Building a new shop, 24 x 24. Floor will be concrete. How practical is
it to put electrical outlets in the floor for stationary machines, TS,
bandsaw, etc? If not in the floor how would one recommend getting
power to machines set in the middle of the shop. Are extension cords
practical for both 110 and 220?

I would run conduit across the ceiling and have recepticals hanging down
on cords.

I would thing that outlets in the floor would be a problem with sawdust
and dirt getting in the plugs. Of course, there are ways to prevent that.

wrote:
Building a new shop, 24 x 24. Floor will be concrete. How practical is
it to put electrical outlets in the floor for stationary machines, TS,
bandsaw, etc? If not in the floor how would one recommend getting
power to machines set in the middle of the shop. Are extension cords
practical for both 110 and 220?

wrote:
Building a new shop, 24 x 24. Floor will be concrete. How practical is
it to put electrical outlets in the floor for stationary machines, TS,
bandsaw, etc?

It's not practical, you want to make overhead cable drops.

Some General Electric LW busway, 3W, 30A, 250V will do a great job.

Can do same job with conduit, but it is a lot more work, and you can't
take it with you when you leave.

Allows you to have both 240V & 120V in the same busway run.

Disclaimer: I once sold this stuff by the mile, but haven't been
involved for many years.

Are extension cords
practical for both 110 and 220?

Yes.


Lew

I'm getting ready to build a shop too.

I'll be putting some outlets in the floor. I value the airspace
overhead too much to have power drops from above.

use conduit in the slab. if I think I can get away with it I'll also
run a couple of 4" sewer lines through the slab- one for dust
collection, the other to run an air hose through.

wrote:

Building a new shop, 24 x 24. Floor will be concrete. How practical is
it to put electrical outlets in the floor for stationary machines, TS,
bandsaw, etc?

If you must have your utilities in the concrete floor, then have the
concrete guys form a utility gutter in the floor, say 6"-8" wide, 3"-4"
deep, covered by a removable steel grate.

Lay conduits, water lines, airlines, whatever in the gutter, then cover
with grate.

You now have a way of servicing these utility feeds, if necessary.

Definitely a more costly type of construction.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote in
link.net:

If you must have your utilities in the concrete floor, then have the
concrete guys form a utility gutter in the floor, say 6"-8" wide,
3"-4" deep, covered by a removable steel grate.

Lay conduits, water lines, airlines, whatever in the gutter, then
cover with grate.

You now have a way of servicing these utility feeds, if necessary.

Definitely a more costly type of construction.

Lew


Sounds like a good idea. Do the grates have holes large enough for the
more temporary runs of things like air hoses and extension cords?

How many service calls do you think it would cost to justify the extra
cost?

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 20:40:58 -0700, wrote:
Building a new shop, 24 x 24. Floor will be concrete. How practical is
it to put electrical outlets in the floor for stationary machines, TS,
bandsaw, etc? If not in the floor how would one recommend getting
power to machines set in the middle of the shop. Are extension cords
practical for both 110 and 220?

How about putting in a wood floor above the concrete, with removable
sections so you can run and access wiring, dust collection and
compressed air under the floor?

I think that would be a little easier on your feet, too.

--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net

I juse went with the overhead route in my new woodshop. If your shop
doesn't double as a garage, then I see no problem with power in the
floor, other than the cost. If the floor is likely to ever get wet, I
see problems. Oh yeh--- my shop equipment is never in the position I
origianlly put it in when I built it. So, think carefully about power
outlet location or you will be tripping over cords even worse than with
extension cords from the wall.

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

wrote:
Building a new shop, 24 x 24. Floor will be concrete. How practical is
it to put electrical outlets in the floor for stationary machines, TS,
bandsaw, etc? If not in the floor how would one recommend getting
power to machines set in the middle of the shop. Are extension cords
practical for both 110 and 220?

If your table saw is going to be in a fixed position and not moved, and you
know where it will be, put a conduit in for it along with a tube for dust
removal.

