I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a rollaway
table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the sliding
feature or not.......Any help will be appreciated

In a nutshell, crosscuts a greater width than a non sliding miter saw ..
usually up to about 12", depending upon blade size.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03

"PeterM" wrote in message
I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a rollaway
table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the sliding
feature or not.......Any help will be appreciated

Thanks Swingman........It has a 12" saw blade. It will not move as I'm
cutting right? I just pull it out before I cut, and that then it will
let me cut like the 12". Is that correct? Don't laugh, I'm not
experienced with this. How does the price sound?.....Peter

"Swingman" wrote in message
news.com...
In a nutshell, crosscuts a greater width than a non sliding miter saw
...
usually up to about 12", depending upon blade size.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03

"PeterM" wrote in message
I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a
rollaway
table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the
sliding
feature or not.......Any help will be appreciated

PeterM wrote:

Thanks Swingman........It has a 12" saw blade. It will not move as I'm
cutting right? I just pull it out before I cut, and that then it will
let me cut like the 12". Is that correct? Don't laugh, I'm not
experienced with this. How does the price sound?.....Peter

You start the cut with the head pushed to the back of the saw and pull the
head through the cut.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

Thanks Nova, wow, I had no idea that this was the way to do it. Now I
know............ Can you tell me if you think the price is OK......Peter

"Nova" wrote in message
...
PeterM wrote:

Thanks Swingman........It has a 12" saw blade. It will not move as
I'm
cutting right? I just pull it out before I cut, and that then it
will
let me cut like the 12". Is that correct? Don't laugh, I'm not
experienced with this. How does the price sound?.....Peter

You start the cut with the head pushed to the back of the saw and pull
the
head through the cut.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

PeterM wrote:

Thanks Nova, wow, I had no idea that this was the way to do it. Now I
know............ Can you tell me if you think the price is OK......Peter

The current price for a new DeWalt DW708 12" sliding miter saw is $600
(without the stand). Provided there is nothing wrong with the saw, $350
with a stand is a VERY good price. The DW708 is an excellent miter saw.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

Nova wrote:

You start the cut with the head pushed to the back of the saw and
pull the head through the cut.

I thought it was the other way around. Pull all the way out, put into the
wood, push forward. It's based not on personal experience but something I
read somewhere about a sliding miter being safer than a radial arm saw.

-- Mark

Mark,

for safety reasons, I suggest you never make a cut by 'pushing' the slider.
The blade can (and will) lift the leading edge of the wood off the saw plate
unless it is clamped down, the probable result being a kickback as the blade
jams in the wood. It will also give much greater tearout as the blade is
egressing into the air instead of down into the table.

By pulling the saw, the blade pushes the wood down into the table and fence
at the same time, assisting with a stable, safe, cut.

regards,

Greg

"Mark Jerde" wrote in message
...
Nova wrote:

You start the cut with the head pushed to the back of the saw and
pull the head through the cut.

I thought it was the other way around. Pull all the way out, put into the
wood, push forward. It's based not on personal experience but something I
read somewhere about a sliding miter being safer than a radial arm saw.

-- Mark

actually you're supposed to pull the head out before beginning the cut, and
push the blade as you make the cut. on a radial arm saw you pull it through
as you make the cut. If you pull the blade through the cut on a sliding
miter saw, you're asking for the workpiece to be thrown at you. On a SCMS
the blade is spinning upwards closest to the operator, whereas on a RAS it
is spinning downwards at this point. It's a big difference and shouldn't be
mixed up.


"Nova" wrote in message
...
PeterM wrote:

Thanks Swingman........It has a 12" saw blade. It will not move as I'm
cutting right? I just pull it out before I cut, and that then it will
let me cut like the 12". Is that correct? Don't laugh, I'm not
experienced with this. How does the price sound?.....Peter

You start the cut with the head pushed to the back of the saw and pull the
head through the cut.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

Mike in Mystic wrote...
On a SCMS
the blade is spinning upwards closest to the operator

Whaaat??! Not on mine, it doesn't, nor on any I've ever seen. I wouldn't
buy a miter saw that kicked the dust straight from the kerf into my
face... BTW, I have a DW708. What do you have?

