Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #1   Report Post  
Gunner
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...2045-1558r.htm

Laugh laugh laugh.

You Libs are sooooo predictable.

Gunner


"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability,
accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose
and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee,
imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any
particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or
responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect
to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by
any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it
into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts
that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other
agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within
five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or
by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron
who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece
of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a
bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'
  #2   Report Post  
Tom Gardner
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

Immigration is our second original sin after slavery. The whole concept of
pretending to control border crossings is a total joke. America wants the
cheap labor, just like we did in the days of slavery, but has yet to come up
with a workable protocol. I think we should just open the borders and
document anyone that wants to come here but stipulate that there is no free
lunch, they must work and learn English, In return for contributing to our
society they can enjoy the benefits. I'm not an advocate of set minimum
wages but I don't like people being taken advantage of because of situation.
Somewhere in the past, my ancestors came here for opportunity not
oppression.

Why can't our government go back to fostering our creation of real wealth
within our borders? The deindustrialization of our country is just the
start, this situation is unsustainable. I often think that this whole
industrial revolution thing was a big mistake!


"Gunner" wrote in message
...
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...2045-1558r.htm

Laugh laugh laugh.

You Libs are sooooo predictable.

Gunner


"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability,
accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose
and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee,
imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any
particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or
responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect
to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by
any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it
into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts
that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other
agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within
five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or
by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron
who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece
of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a
bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'



  #3   Report Post  
Tom Stovall
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

Tom Gardner wrote:

Immigration is our second original sin after slavery. The whole concept of pretending to control border crossings is a total joke...


Immigration can be controlled to a much greater degree by enforcing
existing laws. Meaningful fines for any employer who allows an illegal
alien on a job site would be a good start.

America wants the cheap labor, just like we did in the days of slavery, but has yet to come up with a workable protocol...


I don't know that America wants or needs "cheap labor", but those
business that pay bottom wages for unskilled labor - especially
construction, agribusiness and restaurants/hotels are addicted to the
concept.

I think we should just open the borders and document anyone that wants
to come here but stipulate that there is no free lunch, they must work...


Any job an illegal alien holds is a job lost to an American citizen.
The
standard argument presented by big business is that Americans won't do
the jobs done by illegal aliens, but such arguments are transparently
self serving and laughably specious.

and learn English...


No puede hablar la lengua de la raza?

In return for contributing to our society they can enjoy the benefits.


Illegal aliens already enjoy many of the benefits of our society,
including free emergency medical care and free education as well as many
of the rights of the citizenry.

I'm not an advocate of set minimum wages but I don't like people being
taken advantage of because of situation...


The situation is that illegal aliens work for substandard wages doing
jobs that could be done by American citizens. As I see it, if an
employer can't make a profit hiring American labor, he's in the wrong
business.

Somewhere in the past, my ancestors came here for opportunity not
oppression...


Opportunity is where you find it, but the field ain't level if some
folks are playing by the rules while others are flaunting the rules.

Why can't our government go back to fostering our creation of real wealth within our borders?...


We can't create wealth because we don't make stuff anymore. Corporate
greed and the willingness or our political leaders from both sides of
the aisle to suck up to stateless multinationals will be our undoing.

The deindustrialization of our country is just the start, this situation
is unsustainable. I often think that this whole industrial revolution
thing was a big mistake!...


We can certainly agree that sending industry and jobs offshore is a big
mistake! It will enrich big business in the short term and devastate us
blue collar types in the long run.
--
Tom Stovall, CJF
Farrier & Blacksmith

http://www.katyforge.com

"I ride a big blue roan, I carry all I own,
In the pouches of my saddlebag, with my bedroll tied behind..."
Mary McCaslin, "Prairie in the Sky"
  #4   Report Post  
Cliff Huprich
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

In article , Gunner
writes:

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...2045-1558r.htm

Laugh laugh laugh.

You Libs are sooooo predictable.


??

Been done many times before IIRC.
But YOU like the new "legalized slavery" method ...
--
Cliff
  #5   Report Post  
Cliff Huprich
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

In article , Tom Stovall writes:

Illegal aliens already enjoy many of the benefits of our society,
including free emergency medical care and free education as well as many
of the rights of the citizenry.


