I posted a few photos over on news:alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking
but am aware that not everyone has access to the alt.binaries
hierarchy. For those who don't, and for anyone who'd like to see a bit
more of the project, I've put the whole collection of photos (and a
bit of text) on a web page at the link below.

Making these things is my "day job", so there aren't any plans or
how-to but there's enough visible to provide a few ideas for anyone
who might like to build their own.

Warning: I've shrunk all photos to 640x480, but the page may still
take a while to load.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/SC_Madison.html

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
I posted a few photos over on news:alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking
but am aware that not everyone has access to the alt.binaries
hierarchy. For those who don't, and for anyone who'd like to see a bit
more of the project, I've put the whole collection of photos (and a
bit of text) on a web page at the link below.

It seems as though he could have put a lot more solar heaters on that wall.

Just how much heat is he going to get out of this installation?

Lee Michaels wrote:
| "Morris Dovey" wrote in message
| ...
|| I posted a few photos over on
|| news:alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking but am aware that not
|| everyone has access to the alt.binaries hierarchy. For those who
|| don't, and for anyone who'd like to see a bit more of the project,
|| I've put the whole collection of photos (and a bit of text) on a
|| web page at the link below.
||
| It seems as though he could have put a lot more solar heaters on
| that wall.

There was room for one more (where the window is located), but he
really wanted to be able to look out on the pond and livestock.

| Just how much heat is he going to get out of this installation?

He's going to be getting a _lot_ of heat - probably enough that he'll
be intentionally trading heat for fresh air on clear midwinter days.
On the not-so-clear days he should be comfortable during the daylight
and early evening hours.

The construction crew was amazed by the force and temperature of the
airflow, but the fact is that the potential drops off fairly rapidly
around the time of the vernal equinox. I suggested they return for a
look-see sometime around the winter solstice, when output will be at
its maximum. They had a bit of difficulty accepting that the output
might be almost doubled. :-)

The plan is to add a couple of slow-turning ceiling fans to push the
warmest air down to warm the shop floor (which will serve as a sort of
"thermal flywheel") to extend the warm hours during winter.

Because the panel is mounted vertically, output will be negligible
close to the summer solstice.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

On Mar 31, 11:55 am, "Morris Dovey" wrote:
Lee Michaels wrote:

| "Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
|| I posted a few photos over on
|| news:alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking but am aware that not
|| everyone has access to the alt.binaries hierarchy. For those who
|| don't, and for anyone who'd like to see a bit more of the project,
|| I've put the whole collection of photos (and a bit of text) on a
|| web page at the link below.
||
| It seems as though he could have put a lot more solar heaters on
| that wall.

There was room for one more (where the window is located), but he
really wanted to be able to look out on the pond and livestock.

| Just how much heat is he going to get out of this installation?

He's going to be getting a _lot_ of heat - probably enough that he'll
be intentionally trading heat for fresh air on clear midwinter days.
On the not-so-clear days he should be comfortable during the daylight
and early evening hours.

The construction crew was amazed by the force and temperature of the
airflow, but the fact is that the potential drops off fairly rapidly
around the time of the vernal equinox. I suggested they return for a
look-see sometime around the winter solstice, when output will be at
its maximum. They had a bit of difficulty accepting that the output
might be almost doubled. :-)

The plan is to add a couple of slow-turning ceiling fans to push the
warmest air down to warm the shop floor (which will serve as a sort of
"thermal flywheel") to extend the warm hours during winter.

Because the panel is mounted vertically, output will be negligible
close to the summer solstice.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

Morris,
Thank you for posting such interesting pictures of your solar
installation. It looks like an excellent piece of work and I'm sure
your customer will be a beneficiary of future lower utility bills.
Its one small step on the path to make our country less dependent on
imported fossil fuel.
Joe G

GROVER wrote:

| Thank you for posting such interesting pictures of your solar
| installation. It looks like an excellent piece of work and I'm sure
| your customer will be a beneficiary of future lower utility bills.
| Its one small step on the path to make our country less dependent on
| imported fossil fuel.

I'm fairly proud of this installation. Iowa farmers (like farmers
everywhere, I suspect) are very careful about any move away from what
they /know/ works. This customer installed a geothermal heating unit
in his ~3K sqft home and claims that his highest monthly heating cost
over the past two years was $29 (a year ago January) - and he was
courageous enough to be the "guinea pig" for a new panel design. It
knocked my socks off that he was willing to tell me that he was
well-satisfied within a half-hour of a March installation.

Solar heating isn't free (a friendly nod to JClarke here), but the
energy used /is/. I'm not much of an eco-freak, although it might seem
otherwise - but I'm all for anything that harmlessly and inexpensively
improves the quality of life for everyone.