Don't forget that the edges of the building will need to have conduits
installed in order to get the power lines, telephone, networking, cable TV,
water, drains and any thing else that you can think of. If you are
installing these lines underground you don't want to have to exit through
and down the outside of the wall if you can have the pipes and conduits
installed from underground through the concrete into the soleplate of the
wall -- keeps things much neater. As I mentioned above, install a rough-in
for virtually anything that you MAY or may not use at a later date. It will
simplify life later on if you want to actually add these things.
You never know what you will want in the future, enough options will make
the addition of something that doesn't even exist today much simpler.

I built a storage shed about 25 years ago with a couple of tubes installed
through the foundation for power or whatever. Two years ago I ran a power
line out to the shed, these tubes made for a simple installation. I was so
glad that I had installed them years ago.


wrote in message
...
Building a new shop, 24 x 24. Floor will be concrete. How practical is
it to put electrical outlets in the floor for stationary machines, TS,
bandsaw, etc? If not in the floor how would one recommend getting
power to machines set in the middle of the shop. Are extension cords
practical for both 110 and 220?

wrote in message
...
Building a new shop, 24 x 24. Floor will be concrete. How practical is
it to put electrical outlets in the floor for stationary machines, TS,
bandsaw, etc? If not in the floor how would one recommend getting
power to machines set in the middle of the shop. Are extension cords
practical for both 110 and 220?



I would not put outlets in the floor. My shop is 18 x 25, a bit smaller tha
yours will be and I strongly suggest that you still put all heavy equipment
on mobile bases. For my 220 volt tools I use a 30" 10 gauge extension cord
for my TS, BSm and Planer. IMHO the extenwion cord is very handy and easy
to deal with.

You can always have a lot of room available if you use mobile bases.
Currently I have my large machines around the perimeter of the room and
simply pull out the one that I need to use. At night my wife's car comes
in.

wrote in message
...
Building a new shop, 24 x 24. Floor will be concrete. How practical is
it to put electrical outlets in the floor for stationary machines, TS,
bandsaw, etc? If not in the floor how would one recommend getting
power to machines set in the middle of the shop. Are extension cords
practical for both 110 and 220?


Don't forget your **** tube.

The only shop that has a permanent layout is the one in the picture in a
book. I agree on drops from the ceiling. While my shop is in the basement,
all my drops 110 & 220 mid floor are from the ceiling. The one item that
most people forget is the small visitors to the shop. I have a disconnect
that allows me to kill the power to all the floor machines. This prevents
unwanted events when unsupervised folks wander in the shop during a party or
such. No one ever plans to have a accident. But it is just a little harder
to have one without power. A master kill switch by the door to the shop is a
one time expense. All the should haves, could haves, and would haves never
erase much. Good luck
Paul
wrote in message
...
Building a new shop, 24 x 24. Floor will be concrete. How practical is
it to put electrical outlets in the floor for stationary machines, TS,
bandsaw, etc? If not in the floor how would one recommend getting
power to machines set in the middle of the shop. Are extension cords
practical for both 110 and 220?

"goaway" wrote
The one item that most people forget is the small visitors to the shop. I
have a disconnect that allows me to kill the power to all the floor
machines. This prevents unwanted events when unsupervised folks wander in
the shop during a party or such. No one ever plans to have a accident. But
it is just a little harder to have one without power. A master kill switch
by the door to the shop is a one time expense. All the should haves, could
haves, and would haves never erase much.

I agree and have done this with more than one shop.

One idea that I saw carried this out even further. He had a master swith
that killed the intire shop. It had a lock on it. He kept having kids
"wander" into his shop. They even crawled into a window.

He put bars on the window and shut off all power. He also installed a much
better lock on the door. He said the kids soon lost interest if it was dark
and locked.

If I tried to do that as a youngster, I would have got a severe beating. But
that just isn't politically correct these days.

Puckdropper wrote:

Sounds like a good idea. Do the grates have holes large enough for the
more temporary runs of things like air hoses and extension cords?

How many service calls do you think it would cost to justify the extra
cost?

Use standard grating which is available in various size openings.

Grating can be either steel or fiberglass.

Lifting the grating on a regular basis would get to be a total PITA, in
a hurry, IMHO.