Do they pay the same taxes?
Do their employers?
--
Cliff


  #6   Report Post  
Tom Stovall
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

Cliff Huprich wrote:

Illegal aliens already enjoy many of the benefits of our society,
including free emergency medical care and free education as well as many of the rights of the citizenry.


Do they pay the same taxes?


Nossir. Illegal aliens have to pay sales tax on goods and services they
buy in this country, but they don't pay ANY income tax when they're paid
in cash by their employer - and many are.

Do their employers?


When an employer pays an illegal alien in cash, there's no withholding
of any kind - it's off the books.

If an employer pays by check, and they meet the criteria, illegal aliens
are kept on the books as "independent contractors."

Outsourcing is an extremely common practice: Instead of hiring American
workers, a company will hire a another company employing illegal aliens
to perform certain tasks. When they're caught doing this - as was
Wal-Mart - an outfit can sanctimoniously disclaim any knowledge of the
hiring of illegal aliens.

An employer must do some creative accounting if he keeps an illegal
alien on the books as a regular employee because illegal aliens are
ineligible for social security.

An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card; so if he's paid by check, he has to cash his paycheck
someplace in order to send money home. It ain't by accident that check
cashing and money order ripoffs abound in the barrios.
--
Tom Stovall, CJF
Farrier & Blacksmith

http://www.katyforge.com

En boca cerrada no entran moscas.
  #7   Report Post  
Santa Cruz Mike
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:38:36 -0600, Tom Stovall
wrote:

An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card; so if he's paid by check,



You don't need a SS number to open a bank account.

Mike
  #8   Report Post  
Kathy
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?


"Santa Cruz Mike" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:38:36 -0600, Tom Stovall
wrote:

An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card; so if he's paid by check,



You don't need a SS number to open a bank account.

Mike


yes you do and you need 2 id's, at least one with a photo and you have to be
over 18 to get one at Commerce Bank


  #9   Report Post  
Santa Cruz Mike
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:10:34 -0500, "Kathy"
wrote:


"Santa Cruz Mike" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:38:36 -0600, Tom Stovall
wrote:

An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card; so if he's paid by check,



You don't need a SS number to open a bank account.

Mike


yes you do and you need 2 id's, at least one with a photo and you have to be
over 18 to get one at Commerce Bank



At Wells Fargo in Santa Cruz you need only two ids to open an account.
One must have a picture... a long list of other agreements, etc are
acceptable.. no SS needed... Depending on if you are white or
other.. there is a bery broad range of acceptable ids to use.

A business account requires a DBA, business liscense.. Tax Id number
of some kind....

MRAs requere Tax Id number, SS number to send info to IRS.

Many ask for SS numbers.. they don't require them. It is just an easy
way to identify you.


Later,
Mike
  #10   Report Post  
Tom Stovall
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

Santa Cruz Mike wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:38:36 -0600, Tom Stovall
wrote:

An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card; so if he's paid by check,


You don't need a SS number to open a bank account.


It may be just a Texas thing, but a social security number is required
to open an account at any Texas bank.
--
Tom Stovall, CJF
Farrier & Blacksmith

http://www.katyforge.com

"I ride a big blue roan, I carry all I own,
In the pouches of my saddlebag, with my bedroll tied behind..."
Mary McCaslin, "Prairie in the Sky"


  #11   Report Post  
Sue
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:38:36 -0600, Tom Stovall
wrote:

Cliff Huprich wrote:

Illegal aliens already enjoy many of the benefits of our society,
including free emergency medical care and free education as well as many of the rights of the citizenry.


Do they pay the same taxes?


Nossir. Illegal aliens have to pay sales tax on goods and services they
buy in this country, but they don't pay ANY income tax when they're paid
in cash by their employer - and many are.

Do their employers?


When an employer pays an illegal alien in cash, there's no withholding
of any kind - it's off the books.

If an employer pays by check, and they meet the criteria, illegal aliens
are kept on the books as "independent contractors."


