I appreciate all the advice and insight I got on the original posting
called "Is it worth a career change?"
But let's suppose I'm either dumb or stubborn or both and wanted to
open up a business despite your admonishments not to. Yes, I've decided
a Woodcraft store is probably not the right thing to do. But now I'm
"kinda sorta" stuck on a place that sells exotic lumber. Let me pursue
that idea a little .....

I've found a place for sale. I don't know the details, we've arranged
to meet December 28'th. Or would it be better to not buy an existing
business and start fresh? Note, if I buy the business, part of the deal
would be to show me the ropes for a few months.

Does anyone know where to find suppliers?

Where to turners usually buy their wood? (I'm not a turner.)

Do a lot of you use mail-order or internet ordering?

Is exotic woods next on Home Depot's expansion plans?

What's the mark-up on exotic lumber? How much just never gets sold
because it's "not pretty enough?"

On 11 Dec 2006 10:02:05 -0800, Never Enough Money wrote:

I appreciate all the advice and insight I got on the original posting
called "Is it worth a career change?"
But let's suppose I'm either dumb or stubborn or both and wanted to
open up a business despite your admonishments not to. Yes, I've decided
a Woodcraft store is probably not the right thing to do. But now I'm
"kinda sorta" stuck on a place that sells exotic lumber. Let me pursue
that idea a little .....

I've found a place for sale. I don't know the details, we've arranged
to meet December 28'th. Or would it be better to not buy an existing
business and start fresh? Note, if I buy the business, part of the deal
would be to show me the ropes for a few months.

Nothing wrong with buying a running business, especially if its been run well
and is paying the owner a decent take-home amount. You gain significant
advantages doing so, including an existing customer base, and established
supplier relationships (and maybe even existing credit with them). And that
the current owner will provide some education is a plus.

You do need to be certain that the business has been run reasonably well. You
don't want to find that suppliers refuse to sell to you because of shoddy past
business practices, for example.

You don't mention if you'd be assuming any existing debt. Check into that,
too. You have to be comfortable with -all- of the things associated with the
business.

Is real estate (warehouse and offices) part of the deal, too? If it is, you'll
need to become familiar with the local regulations that govern this type of
business.

Are you thinking of running this until you retire? Have you thought about a
succession plan?

Where to turners usually buy their wood? (I'm not a turner.)

Nor am I. Maybe ask at rec.crafts.woodturning?

Do a lot of you use mail-order or internet ordering?

I do, from time to time. There are no really good suppliers of exotics local
to me, so for some species that's my only choice (either that, or drive 2
hours or more each way).

Does anyone know where to find suppliers?

Is exotic woods next on Home Depot's expansion plans?

What's the mark-up on exotic lumber? How much just never gets sold
because it's "not pretty enough?"

These are all great questions, and the current owner should be able to answer
all of them, perhaps with the exception of the one regarding possible future
competition. I'd expect him to know at least a little about his current
competition. You should not just consider Big Box stores as potential
competitors, BTW.

--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net

disclaimer: I've never run a business myself (other than being a
self-employed IT consultant for years and years). I've been doing a
lot of research into this subject with the anticipation of buying some
kind of franchise or business or something.

Never Enough Money wrote:
I've found a place for sale. I don't know the details, we've arranged
to meet December 28'th. Or would it be better to not buy an existing
business and start fresh? Note, if I buy the business, part of the deal
would be to show me the ropes for a few months.

You need to look at all of the books for the company. They should be
in pristine condition. It should be obvious how well the business is
being run. It should also be obvious what the cash flow is. If you're
taking out a loan to buy the business, that should obviously be figured
into the cash flow. You should be asking yourself when you get your
money back.

Does anyone know where to find suppliers?

The previous owner should be a great resource for this. Once you have
his supplier list, call the suppliers and ask them to recommending
other suppliers who have things they don't have. In short, build a
network of relationships with your suppliers.

Where to turners usually buy their wood? (I'm not a turner.)

Me neither. Can't help there.

Do a lot of you use mail-order or internet ordering?

I would if I were buying veneers. I'm not there yet though.

Is exotic woods next on Home Depot's expansion plans?

I *really* doubt it. They make money on high volume.

What's the mark-up on exotic lumber? How much just never gets sold
because it's "not pretty enough?"