Lew

On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 20:40:58 -0700, wrote:

Building a new shop, 24 x 24. Floor will be concrete. How practical is
it to put electrical outlets in the floor for stationary machines, TS,
bandsaw, etc? If not in the floor how would one recommend getting
power to machines set in the middle of the shop. Are extension cords
practical for both 110 and 220?

It would be difficult to do in the first place and if you ever moved
the machines, you're stuck. Further, there is the issue of getting
the outlets clogged with sawdust. Probably your best idea is to
either drop power from the ceiling or have a moveable drop-pole for
power in your cluster of machines. That way, if you ever move
anything, you can just move the power along with it.

On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 05:44:06 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:

Definitely a more costly type of construction.

Possibly so, but it sure beats the s**t out of walking/tripping over
power/extension cords. I've had it both ways and there's no way I'd
voluntarily return to the wall plug arrangement.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

On 04 Jun 2007 09:21:25 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

How many service calls do you think it would cost to justify the extra
cost?

Forget service calls. The justification is in the convenience of not
having power cords (even with the little 'bridges') laying all over
the floor.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 04:17:58 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:

It's not practical, you want to make overhead cable drops.

I have to disagree. Completely practical. That's the way my shop is
set up, and I wouldn't have it any other way. IMO, overhead cable
drops are an even bigger nuisance than cords all over the floor going
to wall outlets. I even have my dust collection duct runs under the
floor to avoid the obstructions of stuff hanging from the ceiling.
Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

Tom Veatch wrote:


I have to disagree. Completely practical. That's the way my shop is
set up, and I wouldn't have it any other way. IMO, overhead cable
drops are an even bigger nuisance than cords all over the floor going
to wall outlets. I even have my dust collection duct runs under the
floor to avoid the obstructions of stuff hanging from the ceiling.

Whatever floats your boat.

Lew

In my past life, I was an architect and worked with a lot of manufacturing
plants and offices for a period of time.

Never put anything in a concrete floor unless absolutely unavoidable and
then still had problems:

1. Water and mess getting into the outlets. Solution, put them up on
pedestals above the floor line. Leads to problem 2.

2. No matter how carefully you located the outlet so it is covered by the
machine and not a hazard, the machine will be moved later just enough (8" or
so) to expose outlet and make it a tripping hazard. Same is true for
outlets under the desk.

3. It is almost impossible to add circuits and or make conduit bigger,
without jackhammering the concrete.

A trench in the floor is a PITA. A covered trench in the floor is a
slightly smaller PITA.

Take a look in a McDonald's kitchen. It's all drop cords, with twist lock
plugs.

If I rewired my shop, I'd do it like a theater lighting bridge.

I'd run a couple of conduits on the ceiling the length of the shop spaced
about 8' to 10' apart, with several circuits in them. About every 6-8' put
a 4-plex outlet for each circuit. Also have some screw eyes or something
similar to support cords.

To connect a machine, run a heavy duty cord up from the machine to the
nearest outlet, coil the extra cord, and hang it from the ceiling.
Obviously, locate the cords to they don't get caught in operations. When
its time to move, unplug and repeat the process.

Now you've got so much advice, I'm sure you are more confused than you were
before you posted.

Good on you for building a new shop!

Old Guy


wrote in message
...
Building a new shop, 24 x 24. Floor will be concrete. How practical is
it to put electrical outlets in the floor for stationary machines, TS,
bandsaw, etc? If not in the floor how would one recommend getting
power to machines set in the middle of the shop. Are extension cords
practical for both 110 and 220?

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...



If I tried to do that as a youngster, I would have got a severe beating.
But that just isn't politically correct these days.


No kidding. LOL. apparently not learning from your mistakes "IS"
politically correct these days.

Old guy wrote:

snip why not a trench

If I rewired my shop, I'd do it like a theater lighting bridge.

I'd run a couple of conduits on the ceiling the length of the shop
spaced
about 8' to 10' apart, with several circuits in them. About every
6-8' put
a 4-plex outlet for each circuit.
snip

By the time you get all that pipe and wire in place, you could have
had busway installed for the same $ and half the time.