Jim

O

You start the cut with the head pushed to the back of the saw and pull the
head through the cut.

you have that backwards you start with the head pulled out drop it into the wood
and push backwards. the other way is a radial arm saw.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

it's not as accurate for precision cuts as a non slider. the blade and
motor will will have some lateral slop, in relation to the wood and
table. I quit using my non-slider for super precise cross-cuts. I made
a sled and use the TS for accurate cross-cuts. Like to within .005 or
better.

Note: The published maximum width you can cut a flat board on a non
slider can be exceeded. Just put a board under your wide work piece;
that will place the workplace at a wider section of the blade. Look at
a miter saw to visualize this.


dave

PeterM wrote:

I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a rollaway
table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the sliding
feature or not.......Any help will be appreciated

Now I'm confused, are you saying the sliding one is not as accurate?
Then I won't buy it.......Peter

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...
it's not as accurate for precision cuts as a non slider. the blade
and
motor will will have some lateral slop, in relation to the wood and
table. I quit using my non-slider for super precise cross-cuts. I
made
a sled and use the TS for accurate cross-cuts. Like to within .005 or
better.

Note: The published maximum width you can cut a flat board on a non
slider can be exceeded. Just put a board under your wide work piece;
that will place the workplace at a wider section of the blade. Look
at
a miter saw to visualize this.


dave

PeterM wrote:

I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a
rollaway
table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the
sliding
feature or not.......Any help will be appreciated

PeterM wrote:

Now I'm confused, are you saying the sliding one is not as accurate?
Then I won't buy it.......Peter

You got to keep in mind Dave's the type of guy that forgets little details,
like remembering to put bottoms in the drawers he makes.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

You guys are so great here,everybody helps. I'm a little dumb it
doesn't matter to you guys, you still help. Try this in any Adobe News
Group, and you think you landed in a pot of conceded schmucks. I think
the saw is over my head honestly, but thanks for all the wonderful
responses. The saw is here in Sacramento, in case someone is interested,
I will pass..........Peter

"Nova" wrote in message
...
PeterM wrote:

Now I'm confused, are you saying the sliding one is not as accurate?
Then I won't buy it.......Peter

You got to keep in mind Dave's the type of guy that forgets little
details,
like remembering to put bottoms in the drawers he makes.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

Seems like a great deal Peter (the non-slider is $300 new without stand and
the slider is $600 according to an earlier post).

Not ever using one, I didn't realize the slider worked like a RAS with a
"pull" across the piece which has the tendency to pull it away from the
fence. Non-slider comes down on the piece and with the rotation of the blade
has a tendency to push the piece back against the fence. I had a RAS as my
main tool for years (loved it) but it was not super accurate on cross-cuts
for that reason.

"PeterM" wrote in message
...
You guys are so great here,everybody helps. I'm a little dumb it
doesn't matter to you guys, you still help. Try this in any Adobe News
Group, and you think you landed in a pot of conceded schmucks. I think
the saw is over my head honestly, but thanks for all the wonderful
responses. The saw is here in Sacramento, in case someone is interested,
I will pass..........Peter

"Nova" wrote in message
...
PeterM wrote:

Now I'm confused, are you saying the sliding one is not as accurate?
Then I won't buy it.......Peter

You got to keep in mind Dave's the type of guy that forgets little
details,
like remembering to put bottoms in the drawers he makes.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:13:31 -0800, "PeterM" wrote:

Now I'm confused, are you saying the sliding one is not as accurate?
Then I won't buy it.......Peter

Oh, for Christ's sake. Peter, the saw you are talking about is a
fantastic saw at a fantastic price. Jump on it. Some people talk
about "accuracy" around here as if they used their equipment to
machine escapements for goddamn Rolexes. Take it all with a grain of
salt. Just like most other newsgroups, this one's got it's share of
cowboys who are all hat and no cattle.

