Hi Folk,

I Love Nitrocellulose (NC) because it dries fast and gives wood
incredible life, unlike anything else I have used, looks like you can
see right into the grain. Add to that it is easy to repair etc. etc.
etc.

I have a piece that I am making out of walnut and want to oil it to
give some depth to the grain and to darken the colour. Can I use NC
lacquer over an oil? (something like teak oil or similar is what I was
thinking of using.)

be interested as to what the team thinks...

Thanks
Brent

Brent wrote:
Hi Folk,

I Love Nitrocellulose (NC) because it dries fast and gives wood
incredible life, unlike anything else I have used, looks like you
can see right into the grain. Add to that it is easy to repair etc.
etc. etc.

I have a piece that I am making out of walnut and want to oil it to
give some depth to the grain and to darken the colour. Can I use NC
lacquer over an oil? (something like teak oil or similar is what I
was thinking of using.)

Not having spray gear, the only lacquer I use is Deft. The
instructions say it can be used over *thoroughly* dried oil and I have
done so, NP.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Jul 12, 10:58 am, "dadiOH" wrote:

SNIP

Not having spray gear, the only lacquer I use is Deft. The instructions say it can be used over *thoroughly* dried oil and I have done so, NP.

--

dadiOH

Ahhhh.... the much maligned Deft. I started as a full time
woodoworker in '75, and it has been around a lot longer than that. I
still use it today on occasion if I am called on to finish small
projects (cabinets) or interior doors.

That has to be the most forgiving, applicator friendly finish around
that will give great results. I have switched to the Old Master's
brand of lacquer now due to its higher solid content, but wouldn't
hesistate to use a can of Deft
when needed.

I built a desk a few years ago that I pretreated to highlight the
grain with a homebrew of shellac, real turps, tung oil and BLO. I got
that recipe from some furniture maker....
I finished the desk with about three coats of Deft, ONLY sanding out
nibs. Remember with lacquer, scuff coats are not needed and they can
cause more problems if you scratch your surface.

When I spray Deft (or any other lacquer) I usually spray, wait about
forty five minutes, then spray again. Then I wait about an hour and a
half, then spray again. Then about 2 hours, then spray again. I
dont' usually spray more than 3 - 4 coats in a day (unless I am using
my purpose made high dollar stuff) as you can build too fast and get
some blushing. Beware that if you put 3 - 4 coats on the piece, you
should leave it for a few days to cure out before a installing the
piece or a lot of handling takes place.

When I brush or pad, I apply a coat, then wait two hours, then apply
another. I wait about three or four before applying the third coat.
If it feels soft or even the slightest bit plastic I wait longer. For
sure with pad or brush, no more than three coats in a day.

Anyway, do what dadiOH said, let your oil pretreat/enhancer dry
completely (one week to be sure, less if you are in a hurry) then the
Deft will adhere fine.

Robert

wrote in message

Ahhhh.... the much maligned Deft. I started as a full time
woodoworker in '75, and it has been around a lot longer than that. I
still use it today on occasion if I am called on to finish small
projects (cabinets) or interior doors.

You need to write a book, Robert. AAMOF, I've got so many of your posts
saved, it would probably write itself.

I'd buy the first copy ... like clamps, you can't have too many Charlie Self
around here anyway.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

" wrote in
ups.com:

SNIP
Ahhhh.... the much maligned Deft. I started as a full time
woodoworker in '75, and it has been around a lot longer than that. I
still use it today on occasion if I am called on to finish small
projects (cabinets) or interior doors.

That has to be the most forgiving, applicator friendly finish around
that will give great results. I have switched to the Old Master's
brand of lacquer now due to its higher solid content, but wouldn't
hesistate to use a can of Deft
when needed.


Ok. This seems to be a good thread to hijack...

I've been a finish experimenter, although seldom with a spray rig yet.

I did a small red oak entertainment center for my youngest son a few
years back. charlieb, this was one of those father & son projects like
you occasionally write about. His part ended up being taking it home,
because I needed that part of my shop back.

I decided to try Deft, on the recommendation of a friend, brushing out
the finish. Looked ok, but not excellent. And the stuff smelled to
beat high heaven, although that may have been the family smeller on
over-active. The finish turned out not to be nearly as durable and
scratch-resistant as I had been led to believe, and it will need a re-do
at some point in the future.

So was it just bad vibes? Cold weather? A reaction to a shellac
afficianado doing brushed lacquer? A rejection of lacqueer on red oak?
Karma?

Enquiring minds are mildly curious. I gave away the last 2/3 of the
quart...

Patriarch

On Jul 12, 12:56 pm, "Swingman" wrote:

You need to write a book, Robert. AAMOF, I've got so many of your posts saved, it would probably write itself.

I'd buy the first copy ... like clamps, you can't have too many Charlie Self
around here anyway.


