"Dennis " wrote in message
...
"J&KCopeland" wrote in message
news

"Dennis " wrote in message
...
"Scratch Ankle Wood" wrote in message
s.com...
The other day I had one of my people stuck with a 2 1/2 download
time
for
email on her computer because of viruses (the first wave) that had
come
in
starting about Labor Day. All from one Road Runner Indianapolis
account.
Her ISP's response when called was to say it was just spam and he
could
change there email address to solve it. Interesting response I
thought.
Wonder why his business isn't flourishing. Actually, he better than
the
other local providers and none are doing well. Anyway, one email to
abuse
at Road Runner solved the problem.

The numerous emails I'm getting don't appear to be from any
real source. When asked about putting virus filtering software
on their mail servers, my ISP (Patriot Media in NJ) actually
said "no one is using that kind of thing or else there wouldn't
be all the viruses spreading around the world." Needless to
say I was shocked by this logic.

Dennis Vogel


No one does it for a reason.

With thousands of end users, it's extremely difficult to create a
general
application rule that wouldn't supress legitmate eMail for someone. I
have
a rule deleting everything that has "Microsoft" in the subject line, but
if
I worked for Microsoft or one of it umpteen vendors, I might find that
particular rule, totally unacceptable.

How about an email that contains a virus? Those should be filtered
by an ISP.

Once new virus configurations are well, known, I'm reasonably certain that
some (many, most) ISP's might well do extactly that. But someone, somewhere
has got to get copies of the infected code, break the code down to locate
and identify exactly the code sequence that's the culprit, and then issue
"definations" of that code sequence, and the administrators have to download
and install the new "definations". Norton, McAfee and Dr Solomon make a lot
of money doing exactly that. While this process is going on, a malicious
virus can spread world wide, in a matter of MINUTES.

In fact, a good ISP will let individual users configure
their own filters.

Are we talking apples and oranges here? I know of no ISP that will let
end-users anywhere near their news servers. Normally, end-users have
read-only access to the servers, and any filters and/or specific (anti-spam)
programs are applied by the individual's boxes to incoming mail. (Perhaps
there are ISP's that allow end-users to specifically configure their
individual accounts on the servers, but it sounds like a great way for
someone to screw up their mail and then blame the ISP, and since each user
already has the power to create their own rules under any modern newsreader,
I don't see where this would actually help much. BTW. The "bandwidth" has
already been "chewed" up by the time the messages reach the server.

Look, my personal "Microsoft" worm count is now passing 200, so I'm
completely in tune with the frustration expressed. And I've no doubt that
some ISP administrators are probably manually deleting this incoming
messages off their servers, like crazy.

Good for them!

No need for everyone to have the same filters.
This isn't a difficult problem to solve. And it's in the ISP's interest
to do this because it is their bandwidth that is getting chewed up
with this crap.

I don't normally eMail executable files, but I have, on occasion
forwarded
a
particular file to a relative.

Even the multi-address rules of some ISP's can cause problems. My
daughter,
a manager, regularily sends out bluk eMails to 22 regionally dispersed
employees.

Much better for end users to learn the rather simple rule, do NOT open
any
attachments unless you know exactly who sent it and why.

Yeah but there's a little problem. When I shut off my computer, the
email backs up on the ISPs mail server. When it gets full, valid
email gets bounced. Overnight is sufficient to clog my mailbox.

Hmmmm. To be tactless, either your ISP allocates an extremely small amount
of space per user OR you're getting helluva lot of large eMail messages.
(BTW, I know this can happen. My BIL regularily sends and receives CAD
files and those suckers are HUGE. He had to request, and was granted,
additional storage space by his ISP. My wife once send a large uncompressed
bunch of pictures, to several relatives. I was surprised that my ISP would
let them out. But the relatives, especially the ones still on dialup
weren't happy at all.)


Dennis Vogel

James...