Made a living winning that comparison discussion for many years almost
every time out of the box.

Matter of fact, don't remember losing one.


Lew

On Jun 3, 11:40 pm, wrote:
Building a new shop, 24 x 24. Floor will be concrete.

Listen to the architect. put your lighting circuit and power runs in
pipe in the ceiling and along the wall (about 40" above the floor for
the wall outlets). Put your lighting and the top two wall outlets on a
3-Way (4-way) switched circuit (so you can control the lighting and
transformers (battery chargers come to mind) from any entrance (I have
a switch on either side of the overhead door (for instance - talk
about lazy) as well as adjacent the "man" doors.

Also have a 220VAC Kill switch setup to keep the compressor from
disturbing the wife "People are sleeping!" she screams in the wee
hours.

I like the idea of running conduit under the slab, but have to admit
folks here dissuaded me.

The folks who suggest running cable and 10Base-T into the shop are my
kind of people. Also like the **** Tube suggestion - especially now
that I'm at that age! I piped in the stereo the other day "Ahhh,
Bach!." and intend to run coax and ethernet as well. Best time to do
it is when you first build out.

MOISTURE PROOF THE SLAB REGARDLESS!

Add an extra run of block height is nice, but raising the roof or
lowering an existing slab is tough work after the fact!

I like my windows high up for better ventilation - but no scientific
evidence on that. Privacy, yes. Neighbors' peace, maybe improved.

Not sure about running dust collection under a slab, however.
Temperature changes are likely to create condensation, no? Would this
not impede the desired flow? Result in blockage issues? I would think
the air laden with sawdust would be at a higher temp than the slab
(any buried pipes within) . . . Again, no scientific evidence nor
actual experience save with cold moist slab here!

Oh, yes, I suggest using plug-in fluorescent work lights. At about $9
for fixture and two bulbs (I buy 'em by the case), they are cheaper to
replace than a ballast. Instead of hard wired fixtures or Keyless, I
simply put in a duplex outlet with one side switched and another
always on. Then, each light fixture can serve as a ceiling drop (right
under the light!) and replacing a bad fixture is simply a matter of
unhooking the chains and pulling the plug.

"Twenty-four by Twenty-four" - "Hmmm, sure your name isn't "Norm?"

Good luck



How practical is
it to put electrical outlets in the floor for stationary machines, TS,
bandsaw, etc? If not in the floor how would one recommend getting
power to machines set in the middle of the shop. Are extension cords
practical for both 110 and 220?

"Old guy" wrote in message:
..
| Never put anything in a concrete floor unless absolutely unavoidable and
| then still had problems:

respectfully snipped|

Amen to every point you made. Nuff said

woodstuff

One thing I did in my shop was to put the outlets in the walls
up 4-1/2 feet. The electrical inspector said that while it was
legal, he was curious why they were that high. I explained that
I could lean 4 * 8 sheets against the walls and still get to the
outlets ... he replied "hey good idea -- I'm going to do that in
my shop!". Something to think about.

mikey

"spaco" wrote in message
.. .
I juse went with the overhead route in my new woodshop. If your shop
doesn't double as a garage, then I see no problem with power in the
floor, other than the cost. If the floor is likely to ever get wet, I
see problems. Oh yeh--- my shop equipment is never in the position I
origianlly put it in when I built it. So, think carefully about power
outlet location or you will be tripping over cords even worse than with
extension cords from the wall.

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

wrote:
Building a new shop, 24 x 24. Floor will be concrete. How practical
is
it to put electrical outlets in the floor for stationary machines,
TS,
bandsaw, etc? If not in the floor how would one recommend getting
power to machines set in the middle of the shop. Are extension cords
practical for both 110 and 220?