Wow... thanks! That's very flattering coming from a cabinet maker of
your caliber. Don't get me started... I might post more!

Actually, I think I have said it before, but I didn't want to learn
much about finishing. But long ago, I laughed pretty hard when the
best finisher I knew told me to "never trust a finisher that isn't an
alcoholic".

How prophetic.

Maybe it's the fumes.

When I had enough, I got after the learning curve, and realized it is
every bit as much as science or art as anything else. I have said it
before, good finishing is easy, great finishing is a long curve.
Something to strive for. It is always just a little bit of trip into
the unknown.

Now it appeals to the "wonk" side of me. I really enjoy learning
about new techniques (and old!) and new finishes.

Anyway, I appreciate the compliment and I am pleased if my comments
help they guys on the group.

Robert

On Jul 12, 9:47 pm, Patriarch wrote:

I've been a finish experimenter, although seldom with a spray rig yet.

Jump in, the water's fine!!

I decided to try Deft, on the recommendation of a friend, brushing out
the finish. Looked ok, but not excellent. And the stuff smelled to
beat high heaven, although that may have been the family smeller on
over-active.

Lacquer is lacquer. The fumes are strong and dangerous. I won't work
around it for more than a few minutes at a time without the proper
mask and ventilation, and probablly shouldn't do it at all. It isn't
something to take lightly.

The finish turned out not to be nearly as durable and scratch- resistant as I had been led to believe, and it will need a re-do
at some point in the future.

The good news about lacquer is that unless it is some post catalysed
or modified polymer resin based stuff, you can easily refinish with
sandpaper and more lacquer. Again, lacquer is lacquer, it isn't
polyurethane. But it has been a standard in the building and
furniture industry since its invention. If applied properly, it can
be quite durable.

So was it just bad vibes? Cold weather? A reaction to a shellac
afficianado doing brushed lacquer?

Finishing lacquer with a brush is a real art. I can do small pieces
(cabinet doors, separate cabinet frames, drawer faces, etc.) but not
whole assembled projects like bookcases or entertainment centers. You
need the correct brushes, the correct technique, and a lot of
practice. That being said, if you can brush shellac to your
satisfaction, you should be able to brush lacquer as well.

Most of the time lacquer finishes applied with a brush leave brush
strokes, streaks, and layered looks. This is poor technique (maybe a
bad or incorrect brush) and is from overworking the surface after
applying to the project, and inconsistent thickness in application.

Here's where a pad will work great. Get those really short haired
pads they sell in the paint department, and try applying Deft with a
pad. With a six inch pad you can do a smooth door in just a few
minutes. If you book case has removable shelves, you will tear it
up. I have refinished nicked cabinet frames in literally seconds with
one of those 2" foam pads they sell to cut in around door when using
latex.

No matter how you apply the Deft, the manufacturer's recommended final
finish will be around 3-4 mil. (Rememer, a dollar bill is 3 mil - an
easy gauge to keep around!). Application of Deft should be in the 3
mil thickness area, but it is so forgiving, a little more won't hurt.
But it will dry to a nominal thickness if about 1 mil. This means 3
coats, minimum to give a serviceable finish.

Another common mistake is to "push" the finish. I tried to describe
the application times in general in an earlier post, ones that
"generally" work. But the push that ruins finish is when you wait too
long for your final coats. If you are going to wait more than
(depending on weather conditions) more than 48 hours to apply your
last coats, you should wait about 10 days before you start again with
multiple coats.

The way lacquer outgasses its solvents affects its cure rates. Better
adhesion comes when the lacquer is still semipermeable, and there is
free flow of the gasses. When the lacquer dries on the last coat and
begins to cure on the outside, it will still outgass fine as long as
nothing else is applied over it. But if the hard cure cycle has
started and you apply a wet coat over the curing coat, you can seal in
moisture (slight cloudiness or milky look) or cause the newer coats to
not bond as well as they should to the partly cured finish.

If like a lot of weekend shop guys you started finishing on one
weekend, then wrapped it up in the next one, you could have created
some problems.

A rejection of lacqueer on red oak?

Probably not... I am thinking of all the red oak cabinets I have
sprayed over the years.. no problems unless the surface was
contaminated.

Karma?

Absolutely a factor. And unless you practice enough to screw up so
many times that you know it "just happens", it can really **** you
off.

But is is actually that way with any finish. I will exclude plain
polyurethane from this comment - those damn formulas out now are the
most forgiving of all. I have days where I have sprayed (literally!)
5 -6 gallons of lacquer without a hitch. From start to finish.

Then, spraying something like an entryway door, I will have more
problems than I can handle. It is rare, but at this stage of the game
I don't take it personally.

You have an easy way to try your Deft again. Sand your project down
and try to pad it, or better still, spray it with one of those
inexpensive HVLPs.

Just my 0.02

Robert