I am hoping someone can suggest the best way for me to do crown
molding in my kitchen. I am a foolishly optimistic novice doing a new
cabinet install in my house and currently there are no wall cabinets
(I tore out the old ones, I put in the base cabinets and countertops
successfully). The new wall cabinets are 42" and, with the crown
molding, will run up to the ceiling. The doors are full overhang and
there is not much face frame peeking over the tops of the doors (maybe
1/8"). I was planning to put a backer board on top of the cabinets
around the perimeter where I was going to attach the crown molding,
just to give me something to nail into. I would do this before I
installed the cabinets on the wall, obviously, because there will be
no room to work on top of the cabinets once they are up. I would then
nail the crown into this backer.

Problem: the ceiling is not even.

There is no face frame for the crown to ride up and down to match the
ceiling. Here are some suggestions I have heard to solve this problem.
I would love to hear some feedback on these ideas or any other ideas
people have on how to solve this problem:

1. get an additional narrow molding and scribe to match the ceiling

pros-will match ceiling very well
cons-a lot of extra work, cannot do until the crown is installed,
difficult to attach to the crown once it's scribed

2. hang the cabinets higher and scribe the crown to match

pros-will match ceiling well
cons-if I scribe too much, will ruin the look of the crown, a lot of
effort

3. hang the cabinets low enough so that the crown never actually
touches the ceiling; leave a 'shadow line' above the cabinets that
will vary as the ceiling moves up and down

pros-very easy to do
cons-if the ceiling goes up and down by 1/2" or more, will this look
bad? Will it look bad regardless to have cabinets and crown that is
supposed to go straight to the ceiling but stops just short of it?

4. run quarter-round between the crown molding and the ceiling, on top
of the crown, and vary that up and down to match the ceiling

pros-easier than scribing
cons-cost of quarter-round; will it look good? can it cover a 1/2"
variation in ceiling height?

Thanks to anyone that can offer pointers, advice, information, or
suggestions! I am waiting for your answers before I make my next
move...

"nemo" wrote in message
om...
I am hoping someone can suggest the best way for me to do crown
molding in my kitchen.

Problem: the ceiling is not even.
\
I can't help but thinking that you are ignoring the obvious.

Why not fix the ceiling? You are going to do all the work of redoing the
kitchen, and you are going to leave a ugly ceiling? It will ruin all the
results of your hard work. Put up furring strips at 90 degrees to the
ceiling joists, and shim them to a string, install sheetrock, and fix the
darn thing. It is not that much work.
--
Jim in NC

Thanks to all the responses so far.

To the person that said to put a finished backer to put the crown
molding flush with the doors rather than the face frames: Thanks! I
went to a cabinet store today and saw that they had them flush to the
frames, and it looks much worse that
way. I ordered backing molding today and I'm sure it will look much
better.

To the person that said to drop the cabinets down and leave a space
above: I already have the cabinets. But I deliberately chose to have
them go all the way up because I like that look better

To the people that think I should just put a level, flat drywall
ceiling over the existing ceiling: the current ceiling isn't ugly,
just unlevel, and to me the idea of putting another over it seems like
a lot of work. This is especially true because I am doing almost all
of this alone and it is hard to get a helper. Renting a drywall
lifter? Hauling it up, screwing and taping it all on the ceiling by
myself? If there is another solution I am interested in it. But I
appreciate your opinions.

I talked to another cabinet guy today and he suggested that I simply
run some scribe molding, which is easily bendable, along the top of
the crown to the ceiling. The crown has about 1/2" that the scribe
could run up and down if it turns out that the gaps are too much to
caulk over. I'm a bit surprised that no one touched this idea--is
there a problem with this? It doesn't seem to me that it would look
bad, or would even be noticeable to most people.

I think the best strategy now is to hang the cabinets so the crown is
flush with the ceiling at the low point. If the gap is small enough to
caulk, I'll do that. If the gap is too big, I'll run scribe along it
and bend it to the ceiling. Please let me know if there is something
wrong with this solution.

Also, a follow-up question: does anyone have any experience with using
a high-tack construction adhesive like Lok-Tite to apply molding? It
seems much easier than pre-drilling and nailing, and there are no nail
holes to fill. I don't have a brad nailer. I might buy a
compressor/brad kit if it really seems necessary but I thought I'd ask
about this first. The video demo at the store shows them putting it on
a wall and immediately hanging a brick on the stuff!

Thanks again for the helpful responses and I look forward to more of
them.

On 30 Sep 2003 19:26:33 -0700, (nemo) wrote:

Thanks to all the responses so far.

To the person that said to put a finished backer to put the crown
molding flush with the doors rather than the face frames: Thanks! I
went to a cabinet store today and saw that they had them flush to the
frames, and it looks much worse that
way. I ordered backing molding today and I'm sure it will look much
better.

