I normally stay out of this but this drivel has gone on long enough.
I cannot filter these silly messages because I use Google to view
them. On the plus side, I do not get my Inbox filled up either.

To answer your question, BGKM or Tall Oak or whatever your current
assumed name is now, let's ask the question, if you were building a
house and it was going as well as the goodwill and respect you have
garnished from this group and, possibly other groups, what would IT
look like?

You are more than welcome to your opinion. That is the wonderful
thing about being American: men and women have died preserving that
right for over 225 years now. And, yes, death and dying is, has been,
and always will be a tragic outcome of war. I am not going to argue
about whether or not this is a "just" war, the fact remains that it is
happening and for some reason, I do not believe it is just that easy
to walk away from it. Maybe we did get ourselves into a pickle over
there but, on the other hand, maybe if we pull out too fast, we may
cause the people living in that region even more death and
destruction.

I believe the issues are far more complex than we all think they are--
definitely more than we WANT them to be.

I don't read all the messages you post because, to be truthful, there
are far too many of them and instead of getting your point across, you
are causing people to rebuke you or, worse, ignore you and your
message. You can be an advocate but there is a fine line before you
turn into a fanatic radical that is viewed as a blabbering idiot. And
when you respond with nothing but vile venom, it weakens your case
even further.

If you want reasonable, responsible dialog about the subject, I am
sure there are ways to post to this group and get some of what you
are seeking. Just as long as you know that there will be people that
disagree with you and we, as members of rec.woodworking, do not have
the ability to stop the war, like it seems you think we can. People
are allowed to disagree with you as you are permitted to disagree with
them. Again, to restate what I wrote int he beginning of this
message, that is one of the things that makes this country great.

(Now I am ready to get the barrage of lewd, depraved, and perverted
responses that will accuse me of having sex with my grandmother and so
that I can have a kid who is my mother's sister or some other nonsense
like that. I am ready for it, BGKM/Tall Oak/some IP address. I
probably won't respond to it as it won't bother me because I always
take a look at who is saying it and base the response on what was said
and how it was said in the past.)

Ray Kinzler (yes, my real name)

See Ray... Your assumptions as false and as wrong as your opinion is. First
off, since you love to look at headers you seem to have an over interest of
my postings. Secondly if you speak or write respectfully, I act accordingly.
It's the assholes that get what they get! You and every American should be
outraged. Would you let someone murder you family? Then why accept the
death of an Iraqi Family or an Afghanistan Family and I mean Family not
"suspected" Terrorists. How can you justify it? Fog of War? Collateral
Damge? If your so concerned with Freedomn & Democracy.... you really lose
sight of it, doing it with guns and bombs. Your an American stand up like an
American, these people are being killed in your name. Go to Turkey or Italy
even Germany this spring Tell the people you meet you're an American, and
many will call you a murderer.

Funny how my words my simple words are to you "lewd, depraved, and
perverted".and all the people being killed, the war itself..... is what
HOLY?

"lewd, depraved, and perverted" doesn't even cover the torture the rapes or
murders. maybe the bribes and payoffs though!

If anything Ray you need to re-examine what your priorities are. I think
words should be at the very bottom of your list (better not even on it) and
try putting people first and not just yourself!










wrote in message
oups.com...
I normally stay out of this but this drivel has gone on long enough.
I cannot filter these silly messages because I use Google to view
them. On the plus side, I do not get my Inbox filled up either.

To answer your question, BGKM or Tall Oak or whatever your current
assumed name is now, let's ask the question, if you were building a
house and it was going as well as the goodwill and respect you have
garnished from this group and, possibly other groups, what would IT
look like?

You are more than welcome to your opinion. That is the wonderful
thing about being American: men and women have died preserving that
right for over 225 years now. And, yes, death and dying is, has been,
and always will be a tragic outcome of war. I am not going to argue
about whether or not this is a "just" war, the fact remains that it is
happening and for some reason, I do not believe it is just that easy
to walk away from it. Maybe we did get ourselves into a pickle over
there but, on the other hand, maybe if we pull out too fast, we may
cause the people living in that region even more death and
destruction.