I bought a maple board from kettle-moraine up by mulwaukee. It had
previously been marked as quilted (or something) maple, but had that
scribbled out and was tossed in with the regular maple boards. Now
that I've planed it, some of it is quilted maple. I suspect it didn't
move as a figured wood, so they sold it as a regular board. So I'm
sure it happens. It's probably hard to predict how much. Keep a tuned
block plane and a squirt bottle of water or alcohol or something to
expose the grain for perspective buyers.

No matter what the business is, whether you buy one or start your own,
you need to do what is called "due diligence". This basically means
you need to investigate everything. And I mean everything. If a
building is included, does the EPA have a problem with the property?
Are there city rules that you'll be running up against? Unpaid taxes
or liens? Did the property used to be a gas station? Does the
business have tax problems? Is the main drag out in front about to go
through a year long construction project that will limit (or totally
destroy) customer traffic to the site? What is the current owner
hiding from you? Is a major competitor about to open across the
street? Find out why he's selling and make sure the story adds up.
There are books out there that list questions like these you should ask
and public records you should investigate.

If you get it going and you're here in the chicago area, let me know.
I'd like to find a source for reasonably priced specialty plywoods,
like baltic birch, MDO, or that phenolic coated stuff.

brian

Never Enough Money wrote:
I appreciate all the advice and insight I got on the original posting
called "Is it worth a career change?"
But let's suppose I'm either dumb or stubborn or both and wanted to
open up a business despite your admonishments not to. Yes, I've decided
a Woodcraft store is probably not the right thing to do. But now I'm
"kinda sorta" stuck on a place that sells exotic lumber. Let me pursue
that idea a little .....

I've found a place for sale. I don't know the details, we've arranged
to meet December 28'th. Or would it be better to not buy an existing
business and start fresh? Note, if I buy the business, part of the deal
would be to show me the ropes for a few months.

Also think about a no-compete clause. In a town near here a man had a
thriving HVAC business. He sold it for a couple million, then started
another in another name and just plowed the old business under. See a
lawyer (as much as I hate to say that) before the meeting, if possible.
It's better to be hard headed in business. If you trust the ethics of
someone else, he may not have any.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

All things being equal, fat people use
more soap.

The business of business is business - not woodworking.

If you want to explore a potential business opportunity purchase, find and
accountant business opportunity agent and maybe a good book on buying an
existing business.

Don't ask craftsmen on the wreck!

You need to determine what your motivation(s) is/are. Then if the
opportunity will supply what you desire emotionally, and economically in
exchange for the commitment(s) demanded.

Sometimes, its simpler to work for another to earn money for your expertise
in wood working.

But, if you're a businessman(person) the thrill of the markup may prove more
satisfying than the sound of the saw and the aroma of freshly cut Oak or
Hickory.

Purchasing an existing operation offers an existing customer base and "good
will" that can save you the long (sometimes five years or so) startup
agonies.

The difference between the Fair Market Value of the stock, supplies and
hardware offered and the purchase price demanded equates to the charge for
this intangible aspect of a business venture.

Yu want to figure in a salary for the "owner" commensurate with the time
demanded of him/her as part of the operational cost PAY YOURSELF FIRST.

The remaining net is divided by the purchase price to determine the Return
on Invested Capital.

If you can do better buying a CD, adjust your offer downward accordingly to
reach the return (on a risky venture as all business' are) you demand.





"Art Greenberg" wrote in message
...
On 11 Dec 2006 10:02:05 -0800, Never Enough Money wrote:

I appreciate all the advice and insight I got on the original posting
called "Is it worth a career change?"
But let's suppose I'm either dumb or stubborn or both and wanted to
open up a business despite your admonishments not to. Yes, I've decided
a Woodcraft store is probably not the right thing to do. But now I'm
"kinda sorta" stuck on a place that sells exotic lumber. Let me pursue
that idea a little .....

I've found a place for sale. I don't know the details, we've arranged
to meet December 28'th. Or would it be better to not buy an existing
business and start fresh? Note, if I buy the business, part of the deal
would be to show me the ropes for a few months.

Nothing wrong with buying a running business, especially if its been run
well
and is paying the owner a decent take-home amount. You gain significant
advantages doing so, including an existing customer base, and established
supplier relationships (and maybe even existing credit with them). And
that
the current owner will provide some education is a plus.

You do need to be certain that the business has been run reasonably well.
You
don't want to find that suppliers refuse to sell to you because of shoddy
past
business practices, for example.