It's not about "big steps" - it's all about small steps - and it's not
so much about where petroleum comes from as the fact that there's only
a finite supply of the stuff and the that supply is being consumed at
a globally accelerating rate. The geopolitics is a result of the
supply situation - not vice versa.

The performance of these two panels is the result of some 35 years of
small steps - small steps like using highly reflective aluminum ribbon
in the heat absorber and /using/ that reflectivity to trap energy,
like bending and spacing that ribbon to trap _all_ wavelengths from RF
to IR, and choosing ribbon dimensions that provide a "black body"
behavior aimed at imparting the absorbed energy to air molecules in an
optimized fashion...with all the limitations of a wood shop with
low-precision tooling and low-cost materials. (I never claimed I don't
enjoy challenges. g)

Lower utility bills? Not a chance! What I've done is provide the
warmth he wanted so he can walk in, turn on the lights, fire up the
dust collection system, and run his multi-horsepower tools when it
might otherwise be too uncomfortable to work in the shop. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

On Mar 31, 1:55 pm, "Morris Dovey" wrote:
GROVER wrote:

| Thank you for posting such interesting pictures of your solar
| installation. It looks like an excellent piece of work and I'm sure
| your customer will be a beneficiary of future lower utility bills.
| Its one small step on the path to make our country less dependent on
| imported fossil fuel.

I'm fairly proud of this installation. Iowa farmers (like farmers
everywhere, I suspect) are very careful about any move away from what
they /know/ works. This customer installed a geothermal heating unit
in his ~3K sqft home and claims that his highest monthly heating cost
over the past two years was $29 (a year ago January) - and he was
courageous enough to be the "guinea pig" for a new panel design. It
knocked my socks off that he was willing to tell me that he was
well-satisfied within a half-hour of a March installation.

Solar heating isn't free (a friendly nod to JClarke here), but the
energy used /is/. I'm not much of an eco-freak, although it might seem
otherwise - but I'm all for anything that harmlessly and inexpensively
improves the quality of life for everyone.

It's not about "big steps" - it's all about small steps - and it's not
so much about where petroleum comes from as the fact that there's only
a finite supply of the stuff and the that supply is being consumed at
a globally accelerating rate. The geopolitics is a result of the
supply situation - not vice versa.

The performance of these two panels is the result of some 35 years of
small steps - small steps like using highly reflective aluminum ribbon
in the heat absorber and /using/ that reflectivity to trap energy,
like bending and spacing that ribbon to trap _all_ wavelengths from RF
to IR, and choosing ribbon dimensions that provide a "black body"
behavior aimed at imparting the absorbed energy to air molecules in an
optimized fashion...with all the limitations of a wood shop with
low-precision tooling and low-cost materials. (I never claimed I don't
enjoy challenges. g)

Lower utility bills? Not a chance! What I've done is provide the
warmth he wanted so he can walk in, turn on the lights, fire up the
dust collection system, and run his multi-horsepower tools when it
might otherwise be too uncomfortable to work in the shop. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

The portion of utility bills I refer to are dedicated only to comfort
heating. Any electical usage for ww tools, lighting etc. would be
independent of that amount. The total electrical energy measured at
the meter should be somewhat less than it would have been if the user
had electrical or gas fired comfort heat. The saving per billing
cycle can be layed off against the capital investment of the solar
equipment to determine a payout period. I am not an accountant but I
believe there are some tax advantages for the purchaser of such
equipment.
Unfortunately it does matter where the petroleum comes from since we
import so much foreign oil we must endure the vagaries of the
countries of origen and the economic problems that come from the
balance of payments.
This sounds like a heavy load to put on the back of your solar
devices. But as I originally said you have taken a small step in the
right direction. You said you were proud of your work, as well you
should be. From the photos it appears to be well made with a very
professional look about it.
Joe G

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 11:55:09 -0600, "Morris Dovey"
wrote:

....snip
Solar heating isn't free (a friendly nod to JClarke here), but the
energy used /is/. I'm not much of an eco-freak, although it might seem
otherwise - but I'm all for anything that harmlessly and inexpensively
improves the quality of life for everyone.

It's not about "big steps" - it's all about small steps - and it's not
so much about where petroleum comes from as the fact that there's only
a finite supply of the stuff and the that supply is being consumed at
a globally accelerating rate. The geopolitics is a result of the
supply situation - not vice versa.
... more snip

I think that pretty much reflects a practical approach. I fully support
cost-competitive alternate approaches that work. Therein lies the rub with
most alternatives thus far, either 1) they are not cost competitive (or
only will be if no maintenance is required and they last 20 years) or 2)
they don't perform as well as what they are replacing -- either they don't
provide the same quantity or require significant intervention and work on
the part of the user.

Looks like the panels you are putting in place are definitely addressing
problem #2, and most likely pretty close to fixing problem #1.



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If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

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