I believe the issues are far more complex than we all think they are--
definitely more than we WANT them to be.

I don't read all the messages you post because, to be truthful, there
are far too many of them and instead of getting your point across, you
are causing people to rebuke you or, worse, ignore you and your
message. You can be an advocate but there is a fine line before you
turn into a fanatic radical that is viewed as a blabbering idiot. And
when you respond with nothing but vile venom, it weakens your case
even further.

If you want reasonable, responsible dialog about the subject, I am
sure there are ways to post to this group and get some of what you
are seeking. Just as long as you know that there will be people that
disagree with you and we, as members of rec.woodworking, do not have
the ability to stop the war, like it seems you think we can. People
are allowed to disagree with you as you are permitted to disagree with
them. Again, to restate what I wrote int he beginning of this
message, that is one of the things that makes this country great.

(Now I am ready to get the barrage of lewd, depraved, and perverted
responses that will accuse me of having sex with my grandmother and so
that I can have a kid who is my mother's sister or some other nonsense
like that. I am ready for it, BGKM/Tall Oak/some IP address. I
probably won't respond to it as it won't bother me because I always
take a look at who is saying it and base the response on what was said
and how it was said in the past.)

Ray Kinzler (yes, my real name)

Well, whoever you are, you missed the entire point of what I wrote.
The lewd, perverted language are the names you call people and the way
you abuse their mothers or fathers or daughters or sons. For some odd
reason, you decide you need to post this stuff to a newsgroup such as
rec.woodworking. It does not belong here. I think I remember
somebody here said they don't care if you are American or Iranian;
Christian or Muslim, he would talk to anybody about woodworking--I
think we all would. That is why we are members of this newsgroup. I
know I am not here to argue about something like this, WHICHEVER side
I am on, and I see merits to both sides. I know I exposed myself to
you with that statement but, frankly, I can't worry about that.

All I am trying to get across to you is this:

This is, first and foremost, a group of people who like to politely
and civilly discuss woodworking. It is not a political forum or a
place for name calling and/or belligerence. Even if you feel others
are being contentious to you, you need to look at yourself and your
actions. If anything you are saying is hostile, crude, nasty, pick a
synonym, then you do not have the right to say that people have not
been respectful of you and your opinion. This is a place where we can
get away from 'the real world' even if it is just for a little while.
For me, it serves as a diversion and a place where I can learn from
other people's experiences about working with wood. Every once in a
while, an off-topic story is submitted--it may be funny, it may be
personal, it may be of days of yore--and these, too, are enjoyable.

Whenever a person reads drivel like "and your's that your infertile
and retarded?" or "No your fat whore Mother just left! You know she
ashamed to have such a failure girlie man for a son who still lives
under her roof." or "HEY JT, LEON MARK and JOSE! GRAB YOU GEAR
HALLIBURTON CAN USE SOME WOODWORKER'S! Fight them Jihadist over there"
and other nonsense like that, do you really think anybody who is a
mature adult would even give the author any sort of respect? Again,
no matter WHICH side of the coin he/she is on?

If you want respect, treat others with respect even if you think they
are not respecting you and your opinion. And respecting people is not
limited to not calling them names, it is also consideration of the
people in a newsgroup and paying attention as to why they are members
of a newsgroup. Post the occasional off topic message, I don't think
anybody will gripe about that. Flood the place, then you will meet
resistance. Face the facts. You would do the same thing is you were
in their shoes--you ARE doing the same thing, which is making this
place more like a zoo everyday.

I am sorry if I do not say "Rah-Rah, BGKM!! Go get 'em!!" I could
not, in good conscience, ever come to respect a man who treats others
with such disregard and belligerence. And, truth be told, from
everything I have witnessed, you are the one who started the mud-
slinging when people dared to disagree with your point of view. It
was you who started saying nasty things then others responded the same
way. I am not saying that they were right in responding that way but,
then again, they didn't expect such venom when they disagreed with a
point of view.

Geesh.

Oh, by the way, saying my name over and over and over again is a way
to nicely mock me.

