Just come back from Tenerife and it looks like Solar Panels are being
encouraged with a 30% government grant over there.Fair dues,but are
they a prospect in our climate?
Has anyone got any unbiased opinions regarding installing Solar Panels
in UK ?

michaelangelo7 wrote:
Just come back from Tenerife and it looks like Solar Panels are being
encouraged with a 30% government grant over there.Fair dues,but are
they a prospect in our climate?
Has anyone got any unbiased opinions regarding installing Solar Panels
in UK ?

Are you talking solar pv or solar thermal? Solar pv is the most hyped
dead duck around today, while solar thermal _can_ be made to pay, but
normally doesnt due to inadequate design skill.


NT

wrote in message
ups.com...
michaelangelo7 wrote:
Just come back from Tenerife and it looks like Solar Panels are being
encouraged with a 30% government grant over there.Fair dues,but are
they a prospect in our climate?
Has anyone got any unbiased opinions regarding installing Solar Panels
in UK ?

Are you talking solar pv or solar thermal? Solar pv is the most hyped
dead duck around today, while solar thermal _can_ be made to pay, but
normally doesnt due to inadequate design skill.

Yep, well designed using a solar thermal store and simple control system to
prioritise solar gained water, and some DIY will make the whole thing cost
effective.

wrote:
michaelangelo7 wrote:
Just come back from Tenerife and it looks like Solar Panels are being
encouraged with a 30% government grant over there.Fair dues,but are
they a prospect in our climate?
Has anyone got any unbiased opinions regarding installing Solar Panels
in UK ?

Are you talking solar pv or solar thermal? Solar pv is the most hyped
dead duck around today, while solar thermal _can_ be made to pay, but
normally doesnt due to inadequate design skill.

Solar-PV can also be made to pay - but probably not in the UK, unless
getting mains electricity or gas would cost tens of thousands.

In sunnier places, possibly.

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
wrote:
michaelangelo7 wrote:
Just come back from Tenerife and it looks like Solar Panels are being
encouraged with a 30% government grant over there.Fair dues,but are
they a prospect in our climate?
Has anyone got any unbiased opinions regarding installing Solar Panels
in UK ?

Are you talking solar pv or solar thermal? Solar pv is the most hyped
dead duck around today, while solar thermal _can_ be made to pay, but
normally doesnt due to inadequate design skill.

Solar-PV can also be made to pay - but probably not in the UK, unless
getting mains electricity or gas would cost tens of thousands.

In sunnier places, possibly

Could someone explain what solar PV means and what solar .thermal means.
For what its worth I saw a solar panel mounted on the roof of a University
in Edinburgh heating a water tank and it was demonstrated to me that even
on a cloudy day the water was warm to feel due to radiation.
Blair

On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:22:50 -0000 Blair wrote :
Could someone explain what solar PV means and what solar .thermal means.

PV is photo-voltaic: the panel generates electricity. Solar thermal is a
panel that produces heat.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.12 released 8 Dec 2005]

"Blair" wrote in message
...


For what its worth I saw a solar panel mounted on the roof of a
University
in Edinburgh heating a water tank and it was demonstrated to me that even
on a cloudy day the water was warm to feel due to radiation.

Yes, ours is over 30C today and it's overcast and raining.

Mary

On 3 Mar 2006 15:31:26 -0800 someone who may be "michaelangelo7"
wrote this:-

Just come back from Tenerife and it looks like Solar Panels are being
encouraged with a 30% government grant over there.Fair dues,but are
they a prospect in our climate?

They are more than a prospect. Whether you are talking about hot
water or electricity generating panels they are already fitted to
some houses. One of the companies offering such things is
http://www.imaginationsolar.com

Grants in England and Wales are currently in what might be called a
state of flux. http://www.solartwin.com will explain the fears of
one installation company.

Has anyone got any unbiased opinions regarding installing Solar Panels
in UK ?

Unbiased? Unlikely, we are all biased in many ways.

Views? Use a search engine on this newsgroup and uk.environment and
you will get a whole range of views.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:19:30 +0000 David Hansen wrote :
Grants in England and Wales are currently in what might be called a
state of flux. http://www.solartwin.com will explain the fears of
one installation company.

If you read it all it's special pleading par excellence. Their
average system costs £3,000 but 90% of people buy because they are
getting a £400 grant, reducing the cost to £2600. Given recent
increases in energy prices if it was worth doing for £2600 last year
it's more than worth £3000 now but ...

From their website "We estimate that for mains gas (not more
expensive bottled gas) you are unlikely to exceed £60 on fuel savings
and perhaps save another £10 or so per annum on boiler life
extension. For electricity (peak rate) the savings can be well over
£100 P.A"

It may give you a good feeling but the economics don't stand up.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.12 released 8 Dec 2005]

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:43:10 GMT someone who may be Tony Bryer
wrote this:-

It may give you a good feeling but the economics don't stand up.

Are you trying to personalise the discussion for some reason? Does
it matter whether I get a good feeling or not?

In terms of simple payback solar water heating is certainly not the
best way to invest money. The payback period is at best long.
However, simple payback is not the only way of looking at things and
even if just considering money there are rather more sophisticated
ways of evaluating things. In addition to money there are other ways
of looking at an investment, such as reduction in carbon dioxide
emissions. Some people wish to do their bit, not just personally but
to encourage the industry. That is also why some people will do
things like use sustainable electricity or recycle things.

