I am just learning to turn, and thought a slow 8" grinder would be nice to
sharpen gouges. Sears has one on sale for $100.

As much as I love my RAS it is a lousy miter saw; but I don't have room for
a miter saw. Sears has a 7.25" on sale for $80. I figure I can stick it on
the shelf below the RAS.

Good buys, but I don't "really" need them. Then I get an email that online
orders are 10% off. Can't resist. But when I order them they come up as
$70 and $58!

So, I got $210 worth of tools for $128. Not a huge gloat, but from Sears...

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:22:18 GMT, "Tim" wrote:

I am just learning to turn, and thought a slow 8" grinder would be nice to
sharpen gouges. Sears has one on sale for $100.

As much as I love my RAS it is a lousy miter saw; but I don't have room for
a miter saw. Sears has a 7.25" on sale for $80. I figure I can stick it on
the shelf below the RAS.

Good buys, but I don't "really" need them. Then I get an email that online
orders are 10% off. Can't resist. But when I order them they come up as
$70 and $58!

So, I got $210 worth of tools for $128. Not a huge gloat, but from Sears...


Sorry to pee in your Cheerios, but Craftsman tools aren't much of a
bargain even if they're free.

"George Max" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:22:18 GMT, "Tim" wrote:

I am just learning to turn, and thought a slow 8" grinder would be nice to
sharpen gouges. Sears has one on sale for $100.

As much as I love my RAS it is a lousy miter saw; but I don't have room
for
a miter saw. Sears has a 7.25" on sale for $80. I figure I can stick it
on
the shelf below the RAS.

Good buys, but I don't "really" need them. Then I get an email that
online
orders are 10% off. Can't resist. But when I order them they come up as
$70 and $58!

So, I got $210 worth of tools for $128. Not a huge gloat, but from
Sears...


Sorry to pee in your Cheerios, but Craftsman tools aren't much of a
bargain even if they're free.

Is that based on personal experience, or just nonsense you have heard?
I have had a craftsman TS and RAS for years and they are both very decent.
These tool seem alright also. Okay, they are not likely to hold up as well
as $250 tools, but they didn't cost $250.

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:05:39 GMT, "Tim" wrote:


"George Max" wrote in message

Sorry to pee in your Cheerios, but Craftsman tools aren't much of a
bargain even if they're free.

Is that based on personal experience, or just nonsense you have heard?
I have had a craftsman TS and RAS for years and they are both very decent.
These tool seem alright also. Okay, they are not likely to hold up as well
as $250 tools, but they didn't cost $250.


Personal experience. Althought the 6" jointer was o.k. but I sold it
(too short for my projects). The TS (with webbed cast iron extension
wings) was about to get tossed for accuracy problems, but I ended up
modifying it with a Biesemeyer fence, link belt and steel pulleys.
The cast pullys at the time I replaced them were worn heavily enough
in the V groove that they were near failure.

All the electric hand helds that received any regular use died an
early death. Armatures up in smoke, bad switches, mechanisms that
were more noise than work and so on.

Allow me to qualify what I mean by use - occassional
hobbyist/homeowner use. Not pro.

Also, all my Craftman electric tools were initially bought around 1980
to 1985.

The TS lasted until this past weekend when I sold it. Curiously, it
went to the same guy that bought the jointer. His projects are
smaller. It also replaces a Craftsman TS that's simply gone cow ****.
I guess he's a masochist.

Craftsman bashing is the in thing here. Some have had experience, most are
just "me too" types.

"Tim" wrote in message
...
Is that based on personal experience, or just nonsense you have heard?
I have had a craftsman TS and RAS for years and they are both very decent.
These tool seem alright also. Okay, they are not likely to hold up as
well
as $250 tools, but they didn't cost $250.

"CW" wrote

Craftsman bashing is the in thing here. Some have had
experience, most are just "me too" types.

It would seem so

I honestly don't give a crappe one way or the other... I guess my problem is
with predjudice in any form (shrug)

I have Craftsman, DeWalt, Delta, Freud, Ridgid, and Ryobi power tools. Oh,
and a B&D belt sander.... I buy whatever goes on sale (big-time sale, I
mean) because I know that, by and large, there isn't much difference:
They're either made in a place with good Quality Control and are expensive,
or made in a place with poor Quality Control and are cheap. The rest is
pretty much fluff.