I am really not sure why people make comments like this. I have come
to the conclusion that neither conseratives nor liberals are going to
change their political views. Sure there are some in the middle that
may be swayed.....but certainly not by hateful comments. Only solid
ideas by good hearted people will change the minds of most people. I
feel posting on a wood working site acomplishes nothing. I'm sure
there are plenty of political newss groups that would welcome these
shouting matches.

(by the way...I'm much too conservative to support Bush, but I will
always support the office of the president)

you can say what ever you want.... but in RW there are plenty of assholes
and jerkoffs....
Someone post a simple question and odds are he gets 6 morons who post just
to post and 1 guy who knows ****.

But honestly don't waste your time, you offer me nothing... You have nothing
of value and your words just empty.

Read your stuff!!! It's as if you just speak to hear yourself talk!


wrote in message
ps.com...
Well, whoever you are, you missed the entire point of what I wrote.
The lewd, perverted language are the names you call people and the way
you abuse their mothers or fathers or daughters or sons. For some odd
reason, you decide you need to post this stuff to a newsgroup such as
rec.woodworking. It does not belong here. I think I remember
somebody here said they don't care if you are American or Iranian;
Christian or Muslim, he would talk to anybody about woodworking--I
think we all would. That is why we are members of this newsgroup. I
know I am not here to argue about something like this, WHICHEVER side
I am on, and I see merits to both sides. I know I exposed myself to
you with that statement but, frankly, I can't worry about that.

All I am trying to get across to you is this:

This is, first and foremost, a group of people who like to politely
and civilly discuss woodworking. It is not a political forum or a
place for name calling and/or belligerence. Even if you feel others
are being contentious to you, you need to look at yourself and your
actions. If anything you are saying is hostile, crude, nasty, pick a
synonym, then you do not have the right to say that people have not
been respectful of you and your opinion. This is a place where we can
get away from 'the real world' even if it is just for a little while.
For me, it serves as a diversion and a place where I can learn from
other people's experiences about working with wood. Every once in a
while, an off-topic story is submitted--it may be funny, it may be
personal, it may be of days of yore--and these, too, are enjoyable.

Whenever a person reads drivel like "and your's that your infertile
and retarded?" or "No your fat whore Mother just left! You know she
ashamed to have such a failure girlie man for a son who still lives
under her roof." or "HEY JT, LEON MARK and JOSE! GRAB YOU GEAR
HALLIBURTON CAN USE SOME WOODWORKER'S! Fight them Jihadist over there"
and other nonsense like that, do you really think anybody who is a
mature adult would even give the author any sort of respect? Again,
no matter WHICH side of the coin he/she is on?

If you want respect, treat others with respect even if you think they
are not respecting you and your opinion. And respecting people is not
limited to not calling them names, it is also consideration of the
people in a newsgroup and paying attention as to why they are members
of a newsgroup. Post the occasional off topic message, I don't think
anybody will gripe about that. Flood the place, then you will meet
resistance. Face the facts. You would do the same thing is you were
in their shoes--you ARE doing the same thing, which is making this
place more like a zoo everyday.

I am sorry if I do not say "Rah-Rah, BGKM!! Go get 'em!!" I could
not, in good conscience, ever come to respect a man who treats others
with such disregard and belligerence. And, truth be told, from
everything I have witnessed, you are the one who started the mud-
slinging when people dared to disagree with your point of view. It
was you who started saying nasty things then others responded the same
way. I am not saying that they were right in responding that way but,
then again, they didn't expect such venom when they disagreed with a
point of view.

Geesh.

Oh, by the way, saying my name over and over and over again is a way
to nicely mock me.

Now is that not a cop out?

I don't support Bush, But I support the Office?

You and every one else in this world, should support what is right and not
support what is wrong! If the German people stood up to Hitler? If Japanese
soldiers refused to attack Pearl Harbor, or the Terrorists refused to get on
the Planes on 9/11............ They didn't and WHY? Like
yourself..................they were too afraid!

Why is America so concerned about the rest of the World over it's self?