I can't speak for any area other than my own - San Joaquin Valley, CA
- but most of the illegals around here work for labor contractors who
*do* take out taxes based on fake SSN's. In my job I see the check
stubs. Since these taxes are paid with fake SSN's the illegals do not
get refunds as they don't file for them. Now, I can't say as to
whether the labor contractors always send the money to the IRS. My
daughter works in a large restaurant with about 50 illegals. Every
one of them has a fake SSN, taxes are taken out and no refund is
filed for. A couple of years ago there was an article in the SF
Chronicle about all the money the IRS has collected that is associated
with fake #'s. I can't remember the amount but it was millions.
Sue

Outsourcing is an extremely common practice: Instead of hiring American
workers, a company will hire a another company employing illegal aliens
to perform certain tasks. When they're caught doing this - as was
Wal-Mart - an outfit can sanctimoniously disclaim any knowledge of the
hiring of illegal aliens.

An employer must do some creative accounting if he keeps an illegal
alien on the books as a regular employee because illegal aliens are
ineligible for social security.

An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card;


As I said above most have fake cards. Some even use legitimate
numbers. When my daughter was 8 years old I got a SS report on her #.
She was working for a van and storage company in Porterville, CA. In
my job we get a new hire list for the state. Often my clients show up
on the list "working" at jobs under hispanic names in towns and cities
far removed from this area.
Sue



  #12   Report Post  
Martin H. Eastburn
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

Tom Stovall wrote:

Santa Cruz Mike wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:38:36 -0600, Tom Stovall
wrote:


An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card; so if he's paid by check,


You don't need a SS number to open a bank account.



It may be just a Texas thing, but a social security number is required
to open an account at any Texas bank.

I think it is a matter of taxes. If the bank pays 0.000001% it amounts to
something and must be reported.

In Ca., taxes are so common, and non-green card types are also - all was forgotten...

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

  #13   Report Post  
Gary Coffman
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:16:07 GMT, Santa Cruz Mike wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:38:36 -0600, Tom Stovall
wrote:

An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card; so if he's paid by check,


You don't need a SS number to open a bank account.


True. But the federal banking laws now require a taxpayer
ID number on *every* bank account. In nearly all cases, for
individuals, that's a SS number.

You *can* get the IRS to issue you a taxpayer ID number
different from your Social Security number, but you have
to prove who you are to *them* to get it. One of the forms
of identification they want is your SS number.

Gary
  #14   Report Post  
Garlicdude
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

Tom Stovall wrote:


An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card; so if he's paid by check, he has to cash his paycheck
someplace in order to send money home. It ain't by accident that check
cashing and money order ripoffs abound in the barrios.


Tom, With these new ID cards that the Mexican embassy issues
illegal aliens can open bank accounts.
--
Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World
http://www.pulsareng.com/
  #15   Report Post  
Gunner
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 04:55:05 -0800, Garlicdude
wrote:

Tom Stovall wrote:


An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card; so if he's paid by check, he has to cash his paycheck
someplace in order to send money home. It ain't by accident that check
cashing and money order ripoffs abound in the barrios.


Tom, With these new ID cards that the Mexican embassy issues
illegal aliens can open bank accounts.


A hint for those of devious mindsets..even a gringo can get a Consular
Matricula card if you are willing to present a hundred or so dollars
along with your application. And of course you were born in Mexico, but
raised in the US by illegal parents, so you have no accent.

Which of couse does present some interesting opportunities.

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli


  #16   Report Post  
Backlash
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

I read in yesterday's paper that the Consular Matricula card will no longer
be accepted as a form of ID for obtaining driver's liscence in North
Carolina, starting Monday morning. The DMV has been SWAMPED the last week or
so with immigrants trying to beat the deadline. The farmers around here are
using a lot of Mexican labor. 15 passenger vans are very popular, since
apparently only about one in that number has a liscence. Grocery store
owners grin when they see them pull up out front.



RJ

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 04:55:05 -0800, Garlicdude
wrote:

Tom Stovall wrote:


An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card; so if he's paid by check, he has to cash his paycheck
someplace in order to send money home. It ain't by accident that check
cashing and money order ripoffs abound in the barrios.


Tom, With these new ID cards that the Mexican embassy issues
illegal aliens can open bank accounts.


A hint for those of devious mindsets..even a gringo can get a Consular
Matricula card if you are willing to present a hundred or so dollars
along with your application. And of course you were born in Mexico, but
raised in the US by illegal parents, so you have no accent.

Which of couse does present some interesting opportunities.