As for hand tools, I used to be a Snap-On snob, but I fortunately grew out
of that. In these days of no-questions-asked lifetime guarantees and most of
the stuff coming from the same couple of manufactures anyway, paying for the
Big Name is plain stoopit. Er, IMHO

Cheers!

Gary

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:32:13 -0400, "Gary"
wrote:

"CW" wrote

Craftsman bashing is the in thing here. Some have had
experience, most are just "me too" types.

It would seem so

I honestly don't give a crappe one way or the other... I guess my problem is
with predjudice in any form (shrug)

I have Craftsman, DeWalt, Delta, Freud, Ridgid, and Ryobi power tools. Oh,
and a B&D belt sander.... I buy whatever goes on sale (big-time sale, I
mean) because I know that, by and large, there isn't much difference:
They're either made in a place with good Quality Control and are expensive,
or made in a place with poor Quality Control and are cheap. The rest is
pretty much fluff.

As for hand tools, I used to be a Snap-On snob, but I fortunately grew out
of that. In these days of no-questions-asked lifetime guarantees and most of
the stuff coming from the same couple of manufactures anyway, paying for the
Big Name is plain stoopit. Er, IMHO

Cheers!

Gary


Buying solely on price doesn't make much sense either. There really
is a reason a Big Name became a big name. And I don't mean hype. I
mean they perform well.

There are many reasons for buying one thing instead of another but
lets face facts - some brands/tools that cost more are that way
because they really are a superior product.

"CW" wrote in message
link.net...

most are just "me too" types.

That's the most intelligent statement I've seen in this thread. RM~

most are just "me too" types.

That's the most intelligent statement I've seen in this thread. RM~

Me too.


--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com

George Max wrote:
Sorry to pee in your Cheerios, but Craftsman tools aren't much of a
bargain even if they're free.

I have to agree. He could have done this:

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-GR275-Va...6?ie=UTF8&s=hi

and this:

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-SM100M-1...6?ie=UTF8&s=hi


The miter saw is a bit more, but it's 10" and probably a lot better
than the craftsman. I have an older version of this miter saw. It's
not great, but it does the job.

brian

brianlanning wrote:
George Max wrote:
Sorry to pee in your Cheerios, but Craftsman tools aren't much of a
bargain even if they're free.

I have to agree. He could have done this:

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-GR275-Va...6?ie=UTF8&s=hi


Don't be so sure...

I had that (2) copies of that grinder, one via warranty. It was an
unmitigated piece of crap, barely suitable for lawn mower blades. The
speed control failed with barely 10 hours of use, the shafts had runout,
and the tool rests stunk. About the only useable part was the lamp! 8^(

I finally got a used Baldor, now I can grind tools!

B A R R Y wrote:
Don't be so sure...

I'm not at all sure. I just grabbed a link from amazon. :-)

I had that (2) copies of that grinder, one via warranty. It was an
unmitigated piece of crap, barely suitable for lawn mower blades. The
speed control failed with barely 10 hours of use, the shafts had runout,
and the tool rests stunk. About the only useable part was the lamp! 8^(
I finally got a used Baldor, now I can grind tools!

But was it better than the craftsman? ;-)

The small delta tools I've had have been hit or miss. The drill press
I have has been great. So was the lunchbox planer. The benchtop
tablesaw was ok for what it was, which wasn't much. The benchtop
bandsaw and jointer were utter garbage. The delta 10" miter saw has
been ok, but hard to adjust and keep adjusted. It likes to deflect on
miter cuts also. It worked flawlessly when I cut all the 2x4s to
finish my basement though. As mortermer said, it's nice to have a
light-weight one around to carry to job sites if you need it. Having
said all that, the 12" PC miter saw is spectacular. I can actually see
myself cutting miters with it.

brian

In article .com,
brianlanning wrote:
...snipped...
But was it better than the craftsman? ;-)

The small delta tools I've had have been hit or miss. The drill press
I have has been great. So was the lunchbox planer. The benchtop
tablesaw was ok for what it was, which wasn't much. The benchtop
bandsaw and jointer were utter garbage. The delta 10" miter saw has
been ok, but hard to adjust and keep adjusted. It likes to deflect on
miter cuts also. It worked flawlessly when I cut all the 2x4s to
finish my basement though. As mortermer said, it's nice to have a
light-weight one around to carry to job sites if you need it. Having
said all that, the 12" PC miter saw is spectacular. I can actually see
myself cutting miters with it.

