Hi all . . .

Yes, I don't know squat about jointers.

Never had a jointer before, and the only real reason I got it is
because I happened on a mother load of balsa in an estate sale. It's
all rough cut oversize, and I thought the jointer would be useful in
cleaning up the balsa, one of these days.

It's a Delta table top. Not a 'real' jointer, I know.

Read the book (such as it is), jumped through the hoops to check the
blades, and had to shim the output table so it was flat and even with
the input table when the cutter is cranked down below zero.

If I lay a metal straight edge across both tables, it rests flat all
along it's length. No gaps, no high spots.

I think that was ok to do.

Jointed the edge on a few balsa planks just to make sure the thing
worked (I build giant scale radio controlled model aircraft).

Trying to build the David Marks torsion box to use as a building
surface for major model airplane structures. The current model has a
6' fuselage, so I'm making the torsion box 30" x 6'. Anything larger
will eat too much floor space in my "shop".

Got the materials (the BORG ripped the MDF to 30" for me) ready to
cut.

First step is joint 2"x4"s to make a flat work surface to build the
tension box _on_.

Played with a bit of scrap 2x4, and don't understand what's going on.

I ran the 2x through on 1/32" depth until the edge of the 2x was
square over the length. Just playing, mind you.

Flipped the scrap 2x to the other edge and did the same thing.

Now the 2x is visibly tapered end-to-end.

I know the destructions for the torsion box say to joint one edge and
rip the other parallel, and that's not the problem.

I just don't understand why the scrap 2x wound up being very obviously
tapered.

Not feeding it correctly ? Failed to maintain constant down force ?

The scrap wasn't tapered before jointing, at least not that I could
see. It was 'semi-ok' scrap, nothing real ugly, ordinary borgstuff.

Or, is this a normal result of jointing both edges of a piece of wood
? The nature of the beast, as it were ?
Cheers,
Fred McClellan
the dash plumber at mindspring dot com

Your mistake was running the opposite side of the 2x through the jointer
also. The jointer is to be used to straighten and flatten 1 edge and 1
side. A thickness planer will insure against the faces of the wood tapering
and the rip with the TS will insure against the taper of the edges.




"Fred McClellan" wrote in message
...
Hi all . . .

Yes, I don't know squat about jointers.

Never had a jointer before, and the only real reason I got it is
because I happened on a mother load of balsa in an estate sale. It's
all rough cut oversize, and I thought the jointer would be useful in
cleaning up the balsa, one of these days.

It's a Delta table top. Not a 'real' jointer, I know.

Read the book (such as it is), jumped through the hoops to check the
blades, and had to shim the output table so it was flat and even with
the input table when the cutter is cranked down below zero.

If I lay a metal straight edge across both tables, it rests flat all
along it's length. No gaps, no high spots.

I think that was ok to do.

Jointed the edge on a few balsa planks just to make sure the thing
worked (I build giant scale radio controlled model aircraft).

Trying to build the David Marks torsion box to use as a building
surface for major model airplane structures. The current model has a
6' fuselage, so I'm making the torsion box 30" x 6'. Anything larger
will eat too much floor space in my "shop".

Got the materials (the BORG ripped the MDF to 30" for me) ready to
cut.

First step is joint 2"x4"s to make a flat work surface to build the
tension box _on_.

Played with a bit of scrap 2x4, and don't understand what's going on.

I ran the 2x through on 1/32" depth until the edge of the 2x was
square over the length. Just playing, mind you.

Flipped the scrap 2x to the other edge and did the same thing.

Now the 2x is visibly tapered end-to-end.

I know the destructions for the torsion box say to joint one edge and
rip the other parallel, and that's not the problem.

I just don't understand why the scrap 2x wound up being very obviously
tapered.

Not feeding it correctly ? Failed to maintain constant down force ?

The scrap wasn't tapered before jointing, at least not that I could
see. It was 'semi-ok' scrap, nothing real ugly, ordinary borgstuff.

Or, is this a normal result of jointing both edges of a piece of wood
? The nature of the beast, as it were ?
Cheers,
Fred McClellan
the dash plumber at mindspring dot com

Fred McClellan wrote:

Read the book (such as it is), jumped through the hoops to check the
blades, and had to shim the output table so it was flat and even with
the input table when the cutter is cranked down below zero.

And then you raised the outfeed table, right? If not, you left both
tables parallel and then raised the cutter... that would be bad. You
basically have a power planer in that configuration, not a jointer.

