Someone posted a few days ago the deal on clamps from Woodcraft. I
ordered them and the FedEx guy pulled up just as I was starting a glue
up (he must have known).

For $20, no shipping, these are a good deal. They're not Jorgensons
but worth the money and the spring clamps are also sturdy.

http://www.woodcraft.com//family.asp...ePageDeal=True

In article . com, "RayV" wrote:
Someone posted a few days ago the deal on clamps from Woodcraft. I
ordered them and the FedEx guy pulled up just as I was starting a glue
up (he must have known).

For $20, no shipping, these are a good deal. They're not Jorgensons
but worth the money and the spring clamps are also sturdy.

http://www.woodcraft.com//family.asp...ePageDeal=True

Looks almost too good to be true -- what's the country of origin?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I think you can comparable clamps at your local Harbor Freight store
cheaper.


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
t...
In article . com, "RayV"
wrote:
Someone posted a few days ago the deal on clamps from Woodcraft. I
ordered them and the FedEx guy pulled up just as I was starting a glue
up (he must have known).

For $20, no shipping, these are a good deal. They're not Jorgensons
but worth the money and the spring clamps are also sturdy.

http://www.woodcraft.com//family.asp...ePageDeal=True

Looks almost too good to be true -- what's the country of origin?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"RayV" wrote in message
ups.com...
Someone posted a few days ago the deal on clamps from Woodcraft. I
ordered them and the FedEx guy pulled up just as I was starting a glue
up (he must have known).

For $20, no shipping, these are a good deal. They're not Jorgensons
but worth the money and the spring clamps are also sturdy.

http://www.woodcraft.com//family.asp...ePageDeal=True


Thanks for the info, but I already have too many clamps. ;}

In article , "Tom" wrote:
I think you can comparable clamps at your local Harbor Freight store
cheaper.

"Cheaper", no doubt -- and I *know* where *those* came from -- it's the
"comparable" part that I'm wondering about.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
et...
In article . com, "RayV"
wrote:
Someone posted a few days ago the deal on clamps from Woodcraft. I
ordered them and the FedEx guy pulled up just as I was starting a glue
up (he must have known).

For $20, no shipping, these are a good deal. They're not Jorgensons
but worth the money and the spring clamps are also sturdy.

http://www.woodcraft.com//family.asp...ePageDeal=True

Looks almost too good to be true -- what's the country of origin?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On 26 Nov 2006 05:49:38 -0800, "RayV" wrote:

Someone posted a few days ago the deal on clamps from Woodcraft. I
ordered them and the FedEx guy pulled up just as I was starting a glue
up (he must have known).

For $20, no shipping, these are a good deal. They're not Jorgensons
but worth the money and the spring clamps are also sturdy.

http://www.woodcraft.com//family.asp...ePageDeal=True

You get FedEx on Sundays? Good deal!

"tommyboy" wrote in message
...
On 26 Nov 2006 05:49:38 -0800, "RayV" wrote:

Someone posted a few days ago the deal on clamps from Woodcraft. I
ordered them and the FedEx guy pulled up just as I was starting a glue
up (he must have known).

For $20, no shipping, these are a good deal. They're not Jorgensons
but worth the money and the spring clamps are also sturdy.

http://www.woodcraft.com//family.asp...ePageDeal=True

You get FedEx on Sundays? Good deal!

Both clamps at Harbor Freight and Woodcraft are not made in the US so if one
is going to buy those types of clamps go for equal but cheaper price.

"Tom" wrote in message
m...

Both clamps at Harbor Freight and Woodcraft are not made in the US so if
one
is going to buy those types of clamps go for equal but cheaper price.

There's the US and then there's the rest of the world, right?

CW wrote:

"Tom" wrote in message
m...

Both clamps at Harbor Freight and Woodcraft are not made in the US so if
one
is going to buy those types of clamps go for equal but cheaper price.

There's the US and then there's the rest of the world, right?

No, there is where you live and then there's the rest of the world.
Whenever possible / economical you should try to support the "where you
live" stuff first.

Pete C.

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 20:02:47 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Whenever possible / economical you should try to support the "where you
live" stuff first.

You should support quality above all else, economy second and
nationalism dead last. If "where you live" makes the best stuff at
the best prices, then by all means buy it. If they make crap at
outrageous prices, buying it only encourages them to continue.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article . com, "RayV" wrote:
Someone posted a few days ago the deal on clamps from Woodcraft. I
ordered them and the FedEx guy pulled up just as I was starting a glue
up (he must have known).

For $20, no shipping, these are a good deal. They're not Jorgensons
but worth the money and the spring clamps are also sturdy.

http://www.woodcraft.com//family.asp...ePageDeal=True

Looks almost too good to be true -- what's the country of origin?


Box reads, "Made in China to Columbian specifications".

Brian Henderson wrote:
You should support quality above all else, economy second and
nationalism dead last. If "where you live" makes the best stuff at
the best prices, then by all means buy it. If they make crap at
outrageous prices, buying it only encourages them to continue.

But what about the environment? Cargo ships burn a lot of fossil fuels.

tommyboy wrote:
On 26 Nov 2006 05:49:38 -0800, "RayV" wrote:

Someone posted a few days ago the deal on clamps from Woodcraft. I
ordered them and the FedEx guy pulled up just as I was starting a glue
up (he must have known).

For $20, no shipping, these are a good deal. They're not Jorgensons
but worth the money and the spring clamps are also sturdy.

http://www.woodcraft.com//family.asp...ePageDeal=True

You get FedEx on Sundays? Good deal!

No, they came on Saturday. I didn't post until Sunday morning. Even
so, I was surprised to get a saturday delivery especially since I
didn't pay shipping.

On 27 Nov 2006 05:28:03 -0800, "RayV" wrote:


tommyboy wrote:
On 26 Nov 2006 05:49:38 -0800, "RayV" wrote:

Someone posted a few days ago the deal on clamps from Woodcraft. I
ordered them and the FedEx guy pulled up just as I was starting a glue
up (he must have known).

For $20, no shipping, these are a good deal. They're not Jorgensons
but worth the money and the spring clamps are also sturdy.

http://www.woodcraft.com//family.asp...ePageDeal=True

You get FedEx on Sundays? Good deal!

No, they came on Saturday. I didn't post until Sunday morning. Even
so, I was surprised to get a saturday delivery especially since I
didn't pay shipping.

I believe FedEx now does home deliveries on Saturdays at no extra
cost.

RayV wrote:

Brian Henderson wrote:
You should support quality above all else, economy second and
nationalism dead last. If "where you live" makes the best stuff at
the best prices, then by all means buy it. If they make crap at
outrageous prices, buying it only encourages them to continue.

But what about the environment? Cargo ships burn a lot of fossil fuels.

They do, however given the phenomenal amount of cargo they move I expect
their actual efficiency is quite high especially given the fact that
they don't have to stop at traffic lights and similar fuel guzzling
delays. Once they leave port it's pretty much an efficient non stop
cruise at optimum speed the whole way.

Pete C.

tommyboy wrote:

On 27 Nov 2006 05:28:03 -0800, "RayV" wrote:


tommyboy wrote:
On 26 Nov 2006 05:49:38 -0800, "RayV" wrote:

Someone posted a few days ago the deal on clamps from Woodcraft. I
ordered them and the FedEx guy pulled up just as I was starting a glue
up (he must have known).

For $20, no shipping, these are a good deal. They're not Jorgensons
but worth the money and the spring clamps are also sturdy.

http://www.woodcraft.com//family.asp...ePageDeal=True

You get FedEx on Sundays? Good deal!

No, they came on Saturday. I didn't post until Sunday morning. Even
so, I was surprised to get a saturday delivery especially since I
didn't pay shipping.

I believe FedEx now does home deliveries on Saturdays at no extra
cost.

That's nice since UPS seems to have determined that a 7 day transit time
is "on schedule" for a 3 day service package.

Never again, UPS is now on my permanent black list and any company that
refuses to use an alternate shipper will not get my business either.

Pete C.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 05:17:16 -0800, RayV wrote:

Brian Henderson wrote:
You should support quality above all else, economy second and
nationalism dead last. If "where you live" makes the best stuff at
the best prices, then by all means buy it. If they make crap at
outrageous prices, buying it only encourages them to continue.

But what about the environment? Cargo ships burn a lot of fossil fuels.

A lot less than trucks or trains to move the same tonnage.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:
On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 05:17:16 -0800, RayV wrote:

Brian Henderson wrote:
You should support quality above all else, economy second and
nationalism dead last. If "where you live" makes the best stuff at
the best prices, then by all means buy it. If they make crap at
outrageous prices, buying it only encourages them to continue.

But what about the environment? Cargo ships burn a lot of fossil fuels.

A lot less than trucks or trains to move the same tonnage.


So if I follow the logic less fuel is burned and less pollution is
produced:
making a product in Asia
driving it to the dock
driving a cargo ship to CA or NJ
Driving it to my house

Than:
making a product in Ohio
driving it to my house

Do I have that right?

J. Clarke wrote:

But what about the environment? Cargo ships burn a lot of fossil fuels.

A lot less than trucks or trains to move the same tonnage.

I suspect that, on a ton / mile basis, trains use less fuel. They aren't
pushing water out of the way. They aren't fighting currents and cross
winds. They haven't nearly the frictional resistance.

Bulk stuff leaving Asia for Europe will often chug across the Pacific,
roll across the US, then chug across the Atlantic. Saves both time AND
money.


Bill

Bill in Detroit wrote:

Bulk stuff leaving Asia for Europe will often chug across the Pacific,
roll across the US, then chug across the Atlantic. Saves both time AND
money.

Wierd. Seems shorter to chug through Indian ocean, up the Red Sea and
through the suez canal into the Med. Maybe more fiddly though.

Chris

Bill in Detroit wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:

But what about the environment? Cargo ships burn a lot of fossil fuels.

A lot less than trucks or trains to move the same tonnage.

I suspect that, on a ton / mile basis, trains use less fuel. They aren't
pushing water out of the way. They aren't fighting currents and cross
winds. They haven't nearly the frictional resistance.


Cargo ships don't have to have a fleet of vehicles doing repairs and
maintenance on tracks, nor do they cause other vehicle traffic to stop,
idle for 10 minutes and then accelerate back up to speed when they roll
by.

Pete C.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:50:03 -0800, RayV wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:
On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 05:17:16 -0800, RayV wrote:

Brian Henderson wrote:
You should support quality above all else, economy second and
nationalism dead last. If "where you live" makes the best stuff at
the best prices, then by all means buy it. If they make crap at
outrageous prices, buying it only encourages them to continue.

But what about the environment? Cargo ships burn a lot of fossil fuels.

A lot less than trucks or trains to move the same tonnage.


So if I follow the logic less fuel is burned and less pollution is
produced:
making a product in Asia
driving it to the dock
driving a cargo ship to CA or NJ
Driving it to my house

Than:
making a product in Ohio
driving it to my house

Do I have that right?

Actually, if the factory is near the dock and your house is near the dock
then yes, that might very well be right.

To take an example, a typical 18 wheeler uses 100 or so horsepower to haul
40 tons of freight, while a Liberty ship (a small WWII-vintage cargo ship)
uses 2500 horsepower to move 7,000 tons of freight.


--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

RayV wrote:
Brian Henderson wrote:
You should support quality above all else, economy second and
nationalism dead last. If "where you live" makes the best stuff at
the best prices, then by all means buy it. If they make crap at
outrageous prices, buying it only encourages them to continue.

But what about the environment? Cargo ships burn a lot of fossil fuels.

well, unless you mine your own ore, use locally produced power to smelt
it and manufacture with it, all at the same or better efficiencies as
large scale industry does, the difference of pollution from shipping
the finished goods disappears pretty fast.

In article m, "RayV" wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
In article . com, "RayV"
wrote:
Someone posted a few days ago the deal on clamps from Woodcraft. I
ordered them and the FedEx guy pulled up just as I was starting a glue
up (he must have known).

For $20, no shipping, these are a good deal. They're not Jorgensons
but worth the money and the spring clamps are also sturdy.

http://www.woodcraft.com//family.asp...ePageDeal=True

Looks almost too good to be true -- what's the country of origin?


Box reads, "Made in China to Columbian specifications".

Excuse me? "Columbian specifications"?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

RayV wrote:
Brian Henderson wrote:
You should support quality above all else, economy second and
nationalism dead last. If "where you live" makes the best stuff at
the best prices, then by all means buy it. If they make crap at
outrageous prices, buying it only encourages them to continue.

But what about the environment? Cargo ships burn a lot of fossil fuels.

Not to mention that they make stuff cheaper and "better" by polluting.
Some of these companies finish parts of the manufacturing process on
the ships and
dump the waste in the ocean on the way to the USA.. Our great
grandchildren are going to pay the price for those cheap tools we are
enjoying.

On 27 Nov 2006 05:17:16 -0800, "RayV" wrote:

But what about the environment? Cargo ships burn a lot of fossil fuels.

So do SUVs, doesn't stop all the yuppie idiots from buying them.

Brian Henderson wrote:
So do SUVs, doesn't stop all the yuppie idiots from buying them.

Well, "idiot" implies they're doing something irrational. They're not
buying SUVs thinking they're getting great fuel economy; they're buying
them as a status symbol.

Mike

Doug Miller wrote:

Box reads, "Made in China to Columbian specifications".

Excuse me? "Columbian specifications"?

The company, not the country :-).

Part of the WMH tool group (Jet, etc.)

--
It's turtles, all the way down

In article , wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

Box reads, "Made in China to Columbian specifications".

Excuse me? "Columbian specifications"?

The company, not the country :-).

Part of the WMH tool group (Jet, etc.)

Hadn't heard of that before; thanks for the clarification. That had me puzzled
for a while...


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:55:42 -0500, Bill in Detroit wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:

But what about the environment? Cargo ships burn a lot of fossil fuels.

A lot less than trucks or trains to move the same tonnage.

I suspect that, on a ton / mile basis, trains use less fuel. They aren't
pushing water out of the way. They aren't fighting currents and cross
winds. They haven't nearly the frictional resistance.

You're not a sailor are you? Anyone who is has had the experience at
least once in his life of standing with one leg on the dock and one on the
boat and finding that his weight exerts enough force to move a hundred
tons of boat far enough from the dock to drop him in the drink.

You don't move 100 tons of train with one person's muscle power.

Cargo ships don't "fight currents", they use them--ocean currents are well
charted. As for "fighting cross winds" trains "fight" them too--has to be
a Hell of a lot of wind before one does anything resembling "fighting" it
though.

Bulk stuff leaving Asia for Europe will often chug across the Pacific,
roll across the US, then chug across the Atlantic. Saves both time AND
money.

I would be _very_ surprised if unloading it on the west coast and loading
it on the east coast was cheaper than just leaving it on the boat and
running it through the Canal.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:

I would be _very_ surprised if unloading it on the west coast and loading
it on the east coast was cheaper than just leaving it on the boat and
running it through the Canal.


Life is full of little surprises.

I worked for Conrail as a Conductor for 11 years and saw an awful lot of
such freight. Going straight across the US is cheaper than detouring a
thousand miles south, waiting to use the canal, PAYING passage through
the Panama Canal, passing through the canal and then recouping the lost
thousand miles (all the while paying wages to the sailors and handling
maintenance on a very big machine). I probably have the mileage wrong,
but I think I've got a handle on the principle.

Then, too, there's the issue of getting a load to return home with.

Bill
--
Life is like playing a violin in public and learning the instrument as
one goes on.
Samuel Butler (1835 - 1902)

wrote:
Brian Henderson wrote:
So do SUVs, doesn't stop all the yuppie idiots from buying them.

Well, "idiot" implies they're doing something irrational. They're not
buying SUVs thinking they're getting great fuel economy; they're buying
them as a status symbol.

Mike


From a certain perspective (mine, for instance) buying a SUV to flash
as some sort of status symbol counts as irrational.

Bill

--
Life is like playing a violin in public and learning the instrument as
one goes on.
Samuel Butler (1835 - 1902)

Bill in Detroit wrote:


I worked for Conrail as a Conductor for 11 years and saw an awful
lot of
such freight. Going straight across the US is cheaper than detouring a
thousand miles south, .....

snip

All you have to do is drive from Los Angeles to Needles across the
California desert to truly appreciate how truly massive the unit
trains are as they head across the country.

Maybe 200 railroad cars with four (4), 53 ft box trailers on each car
would not be atypical.

Expect to see one of those trains at least every 4-6 hours.

Lots of retailers use those trains as their "warehouse", thus actual
inventories are kept to a minimum.

Lew

Bill in Detroit wrote:
wrote:
Brian Henderson wrote:
So do SUVs, doesn't stop all the yuppie idiots from buying them.

Well, "idiot" implies they're doing something irrational. They're not
buying SUVs thinking they're getting great fuel economy; they're buying
them as a status symbol.

Mike


From a certain perspective (mine, for instance) buying a SUV to flash
as some sort of status symbol counts as irrational.

Bill

Exactly. Buy expensive quality hand tools, and use them to make
beautiful items, for a status symbol. If you need to show off put a
Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley plane on your dashboard while driving:-) Take
it with you when you park, no sense tempting fate.
Joe

Bill in Detroit wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:

I would be _very_ surprised if unloading it on the west coast and loading
it on the east coast was cheaper than just leaving it on the boat and
running it through the Canal.


Life is full of little surprises.

I worked for Conrail as a Conductor for 11 years and saw an awful lot of
such freight. Going straight across the US is cheaper than detouring a
thousand miles south, waiting to use the canal, PAYING passage through
the Panama Canal, passing through the canal and then recouping the lost
thousand miles (all the while paying wages to the sailors and handling
maintenance on a very big machine). I probably have the mileage wrong,
but I think I've got a handle on the principle.

Then, too, there's the issue of getting a load to return home with.

Bill
--
Life is like playing a violin in public and learning the instrument as
one goes on.
Samuel Butler (1835 - 1902)

That, and the fact that some of the newest ships can't fit through the
canal at all. They're working up a project to widen the canal to
accommodate the new ships.

Pete C.

tommyboy writes:

No, they came on Saturday. I didn't post until Sunday morning. Even
so, I was surprised to get a saturday delivery especially since I
didn't pay shipping.

I believe FedEx now does home deliveries on Saturdays at no extra
cost.

Last I heard, Fedex Home only delivers Tuesday through Saturday. Why, I
have no idea as folks aren't home that much more on Saturdays these days.
If you have to get someone to sign, why bother going out the other four
days?

Brian Elfert

"Pete C." writes:

They do, however given the phenomenal amount of cargo they move I expect
their actual efficiency is quite high especially given the fact that
they don't have to stop at traffic lights and similar fuel guzzling
delays. Once they leave port it's pretty much an efficient non stop
cruise at optimum speed the whole way.

Overall, they are still using a lot more fuel than buying something made
in the USA.

Once the containers hit a US port, they still have to be moved to at least
one warehouse and then perhaps to a distributor's warehouse. From there,
it has to be shipped to you.

If an item is made in the USA, it may be shipped from the manufacturer
directly, or shipped to a distributor and then to you.

The made in the USA item won't have all that fuel used by the container
ship and getting the item to/from the container ship.

I don't strictly buy made in the USA items, but country of origin is
certainly a factor. Many items are just not made in the USA anymore or
are very hard to find.

Brian Elfert

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:21:05 +0000, Brian Elfert wrote:

"Pete C." writes:

They do, however given the phenomenal amount of cargo they move I expect
their actual efficiency is quite high especially given the fact that
they don't have to stop at traffic lights and similar fuel guzzling
delays. Once they leave port it's pretty much an efficient non stop
cruise at optimum speed the whole way.

Overall, they are still using a lot more fuel than buying something made
in the USA.

Once the containers hit a US port, they still have to be moved to at least
one warehouse and then perhaps to a distributor's warehouse. From there,
it has to be shipped to you.

If an item is made in the USA, it may be shipped from the manufacturer
directly, or shipped to a distributor and then to you.

The made in the USA item won't have all that fuel used by the container
ship and getting the item to/from the container ship.

I don't strictly buy made in the USA items, but country of origin is
certainly a factor. Many items are just not made in the USA anymore or
are very hard to find.

This whole argument that shipping from Asia "wastes fuel" is Politically
Correct buffoonery.

Factories don't make metal, they buy it from a mill and then cast, forge,
and machine it into the finished product. Mills don't mine metal, they
buy ore from a mine. So the ore gets shipped from the mine, and a
fraction of the weight of the ore gets shipped from the mill as iron or
steel and a fraction of the weight of that is shipped by the factory as
finished tools. The US does not have all the raw materials to make modern
tools--no matter where the tool is made there is significant shipping of
some component of it from overseas, if not as a finished part then as ore
or other raw materials. And it usually uses a lot more energy to ship
that ore than it does to ship the tool.

If you want to buy American because you're loyal to your contry that's
fine, but don't delude yourself that you are "saving energy".

Brian Elfert

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:

This whole argument that shipping from Asia "wastes fuel" is Politically
Correct buffoonery.


"Politically Correct buffoonery", now that is an oxymoron.

On 27 Nov 2006 16:10:14 -0800, wrote:

Brian Henderson wrote:
So do SUVs, doesn't stop all the yuppie idiots from buying them.

Well, "idiot" implies they're doing something irrational. They're not
buying SUVs thinking they're getting great fuel economy; they're buying
them as a status symbol.

Which makes them yuppie idiots.