So, I'm out here sanding this Pinewood Derby Garage project, by hand,
because it's a nice quiet Sunday and I don't feel like listening to a
sander and don't want dust flying all around me and the shop.

Next, I'm going to prime the sticks and then later on knock the fuzz
off.

Tomorrow night at the pack meeting there will be a dozen nine and ten
year olds with brushes, slopping on some blue and gold paint.

Here's the deal; I already figured on taking the result of the cubbies
efforts and treating their color coat as a build coat. That means
that I'll be sanding their coat down smooth and shooting a couple of
color coats in the booth, followed by a few clear coats, so that there
is something to resist the graphite lube that gets all over everything
having to do with Pineywood Derby stuff, as well as just making it
look spanky.

They'll be doing this painting in the lunch room of the grade school,
and the maintenance guy will be watching us like a hawk. Also, I'll
need to be able to pack up the freshly painted sticks and bring them
back to my shop without them getting all stuck together.

What I need to know is: is there some kind of super fast drying
paint, maybe to be had from a craft store, that will be easy to wipe
up when it spills and be easy to sand when it's dry.

The meeting lasts for an hour and I figure the painting will take
forty five minutes. It would be lovely if the paint would dry enough
to pack during the remaining fifteen minutes because watching paint
dry is a little to much Zen for a Monday night.


Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Tom Watson wrote in
:

*snip*

What I need to know is: is there some kind of super fast drying
paint, maybe to be had from a craft store, that will be easy to wipe
up when it spills and be easy to sand when it's dry.

The meeting lasts for an hour and I figure the painting will take
forty five minutes. It would be lovely if the paint would dry enough
to pack during the remaining fifteen minutes because watching paint
dry is a little to much Zen for a Monday night.


Regards,

Tom Watson

The Apple Barrel Colors available in the crafts section of Walmart and
other such stores would probably work for you. They're cheap, and will
probably be mostly dry in the allotted 15 minutes. (It depends on how
thick a layer the scouts put on.)

This is based on both my medium (plastic) and casual observations, not
hard data. So, YMMV.

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Why don't you just cut the kids out entirely? Since you are going to redo
everything they do, why let them do it in the first place? It would save you
a lot of work. Better yet, why don't you and the rest of the parents just
build, paint and race the cars yourselves? Don't bother getting the kids
involved, they can't do it right anyway.

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
So, I'm out here sanding this Pinewood Derby Garage project, by hand,
because it's a nice quiet Sunday and I don't feel like listening to a
sander and don't want dust flying all around me and the shop.

Next, I'm going to prime the sticks and then later on knock the fuzz
off.

Tomorrow night at the pack meeting there will be a dozen nine and ten
year olds with brushes, slopping on some blue and gold paint.

Here's the deal; I already figured on taking the result of the cubbies
efforts and treating their color coat as a build coat. That means
that I'll be sanding their coat down smooth and shooting a couple of
color coats in the booth, followed by a few clear coats, so that there
is something to resist the graphite lube that gets all over everything
having to do with Pineywood Derby stuff, as well as just making it
look spanky.

They'll be doing this painting in the lunch room of the grade school,
and the maintenance guy will be watching us like a hawk. Also, I'll
need to be able to pack up the freshly painted sticks and bring them
back to my shop without them getting all stuck together.

What I need to know is: is there some kind of super fast drying
paint, maybe to be had from a craft store, that will be easy to wipe
up when it spills and be easy to sand when it's dry.

The meeting lasts for an hour and I figure the painting will take
forty five minutes. It would be lovely if the paint would dry enough
to pack during the remaining fifteen minutes because watching paint
dry is a little to much Zen for a Monday night.


Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
..

What I need to know is: is there some kind of super fast drying
paint, maybe to be had from a craft store, that will be easy to wipe
up when it spills and be easy to sand when it's dry.


Water paint.

"Tom Watson" wrote

....


They'll be doing this painting in the lunch room of the grade school,
and the maintenance guy will be watching us like a hawk. Also, I'll
need to be able to pack up the freshly painted sticks and bring them
back to my shop without them getting all stuck together.

What I need to know is: is there some kind of super fast drying
paint, maybe to be had from a craft store, that will be easy to wipe
up when it spills and be easy to sand when it's dry.

