Often it has been discussed how to best collect dust created by a SCMS or
CMS. The answer has almost always been, it cannot be done with great
results. Many have shown devised setups that seem to work well but is it
also reported that regardless of how well these modifications work there is
still a pretty good mess to clean up. On top of that, the collector is most
often stationary or part of a stationary stand.
Changing direction for a bit here it has often been mentioned the seemingly
excessive expense of certain brand tools and how the expense would prevent a
person from ever considering that brand. As true with anything the initial
cost of purchasing a tool will always be out of someone's price range. At
one time PC products were a stretch for me, fortunately I have over come
that obstacle.
Back on topic, I was watching "Ask" This Old House today and noticed Tommy
using a new tool. In recent months Tommy has been using a lot of new tools
and not too coincidentally they are of the same brand. Is he or Ask TOH
using a new sponsor? I have not seen credits going to this company nor does
a search of this company on the "Ask" TOH web site turn up any results. Of
all the wood working shows and talented professionals on these type shows I
have never heard any discouraging words that would indicate that he does not
carry the respect of most any wood worker.
A viewer asked "Ask" TOH to help him out with crown moldings in his kitchen.
The homeowner had been able to do most every thing himself but the crown
moldings in a seemingly complicated area had him baffled. Tommy stepped in
and showed how to cut crown molding for irregular angled corners with a
SCMS. No coping, all cuts were done on the SCMS, right there inside the
house. It took me a few minutes to realize that there was not a cloud of
saw dust in side the homeowners house. For that matter I backed the video
up and watched the cuts being made and again did not notice any saw dust
escaping. Then I saw a black hose with green stripes in it. Hum the mostly
black SCMS had a few green spots on it as well. Backing up again and
forwarding frame by frame revealed the Festool name on the SCMS motor
housing. The saw is not available for sale in the US yet so I would be sure
that the saw was probably donated but it was certainly not promoted in the
show or web site. Surely this is going to be another expensive product from
Festool and many are not going to be able to justify the price of this
machine. For those that make a living using their wood working tools I can
see how this saw would be a big benefit when working inside a customers home
and not having to set up shop in the rain or snow so many yards away from
the project. Imagine not having to put up dust screens or go in and out
side the home time after time to saw or sand pieces on the project. Imagine
not tracking saw dust all over the house on the way outside to make another
cut. Imagine this 2 hour crown molding job only taking 20 minutes because
you spend your time working and not cleaning up, walking in and out side
time after time for a 10 second cut.

"Leon" wrote in message
...
Often it has been discussed how to best collect dust created by a SCMS or
CMS. The answer has almost always been, it cannot be done with great
results. Many have shown devised setups that seem to work well but is it
also reported that regardless of how well these modifications work there
is still a pretty good mess to clean up. On top of that, the collector is
most often stationary or part of a stationary stand.
Changing direction for a bit here it has often been mentioned the
seemingly excessive expense of certain brand tools and how the expense
would prevent a person from ever considering that brand. As true with
anything the initial cost of purchasing a tool will always be out of
someone's price range. At one time PC products were a stretch for me,
fortunately I have over come that obstacle.
Back on topic, I was watching "Ask" This Old House today and noticed Tommy
using a new tool. In recent months Tommy has been using a lot of new
tools and not too coincidentally they are of the same brand. Is he or Ask
TOH using a new sponsor? I have not seen credits going to this company
nor does a search of this company on the "Ask" TOH web site turn up any
results. Of all the wood working shows and talented professionals on
these type shows I have never heard any discouraging words that would
indicate that he does not carry the respect of most any wood worker.
A viewer asked "Ask" TOH to help him out with crown moldings in his
kitchen. The homeowner had been able to do most every thing himself but
the crown moldings in a seemingly complicated area had him baffled. Tommy
stepped in and showed how to cut crown molding for irregular angled
corners with a SCMS. No coping, all cuts were done on the SCMS, right
there inside the house. It took me a few minutes to realize that there
was not a cloud of saw dust in side the homeowners house. For that matter
I backed the video up and watched the cuts being made and again did not
notice any saw dust escaping. Then I saw a black hose with green stripes
in it. Hum the mostly black SCMS had a few green spots on it as well.
Backing up again and forwarding frame by frame revealed the Festool name
on the SCMS motor housing. The saw is not available for sale in the US
yet so I would be sure that the saw was probably donated but it was
certainly not promoted in the show or web site. Surely this is going to
be another expensive product from Festool and many are not going to be
able to justify the price of this machine. For those that make a living
using their wood working tools I can see how this saw would be a big
benefit when working inside a customers home and not having to set up shop
in the rain or snow so many yards away from the project. Imagine not
having to put up dust screens or go in and out side the home time after
time to saw or sand pieces on the project. Imagine not tracking saw dust
all over the house on the way outside to make another cut. Imagine this 2
hour crown molding job only taking 20 minutes because you spend your time
working and not cleaning up, walking in and out side time after time for a
10 second cut.