You don't mention if you'd be assuming any existing debt. Check into that,
too. You have to be comfortable with -all- of the things associated with
the
business.

Is real estate (warehouse and offices) part of the deal, too? If it is,
you'll
need to become familiar with the local regulations that govern this type
of
business.

Are you thinking of running this until you retire? Have you thought about
a
succession plan?

Where to turners usually buy their wood? (I'm not a turner.)

Nor am I. Maybe ask at rec.crafts.woodturning?

Do a lot of you use mail-order or internet ordering?

I do, from time to time. There are no really good suppliers of exotics
local
to me, so for some species that's my only choice (either that, or drive 2
hours or more each way).

Does anyone know where to find suppliers?

Is exotic woods next on Home Depot's expansion plans?

What's the mark-up on exotic lumber? How much just never gets sold
because it's "not pretty enough?"

These are all great questions, and the current owner should be able to
answer
all of them, perhaps with the exception of the one regarding possible
future
competition. I'd expect him to know at least a little about his current
competition. You should not just consider Big Box stores as potential
competitors, BTW.

--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net

My two cents worth. By the way I grew up in a family that ran a small
business and do not estimate the amount of time it can consume. On the
other hand, if it is something you enjoy, it is very fulfilling.

....................if I buy the business, part of the deal
would be to show me the ropes for a few months.

Base on some of your questions, I think buying an existing business with a
WRITTEN agreement that the owner will train you might be a good idea,

Does anyone know where to find suppliers?

Answer above.
Where to turners usually buy their wood? (I'm not a turner.)

Anwer above. However, a lot of turners cut their own wood and dry it.

Do a lot of you use mail-order or internet ordering?

I have never ordered wood from the internet and do not plan to do so. Most
I have seen on internet sites is priced above local. This does not include
the true exotics. The only source in our area (Wichita, KS) is a small
business and I am not sure they still handle true exotics.


Is exotic woods next on Home Depot's expansion plans?

I wouldn't worry about that. HD and Lowes are absolutely the highest priced
places in our area to buy hardwood.

What's the mark-up on exotic lumber? How much just never gets sold
because it's "not pretty enough?"

Another reason you might consider buying the existing business. The owner
will provide this info.

RonB

"Never Enough Money" wrote in
ups.com:

snip

Where to turners usually buy their wood? (I'm not a turner.)

snip

Turners frequently harvest their own wood, whenever possible. Large pieces
are easier to turn wet, and hard to dry prior to cutting. And green wood
grows on trees, pretty much everywhere.

Some exotics are purchased. That gets you into the higher-dollar,
questionable sourcing issues of imported materials. Some folks may be
entirely ethical. Hard to really say whats happened everywhere along the
line.

Good luck with your quest. I wish you well.

Patriarch,
not quite a beginning turner, an experienced telco guy of your
generation...

Never Enough Money wrote:

snipped

Yes, I've decided
a Woodcraft store is probably not the right thing to do. But now I'm
"kinda sorta" stuck on a place that sells exotic lumber. Let me pursue
that idea a little .....

Does anyone know where to find suppliers?

Central America. The owner of the hardwood supply where I purchase my
exotic hardwoods now spends about half his time in Brazil.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Hmmm. Bet he writes those trips off... I smell another "advantage" to
owning.....

On Dec 11, 7:45 pm, Nova wrote:
Never Enough Money wrote:snipped

Yes, I've decided
a Woodcraft store is probably not the right thing to do. But now I'm
"kinda sorta" stuck on a place that sells exotic lumber. Let me pursue
that idea a little .....
Does anyone know where to find suppliers?Central America. The owner of the hardwood supply where I purchase my
exotic hardwoods now spends about half his time in Brazil.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Never Enough Money wrote:

I appreciate all the advice and insight I got on the original posting
called "Is it worth a career change?"
But let's suppose I'm either dumb or stubborn or both and wanted to
open up a business despite your admonishments not to. Yes, I've decided
a Woodcraft store is probably not the right thing to do. But now I'm
"kinda sorta" stuck on a place that sells exotic lumber. Let me pursue
that idea a little .....

I've found a place for sale. I don't know the details, we've arranged
to meet December 28'th. Or would it be better to not buy an existing
business and start fresh? Note, if I buy the business, part of the deal
would be to show me the ropes for a few months.

Does anyone know where to find suppliers?

