hn wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
Buddy Matlosz wrote:

I didn't know B25s were deployed in Europe. My dad flew in one as
a
turret
gunner with the Marines in the Pacific.
Way back when I was a kid interested in model airplanes,
especially
WWII equipment, I remember the B-25 was deployed in Europe in the
final months, probably less than a year.

I wouldn't bet the farm on the above.

The RAF had about 900 of them and started using them in 1943. The
USAAC used them in "Torch" and other Mediterranean operations.

and used by Gen Doolittle in the Tokyo raid in 1942.

But that wasn't Europe.

Used mainly for
low level bombing and strafing runs.

Yep. Stuck as many guns in the nose as they could fit.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Doug Winterburn wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
jo4hn wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
Buddy Matlosz wrote:

I didn't know B25s were deployed in Europe. My dad flew in one
as
a
turret
gunner with the Marines in the Pacific.
Way back when I was a kid interested in model airplanes,
especially
WWII equipment, I remember the B-25 was deployed in Europe in
the
final months, probably less than a year.

I wouldn't bet the farm on the above.
The RAF had about 900 of them and started using them in 1943.
The
USAAC used them in "Torch" and other Mediterranean operations.

and used by Gen Doolittle in the Tokyo raid in 1942.

But that wasn't Europe.

Used mainly for
low level bombing and strafing runs.

Yep. Stuck as many guns in the nose as they could fit.


Not to mention the two waist, one top and one tail turrets.

I think some models had three nose canons plus two side nose guns.

Some models had a 75mm cannon in addition to ten forward firing .50
caliber machine guns. Others had 14 forward firing .50s and no
cannon.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 21:32:20 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Yep. Stuck as many guns in the nose as they could fit.


There was even a couple of variants, B-25G and H, that mounted a 75mm
cannon in the nose. Awesome firepower for ground attacks but
understand it wasn't very successful for one reason or another. Don't
know of any other airframe that sported a field artillery piece.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

J. Clarke wrote:
jo4hn wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
Buddy Matlosz wrote:

I didn't know B25s were deployed in Europe. My dad flew in one as
a
turret
gunner with the Marines in the Pacific.
Way back when I was a kid interested in model airplanes,
especially
WWII equipment, I remember the B-25 was deployed in Europe in the
final months, probably less than a year.

I wouldn't bet the farm on the above.
The RAF had about 900 of them and started using them in 1943. The
USAAC used them in "Torch" and other Mediterranean operations.

and used by Gen Doolittle in the Tokyo raid in 1942.

But that wasn't Europe.

Used mainly for
low level bombing and strafing runs.

Yep. Stuck as many guns in the nose as they could fit.


My first instructor pilot was a veteran of the Polesti raids. He served
in the same group as tail gunner Joe. They flew in B-25's.

Dave N

J. Clarke wrote:
Doug Winterburn wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
jo4hn wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
Buddy Matlosz wrote:

I didn't know B25s were deployed in Europe. My dad flew in one
as
a
turret
gunner with the Marines in the Pacific.
Way back when I was a kid interested in model airplanes,
especially
WWII equipment, I remember the B-25 was deployed in Europe in
the
final months, probably less than a year.

I wouldn't bet the farm on the above.
The RAF had about 900 of them and started using them in 1943.
The
USAAC used them in "Torch" and other Mediterranean operations.

and used by Gen Doolittle in the Tokyo raid in 1942.
But that wasn't Europe.

Used mainly for
low level bombing and strafing runs.
Yep. Stuck as many guns in the nose as they could fit.

Not to mention the two waist, one top and one tail turrets.

I think some models had three nose canons plus two side nose guns.

Some models had a 75mm cannon in addition to ten forward firing .50
caliber machine guns. Others had 14 forward firing .50s and no
cannon.

The cannon breach was clear back in the pilot's compartment.

Tom Veatch wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 21:32:20 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Yep. Stuck as many guns in the nose as they could fit.


There was even a couple of variants, B-25G and H, that mounted a 75mm
cannon in the nose. Awesome firepower for ground attacks but
understand it wasn't very successful for one reason or another. Don't
know of any other airframe that sported a field artillery piece.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA
The AC-130's carry 75's in addition to gat's starting in Vietnam.

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 21:32:20 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Yep. Stuck as many guns in the nose as they could fit.


There was even a couple of variants, B-25G and H, that mounted a
75mm
cannon in the nose. Awesome firepower for ground attacks but
understand it wasn't very successful for one reason or another.

Low rate of fire.

Don't
know of any other airframe that sported a field artillery piece.

Mosquite FB Mk XVIII had a 57mm antitank gun, a prototype was flown
with a 90mm without problems. JU88P and P-1 had 75mm antitank guns,
the P-2, P-3, and P-4 variants had smaller guns with a higher rate of
fire.

Postwar, the AC130E, H, and U variants have 105mm howitzers. They
address the rate of fire problem by firing it out the side as the
pilot circles the target. It's a bit surprising that the side-firer
ground-attack concept never occurred to anybody during WWII.