Although I can afford a few of those nice Festool toys, I really can't
justify the price for a casual ww'er. But I'm going to watch again for that
episode, and start taking bets on the under/over price of a Festool SCMS....
Mark

"mark" wrote in message
...



Although I can afford a few of those nice Festool toys, I really can't
justify the price for a casual ww'er. But I'm going to watch again for
that episode, and start taking bets on the under/over price of a Festool
SCMS.... Mark


Yeah, I can afford the Festool line also but the SCMS probably would not
find itself in my shop as I have a 12" Delta CMS that I quit using in the
shop about 7 years ago. Once I upgraded to a cabinet saw I literally quit
using the CMS. If I have an outside job I pull the CMS out but that does
not happen very often. It has been about a year since I have used it. IIRC
I read an article by one of the WW magazines and a group visited the Festool
factory and the saw was going to be under but closer to $1k than most any
other brand. It did have some rather unique pluses that would set it apart.
Here is the one I read about earlier.

http://www.festool.co.uk/artikel/art...ten.cfm?id=280

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:37:34 GMT, "Leon" wrote:


"mark" wrote in message
.. .



Although I can afford a few of those nice Festool toys, I really can't
justify the price for a casual ww'er. But I'm going to watch again for
that episode, and start taking bets on the under/over price of a Festool
SCMS.... Mark


Yeah, I can afford the Festool line also but the SCMS probably would not
find itself in my shop as I have a 12" Delta CMS that I quit using in the
shop about 7 years ago. Once I upgraded to a cabinet saw I literally quit
using the CMS. If I have an outside job I pull the CMS out but that does
not happen very often. It has been about a year since I have used it. IIRC
I read an article by one of the WW magazines and a group visited the Festool
factory and the saw was going to be under but closer to $1k than most any
other brand.

WOW.. I'm glad I'm an amateur!
My TS and band saw combined were about $1,000 and I thought that $200 on sale
for the Craftsman CSM was a bit high....

Then again, I just paid $2,500 for a lathe that I didn't really need... ;~]


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"mac davis" wrote in message
...

WOW.. I'm glad I'm an amateur!
My TS and band saw combined were about $1,000 and I thought that $200 on
sale
for the Craftsman CSM was a bit high....

Then again, I just paid $2,500 for a lathe that I didn't really need...
;~]


LOL, It's all in what fills the bill.

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:37:34 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

Then again, I just paid $2,500 for a lathe that I didn't really need...
;~]


mac



Heheh - now thats a boat floater!

Leon took a can of maroon spray paint on March 23, 2008 04:02 pm and wrote
the following:

Often it has been discussed how to best collect dust created by a SCMS or
CMS. The answer has almost always been, it cannot be done with great
results. Many have shown devised setups that seem to work well but is it
also reported that regardless of how well these modifications work there
is
still a pretty good mess to clean up. On top of that, the collector is
most often stationary or part of a stationary stand.
Changing direction for a bit here it has often been mentioned the
seemingly excessive expense of certain brand tools and how the expense
would prevent a
person from ever considering that brand. As true with anything the
initial
cost of purchasing a tool will always be out of someone's price range.
At one time PC products were a stretch for me, fortunately I have over
come that obstacle.
Back on topic, I was watching "Ask" This Old House today and noticed Tommy
using a new tool. In recent months Tommy has been using a lot of new
tools
and not too coincidentally they are of the same brand. Is he or Ask TOH
using a new sponsor? I have not seen credits going to this company nor
does
a search of this company on the "Ask" TOH web site turn up any results.
Of all the wood working shows and talented professionals on these type
shows I have never heard any discouraging words that would indicate that
he does not carry the respect of most any wood worker.
A viewer asked "Ask" TOH to help him out with crown moldings in his
kitchen. The homeowner had been able to do most every thing himself but
the crown
moldings in a seemingly complicated area had him baffled. Tommy stepped
in and showed how to cut crown molding for irregular angled corners with a
SCMS. No coping, all cuts were done on the SCMS, right there inside the
house. It took me a few minutes to realize that there was not a cloud of
saw dust in side the homeowners house. For that matter I backed the video
up and watched the cuts being made and again did not notice any saw dust
escaping. Then I saw a black hose with green stripes in it. Hum the
mostly
black SCMS had a few green spots on it as well. Backing up again and
forwarding frame by frame revealed the Festool name on the SCMS motor
housing. The saw is not available for sale in the US yet so I would be
sure that the saw was probably donated but it was certainly not promoted
in the
show or web site. Surely this is going to be another expensive product
from Festool and many are not going to be able to justify the price of
this
machine. For those that make a living using their wood working tools I
can see how this saw would be a big benefit when working inside a
customers home and not having to set up shop in the rain or snow so many
yards away from
the project. Imagine not having to put up dust screens or go in and out
side the home time after time to saw or sand pieces on the project.
Imagine not tracking saw dust all over the house on the way outside to
make another
cut. Imagine this 2 hour crown molding job only taking 20 minutes because
you spend your time working and not cleaning up, walking in and out side
time after time for a 10 second cut.