Where to turners usually buy their wood? (I'm not a turner.)

Do a lot of you use mail-order or internet ordering?

Is exotic woods next on Home Depot's expansion plans?

What's the mark-up on exotic lumber? How much just never gets sold
because it's "not pretty enough?"

What's all this stuff about erotic lumber?

resrfglc wrote:
The business of business is business - not woodworking.

If you want to explore a potential business opportunity purchase, find and
accountant business opportunity agent and maybe a good book on buying an
existing business.

Don't ask craftsmen on the wreck!

You need to determine what your motivation(s) is/are. Then if the
opportunity will supply what you desire emotionally, and economically in
exchange for the commitment(s) demanded.

Sometimes, its simpler to work for another to earn money for your expertise
in wood working.

But, if you're a businessman(person) the thrill of the markup may prove more
satisfying than the sound of the saw and the aroma of freshly cut Oak or
Hickory.

Purchasing an existing operation offers an existing customer base and "good
will" that can save you the long (sometimes five years or so) startup
agonies.

The difference between the Fair Market Value of the stock, supplies and
hardware offered and the purchase price demanded equates to the charge for
this intangible aspect of a business venture.

Yu want to figure in a salary for the "owner" commensurate with the time
demanded of him/her as part of the operational cost PAY YOURSELF FIRST.

The remaining net is divided by the purchase price to determine the Return
on Invested Capital.

If you can do better buying a CD, adjust your offer downward accordingly to
reach the return (on a risky venture as all business' are) you demand.






A starting point for the price is 5x EBITDA less Outstanding Debt plus
Cash, which will be -0- at acquisition, because there is little need to
buy cash. EBIDTA should be adjusted to reflect a proper salary for
yourself. That's an implied irr of 20%, which depending on your growth
assumptions may provide an adequate risk adjusted return. If you don't
understand what I just said, hire someone who does.

As for a written agreement with the owner to "train you." That's a
good idea. A better idea however is three payouts to the owner in 1, 2
and 3 years down the road based on profits/ebitda/cash flow. Having
his payout based on your performance is a much better motivation than
an agreement to "train" you.

Having said all that, I think you're making a mistake, but hope I'm
wrong.

A.M. Wood

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
ps.com...
Hmmm. Bet he writes those trips off... I smell another "advantage" to
owning.....

Of course it is a write off however keep in mind that a business trip
always costs more than the write off gains.

One thing that others have not mentioned here, and that is trying to
establish exactly what kind of market this store has established, and
how it was cultivated.

If you are going to sell exotics, then I certainly have nothing of
value to add to all the advice and opinions here. And of course, if
you are selling to the general public, they won't pay enough of your
bills on a regular and routine basis to stay in business long.
Contractors, professional woodworkers, cabinets shops that buy from you
once/twice a week with a few hundred dollars an order will keep you in
good shape monetarily; a guy that ties a few boards a month to the ski
rails on top of his Yukon won't do much for your bottom line. In fact,
our biggest local hardwood dealer here hates hobby/DIY guys, and
doesn't like orders under $100.

But if you are going to sell the stuff that contractors and cabinet
makers use on a daily basis - maple, birch, poplar, oak(s), walnut,
etc., I have a word or three on that. You need to look closely at the
nature of the relationship between the supplier and his clients, and
determine if you can continue those relationship.

A lumberyard down the road from my house (less than two miles!) and I
have been doing business for about 10 years together. I knew everyone
in the joint. They bought me lunch about once a year, and I took out
their manager three or four times a year. This is certainly the opposite of normal, but they gave me great service and made sure my materials were ready for me when my guys (or me) got there to pick them up so we didn't have any skylarking around in the yard. Everything was peachy, and me and the other contractors that were there were really happy. I purchased about 5 - 10K a month there, so I was bigger than most of their accts. (it IS a small yard) and smaller than others.

So the last manager went to greener pastures. The owner decided that
it was time for him to "pick up the flag" and get back in the middle of
things. He hired a man to help him co-manage the store that had little
experience in hardware (which isn't that big of a deal). I believe all
things can be learned, certainly the basics of hardware supply isn't as
hard as many jobs.

But dealing with contractors is different. He was a quality control
specialist in the computer chip manufacturing business, and specialized
in "clean manufacturing environment controls". He bought a pair of Red
Wing boots and some stone washed jeans, and quit wearing a tie to work.
So topped with a plaid shirt and adding a little rough language here
and there, he thought he was right in the mix.