There are also other factors to consider. A well designed system
will mean that a boiler does not need to be run for 4-6 months a
year just to provide domestic hot water. This has advantages,
including prolonging the life of the boiler.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 18:05:58 +0000 David Hansen wrote :
Are you trying to personalise the discussion for some reason? Does
it matter whether I get a good feeling or not?

The 'you' was generic not personal.

However, simple payback is not the only way of looking at things and
even if just considering money there are rather more sophisticated
ways of evaluating things. In addition to money there are other ways
of looking at an investment, such as reduction in carbon dioxide
emissions.

Well yes. So the government should spend its money (our money)in ways
that maximise the CO2 reduction per £ spent. Given that for the most
part we are talking gas (either burned directly or in power stations)
cost saved is a pretty good proxy for CO2 reduction.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.12 released 8 Dec 2005]

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:43:10 GMT someone who may be Tony Bryer
wrote this:-

It may give you a good feeling but the economics don't stand up.

Are you trying to personalise the discussion for some reason? Does
it matter whether I get a good feeling or not?

In terms of simple payback solar water heating is certainly not the
best way to invest money. The payback period is at best long.
However, simple payback is not the only way of looking at things and
even if just considering money there are rather more sophisticated
ways of evaluating things. In addition to money there are other ways
of looking at an investment, such as reduction in carbon dioxide
emissions. Some people wish to do their bit, not just personally but
to encourage the industry. That is also why some people will do
things like use sustainable electricity or recycle things.

There are also other factors to consider. A well designed system
will mean that a boiler does not need to be run for 4-6 months a
year just to provide domestic hot water. This has advantages,
including prolonging the life of the boiler.

Well said.

Mary

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:19:30 +0000 David Hansen wrote :
Grants in England and Wales are currently in what might be called a
state of flux. http://www.solartwin.com will explain the fears of
one installation company.

If you read it all it's special pleading par excellence. Their
average system costs £3,000 but 90% of people buy because they are
getting a £400 grant, reducing the cost to £2600. Given recent
increases in energy prices if it was worth doing for £2600 last year
it's more than worth £3000 now but ...

I think the government grant has now finished. What's more, if you installed
it yourself the government wouldn't pay the grant.

We installed our own in February, it cost just over £2,000 including a lot
of plumbing, more than conventional systems would need.


It may give you a good feeling but the economics don't stand up.

It's nothing to do with feeling good and economics aren't the only
criterion.

What's more, the panel can move house with you for up to three moves, and
keep its guarantee.

Mary

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:19:30 +0000, David Hansen
wrote:

On 3 Mar 2006 15:31:26 -0800 someone who may be "michaelangelo7"
wrote this:-

Just come back from Tenerife and it looks like Solar Panels are being
encouraged with a 30% government grant over there.Fair dues,but are
they a prospect in our climate?

They are more than a prospect. Whether you are talking about hot
water or electricity generating panels they are already fitted to
some houses. One of the companies offering such things is
http://www.imaginationsolar.com

Grants in England and Wales are currently in what might be called a
state of flux. http://www.solartwin.com will explain the fears of
one installation company.

Has anyone got any unbiased opinions regarding installing Solar Panels
in UK ?

Unbiased? Unlikely, we are all biased in many ways.

Views? Use a search engine on this newsgroup and uk.environment and
you will get a whole range of views.

I live in central Scotland and I'm beginning to see a lot of solar
panels on domestic roofs. Living here, I see months of grey skies or
long periods of brilliant blue winter skies, perhaps depending on how
I'm feeling. Can all these local fitters of solar panels be mistaken
or misinformed. Trouble is, there are no views that are more
entrenched than those of vested interest or pseudo-expertise. Only
wish I could get invited into the comforting embrace of either group.
:-)
--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

Drop the EGG to email me.

michaelangelo7 wrote in message
oups.com...
Just come back from Tenerife and it looks like Solar Panels are being
encouraged with a 30% government grant over there.Fair dues,but are
they a prospect in our climate?
Has anyone got any unbiased opinions regarding installing Solar Panels
in UK ?



my biased opinion is that at this moment in time the commercial made/fitted
versions are still not economically viable in England.
However I have a Heath Robinson diy job on my roof
Today clear sky and some sunshine; outside temp was 5c, water from the mains
was 7c, water from the solar panels 18c
Not a huge gain but still worth while, summer time temp can be anything
upto 60c +.
Ive also got eight 6ft panel's that heat the swimming pool in the summer, in
July 2004 the temp reached 40c and people were complaining it was too Hot
!




-

Thanks Mark, that's what I always thought.Recken I could build my own
panelst too.
Could you post a few pointers please on basic requirements,or tell me
where to get info.

On 4 Mar 2006 23:50:59 -0800 someone who may be "michaelangelo7"
wrote this:-

Could you post a few pointers please on basic requirements,or tell me
where to get info.

You could start by looking at the thread entitled, "Solar water
heating", that is running in this group at the moment. In there you
will find a recommendation to visit http://www.cat.org.uk which has
information sheets on this and you can buy their booklets.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54