Now, imagine your educated customers asking, do you use Festool?

No

Next.....

--
Lits Slut #9
Life would be so much easier if we could just look at the source code.

"FrozenNorth" wrote in message
...
Leon took a can of maroon spray paint on March 23, 2008 04:02 pm and wrote
the following:

Often it has been discussed how to best collect dust created by a SCMS or
CMS. The answer has almost always been, it cannot be done with great
results. Many have shown devised setups that seem to work well but is it
also reported that regardless of how well these modifications work there
is
still a pretty good mess to clean up. On top of that, the collector is
most often stationary or part of a stationary stand.
Changing direction for a bit here it has often been mentioned the
seemingly excessive expense of certain brand tools and how the expense
would prevent a
person from ever considering that brand. As true with anything the
initial
cost of purchasing a tool will always be out of someone's price range.
At one time PC products were a stretch for me, fortunately I have over
come that obstacle.
Back on topic, I was watching "Ask" This Old House today and noticed
Tommy
using a new tool. In recent months Tommy has been using a lot of new
tools
and not too coincidentally they are of the same brand. Is he or Ask TOH
using a new sponsor? I have not seen credits going to this company nor
does
a search of this company on the "Ask" TOH web site turn up any results.
Of all the wood working shows and talented professionals on these type
shows I have never heard any discouraging words that would indicate that
he does not carry the respect of most any wood worker.
A viewer asked "Ask" TOH to help him out with crown moldings in his
kitchen. The homeowner had been able to do most every thing himself but
the crown
moldings in a seemingly complicated area had him baffled. Tommy stepped
in and showed how to cut crown molding for irregular angled corners with
a
SCMS. No coping, all cuts were done on the SCMS, right there inside the
house. It took me a few minutes to realize that there was not a cloud
of
saw dust in side the homeowners house. For that matter I backed the
video
up and watched the cuts being made and again did not notice any saw dust
escaping. Then I saw a black hose with green stripes in it. Hum the
mostly
black SCMS had a few green spots on it as well. Backing up again and
forwarding frame by frame revealed the Festool name on the SCMS motor
housing. The saw is not available for sale in the US yet so I would be
sure that the saw was probably donated but it was certainly not promoted
in the
show or web site. Surely this is going to be another expensive product
from Festool and many are not going to be able to justify the price of
this
machine. For those that make a living using their wood working tools I
can see how this saw would be a big benefit when working inside a
customers home and not having to set up shop in the rain or snow so many
yards away from
the project. Imagine not having to put up dust screens or go in and out
side the home time after time to saw or sand pieces on the project.
Imagine not tracking saw dust all over the house on the way outside to
make another
cut. Imagine this 2 hour crown molding job only taking 20 minutes
because
you spend your time working and not cleaning up, walking in and out side
time after time for a 10 second cut.

Now, imagine your educated customers asking, do you use Festool?

No

Next.....

--
Lits Slut #9
Life would be so much easier if we could just look at the source code.
Just curious, does that mean if someone doesn't use Festool to make his
living, a customer should keep on looking?

mark took a can of maroon spray paint on March 23, 2008 04:55 pm and wrote
the following:


"FrozenNorth" wrote in message
...
Leon took a can of maroon spray paint on March 23, 2008 04:02 pm and
wrote the following:

Often it has been discussed how to best collect dust created by a SCMS
or
CMS. The answer has almost always been, it cannot be done with great
results. Many have shown devised setups that seem to work well but is
it
also reported that regardless of how well these modifications work
there is
still a pretty good mess to clean up. On top of that, the collector is
most often stationary or part of a stationary stand.
Changing direction for a bit here it has often been mentioned the
seemingly excessive expense of certain brand tools and how the expense
would prevent a
person from ever considering that brand. As true with anything the
initial
cost of purchasing a tool will always be out of someone's price range.
At one time PC products were a stretch for me, fortunately I have over
come that obstacle.
Back on topic, I was watching "Ask" This Old House today and noticed
Tommy
using a new tool. In recent months Tommy has been using a lot of new
tools
and not too coincidentally they are of the same brand. Is he or Ask TOH
using a new sponsor? I have not seen credits going to this company nor
does
a search of this company on the "Ask" TOH web site turn up any results.
Of all the wood working shows and talented professionals on these type
shows I have never heard any discouraging words that would indicate that
he does not carry the respect of most any wood worker.
A viewer asked "Ask" TOH to help him out with crown moldings in his
kitchen. The homeowner had been able to do most every thing himself but
the crown
moldings in a seemingly complicated area had him baffled. Tommy stepped
in and showed how to cut crown molding for irregular angled corners with
a
SCMS. No coping, all cuts were done on the SCMS, right there inside the
house. It took me a few minutes to realize that there was not a cloud
of
saw dust in side the homeowners house. For that matter I backed the
video
up and watched the cuts being made and again did not notice any saw dust
escaping. Then I saw a black hose with green stripes in it. Hum the
mostly
black SCMS had a few green spots on it as well. Backing up again and
forwarding frame by frame revealed the Festool name on the SCMS motor
housing. The saw is not available for sale in the US yet so I would be
sure that the saw was probably donated but it was certainly not promoted
in the
show or web site. Surely this is going to be another expensive product
from Festool and many are not going to be able to justify the price of
this
machine. For those that make a living using their wood working tools I
can see how this saw would be a big benefit when working inside a
customers home and not having to set up shop in the rain or snow so many
yards away from
the project. Imagine not having to put up dust screens or go in and out
side the home time after time to saw or sand pieces on the project.
Imagine not tracking saw dust all over the house on the way outside to
make another
cut. Imagine this 2 hour crown molding job only taking 20 minutes
because
you spend your time working and not cleaning up, walking in and out side
time after time for a 10 second cut.

Now, imagine your educated customers asking, do you use Festool?

No

Next.....


Just curious, does that mean if someone doesn't use Festool to make his
living, a customer should keep on looking?

If savings can be passed on to the customer...
--
Lits Slut #9
Life would be so much easier if we could just look at the source code.

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:27:18 GMT, FrozenNorth wrote:

snip

Just curious, does that mean if someone doesn't use Festool to make his
living, a customer should keep on looking?

If savings can be passed on to the customer...

If savings can be passed on, will the customer pay more because you use good
quality/expensive tools?

My guess is the customer doesn't care if you use a million dollars worth of
tools or you use a sharp stick and a rock, as long as the end result and price
are what they want..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"mac davis" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:27:18 GMT, FrozenNorth
wrote:

snip

Just curious, does that mean if someone doesn't use Festool to make his
living, a customer should keep on looking?

If savings can be passed on to the customer...

If savings can be passed on, will the customer pay more because you use
good
quality/expensive tools?

My guess is the customer doesn't care if you use a million dollars worth
of
tools or you use a sharp stick and a rock, as long as the end result and
price
are what they want..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing
What is your opinion if a contractor shows up with a load of Festools? Is
he a good craftsman, or is he relying on his tools to make up for a lack of
skills??? IMO, at least someone who invests that much money into his
livelihood, probably isn't a fly-by-night
rip-off artist. But some of my friends also think this is just the same as
if he were to drive up in a new Mercedes. Maybe a little bit of a
showboat.....

Was this the saw?
http://www.festool.net/mediandoweb/i...63&AKTIVPROD=1
Seems that it is available in Germany.
Click on the magnifier.


Leon wrote:
Often it has been discussed how to best collect dust created by a SCMS or
CMS. The answer has almost always been, it cannot be done with great
results. Many have shown devised setups that seem to work well but is it
also reported that regardless of how well these modifications work there is
still a pretty good mess to clean up. On top of that, the collector is most
often stationary or part of a stationary stand.
Changing direction for a bit here it has often been mentioned the seemingly
excessive expense of certain brand tools and how the expense would prevent a
person from ever considering that brand. As true with anything the initial
cost of purchasing a tool will always be out of someone's price range. At
one time PC products were a stretch for me, fortunately I have over come
that obstacle.
Back on topic, I was watching "Ask" This Old House today and noticed Tommy
using a new tool. In recent months Tommy has been using a lot of new tools
and not too coincidentally they are of the same brand. Is he or Ask TOH
using a new sponsor? I have not seen credits going to this company nor does
a search of this company on the "Ask" TOH web site turn up any results. Of
all the wood working shows and talented professionals on these type shows I
have never heard any discouraging words that would indicate that he does not
carry the respect of most any wood worker.
A viewer asked "Ask" TOH to help him out with crown moldings in his kitchen.
The homeowner had been able to do most every thing himself but the crown
moldings in a seemingly complicated area had him baffled. Tommy stepped in
and showed how to cut crown molding for irregular angled corners with a
SCMS. No coping, all cuts were done on the SCMS, right there inside the
house. It took me a few minutes to realize that there was not a cloud of
saw dust in side the homeowners house. For that matter I backed the video
up and watched the cuts being made and again did not notice any saw dust
escaping. Then I saw a black hose with green stripes in it. Hum the mostly
black SCMS had a few green spots on it as well. Backing up again and
forwarding frame by frame revealed the Festool name on the SCMS motor
housing. The saw is not available for sale in the US yet so I would be sure
that the saw was probably donated but it was certainly not promoted in the
show or web site. Surely this is going to be another expensive product from
Festool and many are not going to be able to justify the price of this
machine. For those that make a living using their wood working tools I can
see how this saw would be a big benefit when working inside a customers home
and not having to set up shop in the rain or snow so many yards away from
the project. Imagine not having to put up dust screens or go in and out
side the home time after time to saw or sand pieces on the project. Imagine
not tracking saw dust all over the house on the way outside to make another
cut. Imagine this 2 hour crown molding job only taking 20 minutes because
you spend your time working and not cleaning up, walking in and out side
time after time for a 10 second cut.