Andy Dingley wrote:
Now 4,000 and counting.
However I've auto killed all but about 50 of the last 1,000


Jeez... I use Outlook Express, ZoneAlarm Pro, and Norton's Antivirus. I have
made good use of Outlook Express's rules capability and as a result, I get less
than 3 unsolicited spam messages a week. Not only do they not show up in my
"delete" folder, I never see the rest of the crap at all. It's deleted from the
server.

I've never had a virus either. I wish I could say the same thing for hardware
meltdowns.

After having helped my father restore his system last week from a hard drive
failure, I've now invested in external USB hard drives for the both of us.
Drive Image 7 supports them (USB drives). I am determined never to have to
start from scratch again.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

Getting them off my machine is the easy part.
I can do that with Outlook Express. What I want
is a way to prevent them from getting to the mailbox
on my ISP's mail server. That's where they backup
and prevent the delivery of legitimate email.
I don't think Spamkiller will do that. The ball is
in the ISP's court.

Dennis Vogel

"Ramsey" wrote in message
...
Just loaed McAfee SpamkiIler and it worked!! Instantly stopped ALL
the 250+ day emails I've been getting. How sweet it is!!

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:26:39 GMT, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

How is yours being
stopped at work with these tools?

Essentially, our tech sets up rules at the mail server for what is and
isn't allowed through. As well, our anti-virus server is constantly
updating its defs and is also set to quarantine any unknown attachment
and ask for help if it doesn't understand what's being sent.

Bottom line is nobody should be sending us executables via email.
Filter for that and all this worm crap goes away.

djb

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
...

Jeez... I use Outlook Express, ZoneAlarm Pro, and Norton's Antivirus. I
have
made good use of Outlook Express's rules capability and as a result, I get
less
than 3 unsolicited spam messages a week. Not only do they not show up in
my
"delete" folder, I never see the rest of the crap at all. It's deleted
from the
server.

Your ISP must be running something to filter the spam
and viruses. Or you've been very lucky. I run all
the same things you do. They won't stop spam from
getting to your ISP's server. They will help you contain
and remove it once it is sent to your PC but not before.

Dennis Vogel

"J&KCopeland" wrote in message
...

"Dennis " wrote in message
...
How about an email that contains a virus? Those should be filtered
by an ISP.

Once new virus configurations are well, known, I'm reasonably certain that
some (many, most) ISP's might well do extactly that. But someone,
somewhere
has got to get copies of the infected code, break the code down to locate
and identify exactly the code sequence that's the culprit, and then issue
"definations" of that code sequence, and the administrators have to
download
and install the new "definations". Norton, McAfee and Dr Solomon make a
lot
of money doing exactly that. While this process is going on, a malicious
virus can spread world wide, in a matter of MINUTES.

Yeah, but once they break it down they can program the server
to stop forwarding mail to people. Then even stupid people
who open mail attachments that spread the viruses will be
prevented from perpetuating the virus. This isn't an attempt to
prevent the spread of the virus but rather to prevent the secondary
effects of flooding mail boxes with garbage.

In fact, a good ISP will let individual users configure
their own filters.

Are we talking apples and oranges here? I know of no ISP that will let
end-users anywhere near their news servers. Normally, end-users have
read-only access to the servers, and any filters and/or specific
(anti-spam)
programs are applied by the individual's boxes to incoming mail. (Perhaps
there are ISP's that allow end-users to specifically configure their
individual accounts on the servers, but it sounds like a great way for
someone to screw up their mail and then blame the ISP, and since each user
already has the power to create their own rules under any modern
newsreader,
I don't see where this would actually help much.

Arrgh. It's not rocket science to create a server-based program with
a small client app that let's me set my server email parameters: don't
forward email with viruses, don't forward email with "enlargement"
ads, etc. No one is going near the server. Rules at the newsreader
don't help. An infected machine somewhere is sending me 10 junk
emails an hour. If I shut down my PC the mail piles up at the server.
By the enxt morning my server mailbox is full and who-knows-how-
many legitimate emails have been bounced. *Nothing* in a modern
newsreader will solve this problem. It must be handled at the server.