The outfeed table, and the top of the knives, need to be slightly
above the infeed table... most I've heard say 1/32" or so should be
plenty, although if you are working with an easy-to-cut wood and have
a lot to take off to get it straight you could probably set it at 1/16".

Think about what a jointer does. It removes the high spots. Since the
piece in question probably had a high spot either in the middle or both
ends, you would end up with opposite sides non-parallel. Now, if you get a
straight edge, scribe the opposite so you have a line parallel to your
straight edge. Lay a low spot on the outfeed gently, take off the high spot
following, work until the board is approximate, then run for straight, and
you'll get pretty parallel.

A jointer is a motorized plane, and the techniques used are similar.

"Fred McClellan" wrote in message
...

I ran the 2x through on 1/32" depth until the edge of the 2x was
square over the length. Just playing, mind you.

Flipped the scrap 2x to the other edge and did the same thing.

Now the 2x is visibly tapered end-to-end.

I know the destructions for the torsion box say to joint one edge and
rip the other parallel, and that's not the problem.

I just don't understand why the scrap 2x wound up being very obviously
tapered.

On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:14:39 -0700, "Kevin P. Fleming"
wrote:

Fred McClellan wrote:

Read the book (such as it is), jumped through the hoops to check the
blades, and had to shim the output table so it was flat and even with
the input table when the cutter is cranked down below zero.

And then you raised the outfeed table, right? If not, you left both
tables parallel and then raised the cutter... that would be bad. You
basically have a power planer in that configuration, not a jointer.


Uh . . . maybe I didn't do a good job explaining what was wrong.

When I got the jointer, the outfeed table was not flat with respect to
the infeed table when the infeed table was all the way up. I know I
said "when the cutter is cranked down below zero".

Dyslexic lips, y'know. I was looking at the depth of cut scale and
thinking about the cutters, not the infeed table which is what moves
up and down.


The outfeed table, and the top of the knives, need to be slightly
above the infeed table... most I've heard say 1/32" or so should be
plenty, although if you are working with an easy-to-cut wood and have
a lot to take off to get it straight you could probably set it at 1/16".

It is now, except when the infeed table is cranked up to zero, above
the cutters.
Cheers,
Fred McClellan
the dash plumber at mindspring dot com

Thanks for the info folks.

Think I got it.

The jointer is doing exactly what it is supposed to do - make one edge
and one face flat.

The other edge has to be ripped, and the other face has to be planed.

The task at hand only needs the two edges flat; the faces are a don't
care. The jointer and itty TS are enough for now.

When the model airplane building budget allows I may get a power
planer, but right now landing gear retract systems eat bucks to the
tune of $650 a set, and I've got three giant models waiting for the
building table.

BTW - I once read 'Seven rules for squaring a board'. Don't recall if
it was here or in the Yahoo lair. Anyone seen that little tid-bit ?
Cheers,
Fred McClellan
the dash plumber at mindspring dot com

Nope, but if the user wants, he can use it to make it so.

"Mike G" wrote in message
...
A jointer will NOT make two edges or faces parallel

Repost

In article , Fred McClellan wrote:
Thanks for the info folks.

Think I got it.

The jointer is doing exactly what it is supposed to do - make one edge
and one face flat.

Right.

The other edge has to be ripped, and the other face has to be planed.

Right again.

The task at hand only needs the two edges flat; the faces are a don't
care. The jointer and itty TS are enough for now.

It's not accurate to say that you don't care about the faces.

First off, unless you have made a face straight and flat *first*, you have no
guarantee that the edge you joint is straight and flat. If the board does not
have a straight, flat face to reference against the jointer fence, then
edge-jointing it can (and probably will) produce a twisted edge.

Also, you need to have one face straight and flat before you run the board
through the table saw. Otherwise, the edges may not be parallel in all
dimensions. For example, if the board is cupped, you may have edges that are
parallel along the length of the board, but not across the width.

The proper procedure is to joint one face straight and flat, then joint one
edge square to that face, then rip the opposite edge parallel. The final step
in squaring a board is to plane the other face parallel to the jointed face.
It appears from what you said that you don't need this step -- but you *do*
need *all* of the other three.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Yes, it's just a cut and paste. Got tired of recreating it every other week.

Take care
Mike

--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." wrote
in message ...
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 21:48:47 -0400, "Mike G"
wrote:

A jointer will NOT make two edges or faces parallel

Repost

Steps for truing stock.