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...
Was this the saw?
http://www.festool.net/mediandoweb/i...63&AKTIVPROD=1
Seems that it is available in Germany.
Click on the magnifier.


That is probably it however the view I always saw was from the right side of
the saw.

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...
Was this the saw?
http://www.festool.net/mediandoweb/i...63&AKTIVPROD=1
Seems that it is available in Germany.
Click on the magnifier.


A little better view

http://www.festool.co.uk/artikel/art...ten.cfm?id=280

"Leon" wrote in message
. net...

"tiredofspam" nospam.nospam.com wrote in message
...
Was this the saw?
http://www.festool.net/mediandoweb/i...63&AKTIVPROD=1
Seems that it is available in Germany.
Click on the magnifier.


A little better view

http://www.festool.co.uk/artikel/art...ten.cfm?id=280


Ahh thats the saw I had. Used it for quite some time, made some wonderful
stuff with it.












O, and then I woke up.

Sigh.

M

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 15:02:18 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:

Often it has been discussed how to best collect dust created by a SCMS or
CMS. The answer has almost always been, it cannot be done with great
results.

Honestly I think all the manufacturers to this point just stick a hole
for a vacuum at the top of the guard and didn't put one iota into
actually making it work. On my Bosch it can work half decent on thick
material, 2x4s and the like. Anything thinner and I can see the dust
go shooting right by the sides of the guard. If it just had more of a
scoop to it at the bottom it would work. That's what it looks like to
me on the Festool. It's also way WAY too constricted on the Bosch, it
sounds like a freight train when I turn on the vac. So I don't think
this is any particularly monumental invention, just someone spent more
than 5 minutes on the dust collection.

And yes, Tommy can't go 5 minutes without breaking out a Festool toy.
It's the only time he actually gets his hands dirty anymore. I know
PBS has some rules about advertising so you aren't going to hear
anything actually spoken about it, but gone are the days when they
taped over all the manufacturers names.


-Leuf

"Leuf" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 15:02:18 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


And yes, Tommy can't go 5 minutes without breaking out a Festool toy.
It's the only time he actually gets his hands dirty anymore. I know
PBS has some rules about advertising so you aren't going to hear
anything actually spoken about it, but gone are the days when they
taped over all the manufacturers names.


I am not sure what the restrictions on PBS would be as Delta and Porter
Cable, Miniwax, Vermont American, GMC etc. open TOH and NYW always open the
show in Houston.
Additionally PBS or not, the This Old House web site does not mention
Festool but mentions Craftsman and other brand tools.

IIRC the restrictions that got Bob in trouble was him being paid for ads out
side of TOH, working for Sears.

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:26:43 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"Leuf" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 15:02:18 -0500, "Leon"
wrote:


And yes, Tommy can't go 5 minutes without breaking out a Festool toy.
It's the only time he actually gets his hands dirty anymore. I know
PBS has some rules about advertising so you aren't going to hear
anything actually spoken about it, but gone are the days when they
taped over all the manufacturers names.


I am not sure what the restrictions on PBS would be as Delta and Porter
Cable, Miniwax, Vermont American, GMC etc. open TOH and NYW always open the
show in Houston.
Additionally PBS or not, the This Old House web site does not mention
Festool but mentions Craftsman and other brand tools.

IIRC the restrictions that got Bob in trouble was him being paid for ads out
side of TOH, working for Sears.

They have time for ads at the beginning and end and that is all they
are allowed, they can't do anything in the actual program is my
understanding. When Norm has a project using specific hardware note
he doesn't tell you where to get it, but it's on the plans. They
introduced the Sawstop contractor saw version on Ask TOS, but I don't
think they ever said Sawstop.

So Festool are being sneaky about it. And by not also having ads it
looks more like hey, Tommy is just using Festool because it's so
awesome.


-Leuf

"Leuf" wrote in message
...
They have time for ads at the beginning and end and that is all they
are allowed, they can't do anything in the actual program is my
understanding. When Norm has a project using specific hardware note
he doesn't tell you where to get it, but it's on the plans. They
introduced the Sawstop contractor saw version on Ask TOS, but I don't
think they ever said Sawstop.