"woodstuff" wrote in message
...
"Old guy" wrote in message:
.
| Never put anything in a concrete floor unless absolutely unavoidable
and
| then still had problems:

respectfully snipped|

Amen to every point you made. Nuff said

woodstuff


Only thing I have ever put in a concrete floor that I was glad I did
was ... rebar :-)

mikey

Mike Fields, wrote the following at or about 6/8/2007 8:44 AM:
One thing I did in my shop was to put the outlets in the walls
up 4-1/2 feet. The electrical inspector said that while it was
legal, he was curious why they were that high. I explained that
I could lean 4 * 8 sheets against the walls and still get to the
outlets ... he replied "hey good idea -- I'm going to do that in
my shop!". Something to think about.

Hey, great minds think alike.g

To be honest, I never really gave it any conscious thought that I can
recall. I just seemed to me at the time, for a workshop, the ONLY place
to spot the outlets was mid-wall, where they would be easily accessible
over a workbench, stationary tool up against the wall, etc. Your logic
is just one more in a loooooong list of reasons to do it that way.

OTOH, out in the garage area - all the same construction project - I
mixed it up with the majority of the outlets being a foot off the floor
and the remainder at mid-wall.

"Mike Fields" spam_me_not_mr.gadget2@comcastDOTnet writes:

"woodstuff" wrote in message
...
"Old guy" wrote in message:
.
| Never put anything in a concrete floor unless absolutely unavoidable
and
| then still had problems:

respectfully snipped|

Amen to every point you made. Nuff said

woodstuff


Only thing I have ever put in a concrete floor that I was glad I did
was ... rebar :-)

mikey


I'd be tempted to pick up a surplus computer room floor (tiles and supports),
if the price were right.

They're designed to hold a great deal of weight, and give you enough room
beneath to route both dust collection and power (fluidtite or eq. flex conduit).

And the suction cups are fun to play with :-)

scott

In article , wrote:

I'd be tempted to pick up a surplus computer room floor (tiles and supports),
if the price were right.

They're designed to hold a great deal of weight, and give you enough room
beneath to route both dust collection and power (fluidtite or eq. flex
conduit).

And they're hard as stone. *Damned* uncomfortable to stand on for any length
of time. Fatigue mats are a must, just like they would be on concrete.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article ,
Scott Lurndal wrote:

I'd be tempted to pick up a surplus computer room floor (tiles and supports),
if the price were right.

I've seen it available (not recently -- not in those circles these days) at
prices of 'you haul it _all_ away'.` Isn't necessarily as good a deal as it
sounds like -- the base of the risers is usually cemented to the floor; just
removing them is a job-and-a-half. getting them up 'intact' is virtually
*impossible*.

They're designed to hold a great deal of weight, and give you enough room
beneath to route both dust collection and power (fluidtite or eq. flex conduit).

And the suction cups are fun to play with :-)

One *does* tend to get strange looks, at least from the uninitiated, when you
ask what they did with the 'keys to the floor'. grin

And you _don't_ get into that space without a key. The only good news is
that all the floors like that _are_ "keyed alike" -- getting a replacement
key is no big deal except for the cost.

That is an *excellent* idea. You, my friend, are very smart.

--
Bob the Tomato


On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 06:44:51 -0700, "Mike Fields"
spam_me_not_mr.gadget2@comcastDOTnet wrote:

One thing I did in my shop was to put the outlets in the walls
up 4-1/2 feet. The electrical inspector said that while it was
legal, he was curious why they were that high. I explained that
I could lean 4 * 8 sheets against the walls and still get to the
outlets ... he replied "hey good idea -- I'm going to do that in
my shop!". Something to think about.

mikey

"spaco" wrote in message
. ..
I juse went with the overhead route in my new woodshop. If your shop
doesn't double as a garage, then I see no problem with power in the
floor, other than the cost. If the floor is likely to ever get wet, I
see problems. Oh yeh--- my shop equipment is never in the position I
origianlly put it in when I built it. So, think carefully about power
outlet location or you will be tripping over cords even worse than with
extension cords from the wall.

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

wrote:
Building a new shop, 24 x 24. Floor will be concrete. How practical
is
it to put electrical outlets in the floor for stationary machines,
TS,
bandsaw, etc? If not in the floor how would one recommend getting
power to machines set in the middle of the shop. Are extension cords
practical for both 110 and 220?