Michael

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:13:31 -0800, "PeterM" wrote:

Now I'm confused, are you saying the sliding one is not as accurate?
Then I won't buy it.......Peter

Oh, for Christ's sake. Peter, the saw you are talking about is a
fantastic saw at a fantastic price. Jump on it. Some people talk
about "accuracy" around here as if they used their equipment to
machine escapements for goddamn Rolexes. Take it all with a grain of
salt. Just like most other newsgroups, this one's got it's share of
cowboys who are all hat and no cattle.

Michael

Yeah, or buy it for me and I'll pay $20 + the shipping... g

-- Mark

In response to Peter's confusion...
Now I'm confused, are you saying the sliding one is not as accurate?
Then I won't buy it.......Peter

Michael penned this pear of wisdom...

Oh, for Christ's sake. Peter, the saw you are talking about is a
fantastic saw at a fantastic price. Jump on it. Some people talk
about "accuracy" around here as if they used their equipment to
machine escapements for goddamn Rolexes. Take it all with a grain of
salt. Just like most other newsgroups, this one's got it's share of
cowboys who are all hat and no cattle.

Michael nails it! AMEN!!!

Peter, I paid mail order retail for mine (Tool King of Denver) and was
delighted with the price $509. That was two years ago. Since then, I've
framed an entire house with it, and it's been in frequent use in my
cabinet shop ever since. It still makes perfect full-length crosscuts. I
have aligned it twice since buying it; once on receipt, and once after
moving it to a new station. It crosscuts long stock more easily and every
bit as accurately as a crosscut sled on my tablesaw, which is a Delta
Unisaw in excellent condition and alignment.

Echoing Michael, if it's not damaged, buy it!

Jim

I have the DW 12" non-slider so don't know much about the slider. But
doesn't the slider also have a blade height stop so it acts kinda like a RAS
if you want to cut rough dados? Other than that, I can imagine it also has
the drawbacks of the RAS in terms of a little more flex and a few more
adjustments to make to keep it perfectly tuned. As for the price, either
lying, got a great deal or is something wrong with it!!! I believe it
retails for over $600 new (maybe closer to $700 but I can't remember).

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...
it's not as accurate for precision cuts as a non slider. the blade and
motor will will have some lateral slop, in relation to the wood and
table. I quit using my non-slider for super precise cross-cuts. I made
a sled and use the TS for accurate cross-cuts. Like to within .005 or
better.

Note: The published maximum width you can cut a flat board on a non
slider can be exceeded. Just put a board under your wide work piece;
that will place the workplace at a wider section of the blade. Look at
a miter saw to visualize this.


dave

PeterM wrote:

I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a rollaway
table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the sliding
feature or not.......Any help will be appreciated

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...
it's not as accurate for precision cuts as a non slider. the blade and
motor will will have some lateral slop, in relation to the wood and
table. I quit using my non-slider for super precise cross-cuts. I made
a sled and use the TS for accurate cross-cuts. Like to within .005 or
better.

SNIP

Where did you get your information concerning the accuracy of the slider vs.
non-slider? Did you measure it, or simply parrot some information that you
read somewhere? I have a 12" Dewalt SCMS and a Dewalt 12" CMS and have done
a bunch of tests. When the saws are adjusted properly there is zero
difference in the accuracy of the cut.

In my opinion the biggest differences in the two saws is that the SCMS can
cut wider pieces, but it also takes a lot more room away from the wall.

