"BoyntonStu" wrote in message

Put a weight on a shovel face and try to lift it
while gripping only the shovel handle. Repeat
sliding one hand down near the business end.
Compare efforts.


Place the tip of the shovel face on the ground.

Is it easier to tip the load upwards with a short handle or with a
long handle?

Without a fulcrum obviously the short handle is
preferred, as I intimated above.

On Apr 16, 9:00 am, "Greg Neill" wrote:
"BoyntonStu" wrote in message



Put a weight on a shovel face and try to lift it
while gripping only the shovel handle. Repeat
sliding one hand down near the business end.
Compare efforts.

Place the tip of the shovel face on the ground.

Is it easier to tip the load upwards with a short handle or with a
long handle?

Without a fulcrum obviously the short handle is
preferred, as I intimated above.

The fulcrum is offset from the lever handle by the length of the
plywood plate.

"BoyntonStu" wrote in message

On Apr 16, 9:00 am, "Greg Neill" wrote:
"BoyntonStu" wrote in message



Put a weight on a shovel face and try to lift it
while gripping only the shovel handle. Repeat
sliding one hand down near the business end.
Compare efforts.

Place the tip of the shovel face on the ground.

Is it easier to tip the load upwards with a short handle or with a
long handle?

Without a fulcrum obviously the short handle is
preferred, as I intimated above.

The fulcrum is offset from the lever handle by the length of the
plywood plate.

What fulcrum would that be, and how does it result
in a downward directed force on the saw and plate?
The saw is fixed to the plate, right? Torquing the
handle about the fulcrum would lift the rear end of
the plate, and wouldn't do much to prevent the whole
saw + plate assembly from lifting out of the cut.

On Apr 16, 1:33 pm, "Greg Neill" wrote:
"BoyntonStu" wrote in message





On Apr 16, 9:00 am, "Greg Neill" wrote:
"BoyntonStu" wrote in message



Put a weight on a shovel face and try to lift it
while gripping only the shovel handle. Repeat
sliding one hand down near the business end.
Compare efforts.

Place the tip of the shovel face on the ground.

Is it easier to tip the load upwards with a short handle or with a
long handle?

Without a fulcrum obviously the short handle is
preferred, as I intimated above.

The fulcrum is offset from the lever handle by the length of the
plywood plate.

What fulcrum would that be, and how does it result
in a downward directed force on the saw and plate?
The saw is fixed to the plate, right? Torquing the
handle about the fulcrum would lift the rear end of
the plate, and wouldn't do much to prevent the whole
saw + plate assembly from lifting out of the cut.

If you push the angled handle to make a cut, the effort will resolve
into 2 components: (1) forward and (2) downwards.

I never feel any lifting feedback.

Have you ever experienced a kickback or a lift using a circular saw?

I have worn out several in my lifetime and I have yet to see any
difficulty in this arena.

Hence, my 'gadget'.

"BoyntonStu" wrote in message


If you push the angled handle to make a cut, the effort will resolve
into 2 components: (1) forward and (2) downwards.

True.


I never feel any lifting feedback.

Have you ever experienced a kickback or a lift using a circular saw?

I've had cases where binding caused some pretty radical
saw motions that required firm hand control.


I have worn out several in my lifetime and I have yet to see any
difficulty in this arena.

Hence, my 'gadget'.

Well, good luck with that.

"BoyntonStu" wrote in message
...


Have you ever experienced a kickback or a lift using a circular saw?

I have worn out several in my lifetime and I have yet to see any
difficulty in this arena.

Hence, my 'gadget'.


Kickback or "lift" from a circular saw? More times than I could possibly
count! A couple times just the other day!
Greg

On Apr 16, 9:55 pm, "Greg O" wrote:
"BoyntonStu" wrote in message

...



Have you ever experienced a kickback or a lift using a circular saw?

I have worn out several in my lifetime and I have yet to see any
difficulty in this arena.

Hence, my 'gadget'.

Kickback or "lift" from a circular saw? More times than I could possibly
count! A couple times just the other day!
Greg

Greg,

What were you cutting and please explain your setup.

"BoyntonStu" wrote in message
...
On Apr 16, 9:55 pm, "Greg O" wrote:
"BoyntonStu" wrote in message

...



Have you ever experienced a kickback or a lift using a circular saw?

I have worn out several in my lifetime and I have yet to see any
difficulty in this arena.

Hence, my 'gadget'.

Kickback or "lift" from a circular saw? More times than I could possibly
count! A couple times just the other day!
Greg

Greg,

What were you cutting and please explain your setup.

Cutting up old flooring I was ripping out.
Last summer I ripped some treated pine boards for a deck.
Both times I had trouble with binding, the saw wanted to kick back and lift
out of the cut.

You know, it is funny. You built a saw extension handle that you think is
the best thing since sliced bread, and pretty much everyone here says no way
they would use it! Seems to be an indicator of sorts.
Have fun with your new gizmo, and I hope you don't cut your leg off with the
thing! There is no way I would ever use it!
Greg

On Apr 17, 12:11 am, "Greg O" wrote:
"BoyntonStu" wrote in message

...



On Apr 16, 9:55 pm, "Greg O" wrote:
"BoyntonStu" wrote in message

...

Have you ever experienced a kickback or a lift using a circular saw?

I have worn out several in my lifetime and I have yet to see any
difficulty in this arena.

Hence, my 'gadget'.