Nope.

He is unable to carry on a conversation over a plate of barbeque which
is where we usually resolve our problems. We all know what it is like
to be in business for years, and all of us have wrestled the same
monsters of employees, all manner of taxes, litigation, market trends,
hard times, good times, etc. We all know that everyone's time is
important, not just ours.

So we all speak the same language and even though the age differences
in my group of compadres is about 25 years from top to bottom, we all
get along with each other because we DO speak the same language. The
new manager does not. As a successful clean environment manager, he
was apparently successful so he believes himself to be a good manager.
Maybe in his old life, he was. But now he is struggling, and wants to
run the yard like he thinks it should be run, which is not the way it
was run to make it successful.

Here's an example: He told me that although he didn't have his own
company, he had plenty of responsibilities so I shouldn't take him for
granted or expect him to come to the phone when I called. He was after
all, the manager. So if I wanted to know the status of a delivery of
shingles that was two hours late I should call him as he didn't have
the time for every little detail of the day (a macro manager?) and he
would come to the phone when he could. $2700 worth of shingles being
delivered to $70 an hour of waiting labor was more than a small detail
to me, but clearly not to him.) I spoke to him about this incident
once my shingle were found and delivered, but he clearly didn't see why
there was a problem. He felt like all contractors built a large amount
of "fudge" into their bids, so eating a couple of hours of time
shouldn't be that big of a deal.

The problem is that when you meet this guy he is as nice as can be, and
really sharp. But he is wrong headed, and thinks the rest of the world
thinks like him and should see the brilliance of his management
training. And after reading all of his marketing books, he has decided
that the thing they need to do at the yard is to "develop a new
clientele". Yeah, right. It's working well for them, to be sure.
When I drive by during the day, the yard is usually empty (but really
clean!). I personally bought only $126 of material from them last
month, and nothing at all the month before, same for the month before
that. Bet they are missing that steady 5K a month now.

But the new manager has been unable to resolve any of his issues with
any of us contractors because he knows he is right about things.
Consequently, we have all gone somewhere else to buy materials. They
have had a 60 - 65% loss in total contractor sales, and the store may
not survive. 30 years to build it into a profitable center, and just
10 months to tear it down.

The moral is this: be careful of what you are getting into, and know
your market well. Just because you do a good job organizing and have
good merchandise doesn't mean anyone will like you or do business with
you. It is more complicated than that. You should not take for
granted that simply buying the business will be good for it, not even
with your laundry list of improvements. You need to learn your
clientele and see if you are a good fit. I am now driving further and
paying more to get what I want, and so are the rest of my fellow
contractors. And unless one of the contractors goes back to the store
for a while and has some successful transactions and can give us "the
all clear" sign, none of us will be back.

Robert

Hmmm. Sounds like someone wants instant money and some on the side.
Motivation should drive one to success NOT money . That will come after
success. More success more money. Nothing comes easy
"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
ps.com...
Hmmm. Bet he writes those trips off... I smell another "advantage" to
owning.....

On Dec 11, 7:45 pm, Nova wrote:
Never Enough Money wrote:snipped

Yes, I've decided
a Woodcraft store is probably not the right thing to do. But now I'm
"kinda sorta" stuck on a place that sells exotic lumber. Let me pursue
that idea a little .....
Does anyone know where to find suppliers?Central America. The owner of
the hardwood supply where I purchase my
exotic hardwoods now spends about half his time in Brazil.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Never Enough Money wrote:
Hmmm. Bet he writes those trips off... I smell another "advantage" to
owning.....

Remember, you still have to pay for it to write it off. G

On 11 Dec 2006 10:02:05 -0800, "Never Enough Money"
wrote:

Does anyone know where to find suppliers?

Not to fill a retail shop.

Where to turners usually buy their wood? (I'm not a turner.)

I usually don't- but if you're going to cater to turners and offer
exotic blanks, I might buy them from you... Especially if they're
larger blanks. Biggest problem with ordering them is that most are
too small for anything I want to make.

Do a lot of you use mail-order or internet ordering?

For wood, no.

Is exotic woods next on Home Depot's expansion plans?

What's the mark-up on exotic lumber? How much just never gets sold
because it's "not pretty enough?"