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli



  #17   Report Post  
Gary Coffman
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 09:07:07 GMT, strabo wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 06:01:42 GMT, "Martin H. Eastburn"
It may be just a Texas thing, but a social security number is required
to open an account at any Texas bank.

I think it is a matter of taxes. If the bank pays 0.000001% it amounts to
something and must be reported.


Then tell 'em you want a non-interest bearing account.


That won't exempt you anymore. One of the new provisions of the banking
laws, designed to catch money laundering, requires every bank account
to have a taxpayer ID number. For individuals, that's almost always their
SS number, though they can apply to the IRS for a different number.
The latter requires them to prove their identity to the IRS, which amounts
to the same problem for illegals.

Of course illegals routinely trade in counterfeit IDs. But it does add a
level of extra risk for them if they have to deal with a bank or the IRS
using fake documents.

Gary
  #18   Report Post  
jim rozen
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

In article , Gary Coffman says...

That won't exempt you anymore. One of the new provisions of the banking
laws, designed to catch money laundering, requires every bank account
to have a taxpayer ID number. For individuals, that's almost always their
SS number, though they can apply to the IRS for a different number.


Then how do they deal with corporate accounts, do they either
require an individual to be responsible for the account, or do
they assign a taxpayer number to the corporation?

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

  #19   Report Post  
Spehro Pefhany
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

On 1 Feb 2004 09:57:49 -0800, the renowned jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gary Coffman says...

That won't exempt you anymore. One of the new provisions of the banking
laws, designed to catch money laundering, requires every bank account
to have a taxpayer ID number. For individuals, that's almost always their
SS number, though they can apply to the IRS for a different number.


Then how do they deal with corporate accounts, do they either
require an individual to be responsible for the account, or do
they assign a taxpayer number to the corporation?


Probably banking resolutions, with corporate seal and signed by an
officer. And the corporate tax ID number.

BTW, you don't have to be a citizen or even a resident to get an
individual US taxpayer ID number AFAIUI. It can be an advantage to
have one, even if it's not required, depending on complicated
tax-treaty stuff.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
  #20   Report Post  
Gary Coffman
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

On 1 Feb 2004 09:57:49 -0800, jim rozen wrote:
In article , Gary Coffman says...

That won't exempt you anymore. One of the new provisions of the banking
laws, designed to catch money laundering, requires every bank account
to have a taxpayer ID number. For individuals, that's almost always their
SS number, though they can apply to the IRS for a different number.


Then how do they deal with corporate accounts, do they either
require an individual to be responsible for the account, or do
they assign a taxpayer number to the corporation?


Corporations are assigned taxpayer ID numbers by the IRS.
(Well, ordinary corporations are, subchapter S corps can use
an individual's taxpayer ID.)

Gary


  #21   Report Post  
pyotr filipivich
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

A city wide blackout at Sun, 01 Feb 2004 05:52:44 GMT did not prevent Gunner
from posting to rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 04:55:05 -0800, Garlicdude
wrote:

Tom Stovall wrote:


An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card; so if he's paid by check, he has to cash his paycheck
someplace in order to send money home. It ain't by accident that check
cashing and money order ripoffs abound in the barrios.


Tom, With these new ID cards that the Mexican embassy issues
illegal aliens can open bank accounts.


A hint for those of devious mindsets..even a gringo can get a Consular
Matricula card if you are willing to present a hundred or so dollars
along with your application. And of course you were born in Mexico, but
raised in the US by illegal parents, so you have no accent.


Can I use my "real" name, or should I "Hispanizise" it?

Of course, once you have Driver's License issued to illegals (using fake or
real ID), that makes all the other state driver's License suspect.
I mean I first get the matricular card, then a driver's license from the
nearest state accepting them as ID, and it doesn't mater if another state
doesn't accept the faked ID card. Which means the DL for State 2 is just as
suspect as those from State A (which covers about 2/3rds of the country, last I
heard.)

Which of couse does present some interesting opportunities.


Yep. Not good ones, but ... hmmm. Now I don't have to get a birth
certificate from a graveyard ...


see yah.