You have a point there.



So Festool are being sneaky about it. And by not also having ads it
looks more like hey, Tommy is just using Festool because it's so
awesome.


But, that is a true statement.

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:45:38 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


But, that is a true statement.

And as soon as the Festool truck pulls up with my free samples of one
of each from the catalog I will agree with you.

Any minute now, I'm sure.

I'd settle for them naming one of their bazillion lines of ROS papers
with cutesy names after me.


-Leuf

I noticed the saw too .. but it seemed underpowered and bogged down when
cutting.. That's what caught my attention..

"Leon" wrote in message
...
Often it has been discussed how to best collect dust created by a SCMS or
CMS. The answer has almost always been, it cannot be done with great
results. Many have shown devised setups that seem to work well but is it
also reported that regardless of how well these modifications work there
is still a pretty good mess to clean up. On top of that, the collector is
most often stationary or part of a stationary stand.
Changing direction for a bit here it has often been mentioned the
seemingly excessive expense of certain brand tools and how the expense
would prevent a person from ever considering that brand. As true with
anything the initial cost of purchasing a tool will always be out of
someone's price range. At one time PC products were a stretch for me,
fortunately I have over come that obstacle.
Back on topic, I was watching "Ask" This Old House today and noticed Tommy
using a new tool. In recent months Tommy has been using a lot of new
tools and not too coincidentally they are of the same brand. Is he or Ask
TOH using a new sponsor? I have not seen credits going to this company
nor does a search of this company on the "Ask" TOH web site turn up any
results. Of all the wood working shows and talented professionals on
these type shows I have never heard any discouraging words that would
indicate that he does not carry the respect of most any wood worker.
A viewer asked "Ask" TOH to help him out with crown moldings in his
kitchen. The homeowner had been able to do most every thing himself but
the crown moldings in a seemingly complicated area had him baffled. Tommy
stepped in and showed how to cut crown molding for irregular angled
corners with a SCMS. No coping, all cuts were done on the SCMS, right
there inside the house. It took me a few minutes to realize that there
was not a cloud of saw dust in side the homeowners house. For that matter
I backed the video up and watched the cuts being made and again did not
notice any saw dust escaping. Then I saw a black hose with green stripes
in it. Hum the mostly black SCMS had a few green spots on it as well.
Backing up again and forwarding frame by frame revealed the Festool name
on the SCMS motor housing. The saw is not available for sale in the US
yet so I would be sure that the saw was probably donated but it was
certainly not promoted in the show or web site. Surely this is going to
be another expensive product from Festool and many are not going to be
able to justify the price of this machine. For those that make a living
using their wood working tools I can see how this saw would be a big
benefit when working inside a customers home and not having to set up shop
in the rain or snow so many yards away from the project. Imagine not
having to put up dust screens or go in and out side the home time after
time to saw or sand pieces on the project. Imagine not tracking saw dust
all over the house on the way outside to make another cut. Imagine this 2
hour crown molding job only taking 20 minutes because you spend your time
working and not cleaning up, walking in and out side time after time for a
10 second cut.

"Jim Hall" wrote in message
...
I noticed the saw too .. but it seemed underpowered and bogged down when
cutting.. That's what caught my attention..


The saw is variable speed and perhaps it was set too slow. Either way I
provided a link to several video's of the saw in use. One video appears to
be cutting a 3x10, full depth of the blade.

Here it is, and interactive video with sever choices of tools to llok at.

http://www.festool.de/ipt_domino/

Choose english and click the green arrows on the bottom right side of the
display and then pick the tool.

"Leon" wrote in message
Choose english and click the green arrows on the bottom right side of the
display and then pick the tool.

It's retailing for something like $1600. It would have to be capable of a
few more things than unparalleled dust collection for me to consider it and
I ENJOY spending my money on above quality tools. Thinking of the Domino,
now there's a tool that is decently unique in some ways. I'm wondering
what's unique about the Kapex KS 120? It sure can't be just dust extraction.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
Choose english and click the green arrows on the bottom right side of the
display and then pick the tool.

It's retailing for something like $1600. It would have to be capable of a
few more things than unparalleled dust collection for me to consider it
and
I ENJOY spending my money on above quality tools. Thinking of the Domino,
now there's a tool that is decently unique in some ways. I'm wondering
what's unique about the Kapex KS 120? It sure can't be just dust
extraction.



$1600 where did you get that info? Although after looking at the videos I
could see how it would be in that range considering the price comparisons to
other tools. I was thinking I had read that it would be under $1000.

A few cool items on the video, dual laser, a LARGE bevel gauge with coarse
bevel adjustment and micro twist handle to get the exact bevel setting,
variable speed, depth stop for cutting groves, removable angle finder tool
to measure an angle and then bring back to the saw for adjustments, easy
blade changes, crown molding stops, adjustable fences, tool storage, cord
storage.