Incidentally, check out the bottom photo at
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-...pooky-puff.htm
for a marvelous depiction of a side-firer at work as seen from the
ground, and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z6YDipaWX8 is a recording
through the infrared sight on a real AC-130 mission (warning--real
people die in that one).

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

David G. Nagel wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
jo4hn wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
Buddy Matlosz wrote:

I didn't know B25s were deployed in Europe. My dad flew in one
as
a
turret
gunner with the Marines in the Pacific.
Way back when I was a kid interested in model airplanes,
especially
WWII equipment, I remember the B-25 was deployed in Europe in
the
final months, probably less than a year.

I wouldn't bet the farm on the above.
The RAF had about 900 of them and started using them in 1943.
The
USAAC used them in "Torch" and other Mediterranean operations.

and used by Gen Doolittle in the Tokyo raid in 1942.

But that wasn't Europe.

Used mainly for
low level bombing and strafing runs.

Yep. Stuck as many guns in the nose as they could fit.


My first instructor pilot was a veteran of the Polesti raids. He
served in the same group as tail gunner Joe. They flew in B-25's.

While it's a nice story, Tail Gunner Joe (the famous one who later
became a US Senator, that is, there might have been someone else
called "Tail Gunner Joe") flew his combat missions as a
gunner-observer in SBD dive bombers in the Solomons, and the Ploesti
raid was flown by B-24s, not B-25s.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Robatoy wrote:

Yup.. nice, slow stall speed. Got them off a carrier with relative
ease. That Tokyo raid..man..I watched a History Channel doc on that
just the other day...those guys needed wheelbarrows to carry their
balls.

The first time I saw a B-25 in person, I was blown away by the small
size. The thing looks so much bigger in photos.

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 00:17:57 -0500, Tom Veatch wrote:

There was even a couple of variants, B-25G and H, that mounted a 75mm
cannon in the nose. Awesome firepower for ground attacks but
understand it wasn't very successful for one reason or another. Don't
know of any other airframe that sported a field artillery piece.

AC-130, 105mm howitzer.

Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618

On Sep 11, 12:01*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Where were you? What were you doing?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

At a motel in New Orleans.

End U.S. support for a State of Israel.

On Sep 14, 1:17*am, Tom Veatch wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 21:32:20 -0400, "J. Clarke"

wrote:
Yep. *Stuck as many guns in the nose as they could fit.

There was even a couple of variants, B-25G and H, that mounted a 75mm
cannon in the nose. Awesome firepower for ground attacks but
understand it wasn't very successful for one reason or another. Don't
know of any other airframe that sported a field artillery piece.


The ground attack version of the B25 got its start as a field
modification in the Pacific. They took out the bombadier's
station and filled the space with as many .50 cals as they
could fit in. They also took off the draggy belly turret which
was raised the top speed an lowered the stall speed. (The
earliest versions of the B-25 without the belly turret were
nearly 100 mph faster than the later models).

Straffing is usually done at high speed for a variety of
rather obvious reasons.

These generally were not used for 'ground' attack per se,
but for straffing Japanese shipping, particularly freighters
and troop transports. Their success led to the B-25 H and
J which came equipped with the extra guns or 75 mm
canon straight from the factory, and some could even
carry rockets or a torpedo, though I don't know how
successful those were.

A B25 is a pretty big target which may have limited its
usefulness for attacking more heavily defended targets.

--

FF

On Sep 12, 12:11*am, Mark & Juanita wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Where were you? What were you doing?

* Backing my truck out of the driveway on the way to work. *...
At that point, it was clear this was a deliberate act. *By the time I got
to work, it was very clear that an act of war had been perpetrated on us.
...

That was to be the first day of my vacation. I got up. cleaned
the house, packed my bags, then went out to walk my dog.
I noticed two teenagers, twin girls about 15-16 whom I frequently
saw walking to school sitting on a bench at a playground which
I thought was odd since it was about 11:00 am. They were
trying to call someone on a cell phone and seemed to be upset.
One of the other neighbors was with them so I went on by
and back to my house. There I called my mother to tell her
I was leaving and should be there by dinner time.

She told me about the attacks. I got off the phone and switched
on the TV, watched the news for about 30 minutes. One thing
that stick sin my mind was the 'coincidental' crash of a jetliner
in Pennsylvania, what, according to Peter Jennings, would
have ordinarily been the lead story but was, on that day,
merely a footnote. That plane was United 93. At the time
there were reports of up to twenty jetliners till unaccounted for.

I called my mother back and told her that would be postponing
my vacation, and it would be a couple of days before I would
call again because we were being asked to keep the phone
lines clear for emergency communications.

Then I went on in to work. The roads were choked with
traffic as I had never seen them before, moving slowly
but steadily and every driver was courteous.

I went in to work because it was what I could do to help.
That's not because my job was related to the emergency
services, but because we are all part of a larger whole
and doing our jobs,whatever they be, contributes in
some way.

That was what, IMHO, all Americans and indeed, people
all around the world needed to hear the aftermath of the
attacks. To get out and work, take an active role, contribute
to making the world a better place, help to eliminate the
people who fly airliners into buildings.