Mon, Dec 11, 2006, 10:02am (EST-3)
(Never*Enough*Money) is still wanting to go broke:
I appreciate all the advice and insight I got on the original posting
called "Is it worth a career change?"
But let's suppose I'm either dumb or stubborn or both and wanted to open
up a business despite your admonishments not to. snip

No prob. That's up to you. But if I wasw you I wouldn't quit my
day job.

I won't guarantee this is 100% accurate, but I would think it's
pretty damn close. I read once that 90% of all new businesses fail in
the first year of business; then about 90% of the surviving businesses
fail within the first five years of business. Those that are still in
business after five years supposedly have a quite good chance of staying
in business.

You've found a place for sale. Judging from what you posted this
time, I'd say you've still got a LOT of homework to do before you start
putting out money. A lot of successful businesses were started
part-time, out of someone's home or garage. You don't know zip about
what you want to do, but you still want to spend a lot of money doing
it. Souinds kinda trollish, wouldn't you say? But, if you're serious,
and still want to spend money, you might want to buy part of an already
established business, and I don't mean oe that's just opened, one that's
been in business for a few years. OR, start a part-time business out of
your garage - that way if you go botom up because of lack of adequate
homework you won't be out a load of money, and you can always use the
leftover stock yourself.

Me, I decided long ago not to use any wood not native, or grown in,
North Carolina. With the exception of plywood, and no-one knows where
plywood grows, and free wood - which includes pallet wood. So, the only
"exotic" woods I'll be using would either be something out of a pallet,
or something someone gives me. That's just a choice I made some years
back. If someone wants to send me some free "furrin" wood, I'd be more
than happy to use it. As is, I do have a small stash of some nice
Spanish cedar I got from a pallet, quite awhile back, just not made up
my mind yet what I want to make with it.

Hell, you want to sell wood, get yourself one of those portable
bandsaw mills, and arrange to pickup trees that've been taken down to
make all those damn subdivisions going up. Free wood, sell cheap, you
can damn sure betcha if I had room that's what I'd be doing.

You're a big boy now, you'd should be figuring all this stuff out
on your own, instead of looking for someone to tell you what to do and
how to do it. Now, that'll be $100 consulting fee, and a bargain at
half the price. You can use PayPal, or send a postal money order, just
e-mail me for details on transferring funds. Send the money before you
start your business, I want to be sure you'll have the funds.



JOAT
I am, therefore I think.

On 11 Dec 2006 19:13:14 -0800, wrote:

You should not take for
granted that simply buying the business will be good for it, not even
with your laundry list of improvements.

Lot of good points there, and directly above is one of the best.

Good intentions don't make for improvements- I've been through a
couple of changes in management as an employee over the years, and it
seems like every time a new guy steps in, they feel they have to make
their mark by "improving" things- sometimes that works, but far more
often than not, the laundry list of improvements ends up alienating
not only the employees, but the customers and suppliers as well.

You need to learn your
clientele and see if you are a good fit. I am now driving further and
paying more to get what I want, and so are the rest of my fellow
contractors. And unless one of the contractors goes back to the store
for a while and has some successful transactions and can give us "the
all clear" sign, none of us will be back.

Robert

Ouch.

First let me defend myself a little. See my responses embedded.....


J T wrote:
[snip]
You've found a place for sale. Judging from what you posted this
time, I'd say you've still got a LOT of homework to do before you start
putting out money. A lot of successful businesses were started
part-time, out of someone's home or garage. You don't know zip about
what you want to do, but you still want to spend a lot of money doing
it. Souinds kinda trollish, wouldn't you say? But, if you're serious,
and still want to spend money, you might want to buy part of an already
established business, and I don't mean oe that's just opened, one that's
been in business for a few years. OR, start a part-time business out of
your garage - that way if you go botom up because of lack of adequate
homework you won't be out a load of money, and you can always use the
leftover stock yourself.

Hmmm. The posting was the beginning of the "homework." I know I have a
lot to do and if you knew me you'd know how I analize things to the
max. These postings have garnered me a lot of good points and now I can
begin to get serious. The part-time apparoach willnot work for me. I'm
changing jobs whether I like it or not (either through "forced" early
retirement). I stil have a mortgage and kids in college so I won't be
doing anything unless I feel strongly that it'sa sure thing.

Me, I decided long ago not to use any wood not native, or grown in,
North Carolina. [snip]
Do you have any persimmon or pecan? Know where I might find some?