Definitely a cool saw. A wider arbor and ability to use dado blades for
"precision grooving" in the next generation would be good. Like the
Tormek.. Excessive profits leads to ruiness competition.. and everybody
and the bother are making knock offs of that one now. Eventually will
happen with Festool, I would imagine.. Especially if the Euro continues to
cost a buck and half American.



"Leon" wrote in message
et...

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
Choose english and click the green arrows on the bottom right side of
the
display and then pick the tool.

It's retailing for something like $1600. It would have to be capable of a
few more things than unparalleled dust collection for me to consider it
and
I ENJOY spending my money on above quality tools. Thinking of the Domino,
now there's a tool that is decently unique in some ways. I'm wondering
what's unique about the Kapex KS 120? It sure can't be just dust
extraction.



$1600 where did you get that info? Although after looking at the videos I
could see how it would be in that range considering the price comparisons
to other tools. I was thinking I had read that it would be under $1000.

A few cool items on the video, dual laser, a LARGE bevel gauge with coarse
bevel adjustment and micro twist handle to get the exact bevel setting,
variable speed, depth stop for cutting groves, removable angle finder tool
to measure an angle and then bring back to the saw for adjustments, easy
blade changes, crown molding stops, adjustable fences, tool storage, cord
storage.

"Jim Hall" wrote in message
It's retailing for something like $1600. It would have to be capable of
a
what's unique about the Kapex KS 120? It sure can't be just dust

$1600 where did you get that info? Although after looking at the videos
I
could see how it would be in that range considering the price
comparisons
to other tools. I was thinking I had read that it would be under $1000.

Do a search for the model name. Every link I came across was UK based and
had the saw listing for about £800 English Pounds. That's $1600 Canadian and
almost the same in US funds.

On Mar 23, 8:05*pm, "Upscale" wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message
Choose english and click the green arrows on the bottom right side of the
display and then pick the tool.

It's retailing for something like $1600. It would have to be capable of a
few more things than unparalleled dust collection for me to consider it and
I ENJOY spending my money on above quality tools. Thinking of the Domino,
now there's a tool that is decently unique in some ways. I'm wondering
what's unique about the Kapex KS 120? It sure can't be just dust extraction.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Mar 23, 8:05 pm, "Upscale" wrote:


The tool is likely very heavy. Maybe because of the 10,000 pound chain
attached to the cement block guarded by a pair of 100 pound
dobermans..... or my lunch bucket.
That saw just yells : "STEAL MEEEE!!!!"


Doesn't it though. BTY I saw a Festool portable TS on the UK web site. ;~)

On Mar 23, 6:10 pm, Robatoy wrote:

The tool is likely very heavy. Maybe because of the 10,000 pound chain
attached to the cement block guarded by a pair of 100 pound
dobermans..... or my lunch bucket.
That saw just yells : "STEAL MEEEE!!!!"

For shop workers, that isn't much of a consideration.

For those who have not worked on site for a few weeks at a time, you
cannot imagine how hard it is to keep an eye on everything, everybody,
and all they are doing on a constant basis.

We have had tools stolen from job sites I have worked on (and on mine)
where the thieves weren't even working on the project. Driving by,
they saw "targets of opportunity" and took a chance.

Sometimes they case the job by asking if anyone is hiring. Sometimes
they act like they are selling something and indeed it may be
something they just stole somewhere else. And sometimes, they just
drive by and get lucky.

I can't imagine what it would be like to walk around a corner to nail
up piece of crown, be intercepted by the client that has to ask you a
quick question about something on the other side of the project, and
return a few short minutes later to an empty tool stand where your
$1500 Festool (or any other brand) saw used to sit.

I keep a hardened chain with a security combination lock in the truck
at all times, but you can't lock up everything.

Robert
(whose ass is still smarting from the loss of his 4 hp compressor,
taken from a secured warehouse after having the chain cut in order to
remove it during business hours)

wrote:

We have had tools stolen from job sites I have worked on (and on mine)
where the thieves weren't even working on the project.

Still remember my dad telling me about one of his lodge brothers who worked
construction and drove a Model "A" roadster with the top down during the
summer.

This was in the 30's, during the depression, when they were building the
grandstand at the county fairgrounds.

The guy would park in the track infield and leave his tools in plain sight.

Finally somebody decided to gather some of those tools.

Touched the car and got knocked on his ass by 20,000 volts.

Seems the guy knew a little bit about electricity.

He had hooked up an ignition coil, charged by the battery, and discharged
when somebody touched the frame completing the circuit to ground.

As far as I know, never did have anything stolen.