"splinter" wrote in message
ups.com...
I am really not sure why people make comments like this. I have come
to the conclusion that neither conseratives nor liberals are going to
change their political views. Sure there are some in the middle that
may be swayed.....but certainly not by hateful comments. Only solid
ideas by good hearted people will change the minds of most people. I
feel posting on a wood working site acomplishes nothing. I'm sure
there are plenty of political newss groups that would welcome these
shouting matches.

(by the way...I'm much too conservative to support Bush, but I will
always support the office of the president)

Gee, BGKM,

Have a nice day. It has to be tough, though, being a rancid mood all
the time...

Fine
"BGKM" wrote in message news:Tq6Jh.1047$2%3.41@trndny06...
you can say what ever you want.... but in RW there are plenty of assholes
and jerkoffs....
Someone post a simple question and odds are he gets 6 morons who post just
to post and 1 guy who knows ****.

But honestly don't waste your time, you offer me nothing... You have
nothing of value and your words just empty.

Read your stuff!!! It's as if you just speak to hear yourself talk!


wrote in message
ps.com...
Well, whoever you are, you missed the entire point of what I wrote.
The lewd, perverted language are the names you call people and the way
you abuse their mothers or fathers or daughters or sons. For some odd
reason, you decide you need to post this stuff to a newsgroup such as
rec.woodworking. It does not belong here. I think I remember
somebody here said they don't care if you are American or Iranian;
Christian or Muslim, he would talk to anybody about woodworking--I
think we all would. That is why we are members of this newsgroup. I
know I am not here to argue about something like this, WHICHEVER side
I am on, and I see merits to both sides. I know I exposed myself to
you with that statement but, frankly, I can't worry about that.

All I am trying to get across to you is this:

This is, first and foremost, a group of people who like to politely
and civilly discuss woodworking. It is not a political forum or a
place for name calling and/or belligerence. Even if you feel others
are being contentious to you, you need to look at yourself and your
actions. If anything you are saying is hostile, crude, nasty, pick a
synonym, then you do not have the right to say that people have not
been respectful of you and your opinion. This is a place where we can
get away from 'the real world' even if it is just for a little while.
For me, it serves as a diversion and a place where I can learn from
other people's experiences about working with wood. Every once in a
while, an off-topic story is submitted--it may be funny, it may be
personal, it may be of days of yore--and these, too, are enjoyable.

Whenever a person reads drivel like "and your's that your infertile
and retarded?" or "No your fat whore Mother just left! You know she
ashamed to have such a failure girlie man for a son who still lives
under her roof." or "HEY JT, LEON MARK and JOSE! GRAB YOU GEAR
HALLIBURTON CAN USE SOME WOODWORKER'S! Fight them Jihadist over there"
and other nonsense like that, do you really think anybody who is a
mature adult would even give the author any sort of respect? Again,
no matter WHICH side of the coin he/she is on?

If you want respect, treat others with respect even if you think they
are not respecting you and your opinion. And respecting people is not
limited to not calling them names, it is also consideration of the
people in a newsgroup and paying attention as to why they are members
of a newsgroup. Post the occasional off topic message, I don't think
anybody will gripe about that. Flood the place, then you will meet
resistance. Face the facts. You would do the same thing is you were
in their shoes--you ARE doing the same thing, which is making this
place more like a zoo everyday.

I am sorry if I do not say "Rah-Rah, BGKM!! Go get 'em!!" I could
not, in good conscience, ever come to respect a man who treats others
with such disregard and belligerence. And, truth be told, from
everything I have witnessed, you are the one who started the mud-
slinging when people dared to disagree with your point of view. It
was you who started saying nasty things then others responded the same
way. I am not saying that they were right in responding that way but,
then again, they didn't expect such venom when they disagreed with a
point of view.

Geesh.

Oh, by the way, saying my name over and over and over again is a way
to nicely mock me.

Better then stuck in Iraq! You know you really shouldn't assume so
much.............you're so often wrong!
wrote in message
ups.com...
Gee, BGKM,

Have a nice day. It has to be tough, though, being a rancid mood all
the time...

)