BTW. The "bandwidth" has
already been "chewed" up by the time the messages reach the server.

Not the bandwidth between the mail server an all the ISP's customers.
Jillions of megabits of crap are flowing cutting down on useful
bandwidth for legitimate purposes.

Look, my personal "Microsoft" worm count is now passing 200, so I'm
completely in tune with the frustration expressed. And I've no doubt that
some ISP administrators are probably manually deleting this incoming
messages off their servers, like crazy.
Good for them!

Mine isn't. They tried to tell me it is something I should do on my
PC. I tried to explain the problem but they don't seem to get it.

Yeah but there's a little problem. When I shut off my computer, the
email backs up on the ISPs mail server. When it gets full, valid
email gets bounced. Overnight is sufficient to clog my mailbox.

Hmmmm. To be tactless, either your ISP allocates an extremely small
amount
of space per user OR you're getting helluva lot of large eMail messages.


Yes, yes, YES! Hundreds of emails overnight. Don't know what
the limit is but I've never had a problem until this crap started
happening this week. Now you get it.

Dennis Vogel

Dennis wrote:
Rules at the newsreader
don't help. An infected machine somewhere is sending me 10 junk
emails an hour. If I shut down my PC the mail piles up at the server.
By the enxt morning my server mailbox is full and who-knows-how-
many legitimate emails have been bounced. *Nothing* in a modern
newsreader will solve this problem. It must be handled at the server.

Not true. Make your rules with the following action: "Delete From Server".
Not only will you never see the spam in your delete folder, your pop server will
get rid of them as well. You can do this; you're running the same email program
I use.

Yes, yes, YES! Hundreds of emails overnight. Don't know what
the limit is but I've never had a problem until this crap started
happening this week. Now you get it.

So leave your mailreader up until this dies down. My computer is up and running
24/7/365. I seldom see spam.
FWIW, I have my monitor power down after 20 minutes of inactivity; everything
else stays active.


--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN


http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

In article , Andy Dingley
wrote:

Now 4,000 and counting.
However I've auto killed all but about 50 of the last 1,000

They aren't hitting my mailbox anymore, but Spam Assassin is killing
them at my mail server about twice a minute. Beyiond that, I've stopped
counting.

djb

--
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
news
Dennis wrote:
Rules at the newsreader
don't help. An infected machine somewhere is sending me 10 junk
emails an hour. If I shut down my PC the mail piles up at the server.
By the enxt morning my server mailbox is full and who-knows-how-
many legitimate emails have been bounced. *Nothing* in a modern
newsreader will solve this problem. It must be handled at the server.

Not true. Make your rules with the following action: "Delete From
Server".
Not only will you never see the spam in your delete folder, your pop
server will
get rid of them as well. You can do this; you're running the same email
program
I use.

If my PC is powered down, there is no rule any mail client can
execute that will delete mail from a POP server.

Yes, yes, YES! Hundreds of emails overnight. Don't know what
the limit is but I've never had a problem until this crap started
happening this week. Now you get it.

So leave your mailreader up until this dies down. My computer is up and
running
24/7/365. I seldom see spam.
FWIW, I have my monitor power down after 20 minutes of inactivity;
everything
else stays active.

Well, I have no choice but to do that. But I don't want to leave it up.
My only consolation is that someone out there has had their PC
royaly screwed up becaused of their foolish behavior. It's just
too bad it's harming others as well. I just wish that (those?) people
would disconnect their PC from the Internet.

Dennis Vogel

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 19:12:19 -0400, "Dennis "
wrote:

It's just
too bad it's harming others as well. I just wish that (those?) people
would disconnect their PC from the Internet.

Dennis Vogel


Sooner or later the ISPs of the computers sending this will notice
just because of heavy traffic from their account and shut them down.
It can't happen too soon.