The meeting lasts for an hour and I figure the painting will take
forty five minutes. It would be lovely if the paint would dry enough
to pack during the remaining fifteen minutes because watching paint
dry is a little to much Zen for a Monday night.


Tom, I'm thinking Tempora paint ... my wife says it's quick drying, and
water-based so it's an easy cleanup. It won't stain clothing unless you let
it dry (and I found a hint that says to put a few drops of dishwashing soap
in the paint to make the clothing cleanup much easier).

I can't find much right now on tempora (tempura), but I believe it's
egg-based (egg protein as the binding agent). You can get this paint at most
craft stores, school supply stores, etc ... or on-line. Some of our local
school supply stores have this in gallon containers (I hate to think of a
gallon of paint, little kids, and one adult holding them in check).

You'll be dealing with primary colors ... bright ones at that ... but we've
found that a bit of white will tone down the color quickly ... be gentle
when modifying colors.

Hope this helps.


Rick

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 20:03:47 GMT, "CW" (Curmudgeonly WoodDorker)
wrote:

Why don't you just cut the kids out entirely? Since you are going to redo
everything they do, why let them do it in the first place? It would save you
a lot of work. Better yet, why don't you and the rest of the parents just
build, paint and race the cars yourselves? Don't bother getting the kids
involved, they can't do it right anyway.


When I was a pup of about the age that these scouts are, my Dad was
into whittling. He'd mostly do cowboys and horses and such. Some of
the work was very, very good.

He'd let me help out a little bit, with him guiding my hand.

I'd over cut here and there but he told me not to mind that.

When he was done finishing it off, we'd take it into the house to show
my Mom what WE did.

I still have some of those pieces. I'm still proud of them, even
though I know that my Dad did a good bit of tuning up to cover my
mistakes.


Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Dorkers would love this project.

I used a sheet of 3/4 AA Cherry ply, a sheet of 1/2 A1 Cherry ply and
a sheet of 1/2 pre finished maple ply - and it all got painted!

(To be fair, the cherry was water spotted and couldn't be used for
clear finishing. The maple had cross grained digs in it that were
never going to be right again.)

Tip - SW Pro Bond Block Primer sucks down nice and smooth on a piece
of AA Cherry.




Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:00:56 -0500, Tom Watson
wrote:

Dorkers would love this project.

I used a sheet of 3/4 AA Cherry ply, a sheet of 1/2 A1 Cherry ply and
a sheet of 1/2 pre finished maple ply - and it all got painted!

(To be fair, the cherry was water spotted and couldn't be used for
clear finishing. The maple had cross grained digs in it that were
never going to be right again.)

Tip - SW Pro Bond Block Primer sucks down nice and smooth on a piece
of AA Cherry.




Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/


HA!...sounds great! Have fun.
Let us know how things turn out

J

Rick M wrote:
. Some of our local
school supply stores have this in gallon containers (I hate to think of a
gallon of paint, little kids, and one adult holding them in check).

Sweet memories.... 12 kids, 12 slabs of clay, donated by one of the
parents who worked at a roofing tile factory. Real clay. After
"sculpting" some water would really help smooth out the clay....
imagine the rest.

"CW" wrote in message
news
Why don't you just cut the kids out entirely? Since you are going to redo
everything they do, why let them do it in the first place? It would save
you
a lot of work. Better yet, why don't you and the rest of the parents just
build, paint and race the cars yourselves? Don't bother getting the kids
involved, they can't do it right anyway.

Unfortunately the kids that actually do the work them selves get beat out by
a parent that did the work. I remember when my son was in Scouts doing the
same thing WE did the work on the car. I would help set up the cuts and
make a test cut on a scrap and he would do the actual cut on his car. I
burnished "a" wheel and axel with graphite and a nail in the drill, he
finished it and the other 3 after watching me do it. He totally painted it
and added the weights. He built the car.

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
Dorkers would love this project.

I used a sheet of 3/4 AA Cherry ply, a sheet of 1/2 A1 Cherry ply and
a sheet of 1/2 pre finished maple ply - and it all got painted!


You can use plywood and or a wood other than pine? We got checked on that.
We had to use the wood that came in the kit.