I've seen you post this excellent advice so many times, I hope you
have it saved as a text file. G

Barry

Yes, and he/she can make it so with a sharp rock if they want to badly
enough. I've done it myself (with a jointer that is, not a sharp rock) but
I'm only addressing the designed use of a jointer and the posters question.

However, if you have to make a comment, make it useful rather then a useless
noise on an obscure and complicated point. Describe how one goes about
accurately making two edges or faces parallel using a jointer.

--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"George" wrote in message
...
Nope, but if the user wants, he can use it to make it so.

"Mike G" wrote in message
...
A jointer will NOT make two edges or faces parallel

Repost

"George" wrote in
:

Think about what a jointer does. It removes the high spots. Since
the piece in question probably had a high spot either in the middle or
both ends, you would end up with opposite sides non-parallel.

My guess is he had a high spot in the center. There's a tendency,
when the high spot is in the middle, to joint a straight line
between the high point and the trailing end, and then reduce the
whole length to that line. Obviously that line is not parallel
to the original edge with the board.

As you suggest, drawing a line to find the high spot, and then
working that down first, is a good plan. For some reason, that's
an intuitive thing when using a hand plane, working the high
spots first.

John

SNIP
Now, if you get a
straight edge, scribe the opposite so you have a line parallel to your
straight edge. Lay a low spot on the outfeed gently, take off the high spot
following, work until the board is approximate, then run for straight, and
you'll get pretty parallel.

A jointer is a motorized plane, and the techniques used are similar.

Cut and past from a previous message in the thread. Just how do you figure
they made boards before dedicated thickness planers?

"Mike G" wrote in message
...

However, if you have to make a comment, make it useful rather then a
useless
noise on an obscure and complicated point. Describe how one goes about
accurately making two edges or faces parallel using a jointer.

--

This is normal. There is nothing for the second side to reference from. Why
would it be parallel to the first side?
"Fred McClellan" wrote in message
...
Hi all . . .

Yes, I don't know squat about jointers.

Never had a jointer before, and the only real reason I got it is
because I happened on a mother load of balsa in an estate sale. It's
all rough cut oversize, and I thought the jointer would be useful in
cleaning up the balsa, one of these days.

It's a Delta table top. Not a 'real' jointer, I know.

Read the book (such as it is), jumped through the hoops to check the
blades, and had to shim the output table so it was flat and even with
the input table when the cutter is cranked down below zero.

If I lay a metal straight edge across both tables, it rests flat all
along it's length. No gaps, no high spots.

I think that was ok to do.

Jointed the edge on a few balsa planks just to make sure the thing
worked (I build giant scale radio controlled model aircraft).

Trying to build the David Marks torsion box to use as a building
surface for major model airplane structures. The current model has a
6' fuselage, so I'm making the torsion box 30" x 6'. Anything larger
will eat too much floor space in my "shop".

Got the materials (the BORG ripped the MDF to 30" for me) ready to
cut.

First step is joint 2"x4"s to make a flat work surface to build the
tension box _on_.

Played with a bit of scrap 2x4, and don't understand what's going on.

I ran the 2x through on 1/32" depth until the edge of the 2x was
square over the length. Just playing, mind you.

Flipped the scrap 2x to the other edge and did the same thing.

Now the 2x is visibly tapered end-to-end.

I know the destructions for the torsion box say to joint one edge and
rip the other parallel, and that's not the problem.

I just don't understand why the scrap 2x wound up being very obviously
tapered.

Not feeding it correctly ? Failed to maintain constant down force ?

The scrap wasn't tapered before jointing, at least not that I could
see. It was 'semi-ok' scrap, nothing real ugly, ordinary borgstuff.

Or, is this a normal result of jointing both edges of a piece of wood
? The nature of the beast, as it were ?
Cheers,
Fred McClellan
the dash plumber at mindspring dot com

I teach it every year when new kids come in. Simply sighting the board is
usually enough to flag high spots for the first pass. If only there were
some way to do the job without having to retract the guard manually!

"John McCoy" wrote in message
. 11...
"George" wrote in
:

Think about what a jointer does. It removes the high spots.

As you suggest, drawing a line to find the high spot, and then
working that down first, is a good plan. For some reason, that's
an intuitive thing when using a hand plane, working the high
spots first.

John

"George" wrote in
:

I teach it every year when new kids come in. Simply sighting the
board is usually enough to flag high spots for the first pass. If
only there were some way to do the job without having to retract the
guard manually!

Well, there is the good ol' jack plane. I'll often take a few
swipes with a hand plane to get an obstinately shaped board
ready for power-jointing.

John