Bob McBreen

as long as YOU are happy with the accuracy that's all that matters. I
don't even use my Dewalt CMS for precise cross-cuts. I use a sled. By
using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut a number of
boards to exact length and the cut is cleaner than what comes off my
Dewalt, even using an 80 tooth blade. A moving WWII gives a better cut
than the 80 Dewalt. Plus the DeWalt is thin kerf and it WILL flex when
cutting wider boards, even those that aren't very thick, and YES, even
if I go pretty slowly. Take a straight edge to a 6" board (baltic birch
comes to mind) cut on a non-slider, using a thin kerf blade, and look at
the bow in the cut. I suppose if I slow WAAAY down so that it takes
forever to get the blade through, the cut would be straight. I'm not
that patient. I'm also not forcing it; after cutting too fast, I slowed
down, figuring the cuts would be acceptable; they weren't and that day I
built a sled.

I stand by the statement that the slider is less accurate. Read up on
them. I don't really care how YOU 'feel' about yours, I've observed
them and wouldn't buy one for precision work. Would I buy one if I was
a contractor framing a house. Yeah!

dave

RWM wrote:

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
om...

it's not as accurate for precision cuts as a non slider. the blade and
motor will will have some lateral slop, in relation to the wood and
table. I quit using my non-slider for super precise cross-cuts. I made
a sled and use the TS for accurate cross-cuts. Like to within .005 or
better.

SNIP


Where did you get your information concerning the accuracy of the slider vs.
non-slider? Did you measure it, or simply parrot some information that you
read somewhere? I have a 12" Dewalt SCMS and a Dewalt 12" CMS and have done
a bunch of tests. When the saws are adjusted properly there is zero
difference in the accuracy of the cut.

In my opinion the biggest differences in the two saws is that the SCMS can
cut wider pieces, but it also takes a lot more room away from the wall.

Bob McBreen

Bay Area Dave wrote:

I stand by the statement that the slider is less accurate. Read up on
them. I don't really care how YOU 'feel' about yours, I've observed
them and wouldn't buy one for precision work. Would I buy one if I was
a contractor framing a house. Yeah!

Gee, I put together a number of 12 segment rings that went together without the
need to sand to fit. The segments were cut on a Makita LS1013 slider. I guess 24
cuts at 15 degrees each, with practically 0 degree combined error, isn't precision
work.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

"Nova" wrote in message
...
Bay Area Dave wrote:

I stand by the statement that the slider is less accurate. Read up on
them. I don't really care how YOU 'feel' about yours, I've observed
them and wouldn't buy one for precision work. Would I buy one if I was
a contractor framing a house. Yeah!

Gee, I put together a number of 12 segment rings that went together
without the
need to sand to fit. The segments were cut on a Makita LS1013 slider. I
guess 24
cuts at 15 degrees each, with practically 0 degree combined error, isn't
precision
work.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)


The results sound great to me. 12 segments at 15 degrees is a complicated
assembly.

Bob McBreen

"Nova" wrote in message
...
Bay Area Dave wrote:

I stand by the statement that the slider is less accurate. Read up on
them. I don't really care how YOU 'feel' about yours, I've observed
them and wouldn't buy one for precision work. Would I buy one if I was
a contractor framing a house. Yeah!

Gee, I put together a number of 12 segment rings that went together
without the
need to sand to fit. The segments were cut on a Makita LS1013 slider. I
guess 24
cuts at 15 degrees each, with practically 0 degree combined error, isn't
precision
work.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)


I have a Makita LS1013 also, great saw i can't imagine doing alot of
projects without it anymore. as far as accuricy goes i am amazed at how well
it does with trim work.

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
. com...
as long as YOU are happy with the accuracy that's all that matters. I
don't even use my Dewalt CMS for precise cross-cuts. I use a sled. By
using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut a number of
boards to exact length and the cut is cleaner than what comes off my
Dewalt, even using an 80 tooth blade. A moving WWII gives a better cut
than the 80 Dewalt. Plus the DeWalt is thin kerf and it WILL flex when
cutting wider boards, even those that aren't very thick, and YES, even
if I go pretty slowly. Take a straight edge to a 6" board (baltic birch
comes to mind) cut on a non-slider, using a thin kerf blade, and look at
the bow in the cut. I suppose if I slow WAAAY down so that it takes
forever to get the blade through, the cut would be straight. I'm not
that patient. I'm also not forcing it; after cutting too fast, I slowed
down, figuring the cuts would be acceptable; they weren't and that day I
built a sled.