In article . net,
CW wrote:
Why don't you just cut the kids out entirely? Since you are going to redo
everything they do, why let them do it in the first place? It would save you
a lot of work. Better yet, why don't you and the rest of the parents just
build, paint and race the cars yourselves? Don't bother getting the kids
involved, they can't do it right anyway.


I had similar thoughts but managed to restrain myself from expressing
them. Now that you have opened the gate, so to speak, let me be the
first to add, ME TOO!





--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 23:22:29 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"Tom Watson" wrote in message
.. .
Dorkers would love this project.

I used a sheet of 3/4 AA Cherry ply, a sheet of 1/2 A1 Cherry ply and
a sheet of 1/2 pre finished maple ply - and it all got painted!


You can use plywood and or a wood other than pine? We got checked on that.
We had to use the wood that came in the kit.


Dear Leon: (CheckYaSelfBefoYaWreckYaself) this is a discusion about
building a Pinewood Derby Garage - not a Pinewood Derby Racer.

This thing is what the cars sit on between races and is essentially a
display case.

Your point about the Dads doing too much on the racers is taken,
though.

The thing is, most of the Dads in our Pack are Finance People and
Electrical Engineers, so they can't do much to accelerate their kid's
project.

Got one Plumber and one Electrician. I don't worry much about them.

We got a couple of carpenters, though. They're the ones that I keep
an eye on. :-)...





Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:32:53 -0600, ()
wrote:

In article . net,
CW wrote:
Why don't you just cut the kids out entirely? Since you are going to redo
everything they do, why let them do it in the first place? It would save you
a lot of work. Better yet, why don't you and the rest of the parents just
build, paint and race the cars yourselves? Don't bother getting the kids
involved, they can't do it right anyway.


I had similar thoughts but managed to restrain myself from expressing
them. Now that you have opened the gate, so to speak, let me be the
first to add, ME TOO!





This project was initially intended to be thus:

Mr. Watson will design and build a Pinewood Derby Garage, using time
and materials donated by Mr. Watson, so that the Pack would not have
to get into their pockets to buy a retail version of same.

It was then modified to include input and participation by the Cubbies
in the Webelo I Den that Mr. Watson's son is in.

It was then decided that there would be three meetings devoted to the
Cubbies interaction in the process.

Design Phase:

Mr. Watson does a few sketches in a CAD program and runs a
meeting on design considerations for the project. Cubbies express
their opinions and Mr. Watson redraws based on their input.

Trial Assembly Phase:

Mr. Watson goes into the shop and cuts up the parts needed to make the
agreed upon design. Mr. Watson pre-assembles the parts, then
dissasembles them, so that the Cubbies can re-assemble them during
meeting #2.

Pre-Finishing Phase:

Mr. Watson takes apart the assembly done during the previous meeting
and sands everything with 80 and 120, then applies primer. Then Mr.
Watson takes the pre-primed pieces to the final meeting, for color
coating.

Post Cubbie Meeting Phase:

Mr. Watson will sand the color coat, shoot a barrier coat of shellac,
shoot a couple of color coats of lacquer to even up the color, shoot
three clear coats of water based poly.

Caveats:

We meet in the lunch room of the local grade school. There can be no
cutting. There can be no sanding. Painting may be done but with such
materials as will clean up without leaving any mark on the school
property.

Benefits:

The Cubbies already have a sense of ownership of the project, even
though they may not participate in every step. The end result will be
something that they have contributed to in a major way.

KMHIA.





Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...

Dear Leon: (CheckYaSelfBefoYaWreckYaself) this is a discusion about
building a Pinewood Derby Garage - not a Pinewood Derby Racer.

Damn Tom, I had to reread PineWood Derby Garage Project 2 more times before
I realised you were "NOT" meaning/saying PineWood Derby Project to be done
in the Garage. You can lead some people to water.... Please accept my
appoligies.


This thing is what the cars sit on between races and is essentially a
display case.

I am with you now. I never saw any of those way back when. Post poictures
of the finished project.



Your point about the Dads doing too much on the racers is taken,
though.

The thing is, most of the Dads in our Pack are Finance People and
Electrical Engineers, so they can't do much to accelerate their kid's
project.