Hell, you want to sell wood, get yourself one of those portable
bandsaw mills, and arrange to pickup trees that've been taken down to
make all those damn subdivisions going up. Free wood, sell cheap, you
can damn sure betcha if I had room that's what I'd be doing.
My paternal grandfather made a fortune with the first portable sawmill
in western South Carolina back in the 1930's. He lost the fortune later
on wine, women, and gambling, though.

You're a big boy now, you'd should be figuring all this stuff out
on your own, instead of looking for someone to tell you what to do and
how to do it. Now, that'll be $100 consulting fee, and a bargain at
half the price. You can use PayPal, or send a postal money order, just
e-mail me for details on transferring funds. Send the money before you
start your business, I want to be sure you'll have the funds.
The check is in the mail. BTW, I'm looking for people's advice,
experience, and opinions -- I'll decide for myself what I want to do.
Everybody uses "advisors" whether they're a "big boy" or not.



JOAT
I am, therefore I think.

Ever hear about a "woodie"?

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:40:07 -0800, jo4hn
wrote:


Is exotic woods next on Home Depot's expansion plans?

What's the mark-up on exotic lumber? How much just never gets sold
because it's "not pretty enough?"

What's all this stuff about erotic lumber?

Never Enough Money wrote:
I appreciate all the advice and insight I got on the original posting
called "Is it worth a career change?"
But let's suppose I'm either dumb or stubborn or both and wanted to
open up a business despite your admonishments not to. Yes, I've decided
a Woodcraft store is probably not the right thing to do. But now I'm
"kinda sorta" stuck on a place that sells exotic lumber. Let me pursue
that idea a little .....


Man, if I was you, I'd ask the guy for a record of recent years sales,
where he buys his stuff from (and other operational quesitons), etc.

Why is the guy selling? Maybe it's because he's not making any money at
it? You must consider this.

Another thing to keep in mind.. How much in demand are exotic woods?
What's his existing client base? Are there any current customers that
would give you some reliable repeat business.

I think this would be a tough business to get into. The hobbyists that
just need a board or two are going to go to a place like Woodcraft..
that's where I go if I want one piece of Bloodwood or whatever. Are you
going to be cost competitve enough to sell Maple/oak/whatever to the
local cabinent shops or serious hobbyists.. For example, some friends
and I order about 600 board feet about every 2 years. There's a place
that gives us a great volume discount on FAS grade wood when we order
that much and gives us free delivery. Are you going to be able to
compete with a place like that.

I'm a bit concerned that this business is a very small niche. Look over
everything carefully. It might even be worth getting someone
experienced in running their own business to help look over the paper
work.

If you really want to open your own business, have you considered a
laundrymat (I've read that's the business that has the smallest rate of
failure), or maybe one of those janitor franchises, or some other
franchise? True, it won't be wood, but based on people I've talked to,
as soon as you turn a hobby into a business, it's no longer fun. I have
a friend that ran his own pet store for 6 years. He hates pets now, and
is pretty bitter about the whole experience.

In regards to your other question: A lot of turners harvest their wood
from downed trees. I'm sure some pay big bucks for those exotic bowl
blanks at woodcraft, but a lot of turners get their bowl wood for free.

Never Enough Money wrote:

Hmmm. Bet he writes those trips off... I smell another "advantage" to
owning.....


Good memory!

I'd imagine... along with at least part of the cost of his private
airplane, pilot licensing fees and the house he bought in Florida to be
based about half way between Buffalo and Brazil.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Never Enough Money :

Does anyone know where to find suppliers?

Where to turners usually buy their wood? (I'm not a turner.)

Do a lot of you use mail-order or internet ordering?

Is exotic woods next on Home Depot's expansion plans?

What's the mark-up on exotic lumber? How much just never gets sold
because it's "not pretty enough?"

These are very good questions and you need to figure them out on
the basis of your market. You have to decide who your customers
are going to be, what are they doing now to satisfy their needs and
finally what are the numbers for the business - cost of material,
taxes, rent, utilities, salaries, etc.

I'd find someone in area, if possible, who is with SCORE. This
is a group that helps upstart businesses or those who are in
trouble to get the right info. Also check your finances. How long
can you go WITHOUT pay? Can you may your utilities, food, insurance,
gas, car payments for 6 mos or a year?