I stand by the statement that the slider is less accurate. Read up on
them. I don't really care how YOU 'feel' about yours, I've observed
them and wouldn't buy one for precision work. Would I buy one if I was
a contractor framing a house. Yeah!


You seem to have an interesting way of non answering. The topic was sliding
miter saws vs. non-sliding miter saws, not miter saws vs. cross cut sleds on
a table saw. My question was if you had measured the accuracy difference,
or if you were parroting something that you had read. From your answer it
is pretty clear that you have read about the accuracy of sliding miter saws,
and you have measured the accuracy of the cut that you get with your
non-slider, but it sounds like you have never investigated the difference
between sliders and non-sliders. I wonder why you felt you had information
to add to the slider vs. non-slider comparison.

I also don't understand the following:

"I use a sled. By using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut
a number of boards to exact length."

Are you using a sled, the fence, or both to cross cut?

Bob McBreen

RWM wrote:

You seem to have an interesting way of non answering. The topic was
sliding miter saws vs. non-sliding miter saws, not miter saws vs.
cross cut sleds on a table saw.

With all respect (not looking to pick a fight g) the OP was concerned
about accuracy as the thread progressed. BAD's reply (though I need more
info before I accept his responses at full value) dealt with accuracy.
(Dave -- I use a 10" thin kerf almost exclusively in my TS. ISTM there may
be something else with your setup causing the discernable inaccuracy when
crosscutting. Also, not trying to pic a fight... g) Therefore I find
Dave's comments completely in the thread, though they differ from the
specifics of the original post.

IMHO... g

-- Mark

I use the fence with a 1" aux fence to set the length. when the board
is cut, it is not in contact with either fence. that would be stupid.
the aux fence is short and is placed towards the operator's end of the
main fence. slide the work piece across the sled, up against the aux
fence. move forward and then you clear the aux fence before the blade
contacts the workplace. very elegant. quick. super accurate.

what I originally mentioned in this thread (to paraphrase myself) is
that a non slider is more accurate than a slider, but not accurate
enough for my tastes, except for less demanding work.



dave

dave

RWM wrote:

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
. com...

as long as YOU are happy with the accuracy that's all that matters. I
don't even use my Dewalt CMS for precise cross-cuts. I use a sled. By
using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut a number of
boards to exact length and the cut is cleaner than what comes off my
Dewalt, even using an 80 tooth blade. A moving WWII gives a better cut
than the 80 Dewalt. Plus the DeWalt is thin kerf and it WILL flex when
cutting wider boards, even those that aren't very thick, and YES, even
if I go pretty slowly. Take a straight edge to a 6" board (baltic birch
comes to mind) cut on a non-slider, using a thin kerf blade, and look at
the bow in the cut. I suppose if I slow WAAAY down so that it takes
forever to get the blade through, the cut would be straight. I'm not
that patient. I'm also not forcing it; after cutting too fast, I slowed
down, figuring the cuts would be acceptable; they weren't and that day I
built a sled.

I stand by the statement that the slider is less accurate. Read up on
them. I don't really care how YOU 'feel' about yours, I've observed
them and wouldn't buy one for precision work. Would I buy one if I was
a contractor framing a house. Yeah!



You seem to have an interesting way of non answering. The topic was sliding
miter saws vs. non-sliding miter saws, not miter saws vs. cross cut sleds on
a table saw. My question was if you had measured the accuracy difference,
or if you were parroting something that you had read. From your answer it
is pretty clear that you have read about the accuracy of sliding miter saws,
and you have measured the accuracy of the cut that you get with your
non-slider, but it sounds like you have never investigated the difference
between sliders and non-sliders. I wonder why you felt you had information
to add to the slider vs. non-slider comparison.