To the person that said to drop the cabinets down and leave a space
above: I already have the cabinets. But I deliberately chose to have
them go all the way up because I like that look better

To the people that think I should just put a level, flat drywall
ceiling over the existing ceiling: the current ceiling isn't ugly,
just unlevel, and to me the idea of putting another over it seems like
a lot of work. This is especially true because I am doing almost all
of this alone and it is hard to get a helper. Renting a drywall
lifter? Hauling it up, screwing and taping it all on the ceiling by
myself? If there is another solution I am interested in it. But I
appreciate your opinions.

I talked to another cabinet guy today and he suggested that I simply
run some scribe molding, which is easily bendable, along the top of
the crown to the ceiling. The crown has about 1/2" that the scribe
could run up and down if it turns out that the gaps are too much to
caulk over. I'm a bit surprised that no one touched this idea--is
there a problem with this? It doesn't seem to me that it would look
bad, or would even be noticeable to most people.

I think the best strategy now is to hang the cabinets so the crown is
flush with the ceiling at the low point. If the gap is small enough to
caulk, I'll do that. If the gap is too big, I'll run scribe along it
and bend it to the ceiling. Please let me know if there is something
wrong with this solution.

Also, a follow-up question: does anyone have any experience with using
a high-tack construction adhesive like Lok-Tite to apply molding? It
seems much easier than pre-drilling and nailing, and there are no nail
holes to fill. I don't have a brad nailer. I might buy a
compressor/brad kit if it really seems necessary but I thought I'd ask
about this first. The video demo at the store shows them putting it on
a wall and immediately hanging a brick on the stuff!

Thanks again for the helpful responses and I look forward to more of
them.

Is this a single story house? If so you could get up in the attic and
shim the dry wall down to the molding. skeez

wrote in message
...
On 30 Sep 2003 19:26:33 -0700, (nemo) wrote:

Thanks to all the responses so far.


Attach the crown molding to the ceiling only *not* to the cabinets.
Then, as the cabinets settle, you won't see the gap because they will
simply slide against the crown. If you attach them to the cabinets,
they'll pull away from the ceiling.

Is this a single story house? If so you could get up in the attic and
shim the dry wall down to the molding. skeez

If only. Unfortunately, the bathroom is above the kitchen.

Attach the crown molding to the ceiling only *not* to the cabinets.
Then, as the cabinets settle, you won't see the gap because they will
simply slide against the crown. If you attach them to the cabinets,
they'll pull away from the ceiling.

Will the cabinets really settle significantly? I'm going to screw them
to 80 year old studs.

How would I best attach the molding to a plaster-lathe ceiling?

How can I attach the crown to the unlevel ceiling and still have it
line up with the cabinets?

Boy, you got a real problem ahead. I remodeled my mother-in-law's kitchen
about 20 years ago, a farm house built in the early 20's. All lath and
plaster. I had a simular problem with the crown molding. I had to screw a
backer to the ceiling to attach the molding to. I ran the backer (1x2) thru
the TS so the edge matched the back side of the crown molding. I still ended
up with some plaster cracks but they were small.

Hope this helps.

ELA

"nemo" wrote in message
om...
Attach the crown molding to the ceiling only *not* to the cabinets.
Then, as the cabinets settle, you won't see the gap because they will
simply slide against the crown. If you attach them to the cabinets,
they'll pull away from the ceiling.

Will the cabinets really settle significantly? I'm going to screw them
to 80 year old studs.

How would I best attach the molding to a plaster-lathe ceiling?

How can I attach the crown to the unlevel ceiling and still have it
line up with the cabinets?

(nemo) wrote in message . com...
Thanks to all the responses so far.

To the person that said to put a finished backer to put the crown
molding flush with the doors rather than the face frames: Thanks! I
went to a cabinet store today and saw that they had them flush to the
frames, and it looks much worse that
way. I ordered backing molding today and I'm sure it will look much
better.

To the person that said to drop the cabinets down and leave a space
above: I already have the cabinets. But I deliberately chose to have
them go all the way up because I like that look better

To the people that think I should just put a level, flat drywall
ceiling over the existing ceiling: the current ceiling isn't ugly,
just unlevel, and to me the idea of putting another over it seems like
a lot of work. This is especially true because I am doing almost all
of this alone and it is hard to get a helper. Renting a drywall
lifter? Hauling it up, screwing and taping it all on the ceiling by
myself? If there is another solution I am interested in it. But I
appreciate your opinions.

I talked to another cabinet guy today and he suggested that I simply
run some scribe molding, which is easily bendable, along the top of
the crown to the ceiling. The crown has about 1/2" that the scribe
could run up and down if it turns out that the gaps are too much to
caulk over. I'm a bit surprised that no one touched this idea--is
there a problem with this? It doesn't seem to me that it would look
bad, or would even be noticeable to most people.