Perhaps, you could arrange to the "big guy" in this business, that
is allow the present owner be the day-to-day manager and you
just are the finance guy behind him.Would allow you to continue
in your present job and gradually get a sense of what it will take
to run the business on your own.

As far as HD - I doubt they would stack exotic lumber. The volume
they deal in is far to great - most people wouldn't know what do with
it
and it would hit/miss as to the quality and form (you might get mostly
rough cut lumber is odd sizes).

I'd also seekout advice from high-end cabinet shops in your area
or find a woodworking group. Got to be one nearby. Find out where
they buy their lumber. That will give you a lot of start.

I wish you a lot of luck but it appears you are on the road here
and just want some advice to keep you there. If it were me,
you're dates are a bit too rushed - there is so much to consider.

Our local community college has a small-business center and
they have a lot of courses on how to startup a business and
maintain it. Look for something similar in your area.

MJ Wallace

Tue, Dec 12, 2006, 5:44am (EST-3)
(Never*Enough*Money) doth sayeth:
snip Hmmm. The posting was the beginning of the "homework." I know I
have a lot to do and if you knew me you'd know how I analize things to
the max. These postings have garnered me a lot of good points and now I
can begin to get serious. The part-time apparoach willnot work for me.
I'm changing jobs whether I like it or not (either through "forced"
early retirement). I stil have a mortgage and kids in college so I won't
be doing anything unless I feel strongly that it'sa sure thing.
Do you have any persimmon or pecan? Know where I might find some?
My paternal grandfather made a fortune with the first portable sawmill
in western South Carolina back in the 1930's. He lost the fortune later
on wine, women, and gambling, though.
The check is in the mail. BTW, I'm looking for people's advice,
experience, and opinions -- I'll decide for myself what I want to do.
Everybody uses "advisors" whether they're a "big boy" or not.

When you start talking about buying a bsiness at the end of Dec, and
still asking all these questions, doesn't sound to me like you done
enough homework. You can start out of your garage, or rent.

I doungt I'd know how you analize things, no matter how well I knew
you. My mother knows me and she she has no clue how I analizy things,
nor do my sons.

Sure the part-time approach will work. If you're retired, you'll
have money coming in, that should cover the mortgage, and tell the
kid(s) to get a job. So, get another job, doing something, to put food
on the table, and pay daily expenses. Then start part-time.

Sure thing, eh? Death and taxes. That's the only sure things I
know of.

Don't got no persimmon or pecan. And wouldn't let you have it if I
did, I'd use it myself.. I would imagine you could get some from one of
the sawmills around here.

Well, your grandfather made it, so it was his money to spend. At
least he didn't wast it.

I at times do ask kpeople for advice, but seldom for their
opinions. Sometimes the advice gives me something new to think about,
sometimes not. Usually the opinion starts out, "What I'd do is", and is
usually a complete crock. So, my "advice" is, to get a day job, and
don't quit it just yet. My "opinion" is, it ain't gonna be as easy as
you seem to think - it's gonna need to be primed with money, hard work,
a lot of work, probably more money, befor you start pumping money out.
My "experience" is, you're not gonna be the next Bill Gates of the wood
business.

I'm sure you will decide for yourslef.
A final parting shot. I knew an officer that invented a helmet
stand. It folded up, and was meant to hold a helmet for washing,
shaving, whatever. He actually was granted a patent for it. Only cost
hime about $10,000 U.S. He figured he get a gubmint contract and make a
small fortune selling these to the military. Then he found out that
he'd invented something that didn't solve a problem. turned out people
would rather set the helmet on the tailgate of a vehicle, on the ground,
or wherever, rather than have an extra piece of gear to set up, take
down, and generally mess with. And it only cost him $10,000 to learn
that. Because he didn't do enough homework.

I'll repeat myself here. Get a day job. Start your business
part-time, out of your garage, or some cheap rental place. Then IF it
gets off the ground, consider quitting your day job then. But, if you
really want to start full bore, instead of baby seps, I'd still say you
should do pretty well wigh a portable bandsaw,collecting free timber to
saw and sell, and custom sawing - at least to start. You might want to
look into a used mill first, and I'd talk to a few owners if it was me.
Whatever you do, I'd advise not putting a dime on a credit card, talk to
your local bank about some type of loan instead. Credit card interest
will eat your ass up. The fee is now $150.



JOAT
Where does Batman buy gas for the Batmobile?