I also don't understand the following:

"I use a sled. By using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut
a number of boards to exact length."

Are you using a sled, the fence, or both to cross cut?

Bob McBreen

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:43:46 GMT, Bay Area Dave wrote:

as long as YOU are happy with the accuracy that's all that matters. I
don't even use my Dewalt CMS for precise cross-cuts. I use a sled. By
using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut a number of
boards to exact length and the cut is cleaner than what comes off my
Dewalt, even using an 80 tooth blade. A moving WWII gives a better cut
than the 80 Dewalt. Plus the DeWalt is thin kerf and it WILL flex when
cutting wider boards, even those that aren't very thick, and YES, even
if I go pretty slowly.
well you are using a 12" thin kerf blade what do you expect? try a 1) WW chopsaw
blade a world of difference.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

no argument there. i suspect the thin kerf to be much of the problem.

Steve Knight wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:43:46 GMT, Bay Area Dave wrote:


as long as YOU are happy with the accuracy that's all that matters. I
don't even use my Dewalt CMS for precise cross-cuts. I use a sled. By
using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut a number of
boards to exact length and the cut is cleaner than what comes off my
Dewalt, even using an 80 tooth blade. A moving WWII gives a better cut
than the 80 Dewalt. Plus the DeWalt is thin kerf and it WILL flex when
cutting wider boards, even those that aren't very thick, and YES, even
if I go pretty slowly.

well you are using a 12" thin kerf blade what do you expect? try a 1) WW chopsaw
blade a world of difference.

Bay Area Dave wrote...
I stand by the statement that the slider is less accurate.

You're standing by a foolish statement, then.

Read up on them.

Why? He's not the one having problems. You are! Perhaps you should be
trying to figure out why your saw doesn't work as well as his (and mine).
You're obviously doing something wrong.

I don't really care how YOU 'feel' about yours,

He wasn't talking about "feelings." He was relating his experience. He
*tested* the two saws against each other. His experience is worth a lot
more than your opinion, especially given *your* comparison:

BAD I use a sled. By
using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut a number of
boards to exact length and the cut is cleaner than what comes off my
Dewalt, even using an 80 tooth blade. A moving WWII gives a better cut
than the 80 Dewalt. Plus the DeWalt is thin kerf and it WILL flex when
cutting wider boards, even those that aren't very thick, and YES, even
if I go pretty slowly

You make a lot of mistakes here. Example 1: you use the Bies fence for
cross-cutting. Either you don't know what you are doing, or you aren't
explaining it properly. If you *are* using a stop block, then the fact
that it's on a Bies fence means nothing. If you aren't, then you are
inviting problems crosscutting with the fence on a tablesaw. Equal
accuracy (and better, for longer stock) can be achieved with a stop block
setup on the miter saw. Example 2: A "moving WWII"? In a tablesaw? Or are
you talking about the fact that the blade rotates? Like the "80 Dewalt"
doesn't? You just don't make sense. Example 3: You now have started
comparing the blades, thus changing the topic. Example 4: You complain
about not getting straight cuts, and blame it on the type of blade. You
have misdiagnosed the problem. Either your blade is bad, or your saw is
misaligned. But the problem is not attributable to the blade's thin kerf,
nor to the fact that it is being used on a SCMS.

These things seriously jeopardize your credibility.

Jim

you didn't read the follow up posts. that will clear up your idea that
I'm using the Bies incorrectly.

a moving blade--of course I mean moving laterally through the wood, as
opposed to a CMS that comes straight down. NOT a slider - that is
moving, akin to a TS.

so you see, Jimbo, I'm not QUITE as stupid as you surmised. you just
didn't do your homework to check the other posts explaining in
excruciating detail what I'd hope everyone could understand without me
having to explain every last little thing. You assumed too much.

dave

Jim Wilson wrote:

Bay Area Dave wrote...

I stand by the statement that the slider is less accurate.


You're standing by a foolish statement, then.