I hear you. Our group were more Blue Collar, with rough hands.


Got one Plumber and one Electrician. I don't worry much about them.

We got a couple of carpenters, though. They're the ones that I keep
an eye on. :-)...


LOL.. I bet.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 00:01:32 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:



Damn Tom, I had to reread PineWood Derby Garage Project 2 more times before
I realised you were "NOT" meaning/saying PineWood Derby Project to be done
in the Garage. You can lead some people to water.... Please accept my
appoligies.

No apogees needed, Leon. I should have used some other terminology,
to keep it clear.


This thing is what the cars sit on between races and is essentially a
display case.

I am with you now. I never saw any of those way back when. Post poictures
of the finished project.

Will do.



Your point about the Dads doing too much on the racers is taken,
though.

The thing is, most of the Dads in our Pack are Finance People and
Electrical Engineers, so they can't do much to accelerate their kid's
project.

I hear you. Our group were more Blue Collar, with rough hands.

I sorta wish that we did, because these finance people ain't worth
much on a camping trip and the EE's need a full set of drawings to
find the slit trench. ;-)



Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 00:01:32 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

I sorta wish that we did, because these finance people ain't worth
much on a camping trip and the EE's need a full set of drawings to
find the slit trench. ;-)


Camping... ;~)
I do recall one father and son that my son went to school with. Ok, my son
did not go to school with his father but you know where I am going. ;~)
The father was the president/key grip of one of the local Bank of America
branches. The coons got into one of the trash cans one night and there
were screams coming from their tent during the ruckus.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 00:40:34 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"Tom Watson" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 00:01:32 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

I sorta wish that we did, because these finance people ain't worth
much on a camping trip and the EE's need a full set of drawings to
find the slit trench. ;-)


Camping... ;~)
I do recall one father and son that my son went to school with. Ok, my son
did not go to school with his father but you know where I am going. ;~)
The father was the president/key grip of one of the local Bank of America
branches. The coons got into one of the trash cans one night and there
were screams coming from their tent during the ruckus.





Aw Hell, that's just one varmint going off when another one tries to
get to the goodies before them.


Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

This string of comments reminds me of the Cub days with our son (now 28).
One year one of the dad's was an aeronautical engineer at one of the local
aircraft plants. As his son looked on, he opened up a box and produced a
nicely crafted, shaped and polished car; and mentioned that it had tested in
the Wichita State University wind tunnel. Needless to say a lot of father's
and son's jaws dropped.

That year the event was won by a young fellow who built his rather basic car
with the help of his single-parent mom. The test car was eliminated early.

RonB

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:32:53 -0600, ()
wrote:

In article . net,
CW wrote:
Why don't you just cut the kids out entirely? Since you are going to redo
everything they do, why let them do it in the first place? It would save
you
a lot of work. Better yet, why don't you and the rest of the parents just
build, paint and race the cars yourselves? Don't bother getting the kids
involved, they can't do it right anyway.


I had similar thoughts but managed to restrain myself from expressing
them. Now that you have opened the gate, so to speak, let me be the
first to add, ME TOO!





This project was initially intended to be thus:

Mr. Watson will design and build a Pinewood Derby Garage, using time
and materials donated by Mr. Watson, so that the Pack would not have
to get into their pockets to buy a retail version of same.

It was then modified to include input and participation by the Cubbies
in the Webelo I Den that Mr. Watson's son is in.

It was then decided that there would be three meetings devoted to the
Cubbies interaction in the process.

Design Phase:

Mr. Watson does a few sketches in a CAD program and runs a
meeting on design considerations for the project. Cubbies express
their opinions and Mr. Watson redraws based on their input.

Trial Assembly Phase:

Mr. Watson goes into the shop and cuts up the parts needed to make the
agreed upon design. Mr. Watson pre-assembles the parts, then
dissasembles them, so that the Cubbies can re-assemble them during
meeting #2.

Pre-Finishing Phase:

Mr. Watson takes apart the assembly done during the previous meeting
and sands everything with 80 and 120, then applies primer. Then Mr.
Watson takes the pre-primed pieces to the final meeting, for color
coating.