--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."
  #22   Report Post  
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 03:09:19 GMT, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

A city wide blackout at Sun, 01 Feb 2004 05:52:44 GMT did not prevent Gunner
from posting to rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 04:55:05 -0800, Garlicdude
wrote:

Tom Stovall wrote:


An illegal alien can't get a bank account because he has no social
security card; so if he's paid by check, he has to cash his paycheck
someplace in order to send money home. It ain't by accident that check
cashing and money order ripoffs abound in the barrios.

Tom, With these new ID cards that the Mexican embassy issues
illegal aliens can open bank accounts.


A hint for those of devious mindsets..even a gringo can get a Consular
Matricula card if you are willing to present a hundred or so dollars
along with your application. And of course you were born in Mexico, but
raised in the US by illegal parents, so you have no accent.


Can I use my "real" name, or should I "Hispanizise" it?

Of course, once you have Driver's License issued to illegals (using fake or
real ID), that makes all the other state driver's License suspect.
I mean I first get the matricular card, then a driver's license from the
nearest state accepting them as ID, and it doesn't mater if another state
doesn't accept the faked ID card. Which means the DL for State 2 is just as
suspect as those from State A (which covers about 2/3rds of the country, last I
heard.)

Which of couse does present some interesting opportunities.


Yep. Not good ones, but ... hmmm. Now I don't have to get a birth
certificate from a graveyard ...

Correct. Its getting harder and harder to find one of those blown
away deserted small town graveyards that havent had the country or state
computerize their old death records. However, if one did this years
ago.... or found one where the court house burned...

There are a goodly number of people who have come from the same 3-4
small towns over the years.....

see yah.


Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli
  #23   Report Post  
Clark Magnuson
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

Aliens sneak, sneak, sneak in the USA.
George said, "Stop sneaking and pay taxes!"
See Nancy bitch at George.


--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.

  #24   Report Post  
Gary
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

Clark Magnuson wrote:

A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation
of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.


LOL...

Do you claim it's better to teach the lies, oppression and bigotry
of ancient ignorant middle eastern christian superstitions, as fact?


Gary & Harvey (the one & only "TRUE" GOD)
  #25   Report Post  
Guido
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

Gary wrote:

Clark Magnuson wrote:

A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation
of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.



LOL...

Do you claim it's better to teach the lies, oppression and bigotry
of ancient ignorant middle eastern christian superstitions, as fact?


Its worse than that:
http://www.adequacy.org/public/stori...01633.381.html

"Rest assured that I am not about to embark on a "here's
lots of scientific reasons why creationists are wrong"
crusade here. This has been done to death, and I don't
intend to reinvent the wheel. Instead, I would like to
spend a few minutes examining the dark underbelly of
creationism, which is a movement that is so foul and
odious that one struggles to find the words to most aptly
describe it."




  #26   Report Post  
Clark Magnuson
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?



Gary wrote:

Clark Magnuson wrote:


A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation
of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.



LOL...

Do you claim it's better to teach the lies, oppression and bigotry
of ancient ignorant middle eastern christian superstitions, as fact?


Gary & Harvey (the one & only "TRUE" GOD)



What I claim is that the family is the place for children to get values
and beliefs.
If we must socialize the cost of school, let them teach useful skills
and stay off the family's turf.

No one seems to want to live in societies where the state makes moves on
the family, despite how easy it is to sell the idea.

--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.


  #27   Report Post  
Clark Magnuson
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?



Guido wrote:

Gary wrote:

Clark Magnuson wrote:




"Rest assured that I am not about to embark on a "here's
lots of scientific reasons why creationists are wrong"
crusade here. This has been done to death, and I don't
intend to reinvent the wheel. Instead, I would like to
spend a few minutes examining the dark underbelly of
creationism, which is a movement that is so foul and
odious that one struggles to find the words to most aptly
describe it."


The pubic school is no place for the discussion of creationism vs evolution.

--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.

  #28   Report Post  
Guido
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

Clark Magnuson wrote:


Guido wrote:

Gary wrote:

Clark Magnuson wrote:





"Rest assured that I am not about to embark on a "here's
lots of scientific reasons why creationists are wrong"
crusade here. This has been done to death, and I don't
intend to reinvent the wheel. Instead, I would like to
spend a few minutes examining the dark underbelly of
creationism, which is a movement that is so foul and
odious that one struggles to find the words to most aptly
describe it."


