I would like to know a good way to apply the last coat of poly on a
dining table top.

I am almost done with re-finishing the dining table top. I have
painted many coats of poly, and sanded it many times. Now, the table
top is very smooth. After I have applied a coat of poly with a natural
bristle brush or a foam brush, I find that the surface in general is
very smooth -- but there are too many little bubbles. Using a rag is
better; but I still get enough bubbles that I want something better.
Spraying poly from a spray can is good; but the surface feels very
grainy, not glossy smooth at all.

What should I do?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Jay Chan

Have you considered a wipe-on poly? Try thinning your poly 50/50 and
wiping it on with a lint-free rag or paper towel. The goal is a VERY
thin rubbed-in coat, almost like an oil finish.

Jeff Jewitt described application of Sherwin Williams Fast Dry Oil
Based Varnish using Viva paper towels in FWW a couple of years ago.
The Viva towels are smooth and don't leave a pattern in the finish. A
1:1 mix of varnish and Naptha, flashes off faster, using plastic
squirt jug and wiping on up to 3 coats a day. Use gloss only to avoid
stripes.

On 08 Dec 2006 12:34:32 -0500, DJ Delorie wrote:


Have you considered a wipe-on poly? Try thinning your poly 50/50 and
wiping it on with a lint-free rag or paper towel. The goal is a VERY
thin rubbed-in coat, almost like an oil finish.

DJ Delorie wrote:
Have you considered a wipe-on poly? Try thinning your poly 50/50 and
wiping it on with a lint-free rag or paper towel. The goal is a VERY
thin rubbed-in coat, almost like an oil finish.

Thanks for the suggestion of using wipe-on-poly. I have just finished
putting the first coat of wipe-on-poly on the dining table top. It
looks good -- no bubble; but I am putting the wipe-on-poly a bit too
thin. I will put on the second coat a bit thicker, and I am sure the
result will be even better.

Last time when I tried thinning poly with thinner, I still got bubbles.
I probably didn't thin it enough. The wipe-on-poly from the can is
already properly thinned. That is the reason why it works fine this
time; but didn't work last time when I thinned the poly myself.

Wipe-on-poly is great. But now I understand why people want to rub the
finish instead of relying on wipe-on-poly. Soon after I have put on
the wipe-on-poly, I start seeing a few dusts landing on the wet
surface. Sigh... Having said this, I will stick with wipe-on-poly for
now instead of rubbing the finish. The reason is that I need to have
the table ready for X'mas dinner. If I wanted to rub-in the finish, I
would need to wait one month for the poly to completely hardened before
I can start rubbing in order to achieve a high gloss finish (according
to a book on wood finishing). I don't have one month to wait. Anyway,
after a few years of hard use by my kids, I am sure I will need to
refinish the dining table. At that time, I will try rubbing the
finish.

Thanks again for the many good suggestions people have offered here.

Jay Chan

Sherwin Williams Fast Dry Oil Based Varnish thinned 1:1 with Naptha
and wiped with Viva paper towel, smooth surface towel, allows three
coats a day and dries fast! Fast dry reduces the falling dust
particles impact.

On 10 Dec 2006 19:04:38 -0800, wrote:

DJ Delorie wrote:
Have you considered a wipe-on poly? Try thinning your poly 50/50 and
wiping it on with a lint-free rag or paper towel. The goal is a VERY
thin rubbed-in coat, almost like an oil finish.

Thanks for the suggestion of using wipe-on-poly. I have just finished
putting the first coat of wipe-on-poly on the dining table top. It
looks good -- no bubble; but I am putting the wipe-on-poly a bit too
thin. I will put on the second coat a bit thicker, and I am sure the
result will be even better.

Last time when I tried thinning poly with thinner, I still got bubbles.
I probably didn't thin it enough. The wipe-on-poly from the can is
already properly thinned. That is the reason why it works fine this
time; but didn't work last time when I thinned the poly myself.

Wipe-on-poly is great. But now I understand why people want to rub the
finish instead of relying on wipe-on-poly. Soon after I have put on
the wipe-on-poly, I start seeing a few dusts landing on the wet
surface. Sigh... Having said this, I will stick with wipe-on-poly for
now instead of rubbing the finish. The reason is that I need to have
the table ready for X'mas dinner. If I wanted to rub-in the finish, I
would need to wait one month for the poly to completely hardened before
I can start rubbing in order to achieve a high gloss finish (according
to a book on wood finishing). I don't have one month to wait. Anyway,
after a few years of hard use by my kids, I am sure I will need to
refinish the dining table. At that time, I will try rubbing the
finish.

Thanks again for the many good suggestions people have offered here.

Jay Chan

writes:
but I am putting the wipe-on-poly a bit too thin.

No such thing. Try 2-3 coats if you think it's "not enough".