Lew

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:05:16 -0500, "Upscale" wrote:


"Leon" wrote in message
Choose english and click the green arrows on the bottom right side of the
display and then pick the tool.

It's retailing for something like $1600. It would have to be capable of a
few more things than unparalleled dust collection for me to consider it and
I ENJOY spending my money on above quality tools.
snip

No ****! Like draw the plans, present them to the client and drive me home...
Ya know, it may very well be 8 times better than the $200 ones, but I don't have
8 times the skill level to need it..



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I had to cut a large archway to connect the new annex of my wife's
bookstore (she was able to rent the next-door space to almost double the
store's floor space). The side on the new space was no sweat to excavate
because it was unoccupied so I did all that work, paint, etc and tidied
up before cutting through the from the bookstore side.

My friend, loyal bookstore customer and boat-builder, Al, brought his
Festool cart full of tools and we managed to cut through (the wall was
plywood) *from the bookstore side* without covering any bookshelves at
all. No tarps. No dust. A bit of shop-vacuuming and we were cleaned up.
I was amazed at how well it went. And all the Festool guides and gizmos
really did their jobs.

Just my limited experience with how much time and effort Festool saved
us on this one demanding job.


Leon wrote:
Backing up again and
forwarding frame by frame revealed the Festool name on the SCMS motor
housing. The saw is not available for sale in the US yet so I would be sure
that the saw was probably donated but it was certainly not promoted in the
show or web site. Surely this is going to be another expensive product from
Festool and many are not going to be able to justify the price of this
machine. For those that make a living using their wood working tools I can
see how this saw would be a big benefit when working inside a customers home
and not having to set up shop in the rain or snow so many yards away from
the project. Imagine not having to put up dust screens or go in and out
side the home time after time to saw or sand pieces on the project. Imagine
not tracking saw dust all over the house on the way outside to make another
cut. Imagine this 2 hour crown molding job only taking 20 minutes because
you spend your time working and not cleaning up, walking in and out side
time after time for a 10 second cut.





--
Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS www.hocktools.com

"Ron Hock" wrote in message
. ..
I had to cut a large archway to connect the new annex of my wife's
bookstore (she was able to rent the next-door space to almost double the
store's floor space). The side on the new space was no sweat to excavate
because it was unoccupied so I did all that work, paint, etc and tidied up
before cutting through the from the bookstore side.

My friend, loyal bookstore customer and boat-builder, Al, brought his
Festool cart full of tools and we managed to cut through (the wall was
plywood) *from the bookstore side* without covering any bookshelves at
all. No tarps. No dust. A bit of shop-vacuuming and we were cleaned up. I
was amazed at how well it went. And all the Festool guides and gizmos
really did their jobs.

Just my limited experience with how much time and effort Festool saved us
on this one demanding job.


About 1 year ago I had a job to add trim in a customers kitchen. The
Festool vac and mitersaw would have been great in that application. I
probably custom fitted 50 pieces of trim in that kitchen and with each piece
it meant a trip out to the driveway. If I did that every day the $1600
would be justified.

On Mar 24, 12:45 pm, "Leon" wrote:

I probably custom fitted 50 pieces of trim in that kitchen and with each piece
it meant a trip out to the driveway. If I did that every day the $1600
would be justified.

I think you summed it all up with that. No one doubts that the
quality of the Festool implements are there, but the question is if
one will get the value out of them considering their prices.

When I do a remodel, the house is pretty well torn up and we have dust
barriers in place, and my portable dust collector running full time in
the room we are doing the most damage to. My MS saw is as close as I
can get it in the close quarters of a finished house, which may
actually mean a patio or deck.

If the house isn't finished or occupied, who cares where the dust
goes? After all, the project will be swept as needed and
professionally cleaned at the end anyway.

I can see it being very practical if used like you are saying or as in
Ron's example and in several other instances. In that respect, I am
sure that there will be those that find the Festool saw
indispensable. But for the rest of us.... guess we'll get to read
about it here.

Robert

On Mar 24, 3:21*pm, "
wrote:

There are several categories of tool purchase.

1) That'll do for this project.

2) I'll be using this often enough to justify the expense.

3) No tool, I know of, will do the job like this one does.

4 ) I cannot do this job without this tool.

5) I am soo busy doing what I do, that the extra $ 1000.00 is
meaningless in the scope of things.

6) ALL OF THE ABOVE

On Mar 24, 6:58 pm, Robatoy wrote:

6) ALL OF THE ABOVE

LMAO ... big time!

Can you imagine the holy grail of all tools, one so perfect that it
actually hit #6?

Spending big money on big tools without the questions.

I think your list accurately reflects today's buying guide. But
remember when you just went out and bought the BEST tools you could
afford, knowing they would perform well and last for years?

I haven't used that criteria for years. Now I look for the best tool,
then see how the numbers work for the type of work it will be doing.

Robert