Kickback or "lift" from a circular saw? More times than I could possibly
count! A couple times just the other day!
Greg

Greg,

What were you cutting and please explain your setup.

Cutting up old flooring I was ripping out.
Last summer I ripped some treated pine boards for a deck.
Both times I had trouble with binding, the saw wanted to kick back and lift
out of the cut.

You know, it is funny. You built a saw extension handle that you think is
the best thing since sliced bread, and pretty much everyone here says no way
they would use it! Seems to be an indicator of sorts.
Have fun with your new gizmo, and I hope you don't cut your leg off with the
thing! There is no way I would ever use it!
Greg

Whenever I design something I ask myself, "what's he worst thing that
could happen?"

I am walking along 2 feet behind the saw and 1 foot alongside it.

Suddenly the saw kicks back and it jumps a foot into the air.

The blade guard would close off the danger before the saw could cut
anything.

(That is what it was designed to do)

If the blade guard failed, I still would have the handle in my hand
and I believe that I could prevent the saw from coming near me.
Besides, what is the trajectory? It is not a free object.

Add a safety lift-off switch and the power would be cut off as well.

Have I left anything out?

"BoyntonStu" wrote

Have I left anything out?

Absolutely ... the ubiquitous empty space between most ears.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/27/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Apr 14, 9:32 am, BoyntonStu wrote:
As an aside, if either of us got hurt for any reason while we were
cutting our plywood, which one of us would have to lie to collect the
insurance?

Neither, but I am willing to bet that keeping feet and hands further
away from from the blade is safer than up close.

I hope neither of us have to find out but I suspect that as soon as
the insurance company found out about your gadget they'd immediately
say you had modified the say beyond its intended use and cancel
payment.

I would even go so far as to say that every saw manufacturer would
also say that, and refuse any warranty work on a saw modified in this
manner.

Both would happen regardless of whether the modification itself is
safe or not. Doesn't matter whether you or I are right about whether
it's safe. Insurance and manufacturer would both use it as an excuse
to renege.

On Apr 17, 11:50 am, " wrote:
On Apr 14, 9:32 am, BoyntonStu wrote:

As an aside, if either of us got hurt for any reason while we were
cutting our plywood, which one of us would have to lie to collect the
insurance?

Neither, but I am willing to bet that keeping feet and hands further
away from from the blade is safer than up close.

I hope neither of us have to find out but I suspect that as soon as
the insurance company found out about your gadget they'd immediately
say you had modified the say beyond its intended use and cancel
payment.

I would even go so far as to say that every saw manufacturer would
also say that, and refuse any warranty work on a saw modified in this
manner.

Both would happen regardless of whether the modification itself is
safe or not. Doesn't matter whether you or I are right about whether
it's safe. Insurance and manufacturer would both use it as an excuse
to renege.

Perhaps, but I do not live my life worrying about what insurance
companies might do if something may possibly happen.

As an aside, if either of us got hurt for any reason while we were
cutting our plywood, which one of us would have to lie to collect the
insurance?


Neither, but I am willing to bet that keeping feet and hands further
away from from the blade is safer than up close.

You would lose that bet...the closer you are TO a "thing"(saw, drill,
whatever) the more control you have WITH said thing.

On Apr 19, 8:01 pm, "The Davenport's" wrote:
As an aside, if either of us got hurt for any reason while we were
cutting our plywood, which one of us would have to lie to collect the
insurance?

Neither, but I am willing to bet that keeping feet and hands further
away from from the blade is safer than up close.

You would lose that bet...the closer you are TO a "thing"(saw, drill,
whatever) the more control you have WITH said thing.

Safer, not necessarily more control.

(We can argue control next.)

If the saw is in your hand and for some reason it jumps off the board,
it would be then closer to your body than if held by a handle 4 feet
away and unable to reach you (before the blade guard is in place).

If the blade can't reach you, it cannot cut you.

"BoyntonStu" wrote in message
If the saw is in your hand and for some reason it jumps off the board,
it would be then closer to your body than if held by a handle 4 feet
away and unable to reach you (before the blade guard is in place).

If the blade can't reach you, it cannot cut you.

"Safer" does not necessarily mean because you're not cut. The saw might fly
off the board and decapitate the dog. The spinning blade might hit the floor
and bounce the saw, turning that family heirloom you were in the process of
fixing into so much kindling.

Or, since personal injury seems to be the "safe" that's on your mind, the
flying saw might crash to the ground, chip a carbide tooth and send it
flying into your leg, cutting your femoral artery at which point you fall to
the ground and bleed to death in a few very fast minutes.

As an aside, if either of us got hurt for any reason while we were
cutting our plywood, which one of us would have to lie to collect the
insurance?

Neither, but I am willing to bet that keeping feet and hands further
away from from the blade is safer than up close.

You would lose that bet...the closer you are TO a "thing"(saw, drill,
whatever) the more control you have WITH said thing.

Safer, not necessarily more control.

Control _IS_ safer.

If I'm using a circular saw and it kick out of the cut and I'm holding the
saw itself, I will have the control to put the thing out of harms way...that
is away from me and my legs.

The other thing is that if I'm holding the saw handles that the maker put on
it, I can FEEL what's happening and if the saw starts to kick, I can release
the power switch, the blade stops, no harm, no foul.

snip

If the blade can't reach you, it cannot cut you.

And THAT is exactly my point!!!!