Instead we were told to stay home, hide, and our leaders
would take care of it for us.

--

FF

J. Clarke wrote:
David G. Nagel wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
jo4hn wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
Buddy Matlosz wrote:

I didn't know B25s were deployed in Europe. My dad flew in one
as
a
turret
gunner with the Marines in the Pacific.
Way back when I was a kid interested in model airplanes,
especially
WWII equipment, I remember the B-25 was deployed in Europe in
the
final months, probably less than a year.

I wouldn't bet the farm on the above.
The RAF had about 900 of them and started using them in 1943.
The
USAAC used them in "Torch" and other Mediterranean operations.

and used by Gen Doolittle in the Tokyo raid in 1942.
But that wasn't Europe.

Used mainly for
low level bombing and strafing runs.
Yep. Stuck as many guns in the nose as they could fit.

My first instructor pilot was a veteran of the Polesti raids. He
served in the same group as tail gunner Joe. They flew in B-25's.

While it's a nice story, Tail Gunner Joe (the famous one who later
became a US Senator, that is, there might have been someone else
called "Tail Gunner Joe") flew his combat missions as a
gunner-observer in SBD dive bombers in the Solomons, and the Ploesti
raid was flown by B-24s, not B-25s.


I think it's called TRUST BUT VERIFY. I did but didn't. Sorry for the
bad information.
btw Read the WIKI entry on the good Senator. He should have been SWIFT
BOATED.

B A R R Y wrote:

Robatoy wrote:

Yup.. nice, slow stall speed. Got them off a carrier with relative
ease. That Tokyo raid..man..I watched a History Channel doc on that
just the other day...those guys needed wheelbarrows to carry their
balls.

The first time I saw a B-25 in person, I was blown away by the small
size. The thing looks so much bigger in photos.

Yep, and those tail and nose guns: the guys who had to man those were
some wiry dudes -- not exactly palatial surroundings

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Fred the Red Shirt wrote:

On Sep 12, 12:11Â*am, Mark & Juanita wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Where were you? What were you doing?

Backing my truck out of the driveway on the way to work. Â*...
At that point, it was clear this was a deliberate act. Â*By the time I got
to work, it was very clear that an act of war had been perpetrated on us.
...

.... snip
I went in to work because it was what I could do to help.
That's not because my job was related to the emergency
services, but because we are all part of a larger whole
and doing our jobs,whatever they be, contributes in
some way.

That was what, IMHO, all Americans and indeed, people
all around the world needed to hear the aftermath of the
attacks. To get out and work, take an active role, contribute
to making the world a better place, help to eliminate the
people who fly airliners into buildings.

Instead we were told to stay home, hide, and our leaders
would take care of it for us.

You must not have listened to the same speech from the same president
because the former is exactly what he told us to do -- keep up the economy
and that those who supported the people who flew airplanes into buildings
would be pursued and eliminated.

Please provide a cite where we were told to stay home and hide.

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

on 9/12/2008 9:10 PM Buddy Matlosz said the following:

"LRod" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:11:06 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

Second thought, "The Empire State was hit by a B-29 and held,
hopefully this turns out as well".

Just for the record, it was a B-25 that hit the Empire State
Building--a much smaller aircraft.

Note of personal interest, the pilot had been my father's squadron
commander in England during the war.

I didn't know B25s were deployed in Europe. My dad flew in one as a
turret
gunner with the Marines in the Pacific.

They were flown in Europe in large numbers, mostly by our allies. The
RAF flew them in Europe and North Africa.
The Russians flew them in Eastern Europe.



--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
in the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Sep 14, 8:04*pm, Mark & Juanita wrote:
Fred the Red Shirt wrote:





On Sep 12, 12:11*am, Mark & Juanita wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Where were you? What were you doing?

Backing my truck out of the driveway on the way to work. *...
At that point, it was clear this was a deliberate act. *By the time I got
to work, it was very clear that an act of war had been perpetrated on us.
...

... snip
I went in to work because it was what I could do to help.
That's not because my job was related to the emergency
services, but because we are all part of a larger whole
and doing our jobs,whatever they be, contributes in
some way.

That was what, IMHO, all Americans and indeed, people
all around the world needed to hear the aftermath of the
attacks. *To get out and work, take an active role, contribute
to making the world a better place, *help to eliminate the
people who fly airliners into buildings.

Instead we were told to stay home, hide, and our leaders
would take care of it for us.

* You must not have listened to the same speech from the same president
because the former is exactly what he told us to do -- keep up the economy
and that those who supported the people who flew airplanes into buildings
would be pursued and eliminated.

* Please provide a cite where we were told to stay home and hide.
..

No, that is not literally what he said.

ISTR that is what you call hyperbole.

It was implicit from the lack of any call for participation.

I do not remember anything about keeping up the economy,
perhaps that came later.

I was most disturbed by the absence of any exhortation
to re-affirm and uphold our values as a nation, to have
faith in our Constitution, and laws.

--

FF