The pubic school



Now you are just being rude.


is no place for the discussion of creationism vs
evolution.


Isn't that what the biologists are saying?

  #29   Report Post  
Gary
 
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Clark Magnuson wrote:

The pubic school is no place for the discussion of creationism vs evolution.


Did somebody claim it is?


Gary & Harvey (the one & only "TRUE" GOD)
  #30   Report Post  
Gary
 
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Guido wrote:

Clark Magnuson wrote:


The pubic school


Now you are just being rude.

is no place for the discussion of creationism vs
evolution.


Isn't that what the biologists are saying?


Fundies, go figure...


Gary & Harvey (the one & only "TRUE" GOD)


  #31   Report Post  
Gary
 
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Clark Magnuson wrote:

What I claim is that the family is the place for children to get
values and beliefs.


Q: How is this related to teaching science in public schools?

A: It isn't.


If we must socialize the cost of school, let them teach useful
skills and stay off the family's turf.


Since when is science "the family's turf"? Fundies, go figure.


No one seems to want to live in societies where the state makes
moves on the family, despite how easy it is to sell the idea.


You got that backwards, it's your ignorant superstition which
constantly "makes moves" on societies.


A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of
atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.


Right. It's far better to have manipulative ignorant middle
eastern control freak superstitious christian cults, burning science
books and denying knowledge to children while teaching them the hatred
and bigotry of their manipulative ignorant middle eastern control
freak superstitious christian cults.


Gary & Harvey (the one & only "TRUE" GOD)
  #32   Report Post  
Larry Jaques
 
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Default OT- I thought Bush on imigration was evil?

On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 14:58:18 -0700, Gary brought
forth from the murky depths:

Guido wrote:

Clark Magnuson wrote:

The pubic school


Now you are just being rude.

is no place for the discussion of creationism vs
evolution.


Isn't that what the biologists are saying?


Fundies, go figure...

Gary & Harvey (the one & only "TRUE" GOD)


I got a spam from this guy today but looked anyway.
Some of the stickers/tees are hilarious, like the
one "You Aren't Saved". Won't the fundies love it?
http://www.unamerican.com/catalog/index.htm
Reboot America, FEAR BUSH, Evolve, and a few other
goodies are there, too.


------------------------------------------
Do the voices in my head bother you?
------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Full-Service Web Development
  #33   Report Post  
Clark Magnuson
 
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Gary wrote:

Clark Magnuson wrote:

What I claim is that the family is the place for children to get
values and beliefs.



Q: How is this related to teaching science in public schools?

A: It isn't.




I think I have a pretty good grip on science.


When my 12 came home with a book entitled "Evolution" with the homework
problem at the end of the chapter, "How has evolution changed man?"
That is not science.
That is a left wing assault in science clothing.

The same people who want your money and guns also want to burn the
bibles [figuratively] in the kid's brains.
THEY worship big government, and they will tolerate no other religions.
They are liberals.
What would you expect?

--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.


  #34   Report Post  
Guido
 
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Clark Magnuson wrote:



Gary wrote:

Clark Magnuson wrote:

What I claim is that the family is the place for children to get
values and beliefs.



Q: How is this related to teaching science in public schools?

A: It isn't.




I think I have a pretty good grip on science.



When my 12 came home with a book entitled "Evolution" with the homework
problem at the end of the chapter, "How has evolution changed man?"
That is not science.
That is a left wing assault in science clothing.


Well lets see even if we disregard the evolution of man from
earlier forms of homonoids, there is the evolution of
grasses into the major cereal crops we use today. From that
alone evelotion has changed man from hunter gathers to
settled populations. Now how is that a left wing assault on
anything?

  #35   Report Post  
Lewis Hartswick
 
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Clark Magnuson wrote:

--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of
atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.


A society that teaches the bible as fact will have Crusades" and
more "Salem Witch trials" and Spanish Inquisations. I think I
prefer the alternative.
...lew...


  #36   Report Post  
Clark Magnuson
 
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Lewis Hartswick wrote:

Clark Magnuson wrote:

--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of
atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.



A society that teaches the bible as fact will have Crusades" and
more "Salem Witch trials" and Spanish Inquisations. I think I
prefer the alternative.
...lew...