brian


I don't believe that you will find a decent benchtop bandsaw or
benchtop jointer frim _any_ manufacturer.
--
No dumb questions, just dumb answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

On 26 Oct 2006 13:40:09 -0700, "brianlanning"
wrote:

But was it better than the craftsman? ;-)

The small delta tools I've had have been hit or miss. The drill press
I have has been great. So was the lunchbox planer. The benchtop
tablesaw was ok for what it was, which wasn't much. The benchtop
bandsaw and jointer were utter garbage. The delta 10" miter saw has
been ok, but hard to adjust and keep adjusted. It likes to deflect on
miter cuts also. It worked flawlessly when I cut all the 2x4s to
finish my basement though. As mortermer said, it's nice to have a
light-weight one around to carry to job sites if you need it. Having
said all that, the 12" PC miter saw is spectacular. I can actually see
myself cutting miters with it.

One major rule for buying Delta, learned the hard way. If it says
"Shopmaster", it's just a toy with the Delta logo on it, and you will
outgrow it- usually before it's even out of the box. If it says
"Industrial", it's a tool worth owning. True over 80% of the time on
the Delta stuff you'll find in the store these days- if I'd have known
that earlier, it would have saved me several hundred dollars.

On the bright side, the Delta logo counts for enough that even the
Shopmaster line keeps it's value pretty well if you decide to resell
it.

brianlanning wrote:

But was it better than the craftsman? ;-)



Unfortunately, they may originate from the same Chinese factory, right
next to the Harbor Freight and Grizzly assembly line. 8^( At least
Grizzly will stand behind it.

I like my small(er) Delta drill press too! This also goes for my DJ-20,
miter saw, and 12" disc sander.

The Delta 6" variable speed grinder truly seemed like they took the
cheapest Chinese example they could find, painted it gray, and slapped a
Delta name plate on it.

On the other hand, some Craftsman stuff is rebadged good stuff, like the
Crafstman version of the Bosch 1617EVS router. I'm not much of a
gambler, and the service SUCKS (capital!) at my local Sears entities, so
I personally skip all of it. Why deal with the hassle?

Luckily, when I need a burlfurl, I just go to Coastal Tool, run my
sticky fingers over all of the brands of burlfurl, and take the one that
sticks the best up to Wayne at the counter. G If I change my mind on
the way home, I can still go back and swap for the runner-up. Screw
Sears and guessing games! I can always gamble @ Foxwoods or Mohegan Sun
or on Powerball. G

"brianlanning" wrote in message
oups.com...
George Max wrote:
Sorry to pee in your Cheerios, but Craftsman tools aren't much of a
bargain even if they're free.

I have to agree. He could have done this:

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-GR275-Va...6?ie=UTF8&s=hi

and this:

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-SM100M-1...6?ie=UTF8&s=hi


The miter saw is a bit more, but it's 10" and probably a lot better
than the craftsman. I have an older version of this miter saw. It's
not great, but it does the job.

Well, lets see... my grinder is 8" rather than 6", it has a slower bottom
speed, and a more powerful motor; all for $8 less. Yeah, I think I pick the
better one. (Sears has one identical to the Delta 6" for $50.)

The Delta miter saw is twice the price and too large for what wanted. Hmm.
I think I chose correctly.

You guys are just jealous because you don't get gloats. (I bought a $500
leaf blower off craigslist for $50 last week. Kinda old, but starts on the
first pull. Anyone want to try to tear that one down? Or maybe the
parachute I bought at a garage sale for $18 and sold on ebay for $360? Or
the 200bf of oak I bought on ebay for $1. Or the exercise machine I found
in the street waiting for trash pickup that I sold on ebay for $450?)

Tim wrote:
"brianlanning" wrote in message
You guys are just jealous because you don't get gloats.

It's not jealousy in this case, just a strong hatred for all things
craftsman. Their large tools (like the new table saws) have been
getting better. But they have had many many years of using their good
name to push junk on people. Just ask around about the random height
adjustment feature. I'd buy another ryobi tool before craftsman. And
that's saying a lot.

On the other hand, there's that new router that's a clone of the bosch.
I have to wonder if it's different or just a rebadge. iirc, the
craftsman is cheaper. I have to wonder why. It may just be marketing,
or maybe not. I would probably just buy the bosch to be sure unless I
could get a major discount on the craftsman.

brian

"brianlanning" wrote

I'd buy another ryobi tool before craftsman.

Who do you think is building a lot of the tools for Craftsman these days?
Table saws, hand tools? Yup: Ryobi.

I shake my head when I see/hear people babbling that Craftsman is Crappe:
Fact is that "Craftsman" doesn't make tools... They're rebadged Deltas, B&D,
Ryobis, Bosch, etc., etc......

Not too long ago there was a brouhaha in here about a bunch of (economy) 14"
bandsaws. All had their passionate champions and detractors. Funny thing was
that most of the saws being discussed all came off the same line in China:
The only difference was in the logos on the wheel covers.

Like all predjudices, this supposed hatred of all things Craftsman is born
in ignorance.

Wanna say something that makes sense? Say that Sears charges way too much
for most of their Craftsman products, and if you don't wait until they're on
sale (big time) before you buy, well, you're stupid.

_That_ would be true.

Cheers!

Gary

They have a jig saw that is identical (at leat externally) to the Bosch.
I am curious if they are the same internally.


brianlanning wrote:

Tim wrote:

"brianlanning" wrote in message
You guys are just jealous because you don't get gloats.


It's not jealousy in this case, just a strong hatred for all things
craftsman. Their large tools (like the new table saws) have been
getting better. But they have had many many years of using their good
name to push junk on people. Just ask around about the random height
adjustment feature. I'd buy another ryobi tool before craftsman. And
that's saying a lot.

On the other hand, there's that new router that's a clone of the bosch.
I have to wonder if it's different or just a rebadge. iirc, the
craftsman is cheaper. I have to wonder why. It may just be marketing,
or maybe not. I would probably just buy the bosch to be sure unless I
could get a major discount on the craftsman.

brian

"brianlanning" wrote in message
ups.com...
Tim wrote:
"brianlanning" wrote in message
You guys are just jealous because you don't get gloats.

It's not jealousy in this case, just a strong hatred for all things
craftsman. Their large tools (like the new table saws) have been
getting better. But they have had many many years of using their good
name to push junk on people. Just ask around about the random height
adjustment feature. I'd buy another ryobi tool before craftsman. And
that's saying a lot.

On the other hand, there's that new router that's a clone of the bosch.
I have to wonder if it's different or just a rebadge. iirc, the
craftsman is cheaper. I have to wonder why. It may just be marketing,
or maybe not. I would probably just buy the bosch to be sure unless I
could get a major discount on the craftsman.

If it's a "Craftsman Professional" and looks just like a Bosch except for
the colors and the nameplate then it's almost certainly a Bosch. For a
while they were selling a rebadged Bosch jigsaw too.

Nice thing about Sears is that they buy a ton of parts for whatever they
sell and hold onto them until the use up the stock. I can still get parts
for my old radial arm saw, while Bosch USA doesn't even know that the jigsaw
I got at the same time ever existed.

Yeah, what he said.....

Tim wrote:

Well, lets see... my grinder is 8" rather than 6", it has a slower bottom
speed, and a more powerful motor; all for $8 less. Yeah, I think I pick the
better one. (Sears has one identical to the Delta 6" for $50.)

The Delta miter saw is twice the price and too large for what wanted. Hmm.
I think I chose correctly.

You guys are just jealous because you don't get gloats. (I bought a $500
leaf blower off craigslist for $50 last week. Kinda old, but starts on the
first pull. Anyone want to try to tear that one down? Or maybe the
parachute I bought at a garage sale for $18 and sold on ebay for $360? Or
the 200bf of oak I bought on ebay for $1. Or the exercise machine I found
in the street waiting for trash pickup that I sold on ebay for $450?)

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:22:39 GMT, "Tim" wrote:


"brianlanning" wrote in message
roups.com...
George Max wrote:
Sorry to pee in your Cheerios, but Craftsman tools aren't much of a
bargain even if they're free.

I have to agree. He could have done this:

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-GR275-Va...6?ie=UTF8&s=hi

and this:

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-SM100M-1...6?ie=UTF8&s=hi


The miter saw is a bit more, but it's 10" and probably a lot better
than the craftsman. I have an older version of this miter saw. It's
not great, but it does the job.

Well, lets see... my grinder is 8" rather than 6", it has a slower bottom
speed, and a more powerful motor; all for $8 less. Yeah, I think I pick the
better one. (Sears has one identical to the Delta 6" for $50.)

The Delta miter saw is twice the price and too large for what wanted. Hmm.
I think I chose correctly.

Maybe. You bought for today. And when you get a hankerin' to build
something too big for it tomorrow it won't look like as good a deal.


You guys are just jealous because you don't get gloats. (I bought a $500
leaf blower off craigslist for $50 last week. Kinda old, but starts on the
first pull. Anyone want to try to tear that one down? Or maybe the
parachute I bought at a garage sale for $18 and sold on ebay for $360? Or
the 200bf of oak I bought on ebay for $1. Or the exercise machine I found
in the street waiting for trash pickup that I sold on ebay for $450?)


If you need a leaf blower, that doesn't sound too bad.

You bought a parachute at a garage sale? Care to trust it with your
life? Who are your survivors going to look to if it's determined to
be defective? IMO, that's an item better bought from a reputable
supplier.

Good deal on the oak. That's nice.

Exercise machines are like that. I run a silent auction at my church
every summer. Most years people are so eager to donate them I have to
decline most of the ones offered. These are things people buy with
the best intentions and then find excercise *really is* hard work.

But the original point is that Sears isn't/hasn't been the best place
to buy power tools. In addition to shoddy quality on most of them,
their customer service is poor.

I especially hate the extended warranty hard sell. My last shop vac
came from Sears. A $50 unit that they tried pushing a $20 warranty
on. I think they're using the warranty to pump up the profit.
Instead of irritating me, why not sell a better built unit that's not
likely to need repair and sell it for a little more? Quality will win
over the long haul. The good word will spread. Then they won't be a
laughingstock.

"George Max" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:22:39 GMT, "Tim" wrote:


"brianlanning" wrote in message
groups.com...
George Max wrote:
Sorry to pee in your Cheerios, but Craftsman tools aren't much of a
bargain even if they're free.

I have to agree. He could have done this:

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-GR275-Va...6?ie=UTF8&s=hi

and this:

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-SM100M-1...6?ie=UTF8&s=hi


The miter saw is a bit more, but it's 10" and probably a lot better
than the craftsman. I have an older version of this miter saw. It's
not great, but it does the job.

Well, lets see... my grinder is 8" rather than 6", it has a slower
bottom
speed, and a more powerful motor; all for $8 less. Yeah, I think I pick
the
better one. (Sears has one identical to the Delta 6" for $50.)

The Delta miter saw is twice the price and too large for what wanted.
Hmm.
I think I chose correctly.

Maybe. You bought for today. And when you get a hankerin' to build
something too big for it tomorrow it won't look like as good a deal.


You guys are just jealous because you don't get gloats. (I bought a $500
leaf blower off craigslist for $50 last week. Kinda old, but starts on
the
first pull. Anyone want to try to tear that one down? Or maybe the
parachute I bought at a garage sale for $18 and sold on ebay for $360? Or
the 200bf of oak I bought on ebay for $1. Or the exercise machine I found
in the street waiting for trash pickup that I sold on ebay for $450?)


If you need a leaf blower, that doesn't sound too bad.

You bought a parachute at a garage sale? Care to trust it with your
life? Who are your survivors going to look to if it's determined to
be defective? IMO, that's an item better bought from a reputable
supplier.

Good deal on the oak. That's nice.

Exercise machines are like that. I run a silent auction at my church
every summer. Most years people are so eager to donate them I have to
decline most of the ones offered. These are things people buy with
the best intentions and then find excercise *really is* hard work.

But the original point is that Sears isn't/hasn't been the best place
to buy power tools. In addition to shoddy quality on most of them,
their customer service is poor.

I especially hate the extended warranty hard sell. My last shop vac
came from Sears. A $50 unit that they tried pushing a $20 warranty
on. I think they're using the warranty to pump up the profit.
Instead of irritating me, why not sell a better built unit that's not
likely to need repair and sell it for a little more? Quality will win
over the long haul. The good word will spread. Then they won't be a
laughingstock.

Asking if you want an extended warranty isn't "hard sell". If you think it
is you haven't ever _seen_ "hard sell". The last time I encountered "hard
sell" the salesmen didn't back off until Sam Colt became a party to the
negotiation.

The Delta miter saw is twice the price and too large for what wanted.
Hmm.
I think I chose correctly.

Maybe. You bought for today. And when you get a hankerin' to build
something too big for it tomorrow it won't look like as good a deal.

Well, I could use the RAS I mentioned.

You guys are just jealous because you don't get gloats. (I bought a $500
leaf blower off craigslist for $50 last week. Kinda old, but starts on
the
first pull. Anyone want to try to tear that one down? Or maybe the
parachute I bought at a garage sale for $18 and sold on ebay for $360? Or
the 200bf of oak I bought on ebay for $1. Or the exercise machine I found
in the street waiting for trash pickup that I sold on ebay for $450?)


If you need a leaf blower, that doesn't sound too bad.

I am in the middle of 100 acres of oak/maple/cherry. Sure do.

You bought a parachute at a garage sale? Care to trust it with your
life? Who are your survivors going to look to if it's determined to
be defective? IMO, that's an item better bought from a reputable
supplier.

I have three jumps, and just thought it was a nice knickknack; never planned
to use it. Selling it for a 2000% profit was serendipidy.

"Tim" wrote in message
...

"brianlanning" wrote in message
oups.com...
George Max wrote:
Sorry to pee in your Cheerios, but Craftsman tools aren't much of a
bargain even if they're free.

I have to agree. He could have done this:

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-GR275-Va...6?ie=UTF8&s=hi

and this:

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-SM100M-1...6?ie=UTF8&s=hi


The miter saw is a bit more, but it's 10" and probably a lot better
than the craftsman. I have an older version of this miter saw. It's
not great, but it does the job.

Well, lets see... my grinder is 8" rather than 6", it has a slower
bottom speed, and a more powerful motor; all for $8 less. Yeah, I think I
pick the better one. (Sears has one identical to the Delta 6" for $50.)

The Delta miter saw is twice the price and too large for what wanted.
Hmm. I think I chose correctly.

You guys are just jealous because you don't get gloats. (I bought a $500
leaf blower off craigslist for $50 last week. Kinda old, but starts on
the first pull. Anyone want to try to tear that one down? Or maybe the
parachute I bought at a garage sale for $18 and sold on ebay for $360? Or
the 200bf of oak I bought on ebay for $1. Or the exercise machine I found
in the street waiting for trash pickup that I sold on ebay for $450?)


BURRRRRRRRPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

Tim wrote:
You guys are just jealous because you don't get gloats. (I bought a $500
leaf blower off craigslist for $50 last week. Kinda old, but starts on the
first pull. Anyone want to try to tear that one down? Or maybe the
parachute I bought at a garage sale for $18 and sold on ebay for $360? Or
the 200bf of oak I bought on ebay for $1. Or the exercise machine I found
in the street waiting for trash pickup that I sold on ebay for $450?)

Tim,

Some people on this group live to just crap on other people's posts...
Just ignore them.

Tim wrote:
You guys are just jealous because you don't get gloats. (I bought a $500
leaf blower off craigslist for $50 last week. Kinda old, but starts on the
first pull. Anyone want to try to tear that one down? Or maybe the
parachute I bought at a garage sale for $18 and sold on ebay for $360? Or
the 200bf of oak I bought on ebay for $1. Or the exercise machine I found
in the street waiting for trash pickup that I sold on ebay for $450?)

Tim,

Some people on this group live to just crap on other people's posts...
Just ignore them.

"brianlanning" wrote in message
oups.com...
George Max wrote:
Sorry to pee in your Cheerios, but Craftsman tools aren't much of a
bargain even if they're free.

I have to agree. He could have done this:

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-GR275-Va...6?ie=UTF8&s=hi

and this:

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-SM100M-1...6?ie=UTF8&s=hi


The miter saw is a bit more, but it's 10" and probably a lot better
than the craftsman. I have an older version of this miter saw. It's
not great, but it does the job.

brian

The grinder you mention is a 6 inch. Sears has that one for 69.95. (Not
that I would want one)

Max

George Max wrote:
As much as I love my RAS it is a lousy miter saw; but I don't have room for
a miter saw. Sears has a 7.25" on sale for $80. I figure I can stick it on
the shelf below the RAS.


Ordinarily I'm a proponent of buying tools you can grow into since I've ****ed
away so much money in the past buying what I needed for today, only to find it
wasn't enough tool for tomorrow's project. That being said, if that little
miter saw can cut 2X4s, it'll be quite a bit handier to take to the small jobs
around the house than that great big 12" Dewalt I own. Even with its rolling
stand and work supports, it's a horse. I really end up thinking about whether
it's worth my time to set it up for small jobs. He'll do better with his little
one. If the work is bigger, he's no worse off than before... he still has his
RAS.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...
George Max wrote:
As much as I love my RAS it is a lousy miter saw; but I don't have room
for
a miter saw. Sears has a 7.25" on sale for $80. I figure I can stick
it on
the shelf below the RAS.


Ordinarily I'm a proponent of buying tools you can grow into since I've
****ed away so much money in the past buying what I needed for today, only
to find it wasn't enough tool for tomorrow's project. That being said, if
that little miter saw can cut 2X4s, it'll be quite a bit handier to take
to the small jobs around the house than that great big 12" Dewalt I own.
Even with its rolling stand and work supports, it's a horse. I really end
up thinking about whether it's worth my time to set it up for small jobs.
He'll do better with his little one. If the work is bigger, he's no worse
off than before... he still has his RAS.

It will cut 2". And yes, I wanted it in particular because it weighs 16
pounds.

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:08:54 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote:

George Max wrote:
As much as I love my RAS it is a lousy miter saw; but I don't have room for
a miter saw. Sears has a 7.25" on sale for $80. I figure I can stick it on
the shelf below the RAS.


Ordinarily I'm a proponent of buying tools you can grow into since I've ****ed
away so much money in the past buying what I needed for today, only to find it
wasn't enough tool for tomorrow's project. That being said, if that little
miter saw can cut 2X4s, it'll be quite a bit handier to take to the small jobs
around the house than that great big 12" Dewalt I own. Even with its rolling
stand and work supports, it's a horse. I really end up thinking about whether
it's worth my time to set it up for small jobs. He'll do better with his little
one. If the work is bigger, he's no worse off than before... he still has his
RAS.


I didn't write what you've quoted, Tim did.

"George Max" wrote

Sorry to pee in your Cheerios, but Craftsman tools aren't much of a
bargain even if they're free.

Oh? What, exactly, are "Craftsman tools"?

Would a Delta tool be OK if it was free?

A Ryobi?

How about a Bosch? B&D?Freud?

Cheers!

Gary (shaking my head)

I had a district manager from Sears explain it to me a long time ago when I
worked there as a salesman and later dept. manager. Some are a straight
re-label which usually are there "professional" or "Sears Best" tools. The
ones that offer little savings over the originals. Next are the
re-specified. Look like the nice competitors tools but are half the cost and
a fraction of the quality. Usually these are the "better" quality (LOL) they
push in the ads. Most of the time they are made with junk or poor quality
parts by the original manufactuer. The last is the entry level tools. These
are mostly their design and are made much the same way as the "better" tools
except by a plant they own. The only difference is the power, weight, size,
etc. These are the "good" tools they advertise all the time. Yes some of the
lower quality can be fine. I actually have one of their RO sanders that I
like better than a PC that I just bought.

My random height adjustment router, automatic diagonal cut circ saw, and
tension free band saw from Sears are hardly worth there weight in mud. But
the biscuit joiner, RO sander, 6" bench grinder, and hand held grinder that
I have from them are actually pretty decent. So I guess it depends on the
specific tool.

Now some of the Makita stuff...that's garbage..

Allen

"Gary" wrote in message
...
"George Max" wrote

Sorry to pee in your Cheerios, but Craftsman tools aren't much of a
bargain even if they're free.

Oh? What, exactly, are "Craftsman tools"?

Would a Delta tool be OK if it was free?

A Ryobi?

How about a Bosch? B&D?Freud?

Cheers!

Gary (shaking my head)

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 01:21:38 GMT, "Allen Roy"
wrote:

it depends on the
specific tool.

Now some of the Makita stuff...that's garbage..

Allen

My Makita router, 3601B, wonderful. It's got a real knuckebuster for
a collet, but it always does what it's supposed to do and has a lot of
power. No fancy stuff like soft start or variable speed, just good
honest quality.

"George Max" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 01:21:38 GMT, "Allen Roy"
wrote:

it depends on the
specific tool.

Now some of the Makita stuff...that's garbage..