Read up on them.


Why? He's not the one having problems. You are! Perhaps you should be
trying to figure out why your saw doesn't work as well as his (and mine).
You're obviously doing something wrong.


I don't really care how YOU 'feel' about yours,


He wasn't talking about "feelings." He was relating his experience. He
*tested* the two saws against each other. His experience is worth a lot
more than your opinion, especially given *your* comparison:

BAD I use a sled. By

using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut a number of
boards to exact length and the cut is cleaner than what comes off my
Dewalt, even using an 80 tooth blade. A moving WWII gives a better cut
than the 80 Dewalt. Plus the DeWalt is thin kerf and it WILL flex when
cutting wider boards, even those that aren't very thick, and YES, even
if I go pretty slowly


You make a lot of mistakes here. Example 1: you use the Bies fence for
cross-cutting. Either you don't know what you are doing, or you aren't
explaining it properly. If you *are* using a stop block, then the fact
that it's on a Bies fence means nothing. If you aren't, then you are
inviting problems crosscutting with the fence on a tablesaw. Equal
accuracy (and better, for longer stock) can be achieved with a stop block
setup on the miter saw. Example 2: A "moving WWII"? In a tablesaw? Or are
you talking about the fact that the blade rotates? Like the "80 Dewalt"
doesn't? You just don't make sense. Example 3: You now have started
comparing the blades, thus changing the topic. Example 4: You complain
about not getting straight cuts, and blame it on the type of blade. You
have misdiagnosed the problem. Either your blade is bad, or your saw is
misaligned. But the problem is not attributable to the blade's thin kerf,
nor to the fact that it is being used on a SCMS.

These things seriously jeopardize your credibility.

Jim

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:47:06 GMT, Bay Area Dave wrote:

it's not as accurate for precision cuts as a non slider. the blade and
motor will will have some lateral slop, in relation to the wood and
table. I quit using my non-slider for super precise cross-cuts. I made
a sled and use the TS for accurate cross-cuts. Like to within .005 or
better.

my makita is as accurate as you are going to get with a good blade. I don't find
the saw flexing at all. it blew away my delta chopsaws for accuracy and they
were not sliders.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Steve Knight responds:

it's not as accurate for precision cuts as a non slider. the blade and
motor will will have some lateral slop, in relation to the wood and
table. I quit using my non-slider for super precise cross-cuts. I made
a sled and use the TS for accurate cross-cuts. Like to within .005 or
better.

my makita is as accurate as you are going to get with a good blade. I don't
find
the saw flexing at all. it blew away my delta chopsaws for accuracy and they
were not sliders.

Yeah, well, when I tested a bunch of these a couple years ago, I did find that
you could more easily twist the handles on the sliders to force the cut off the
proper line.

Given anything like proper technique, I found NO difference in the better
quality sliders and non-sliders. The lower quality units weren't all that bad,
but needed more care in handling and more frequent tuning (which isn't nearly
as bad as tuning an RAS, because the slider mechanisms on the SCMSs are
simpler).

I was able to twist every saw off its proper line, so a gentle hand and a
straight downward pressure (in the direction of the line of the cut) is a real
help with these tools.

Charlie Self

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of
things." Sir Winston Churchill

Steve,

is that a 10" or 12" and thin kerf or standard?

dave

Steve Knight wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:47:06 GMT, Bay Area Dave wrote:


it's not as accurate for precision cuts as a non slider. the blade and
motor will will have some lateral slop, in relation to the wood and
table. I quit using my non-slider for super precise cross-cuts. I made
a sled and use the TS for accurate cross-cuts. Like to within .005 or
better.


my makita is as accurate as you are going to get with a good blade. I don't find
the saw flexing at all. it blew away my delta chopsaws for accuracy and they
were not sliders.

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:34:09 GMT, Bay Area Dave wrote:

Steve,

is that a 10" or 12" and thin kerf or standard?