Last time when I tried thinning poly with thinner, I still got
bubbles. I probably didn't thin it enough.

Nope, way too thick, and you're probably still wiping it on, not
rubbing it on.

but didn't work last time when I thinned the poly myself.

50/50 ?

Soon after I have put on the wipe-on-poly, I start seeing a few
dusts landing on the wet surface.

Not thin enough. When I do wipe on poly, the coat is so thin it's
almost dry when I'm done rubbing (like oil, you wipe off any excess,
then rub the remainder in until it's dry-ish). It takes 10 coats to
get a sufficient finish, and even that "looks" thin when I'm all done.

Note that when I say "rubbing" I mean... what I do is dip a corner of
a folded paper towel into the poly, and rub the towel over the wood.
I rub firmly - I'm definitely rubbing the poly into the grain, not
just wiping a layer of poly on. This physical rubbing is what avoids
the bubbles, not just the thinness of the poly.

I don't mean I'm polishing the coats after they dry. I never do that.

DJ Delorie wrote:
writes:
but I am putting the wipe-on-poly a bit too thin.

No such thing. Try 2-3 coats if you think it's "not enough".

Last time when I tried thinning poly with thinner, I still got
bubbles. I probably didn't thin it enough.

Nope, way too thick, and you're probably still wiping it on, not
rubbing it on.

but didn't work last time when I thinned the poly myself.

50/50 ?

Soon after I have put on the wipe-on-poly, I start seeing a few
dusts landing on the wet surface.

Not thin enough. When I do wipe on poly, the coat is so thin it's
almost dry when I'm done rubbing (like oil, you wipe off any excess,
then rub the remainder in until it's dry-ish). It takes 10 coats to
get a sufficient finish, and even that "looks" thin when I'm all done.

Note that when I say "rubbing" I mean... what I do is dip a corner of
a folded paper towel into the poly, and rub the towel over the wood.
I rub firmly - I'm definitely rubbing the poly into the grain, not
just wiping a layer of poly on. This physical rubbing is what avoids
the bubbles, not just the thinness of the poly.

I don't mean I'm polishing the coats after they dry. I never do that.

What you have suggested is totally different from what the instruction
on the can of wipe-on-poly says. This really makes me interested.

Seem like you are rubbing in the poly wet, instead of rubbing the
dry/hardened poly. May I ask you the following questions:

If I understand you correctly, you rub the wipe-on-poly until it is dry
instead of waiting the poly to dry naturnally, right? And this is the
key to reduce the chance of getting dusts on the surface, right?

How soon do you put on the next coat? Do you wait for the poly to
completely hardened and then light-sand it, and then rub in the next
coat? Do you immediately put on the next coat right after you have
rubbed in the wipe-on-poly to dry? How long does 10 coats of doing
this take you?

Does this work on a surface that has already had 6 coats of poly and is
completely flat and smooth and no wood grain?

How does the finish look after 10 coats of your way of rubbing in the
wipe-on-poly? Should I expect to see a semi-gloss finish or a gloss
finish assuming that I am using clear-gloss wipe-on-poly?

Sorry for that many questions. But I have never heard about this way
of applying wipe-on-poly, and this way seems to be very promising.

Thanks in advance for any further info about this way of applying
wipe-on-poly.

Jay Chan

Someone update this, I wanna know how it worked out!
Take some pictures too!

In article . com, wrote:
I would like to know a good way to apply the last coat of poly on a
dining table top.

I am almost done with re-finishing the dining table top. I have
painted many coats of poly, and sanded it many times. Now, the table
top is very smooth. After I have applied a coat of poly with a natural
bristle brush or a foam brush, I find that the surface in general is
very smooth -- but there are too many little bubbles. Using a rag is
better; but I still get enough bubbles that I want something better.
Spraying poly from a spray can is good; but the surface feels very
grainy, not glossy smooth at all.

What should I do?

Thin the poly and let it stand for a while before applying (time
for the bubbles to rise). I've had good success with the Wooster
foam brushes.

After a day or three, you can rub out the inevitable minor
imperfections with some combination of:

* 0000 steel wool
* Wet sanding. Maybe 600 grit all the way to 1500-2000
* Pummice stone and then rotten stone
* Automotive rubbing compound and then automotive polishing compound

I like the effect that I get with 0000 steel wool which is quick
and easy. That should be totally smooth but not very shiny. If you
want a high gloss you'll have to try some of the other options.

In any event, I think you'll get to desired state of perfection
by rubbing, and rubbing... The degree of glossiness will be
determined by what material(s) you choose to use for that rubbing.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Malcolm Hoar" wrote in message
...


Thin the poly and let it stand for a while before applying (time
for the bubbles to rise). I've had good success with the Wooster
foam brushes.