I think the best strategy now is to hang the cabinets so the crown is
flush with the ceiling at the low point. If the gap is small enough to
caulk, I'll do that. If the gap is too big, I'll run scribe along it
and bend it to the ceiling. Please let me know if there is something
wrong with this solution.

Also, a follow-up question: does anyone have any experience with using
a high-tack construction adhesive like Lok-Tite to apply molding? It
seems much easier than pre-drilling and nailing, and there are no nail
holes to fill. I don't have a brad nailer. I might buy a
compressor/brad kit if it really seems necessary but I thought I'd ask
about this first. The video demo at the store shows them putting it on
a wall and immediately hanging a brick on the stuff!

Thanks again for the helpful responses and I look forward to more of
them.

Hello, I install kitchens for a living and use a product called Mitre
Bond, it is a two part CA product. It works great for securing miters
on crown and other moldings (sets up in about 5 seconds) You may be
able to find it at a specialty woodworking store, I buy it locally
from a C-top distributor. As for your crown to ceiling problem, I
never recommend that scenario especially with full overlay doors and /
or hardwood crown. The caulk method would be my first choice, the
scribe my last.

"nemo" wrote in message
om...
Attach the crown molding to the ceiling only *not* to the cabinets.
Then, as the cabinets settle, you won't see the gap because they
will
simply slide against the crown. If you attach them to the cabinets,
they'll pull away from the ceiling.

Will the cabinets really settle significantly? I'm going to screw them
to 80 year old studs.


Gravity - it's not just a good idea -- it's the law.


How would I best attach the molding to a plaster-lathe ceiling?


If the joists run parallel, use them, if not, put a backer up and either
molly it or liquid nail it up. I've also had success with an air nailer
in wood lathe.


How can I attach the crown to the unlevel ceiling and still have it
line up with the cabinets?

Shim it and caulk it.

To the people that think I should just put a level, flat drywall
ceiling over the existing ceiling: the current ceiling isn't ugly,
just unlevel, and to me the idea of putting another over it seems like
a lot of work.

Good idea. If you put another ceiling *over* a lathe and plaster one,
you're going to have a mess of trouble later. Putting sheetrock over
it just catches the old ceiling if it ever starts to fall (and they
like to do that), and you end up with a big sag in the middle of the
room that you can't just screw back up. If you replace it (not saying
you should) tear the old ceiling down first.

This is especially true because I am doing almost all
of this alone and it is hard to get a helper. Renting a drywall
lifter? Hauling it up, screwing and taping it all on the ceiling by
myself? If there is another solution I am interested in it. But I
appreciate your opinions.

It's not as hard as you think... I've done three or four ceilings
alone, and I've got a technique for it down-

Get an 8' step ladder and set it in the middle of the area you're
going to mount the drywall to. Drill a small hole in one end of the
drywall and stick one of those wall mount screws in it (the ones with
the springy clip on the end that won't just rip a big hole out of your
wall when you pull on it) Tie a piece of twine to the end of the
screw, and lift the drywall onto the ladder (be careful not to bust it
in half- if you're having trouble with that, try placing a board under
it the long way to support the sheet so it doesn't bow so much) Get on
the side of the ladder opposite the screw and pull the end down with
the twine (easiest way is to hook it under one of the steps of the
ladder and pull up on the twine) so that it levers the side you're on
up against the ceiling, and screw it in. You'll need at least three
or four screws in, preferably in a couple of studs, to make sure it
doesn't rip right out when you let go. Then go over to the other
side, take out the wall mount screw (you should have enough clearance
to get the clip out as well) and then tack up the corners. This way
takes most of the weight off then you're screwing it in, and works
pretty good. If you don't want to use the screw and twine, just set
the ladder a little off center, and gravity will do the rest. Piece
of cake- and no helper or drywall jack.

I think the best strategy now is to hang the cabinets so the crown is
flush with the ceiling at the low point. If the gap is small enough to
caulk, I'll do that. If the gap is too big, I'll run scribe along it
and bend it to the ceiling. Please let me know if there is something
wrong with this solution.

If you bend it to the ceiling, your joints will be messed up- unless
you're really handy with crown molding. Be careful if you do that.

Also, a follow-up question: does anyone have any experience with using
a high-tack construction adhesive like Lok-Tite to apply molding? It
seems much easier than pre-drilling and nailing, and there are no nail
holes to fill. I don't have a brad nailer. I might buy a
compressor/brad kit if it really seems necessary but I thought I'd ask
about this first. The video demo at the store shows them putting it on
a wall and immediately hanging a brick on the stuff!

And you can use krazy glue to hang an elephant from a crane, too.
Don't get confused by advertising! You don't need a brad nailer,
though- if you're just doing a couple pieces of trim use a hammer and
a nail punch.

Good luck with your project- crown molding can be a real pain in the
rear!