Back then we had lower taxes and less infringement on the right to keep
and bear arms.
Right now we have people loosing their jobs for racial epithets, because
the corporations can't take a law suit.
To quote a Boeing supervisor, "Any woman or any black can have a white
male fired on any day."
That problem is far more widespread than the isolated crusades, Salem,
and Spanish events.
The politically correct religion of liberals is far more onerous than
Christian based conformity.
When given a choice between communism and capitalism, people always want
to go to the capitalism, where life in unfair.
The high priests of liberal political correctness are the professors at
publicly funded universities. They will not rest as long as there is
private property.

--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.


  #37   Report Post  
Cliff Huprich
 
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Clark Magnuson wrote in message ...
Gary wrote:

Clark Magnuson wrote:

What I claim is that the family is the place for children to get
values and beliefs.


Superstitions and hatreds I think you mean.


Q: How is this related to teaching science in public schools?

A: It isn't.




I think I have a pretty good grip on science.


When my 12 came home with a book entitled "Evolution" with the homework
problem at the end of the chapter, "How has evolution changed man?"
That is not science.


And you would know that because it did not work on you?

That is a left wing assault in science clothing.


"Assault" on what, exactly? Stupidity?

The same people who want your money and guns also want to burn the
bibles [figuratively] in the kid's brains.


And you want to stuff their heads with vile superstitions and
then test them on the resultant idiocy, right?

Then you'll complain about the lack of education the kids got
and blame the parents no doubt.

THEY worship big government, and they will tolerate no other religions.


How many religions, exactly, are you trying to sell here??

How about a good three year mandatory class in Satanism or animism?

They are liberals.


Like in "educated"?

What would you expect?


Darwin work, right?
--
Cliff
  #38   Report Post  
Cliff Huprich
 
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Clark Magnuson wrote in message news:FR7Vb.111701$U%5.573781@attbi_s03...
Lewis Hartswick wrote:

Clark Magnuson wrote:

--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of
atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.



A society that teaches the bible as fact will have Crusades" and
more "Salem Witch trials" and Spanish Inquisations. I think I
prefer the alternative.
...lew...


Back then we had lower taxes and less infringement on the right to keep
and bear arms.


And you really miss the caves, clubs and reruns of dubbed Italian
Westerns in B&W.

Right now we have people loosing their jobs for racial epithets, because
the corporations can't take a law suit.


And the dammed liberals tried to end slavery.

To quote a Boeing supervisor, "Any woman or any black can have a white
male fired on any day."


Puts a sad end to the grab & pinch fun. Liberals are a sad thing
indeed. They even frown on rape (unlike certain well known conservatives.)

That problem is far more widespread than the isolated crusades, Salem,
and Spanish events.


No killing, murder, torture, rape, plundering and other usual normal
conservative-valued red-blooded god-given fundie pleasures?

The politically correct religion of liberals is far more onerous than
Christian based conformity.


See above about all those things they frown on.

When given a choice between communism and capitalism, people always want
to go to the capitalism, where life in unfair.


Which explains why the world has no Communists or Socialists and
the jails are empty of free-market ("all I can grab") folks.

The high priests of liberal political correctness are the professors at
publicly funded universities.


Huh? Is this another complaint about folks with an actual education?

hey will not rest as long as there is
private property.


Keep off MY roads.
--
Cliff
  #39   Report Post  
Cliff Huprich
 
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Clark Magnuson wrote in message ...
Gary wrote:

Clark Magnuson wrote:


A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation
of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.



LOL...

Do you claim it's better to teach the lies, oppression and bigotry
of ancient ignorant middle eastern christian superstitions, as fact?


Gary & Harvey (the one & only "TRUE" GOD)



What I claim is that the family is the place for children to get values
and beliefs.


"The Talking Snake Theory: Creation Science & History For Christian Children"
(Recommended for Children ages 3-12) -by Pastor Deacon Fred

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/talkingsnake.html

If we must socialize the cost of school, let them teach useful skills
and stay off the family's turf.


"Science Doesn't Make Any Sense!"

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1100/science.html

No one seems to want to live in societies where the state makes moves on
the family, despite how easy it is to sell the idea.


"Jesus Wants You To Pack Heat!"
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/60second/

A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation
of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.


I don't suppose you have any idea what the Theory of Evolution
is about.
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