Post Cubbie Meeting Phase:

Mr. Watson will sand the color coat, shoot a barrier coat of shellac,
shoot a couple of color coats of lacquer to even up the color, shoot
three clear coats of water based poly.

Caveats:

We meet in the lunch room of the local grade school. There can be no
cutting. There can be no sanding. Painting may be done but with such
materials as will clean up without leaving any mark on the school
property.

Benefits:

The Cubbies already have a sense of ownership of the project, even
though they may not participate in every step. The end result will be
something that they have contributed to in a major way.

KMHIA.





Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:32:53 -0600, ()
wrote:
The Cubbies already have a sense of ownership of the project, even
though they may not participate in every step. The end result will be
something that they have contributed to in a major way.

KMHIA.
Regards,

Tom Watson

It is a nice project and really great the way your going to a lot of trouble
to involve the group (kids and parents)....the naysayers here I think (and
hope) simply didn't understand what the project actually was....a casual or
non attentive first read lost the garage or display aspect...... Rod

In article ,
Tom Watson wrote:


This project was initially intended to be thus:

...snipped...
It was then modified to include input and participation by the Cubbies
in the Webelo I Den that Mr. Watson's son is in.

It was then decided that there would be three meetings devoted to the
Cubbies interaction in the process.
... more snipped...


You don't call them "Cubbies" to their face, do you?




--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

In article ,
Leon wrote:

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
.. .

Dear Leon: (CheckYaSelfBefoYaWreckYaself) this is a discusion about
building a Pinewood Derby Garage - not a Pinewood Derby Racer.

Damn Tom, I had to reread PineWood Derby Garage Project 2 more times before
I realised you were "NOT" meaning/saying PineWood Derby Project to be done
in the Garage. You can lead some people to water.... Please accept my
apology
...snipped...

Geez, never thougt I would use the phrase twice twice in the same
thread, but here I go... ME TOO!


--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

The Zinsser Bulls-Eye is a water based product and will
dry faster than you can get it on. It also sands pretty
well.

http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=15

Tom Watson wrote:

So, I'm out here sanding this Pinewood Derby Garage project, by hand,
because it's a nice quiet Sunday and I don't feel like listening to a
sander and don't want dust flying all around me and the shop.

What I need to know is: is there some kind of super fast drying
paint, maybe to be had from a craft store, that will be easy to wipe
up when it spills and be easy to sand when it's dry.

The meeting lasts for an hour and I figure the painting will take
forty five minutes. It would be lovely if the paint would dry enough
to pack during the remaining fifteen minutes because watching paint
dry is a little to much Zen for a Monday night.

I also meant to mention Zinsser "BIN" which is
pigmented shellac. It will dry extremely quick.

Pat Barber wrote:


Tom Watson wrote:

So, I'm out here sanding this Pinewood Derby Garage project, by hand,
because it's a nice quiet Sunday and I don't feel like listening to a
sander and don't want dust flying all around me and the shop.


What I need to know is: is there some kind of super fast drying
paint, maybe to be had from a craft store, that will be easy to wipe
up when it spills and be easy to sand when it's dry.

The meeting lasts for an hour and I figure the painting will take
forty five minutes. It would be lovely if the paint would dry enough
to pack during the remaining fifteen minutes because watching paint
dry is a little to much Zen for a Monday night.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I bought Washable Tempera Paint, which wiped up easily and comes out
of clothes easily. Good thing. too, cause the Cubbies was a sloppy
lot this evening.

That stuff doesn't cover too well but that's not a drawback in this
case. It dried fast and will prolly sand out fine.

I didn't go with the Zinnser because I was afraid that the drops would
set up too quickly and be difficult to wipe up - also, I wasn't sure
how easily it would come out of clothing and I didn't want a bunch of
irate Cubbie Moms calling me at all hours to complain.


Thanks again.


Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:47:46 -0600, ()
wrote:


You don't call them "Cubbies" to their face, do you?


Hell, I'd rather be called a Cubbie than a Webelo.


Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

In article ,
Tom Watson wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:47:46 -0600, ()
wrote:


You don't call them "Cubbies" to their face, do you?


Hell, I'd rather be called a Cubbie than a Webelo.


Hmmm, you've sure got a good point there!


--

SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org