10" and standard kerf. no need for a thin the saw has plenty of power. but it
makes a difference in accuracy of cut between my freud 80t and my WW blade.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Steve,

that's been my take on why I get bowed cuts on my 12" Dewalt--it's a
skinny blade.

all of the Freud's at HD are thin kerf (all the ones in the store I was
in last week). ever see a HD with a std kerf Freud?

dave

Steve Knight wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:34:09 GMT, Bay Area Dave wrote:


Steve,

is that a 10" or 12" and thin kerf or standard?



10" and standard kerf. no need for a thin the saw has plenty of power. but it
makes a difference in accuracy of cut between my freud 80t and my WW blade.

One thing to think about is clearance behind the saw. It will need to be
farther away from the wall then a non-sliding saw. Otherwise, cutting
capacity is the main difference.


"PeterM" wrote in message
...
I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a rollaway
table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the sliding
feature or not.......Any help will be appreciated

I was the original poster........This was/is a remarkable post, I
learned a lot, and laughed a lot, but I think all the information taught
me to stick with my non-sliding ugly old MiterSaw. Many thanks to you
all.......Peter

"Jay" wrote in message
...
One thing to think about is clearance behind the saw. It will need to
be
farther away from the wall then a non-sliding saw. Otherwise, cutting
capacity is the main difference.


"PeterM" wrote in message
...
I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a
rollaway
table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the
sliding
feature or not.......Any help will be appreciated

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:06:18 -0800, "PeterM" wrote:

I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a rollaway
table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the sliding
feature or not.......Any help will be appreciated


I've had a 12" Dewalt SCMS (DW 708) for about three or four years.
Before that I used an 8-1/2" Hitachi SCMS (C8FB2). Before that I
used a 10" Makita Chop Saw. Before that I used a Stanley 5" Human
Powered Mitre(sic) Box (358-A).

Properly set up they are all accurate but the SCMS has the edge on
capacity. I do a fair amount of tallish baseboards and larger size
crown moldings and the extra capacity is a great advantage in these
situations. This is particularly true for the largest crown moldings,
as they may be cut lying down on the SCMS.

The crosscut capacity of the SCMS is much greater than the CMS. I can
rough cut a little over 20" in width on my Dewalt, by lifting the
board and the blade (do not try this at home).

It is important to use a quality blade (do not use thin kerf blades)
and to allow the blade to come up to full speed before bringing it
into contact with the wood. Deciding where to start the cut depends
on what you need to accomplish.

On pre-finished, wide flat work, or crown molding, where it must be
cut with the good side up, I usually enter the piece slowly, back at
the fence and pull towards me. Sometimes I will merely do a light
scoring cut this way and then make the full depth cut on the push
stroke. When the piece can be cut good side down I cut on the push.
On smaller pieces of trim, that could be cut as you would with a chop
saw, I push the blade into the cut, except in instances where a
pre-finished top edge would make it better to cut as with a chop saw.

On both of the SCMS types that I have used, a good feature is the
depth stop. I find this to be very useful in making dentil moldings,
scoring the line for some dado and rabbets, and for the relief cuts
that must be made to bend curved baseboards and such. To have this
work properly you must pack out the fence so that the full diameter of
the blade enters the piece all along the cut. (a two inch rip to pack
out the fence on the DW708)

To come back to the consideration of accuracy; I've found the SCMS
models that I've used to be plenty accurate for most trim work. I
also get good square crosscuts when cutting 12" wide stock for
bookcases. For very fine work, as in small moldings and small stock
sizes, as might be used in jewelry boxes, etc., I use the SCMS to get
me close and then finish up with a Lion Miter Trimmer.

A Dewalt DW708 goes for around $600 new and the price you quoted fits
in with what I usually expect to get for used equipment in good
condition (60% of current best price). This doesn't take into
consideration the stand, or any other accessories, blades, etc. that
may come with it.

If the saw is in good shape, you should wind up with an accurate,
high-capacity tool for a fair price.


Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson