Hi,

Does any one know of a site where you can roughly work out how mush money
you will save with solar panels. We are thinking of getting them put we need
to work how much we will save and how many years it would take to get the
money back.

Thanks

Nigel


--

Winter and Summer holidays in the alps!!!
www.austrianfamilyholidays.co.uk

On 23 Sep 2006 11:29:56 +0200 someone who may be "Nigel"
wrote this:-

Does any one know of a site where you can roughly work out how mush money
you will save with solar panels. We are thinking of getting them put we need
to work how much we will save and how many years it would take to get the
money back.

If you are only considering simple payback then if you DIY it will
probably take a decade to recoup the expenditure at current gas
prices. In terms of money there are other things to do first.

However, there are other reasons to install solar water heating.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 23 Sep 2006 11:29:56 +0200, "Nigel" wrote:

Hi,

Does any one know of a site where you can roughly work out how mush money
you will save with solar panels. We are thinking of getting them put we need
to work how much we will save and how many years it would take to get the
money back.



http://www.navitron.org.uk/
They've now got a forum
--
Get away from it all
http://www.travelfreebies.co.uk/thomson-holidays.htm
Late deals, mega cheap flights and bargains

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 23 Sep 2006 11:29:56 +0200 someone who may be "Nigel"
wrote this:-

Does any one know of a site where you can roughly work out how mush money
you will save with solar panels. We are thinking of getting them put we
need
to work how much we will save and how many years it would take to get the
money back.

If you are only considering simple payback then if you DIY it will
probably take a decade to recoup the expenditure at current gas
prices. In terms of money there are other things to do first.
...

Predicting future energy prices is also a good game.

-- JJ

Nigel wrote in message ...
Hi,

Does any one know of a site where you can roughly work out how mush money
you will save with solar panels. We are thinking of getting them put we
need
to work how much we will save and how many years it would take to get the
money back.

Thanks

Nigel


--

Winter and Summer holidays in the alps!!!
www.austrianfamilyholidays.co.uk




There used to be useful stuff on this stite, I've not checked for a few
years though

http://www.cat.org.uk/information/in...&subdir=inform
ation



---
A pictorial appreciation of the work of local Southampton architect Herbert
Collins
http://www.diversed.fsnet.co.uk/hc.htm
and buried in the file, linked to at the end of that file, some pics of
mathematical tiles and Fareham/Bishop's Waltham terra cotta chimney pots etc

"Nigel" wrote in message ...
Hi,

Does any one know of a site where you can roughly work out how mush money
you will save with solar panels. We are thinking of getting them put we
need to work how much we will save and how many years it would take to get
the money back.

Thanks

Nigel

The consensus seems to be ( dons tin helmet ) that these things will never
pay for themselves if installed professionally. One might as well take the
umpteen thousand and put it in the bank at 5%. I've seen costs of £13,000
mentioned! That'd return
£650/year at 5% not including the effects of compounding. Try and squeeze
£650/year out of a solar panel(s), and you lose your capital as well.

Even installation costs of half that could still not recoup the outlay.

The way to evaluate these things is to see what the annual saving is as a
percentage of initial outlay, expressed as a percentage. Would you put your
money in a bank that returned 1% or 2% and kept the capital ?

I would say the only way to get a decent return is if you DIY the lot, with
a good situation i.e. a south facing roof.

As has been mentioned, if you want strategic isolation from the vagaries of
the gas and electric supply, that's another thing altogether.

Nigel wrote:

Hi,

Does any one know of a site where you can roughly work out how mush money
you will save with solar panels. We are thinking of getting them put we need
to work how much we will save and how many years it would take to get the
money back.

Thanks

Nigel


You forgot to say which type of solar panels, PV, hot water or space
heating. PV will never pay its cost back, unless youre a long way from
the grid, HW can if its well enough designed, a lot of systems dont,
and space heating is the one with the lowest cost and highest return.

Re a ready calculator site, there is no way the technology is nearly
simple enough to do that. There are so many design choices, it depends
on the house etc etc etc etc. The nearest I've found is
news:alt.solar-thermal, where at least they can give you some guidance
with making choices and working it all out.


NT

"Andy" wrote in message
...

"Nigel" wrote in message ...
Hi,

Does any one know of a site where you can roughly work out how mush money
you will save with solar panels. We are thinking of getting them put we
need to work how much we will save and how many years it would take to
get the money back.

Thanks

Nigel

The consensus seems to be ( dons tin helmet ) that these things will never
pay for themselves if installed professionally.

The question isn't specific about what is meant by 'solar panels'. It could
mean pv, which isn't economical in Britain, if solar water heating panels is
meant it IS economical.

Solar water heating panels wouldn't pay on your figures but they don't have
to cost anything like that - ours didn't.

One might as well take the umpteen thousand and put it in the bank at 5%.
I've seen costs of £13,000 mentioned!

That's ridiculous.

That'd return
£650/year at 5% not including the effects of compounding. Try and squeeze
£650/year out of a solar panel(s), and you lose your capital as well.

Even installation costs of half that could still not recoup the outlay.

Ours was a sixth of that price. I think you've been watching television :-)

....

I would say the only way to get a decent return is if you DIY the lot,
with a good situation i.e. a south facing roof.

a) this IS a DIY group, installation isn't difficult.

b) of course a south facing aspect with no shading is the best, it wouldn't
be suitable to use any other site.

I'm VERY enthusiastic about our system, it's been working since January and
we've hardly used the boiler at all in that time. The meter reading was
queried because it was so low. Today isn't warm and it's been raining but we
have a large cylinder full of water at 40.7 C - a very useful temperature.
Even when the sun doesn't shine there's a noticeable heat gain. When the sun
shines even though the air temperature is low the water is heated.

It's sensible to organise water use to take advantage of the heating, for
instance by washing clothes at night rather than in the morning, when there
will have been a small drop in temperature.

Mary

David Hansen wrote:
On 23 Sep 2006 11:29:56 +0200 someone who may be "Nigel"
wrote this:-

Does any one know of a site where you can roughly work out how mush
money you will save with solar panels. We are thinking of getting
them put we need to work how much we will save and how many years it
would take to get the money back.

If you are only considering simple payback then if you DIY it will
probably take a decade to recoup the expenditure at current gas
prices. In terms of money there are other things to do first.

However, there are other reasons to install solar water heating.

Please enlarge on this! We have double glazing; draught proofing; a full
layer of insulation in the attic. What do you suggest now, before going for
solar panels?

And what are those other reasons?

Take care,

--

John

"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...

Please enlarge on this! We have double glazing; draught proofing; a full
layer of insulation in the attic. What do you suggest now, before going
for solar panels?

Insulate the walls.. very effective.

"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...
David Hansen wrote:
On 23 Sep 2006 11:29:56 +0200 someone who may be "Nigel"
wrote this:-

Does any one know of a site where you can roughly work out how mush
money you will save with solar panels. We are thinking of getting
them put we need to work how much we will save and how many years it
would take to get the money back.

If you are only considering simple payback then if you DIY it will
probably take a decade to recoup the expenditure at current gas
prices. In terms of money there are other things to do first.

However, there are other reasons to install solar water heating.

Please enlarge on this! We have double glazing; draught proofing; a full
layer of insulation in the attic. What do you suggest now, before going
for solar panels?

And what are those other reasons?

What BiBoffin said, cavity wall insulation. For instance, a gas heated semi
can get cavity wall insulation for £260: for other circumstances have a look
at the sites that abound.

Using my criterion of equivalent interest rate, cavity wall insulation has
to save
5% of £260 per annum to compete with the bank ( more if you want your
capital back in the end ). Now cavity wall insulation is guaranteed for 25
years, lets say it does what it says on the tin, you want about an extra £10
back per annum on top of the 5% to recoup your capital outlay. 5% of £260 is
£13, so adding £13 and £10 we need to save £23 per annum to break even.

The figures for a typical cavity wall that are given is about 35% of the
heat loss of a house. It could be more if the loft is well insulated and the
windows are double glazed and the leaks are sealed.

Anyway, let's also assume £400 per annum heating gas bills. I think I spend
something like that, it's unlikely to be too far off. That means perhaps
£130 of the heating bill is leaving through the walls each year. We need to
save £23 of that to break even, so unless cavity wall insulation is really
inefficient I reckon it's a no brainer that cavity wall insulation will not
only break even but may well be in profit in as little as 5 years.

OK, I plucked a lot of those figures out of thin air, but you see the method
I'm employing to make a decision.

If solar waterheating can come in well below the figures I've heard talked
about, then maybe it can be worthwhile, but I would like someone to present
a set of figures to me detailing capital outlay and return in energy savings
that exceeds 5%/annum and returns your capital in 25 years.

Noone is claiming solar water heating doesn't work, merely the economics of
it.

As I said, having looked at a few solar power websites, the only way to make
it economic seems to be to do it DIY, the OP never said he was going to do
it DIY, nor what the expected cost was. As a TV programme recently showed,
some people are being conned into solar heating systems which are expensive,
unsuitable for them ( east-west roof etc ) and can never deliver the savings
claimed.

regards,

Andy.

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 16:10:39 GMT, Bioboffin wrote:

And what are those other reasons?

One is reducing the amount of fossil fuel you use. You don't say how you
curently heat your water but it's probably a pretty safe assumption that
you burn a fossil fuel (gas or oil) localy. If electricity most of that
is generated by burning a fossil fuel...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Thanks for all the feedback. The problem we have got is that we live in the
Alps so the sunlight in the winter is quite short as soon as it dips below
the mountain the sun is gone.

However we do have a south facing roof so it does get a fair bit of sun.
How does the snow affect it??

thanks again


Nigel

--

Winter and Summer holidays in the alps!!!
www.austrianfamilyholidays.co.uk

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:36:47 GMT someone who may be "Jason"
wrote this:-

Predicting future energy prices is also a good game.

They have been going upwards for a long time. There has been the
occasional downward movement for a while, but the trend upwards.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 24 Sep 2006 08:47:35 +0200 someone who may be "Nigel"
wrote this:-

How does the snow affect it??

Depends how much show there is. A UK group is probably not the place
to ask about this.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 16:10:39 GMT someone who may be "Bioboffin"
wrote this:-

Please enlarge on this! We have double glazing; draught proofing; a full
layer of insulation in the attic. What do you suggest now, before going for
solar panels?

Others have mentioned the walls. There is also the question of the
floors. Having sealed up the house tightly you might like to
consider total house ventilation, with heat recovery. It may be that
a wood burning stove would provide useful heat input too. You didn't
say how the water is currently heated.

Don't be fooled by advocates of solar space heating. It may work
well in a location where there are cold nights and sunlit days.
However there are few deserts in the UK. In the UK solar space
heating can reduce the load on other forms of heating during spring
and autumn, but it is not an all year system. If you have a suitable
house a passive design, can be added on, but don't expect too much.

You also need to consider hot water consumption. Have you minimised
this? Are the hot water pipes insulated and the runs minimised?

Electricity generating panels are still uneconomic if measured on
simple payback, or discounted cash flow. However, this will change.

And what are those other reasons?

Reducing carbon emissions, reducing reliance on external supplies,
doing one's bit, a warm green feeling. There can be many reasons,
everyone is different.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Bioboffin wrote:
David Hansen wrote:
On 23 Sep 2006 11:29:56 +0200 someone who may be "Nigel"
wrote this:-

Does any one know of a site where you can roughly work out how mush
money you will save with solar panels. We are thinking of getting
them put we need to work how much we will save and how many years it
would take to get the money back.

If you are only considering simple payback then if you DIY it will
probably take a decade to recoup the expenditure at current gas
prices. In terms of money there are other things to do first.

However, there are other reasons to install solar water heating.

Please enlarge on this! We have double glazing; draught proofing; a
full layer of insulation in the attic. What do you suggest now,
before going for solar panels?

And what are those other reasons?


Thanks to all who replied to this. We have a problem with cavity wall
insulation because the house has a wood frame, and I understand that cavity
wall insulation is not an option for us. We heat the house using a (newish)
gas boiler, and fuel bills are quite low (£70/month for gas and electricity
combined) - for a semi. As we are expecting to move in a few years time, it
would not be cost-effective for us to install some kind of solar system.

"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...

Thanks to all who replied to this. We have a problem with cavity wall
insulation because the house has a wood frame, and I understand that
cavity wall insulation is not an option for us.

I thought that modern timber framed houses had wall insulation built in.

We heat the house using a (newish) gas boiler, and fuel bills are quite
low (£70/month for gas and electricity combined) - for a semi.

That's not LOW!

As we are expecting to move in a few years time, it would not be
cost-effective for us to install some kind of solar system.

It would probably increase the value of your house and save money for you in
the meantime.

Mary

"Nigel" wrote in message ...
Thanks for all the feedback. The problem we have got is that we live in
the Alps so the sunlight in the winter is quite short as soon as it dips
below the mountain the sun is gone.

However we do have a south facing roof so it does get a fair bit of sun.
How does the snow affect it??

It will block the sunlight until it melts. The snow on the panel might melt
more quickly than that on the rest of the roof.

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...

Thanks to all who replied to this. We have a problem with cavity wall
insulation because the house has a wood frame, and I understand that
cavity wall insulation is not an option for us.

I thought that modern timber framed houses had wall insulation built
in.
Ours does, but apparently the amount put in varies quite a lot. There is a
minimum standard which is fairly inadequate.

We heat the house using a (newish) gas boiler, and fuel bills are
quite low (£70/month for gas and electricity combined) - for a semi.

That's not LOW!

Until three months ago, we were paying £40/month (for both), but the
supplier bumped it up a bit probably in anticipation of higher bills
following recent fuel increases. We probably actually use somewhere around
£50/month over the year as a whole. Apparently the average bill in the UK
last February was £68/month, so we are using less than average. Hence the
word 'low'.

As we are expecting to move in a few years time, it would not be
cost-effective for us to install some kind of solar system.

It would probably increase the value of your house and save money for
you in the meantime.

You have a point, but I'm not yet convinced that it would be a
cost-effective improvement for us. I suspect that most house buyers tend to
be more impressed by modern-looking kitchens than by solar cells on the
roof.

--

John

"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...

You have a point, but I'm not yet convinced that it would be a
cost-effective improvement for us. I suspect that most house buyers tend
to be more impressed by modern-looking kitchens than by solar cells on the
roof.

What exactly do you mean by solar cells?

Are you talking about solar water heatinig or pv panels?

Mary

--

John

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...

You have a point, but I'm not yet convinced that it would be a
cost-effective improvement for us. I suspect that most house buyers
tend to be more impressed by modern-looking kitchens than by solar
cells on the roof.

What exactly do you mean by solar cells?

Are you talking about solar water heatinig or pv panels?


I wasn't really drawing a distinction. I guess that currently solar water
heating is the more usual, because it is cheaper to install. On the other
hand, you can end up with overheated water in the summer.

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 11:05:29 GMT someone who may be "Bioboffin"
wrote this:-

I wasn't really drawing a distinction. I guess that currently solar water
heating is the more usual, because it is cheaper to install. On the other
hand, you can end up with overheated water in the summer.

Only if the system is badly designed and/or installed.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 2006-09-24 12:05:29 +0100, "Bioboffin" said:

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...

You have a point, but I'm not yet convinced that it would be a
cost-effective improvement for us. I suspect that most house buyers
tend to be more impressed by modern-looking kitchens than by solar
cells on the roof.

What exactly do you mean by solar cells?

Are you talking about solar water heatinig or pv panels?


I wasn't really drawing a distinction. I guess that currently solar
water heating is the more usual, because it is cheaper to install. On
the other hand, you can end up with overheated water in the summer.

Notwithstanding that they are plug ugly and ruin the exterior
appearance of a property almost as much as stone cladding.

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 10:59:06 GMT, Bioboffin wrote:

You have a point, but I'm not yet convinced that it would be a
cost-effective improvement for us. I suspect that most house buyers
tend to be more impressed by modern-looking kitchens than by solar
cells on the roof.

Modern kitchen, bathroom etc fall into the "decoration" category for me
and are very much down to individuals tastes. Certainly estate agents
rarely recomend spending any money on those things if you're intending to
sell. The "blank slate" is more attractive that some new and flash that
isn't in the buyers taste range.

Thermal Solar panels and a reasonable control system would be a good
positive selling point IMHO.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...

You have a point, but I'm not yet convinced that it would be a
cost-effective improvement for us. I suspect that most house buyers
tend to be more impressed by modern-looking kitchens than by solar
cells on the roof.

What exactly do you mean by solar cells?

Are you talking about solar water heatinig or pv panels?


I wasn't really drawing a distinction.

There are huge distinctions!

I guess that currently solar water heating is the more usual, because it
is cheaper to install.

No, it's because it's efficient in Britain, which PV can't match.

On the other hand, you can end up with overheated water in the summer.

Can you???

What makes you say that?

Mary

Nigel wrote:

Thanks for all the feedback. The problem we have got is that we live in the
Alps so the sunlight in the winter is quite short as soon as it dips below
the mountain the sun is gone.

However we do have a south facing roof so it does get a fair bit of sun.
How does the snow affect it??

thanks again


Nigel

For roof mounted panels, snow will prevent any output at all, as it
blocks the light. For wall mounted panels, snow increases output since
you've got sun and skylight bouncing off the snow onto the panel as
well as direct light.


NT

David Hansen wrote:
On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 16:10:39 GMT someone who may be "Bioboffin"
wrote this:-

Please enlarge on this! We have double glazing; draught proofing; a full
layer of insulation in the attic. What do you suggest now, before going for
solar panels?

drain heat exchangers can pay back fairly well, though maybe not if you
have to take the bath out to get one in. HRV is worth a look too.


Don't be fooled by advocates of solar space heating.

It'll be interesting to hear you explain that.

It may work
well in a location where there are cold nights and sunlit days.
However there are few deserts in the UK.

Night time temperature has nothing to do with it, nor does the absence
or presence of a desert. The relevant difference between desert
conditions and our winters is direct vs diffuse sunlight. Flat panels
work with diffused light. To achieve good temp gains the design may
need to be slightly different, but not by much. The same process is
going on, and in either case the same big advantage of space heating is
there, the high panel efficiency.


In the UK solar space
heating can reduce the load on other forms of heating during spring
and autumn, but it is not an all year system.

Why do you think panels can not work in winter? Its fairly basic
science. Certainly there will be more output at the ends of the heating
season than the middle, this is true for all solar thermal systems.


If you have a suitable
house a passive design, can be added on, but don't expect too much.

Surely what you get depends on what solar system you design and build?
How does house design affect the panel output? It doesnt, as long as
the panels point the right direction.


You also need to consider hot water consumption.

Yes... and thats precisely why space heating yields more return. Theres
only so much DHW a house uses. Much more space heating energy is used,
thus much bigger potential paybacks are available there. Plus setup
cost is much lower.


Electricity generating panels are still uneconomic if measured on
simple payback, or discounted cash flow. However, this will change.

I hope it will change greatly one day, but it isnt likely to be any
time soon. There is nothing significant in the research pipeline.
Energy prices wont change the equation by a lot, as the cost of system
purchase depends on energy cost.


NT

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...

You have a point, but I'm not yet convinced that it would be a
cost-effective improvement for us. I suspect that most house buyers
tend to be more impressed by modern-looking kitchens than by solar
cells on the roof.

What exactly do you mean by solar cells?

Are you talking about solar water heatinig or pv panels?


I wasn't really drawing a distinction.

There are huge distinctions!

I guess that currently solar water heating is the more usual,
because it is cheaper to install.

No, it's because it's efficient in Britain, which PV can't match.

On the other hand, you can end up with overheated water in the
summer.

Can you???

What makes you say that?

Personal experience.

"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...

You have a point, but I'm not yet convinced that it would be a
cost-effective improvement for us. I suspect that most house buyers
tend to be more impressed by modern-looking kitchens than by solar
cells on the roof.

What exactly do you mean by solar cells?

Are you talking about solar water heatinig or pv panels?


I wasn't really drawing a distinction.

There are huge distinctions!

I guess that currently solar water heating is the more usual,
because it is cheaper to install.

No, it's because it's efficient in Britain, which PV can't match.

On the other hand, you can end up with overheated water in the
summer.

Can you???

What makes you say that?

Personal experience.

It hasn't been ours even in this year's very high temperatures. I think
you've had the wrong type.

On 24 Sep 2006 06:46:37 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-

Why do you think panels can not work in winter?

Please indicate where I said they do not work in winter.

The question is how well their output matches heating demand.

Its fairly basic science.

It is a matter of engineering rather than science.

Certainly there will be more output at the ends of the heating
season than the middle, this is true for all solar thermal systems.

I'm glad you have now adopted this more realistic line, rather than
your earlier one that such systems would heat all of a building all
year round in the UK.

Yes... and thats precisely why space heating yields more return.

Assuming it does.

Theres only so much DHW a house uses.

Indeed, which is why matching is important.

Much more space heating energy is used,

Correct.

thus much bigger potential paybacks are available there.

That does not necessarily follow.

Plus setup cost is much lower.

Perhaps, if one is converting a wooden barn in a desert. However, a
UK building is rather different.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:20:15 GMT someone who may be "Bioboffin"
wrote this:-

What makes you say that?

Personal experience.

Overheated water in the summer means the system was badly designed
and/or installed. Which was it in the system(s) you are thinking of?


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:23:28 +0100 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

Notwithstanding that they are plug ugly

In your opinion. Not everybody shares it.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 24 Sep 2006 06:18:51 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-

For roof mounted panels, snow will prevent any output at all, as it
blocks the light.

Thick snow will. Thin snow will probably not, for various reasons.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 2006-09-24 16:50:05 +0100, David Hansen
said:

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:23:28 +0100 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

Notwithstanding that they are plug ugly

In your opinion. Not everybody shares it.

You think they're things of beauty?

The most likely outcome is that the house would become harder to sell
to people who think that they are ugly or will complicate the heating
system, which are probably the majority. Perhaps they might appeal
to geeks.

At best, saleability would have been reduced for little or no ROI.

Pointless in other words.

Mary Fisher wrote:
"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...

You have a point, but I'm not yet convinced that it would be a
cost-effective improvement for us. I suspect that most house
buyers tend to be more impressed by modern-looking kitchens than
by solar cells on the roof.

What exactly do you mean by solar cells?

Are you talking about solar water heatinig or pv panels?


I wasn't really drawing a distinction.

There are huge distinctions!

I guess that currently solar water heating is the more usual,
because it is cheaper to install.

No, it's because it's efficient in Britain, which PV can't match.

On the other hand, you can end up with overheated water in the
summer.

Can you???

What makes you say that?

Personal experience.

It hasn't been ours even in this year's very high temperatures. I
think you've had the wrong type.

It wasn't actually me - it was a friend. It was, I think, a home installed
unit - and worked fine, but did produce very hot water this summer. Her
comment was that she was finding it difficult to use all the hot water
produced, and that the tap water was becoming unacceptably hot. No doubt
this is not a serious issue to fix.

I am certainly attracted to the technology, and I plan to implement it in
the house we buy after this one. I just have a feeling that doing a lot now
would (a) cost a lot of money which I can't afford and (b) not help the sale
prospects for the house in the city where we live. (Peterborough).

I might well be wrong!

--

John

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...

Perhaps, if one is converting a wooden barn in a desert. However, a
UK building is rather different.

Sadly, all energy (and water saving) systems are much easier and cheaper to
build in at the design stage. Retro-fitting is much more expensive. That
doesn't mean it's undesirable but space heating from solar isn't for us,
sadly.

Mary

"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:
"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...

You have a point, but I'm not yet convinced that it would be a
cost-effective improvement for us. I suspect that most house
buyers tend to be more impressed by modern-looking kitchens than
by solar cells on the roof.

What exactly do you mean by solar cells?

Are you talking about solar water heatinig or pv panels?


I wasn't really drawing a distinction.

There are huge distinctions!

I guess that currently solar water heating is the more usual,
because it is cheaper to install.

No, it's because it's efficient in Britain, which PV can't match.

On the other hand, you can end up with overheated water in the
summer.

Can you???

What makes you say that?

Personal experience.

It hasn't been ours even in this year's very high temperatures. I
think you've had the wrong type.

It wasn't actually me - it was a friend.

Ah - so it wasn't personal experience.

It was, I think, a home installed unit - and worked fine, but did produce
very hot water this summer. Her comment was that she was finding it
difficult to use all the hot water produced,

You don't HAVE to use it all!

and that the tap water was becoming unacceptably hot.

That is a problem with most domestic water heating systems unless there's
some kind of thermostatic control. It has to be diluted from the cold
supply. It's not a fault. I made use of the very hot water to launder items
such as washable pillows, duvets and other bedding which is normally left -
in my inefficient way - until when we need it. I have said here and the
makers say in their literature that it makes sense to organise routines to
make best use of the free hot water.


I am certainly attracted to the technology, and I plan to implement it in
the house we buy after this one. I just have a feeling that doing a lot
now would (a) cost a lot of money which I can't afford and (b) not help
the sale prospects for the house in the city where we live.
(Peterborough).

I might well be wrong!

I think you are but it's your choice.

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:23:28 +0100 someone who may be Andy Hall
wrote this:-

Notwithstanding that they are plug ugly

In your opinion. Not everybody shares it.

I didn't see this post - WHAT are plug ugly? Surely not solar water heating
panels? Ours looks like a roof light from the street.

Mary


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 24 Sep 2006 06:18:51 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-

For roof mounted panels, snow will prevent any output at all, as it
blocks the light.

Thick snow will. Thin snow will probably not, for various reasons.

That's true. But, David, some people are so dead set against it and think
they know more than anyone else that they're not going to listen to those of
us with direct experience.

Mary