Allen

My Makita router, 3601B, wonderful. It's got a real knuckebuster for
a collet, but it always does what it's supposed to do and has a lot of
power. No fancy stuff like soft start or variable speed, just good
honest quality.


Hence why I said some....

I had a recip saw from Makita that broke 2 inches into the first cut.
Fustrated, I took it back and exchanged it. It lasted about 6 months of use
(light duty) then came time for some heavy use when the end of it exploded
in my hand. A trip to the ER and OR fixed my hand but for some reason they
were quick to settle before it turned into a lawsuit. And yes it was the
same thing that broke the second time taking more of the saw with it this
time.

Then to boot I had an older Makita drill that lasted through a lot of
heavy use. Broke the day the doctor let me back into the shop and all I was
doing was drilling a 1/4" hole through some pine.

But my dad swears by there circ saws.

Allen

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 08:04:19 -0500, George Max wrote:

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 01:21:38 GMT, "Allen Roy"
wrote:

it depends on the
specific tool.

Now some of the Makita stuff...that's garbage..

Allen

My Makita router, 3601B, wonderful. It's got a real knuckebuster for
a collet, but it always does what it's supposed to do and has a lot of
power. No fancy stuff like soft start or variable speed, just good
honest quality.

Makita belt-sanders are awfully nice as well. Tried one head-to-head
against a Porter Cable, and the Makita was the better tool by far.
Same guy who had the sander swore by the 2.6amp cordless drill as
well.

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:00:36 -0400, "Gary"
wrote:

"George Max" wrote

Sorry to pee in your Cheerios, but Craftsman tools aren't much of a
bargain even if they're free.

Oh? What, exactly, are "Craftsman tools"?

Since you're clueless, they're the ones sold at Sears.


Would a Delta tool be OK if it was free?

Maybe. Maybe not. If it were a DJ-20, definitely If it were their
14" bandsaw, definitely.


A Ryobi?

How about a Bosch? B&D?Freud?

Cheers!

Gary (shaking my head)


Shake your head until you're dizzy. 30 years of my experience says
avoid Sears for power tools. Or nowadays for almost anything.

Time was when Sears was my first choice for everything. Now they're
not my choice for anything.

Poor quality and bad customer service will do that.

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 08:08:34 -0500, George Max wrote:

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:00:36 -0400, "Gary"
wrote:

"George Max" wrote

Sorry to pee in your Cheerios, but Craftsman tools aren't much of a
bargain even if they're free.

Oh? What, exactly, are "Craftsman tools"?

Since you're clueless, they're the ones sold at Sears.

....or K-Mart....

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:45:09 -0500, George Max wrote:

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:22:18 GMT, "Tim" wrote:

I am just learning to turn, and thought a slow 8" grinder would be nice to
sharpen gouges. Sears has one on sale for $100.

As much as I love my RAS it is a lousy miter saw; but I don't have room for
a miter saw. Sears has a 7.25" on sale for $80. I figure I can stick it on
the shelf below the RAS.

Good buys, but I don't "really" need them. Then I get an email that online
orders are 10% off. Can't resist. But when I order them they come up as
$70 and $58!

So, I got $210 worth of tools for $128. Not a huge gloat, but from Sears...


Sorry to pee in your Cheerios, but Craftsman tools aren't much of a
bargain even if they're free.

Not exactly true, that. I've got some really nice tools from Sears in
the past. They're all hand tools, but I wouldn't trade the chisels I
bought there for anything else. Ditto for the dovetail saw, and a few
other smaller items.

All of them have Craftsman logos, and they're all very nice. Couldn't
say about the power tools, as there has always been a more attractive
option elsewhere.

George Max wrote:


Sorry to pee in your Cheerios, but Craftsman tools aren't much of a
bargain even if they're free.




that's a blanket statement, and like all blanket statements it has a
grain (at least) of truth. however, it most emphatically is not
absolutely true. for instance, my 18" craftsman bandsaw from the '70s
made by parks is a total tank. I still have the first router I ever
owned, a pawnshop all metal r2d2 looking thing, that while not a great
piece of machinery refuses to die. the fact that I rarely use it
anymore may have something to do with that, though. my craftsman
wrenches and such are entirely adequate to my needs... though I'll
reach for the snapon and wright stuff first if I have them in the sizes
I need.

nah, craftsman tools can't all be painted the same color, unless you're
JOAT.