Dito that. The Wooster foam brushes are remarkable good for this.

Malcolm Hoar wrote:
In article . com, wrote:
I would like to know a good way to apply the last coat of poly on a
dining table top.

I am almost done with re-finishing the dining table top. I have
painted many coats of poly, and sanded it many times. Now, the table
top is very smooth. After I have applied a coat of poly with a natural
bristle brush or a foam brush, I find that the surface in general is
very smooth -- but there are too many little bubbles. Using a rag is
better; but I still get enough bubbles that I want something better.
Spraying poly from a spray can is good; but the surface feels very
grainy, not glossy smooth at all.

What should I do?

Thin the poly and let it stand for a while before applying (time
for the bubbles to rise). I've had good success with the Wooster
foam brushes.

After a day or three, you can rub out the inevitable minor
imperfections with some combination of:

* 0000 steel wool
* Wet sanding. Maybe 600 grit all the way to 1500-2000
* Pummice stone and then rotten stone
* Automotive rubbing compound and then automotive polishing compound

I like the effect that I get with 0000 steel wool which is quick
and easy. That should be totally smooth but not very shiny. If you
want a high gloss you'll have to try some of the other options.

In any event, I think you'll get to desired state of perfection
by rubbing, and rubbing... The degree of glossiness will be
determined by what material(s) you choose to use for that rubbing.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for the suggestion of thinning the poly first. I tried that
once. But I didn't wait for the bubbles to go away before using the
mixture. I should have waited long enough for the bubbles to rise.
Next time, I will wait (may be half a day).

Also thanks for the tips of the way to remove the last bits of
imprefection. I will use various fine grit sandpaper to sand the
surface down, and rub the surface with automotive rubbing compound and
then automotive polishing compound. I didn't know that I could use
automotive stuffs on kitchen table. Thanks.

Which grid of sandpaper do you recommend? I already have 400 grit and
600 grit sandpaper. Would you recommend me to sand in this sequence:
400-grit, 600-grit, 1000-grit, 1500-grit

Jay Chan

In article . com, wrote:

Which grid of sandpaper do you recommend? I already have 400 grit and
600 grit sandpaper. Would you recommend me to sand in this sequence:
400-grit, 600-grit, 1000-grit, 1500-grit

I'd start with 600 grit. However, I think you'll need wet and
dry paper (if you don't already have it). You will need to
use it wet too. I'd probably try mineral spirits rather than
water. Obviously, you'll want to allow a few days for the
poly to cure fully (esp. during this colder time of year).

Whatever abrasive you use, go very, very gently. You're not
trying to remove a whole bunch of material here -- just
smooth and polish the topmost surface.

With a little common sense and a lot of care, you should
be able to achieve a really beautiful finish.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Malcolm Hoar" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
wrote:

Which grid of sandpaper do you recommend? I already have 400 grit and
600 grit sandpaper. Would you recommend me to sand in this sequence:
400-grit, 600-grit, 1000-grit, 1500-grit

I'd start with 600 grit. However, I think you'll need wet and
dry paper (if you don't already have it). You will need to
use it wet too. I'd probably try mineral spirits rather than
water. Obviously, you'll want to allow a few days for the
poly to cure fully (esp. during this colder time of year).

I would not use 600 grit at the point - it's too coarse for the work at hand
and will leave scratches too deep. At this point 1200 should be all that is
necessary. 600 is a tooth providing grit and should not be used in the
process of bringing up finishes.


--

-Mike-

wrote in message
ups.com...
I would like to know a good way to apply the last coat of poly on a
dining table top.

I am almost done with re-finishing the dining table top. I have
painted many coats of poly, and sanded it many times. Now, the table
top is very smooth. After I have applied a coat of poly with a natural
bristle brush or a foam brush, I find that the surface in general is
very smooth -- but there are too many little bubbles. Using a rag is
better; but I still get enough bubbles that I want something better.
Spraying poly from a spray can is good; but the surface feels very
grainy, not glossy smooth at all.

What should I do?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Jay Chan


I was in Paxton Lumber yesterday (local hardwood dealer) and I overheard the
sales rep on the phone talking to a noob. He told him that poly should never
be used on furniture, only on floors...

I thought that was a strange thing to tell a customer...

"Locutus" writes:
I was in Paxton Lumber yesterday (local hardwood dealer) and I
overheard the sales rep on the phone talking to a noob. He told him
that poly should never be used on furniture, only on floors...

Hmmm... I prefer floor-grade poly on my furniture, too. I figure,
anything designed to be walked on can stand some abuse.

DJ Delorie wrote:

Hmmm... I prefer floor-grade poly on my furniture, too. I figure,
anything designed to be walked on can stand some abuse.

Try Gymseal once, and you'll ditch poly forever.

"Locutus" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
I would like to know a good way to apply the last coat of poly on a
dining table top.

I am almost done with re-finishing the dining table top. I have
painted many coats of poly, and sanded it many times. Now, the table
top is very smooth. After I have applied a coat of poly with a natural
bristle brush or a foam brush, I find that the surface in general is
very smooth -- but there are too many little bubbles. Using a rag is
better; but I still get enough bubbles that I want something better.
Spraying poly from a spray can is good; but the surface feels very
grainy, not glossy smooth at all.

What should I do?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Jay Chan


I was in Paxton Lumber yesterday (local hardwood dealer) and I overheard
the sales rep on the phone talking to a noob. He told him that poly should
never be used on furniture, only on floors...

I thought that was a strange thing to tell a customer...
Was that the Paxton near Denver, CO? They really have a huge supply of
exotic woods. W W

"Warren Weber" wrote in message
. ..

"Locutus" wrote in message

I was in Paxton Lumber yesterday (local hardwood dealer) and I overheard
the sales rep on the phone talking to a noob. He told him that poly
should never be used on furniture, only on floors...

I thought that was a strange thing to tell a customer...
Was that the Paxton near Denver, CO? They really have a huge supply of
exotic woods. W W

No, the one in Cincinnati Ohio. Great place for good wood.

I had tiny bubbles in my dried poly. I looked through a jewelers magnifying
loupe. Yup, bubbles. Thought it might be sand or dirt, or dust. They were
half in and half out, but I could neither brush them out or sand them out.
I am sure that there are scientific words, and a possible explanation and
solution. I don't have them. I could not block sand the bubble in half,
without destroying the surrounding area. And subsequent coats would have
same anyways. It would have left concave half pitts if sanding was
possible. so there they are. Too deep to ignore, and not raised enough to
even half fix!! Don't know what I did wrong or not right. it was inside of
drawers, and the right finish, so what are you gonna do.

I personally think the only solution is not to get them in the first place.
I used a new purdy brush, probably coated the brush with solvent and ficked
off. May have forgot, not sure. Don't think I thinned first or any coat
(3) because the can does not mention it. It was spar, not hard type cause I
had it already.

I can only guess that a little thinner may have been the solution. And
maybe not in the order of 10% which may be too much. Could be as low as 1%.
I think experimentation is in order. I think this applies to all coats, and
don't know if more thinner on the first coat as primer is needed, whether or
not the can says so. NB i did poly outdoors once in high temp and very high
humidity, and the water got right into the finish and it went white, like
milk paint. Next tiem, snaded down, not to wood, and it was gone, gone. I
think you could tell you had sanded it all out. Yes it was that dramatic.

For arguments sake, has anybody done a descent job of poly with w/ a brush,
or foam without bubbles. Simple ya, na is sufficient. If speciically so,
was it thinner, and how much?



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In article , "bent" wrote:

For arguments sake, has anybody done a descent job of poly with w/ a brush,
or foam without bubbles. Simple ya, na is sufficient. If speciically so,
was it thinner, and how much?

Yes, oil based poly, thinned quite a bit (maybe 20%) and a
foam brush. Finished with 0000 steel wool and a little wax.
Actually, it was Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane.

No bubble problems visible to the naked eye.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"bent" wrote in message
...


For arguments sake, has anybody done a descent job of poly with w/ a
brush,
or foam without bubbles. Simple ya, na is sufficient. If speciically so,
was it thinner, and how much?


I spread poly straight up with foam pads. The thing with poly is to spread
it, not paint it. Work poly at all and you introduce air bubbles. I pull
it as evenly as I possibly can across the piece and then I flatten it with
1200 or so and buff back to the shine I want.

--

-Mike-

wrote in message
ups.com...
I would like to know a good way to apply the last coat of poly on a
dining table top.

I am almost done with re-finishing the dining table top. I have
painted many coats of poly, and sanded it many times. Now, the table
top is very smooth. After I have applied a coat of poly with a natural
bristle brush or a foam brush, I find that the surface in general is
very smooth -- but there are too many little bubbles. Using a rag is
better; but I still get enough bubbles that I want something better.
Spraying poly from a spray can is good; but the surface feels very
grainy, not glossy smooth at all.

What should I do?


Knock the last coat down with 1000 or 1200 grit paper. Don't be afraid to
wet sand. Use a sanding block and take it down until you have an evenly
scuffed surface - no shiny spots. The shiny spots will be low points. Once
you have the surface flat (in both senses of the word), use automotive
rubbing compound and buff it back up to the desired level of shine. If you
use a medium cut compound you should bring the 1200 grit scratches up with
little effort. For a deep, clear, bright shine follow this up with a fine
cut buffing compound.

You can get these rubbing/buffing compounds at any automotive paint supplier
or at many automotive parts stores.

--

-Mike-