Anyone seen any tools to help cope crown? Rockler has a plastic
device to help keep a jig saw at right angle and still sit on
something. Doesn't look like it would help much.....

Highland Hardware sells a coping foot that relaces the flat base of a
jig saw with a rounded piece. Looks like it would work good but
probably has a huge learning curve.

I'm only doing a single room and don't need a Copemaster or anything
that will take the entrie room's worth of molding to practice on.

TIA

Coping saw.
wrote in message
...
Anyone seen any tools to help cope crown? Rockler has a plastic
device to help keep a jig saw at right angle and still sit on
something. Doesn't look like it would help much.....

Highland Hardware sells a coping foot that relaces the flat base of a
jig saw with a rounded piece. Looks like it would work good but
probably has a huge learning curve.

I'm only doing a single room and don't need a Copemaster or anything
that will take the entrie room's worth of molding to practice on.

TIA

wrote in message
...
Anyone seen any tools to help cope crown? Rockler has a plastic
device to help keep a jig saw at right angle and still sit on
something. Doesn't look like it would help much.....

Highland Hardware sells a coping foot that relaces the flat base of a
jig saw with a rounded piece. Looks like it would work good but
probably has a huge learning curve.

I'm only doing a single room and don't need a Copemaster or anything
that will take the entrie room's worth of molding to practice on.


A pencil, a coping saw, a utility knife, and a Dremel Moto Tool
(or a few small files/rasps).

I assume you are trying to get a good fit on an inside corner?

For that, put one piece in "square cut" so that it fits flush
against the wall. The second piece gets coped. Cut that
piece at a 45 degree angle. Use the side of the pencil lead
to mark the edge. Cope back along that line just a little more
than 45 degrees, careful not to overshoot the line. Then,
using a 1/2" diameter sanding drum on the Dremel, file
away as much as needed. Make the places where the
shape changes "perfect" with the knife.

Test your work, on the floor, against a scrap. When you've
"got it," then climb the ladder and put it in place.

Remember, ONLY the VISIBLE intersection of the two pieces
matters. The joint does NOT have to be good enough for
gluing.

"Piece of cake." After all, it's "only a single room" so you
only do this four times, typically.

Jim Stuyck

In article , "Jim Stuyck" wrote:

I assume you are trying to get a good fit on an inside corner?

For that, put one piece in "square cut" so that it fits flush
against the wall. The second piece gets coped. Cut that
piece at a 45 degree angle.

Hold it right there!

If you lay crown molding *flat* on your table saw or radial arm saw, or stand
it up *flat* against the fence on your chop saw, and then cut the end at 45
degrees, it ain't gonna be right.

The molding needs to be tilted to the same orientation that it will be in when
installed, and *then* mitered at 45 degrees, for the cut line to be in the
right place.

Except for that minor detail, you have everything else right.

Use the side of the pencil lead
to mark the edge. Cope back along that line just a little more
than 45 degrees, careful not to overshoot the line. Then,
using a 1/2" diameter sanding drum on the Dremel, file
away as much as needed. Make the places where the
shape changes "perfect" with the knife.

Test your work, on the floor, against a scrap. When you've
"got it," then climb the ladder and put it in place.

Remember, ONLY the VISIBLE intersection of the two pieces
matters. The joint does NOT have to be good enough for
gluing.

"Piece of cake." After all, it's "only a single room" so you
only do this four times, typically.

Jim Stuyck



--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , "Jim Stuyck"
wrote:

I assume you are trying to get a good fit on an inside corner?

For that, put one piece in "square cut" so that it fits flush
against the wall. The second piece gets coped. Cut that
piece at a 45 degree angle.

Hold it right there!

If you lay crown molding *flat* on your table saw or radial arm saw, or
stand
it up *flat* against the fence on your chop saw, and then cut the end at
45
degrees, it ain't gonna be right.

The molding needs to be tilted to the same orientation that it will be in
when
installed, and *then* mitered at 45 degrees, for the cut line to be in the
right place.

I thought that would be "understood." ;-)

Actually, "chop saw" is yet another "tool." Or a miter box.

And as to "orientation," typically you put it into the chop saw
upside down (the fence of the saw represents the wall, the
table of the saw represents the ceiling, giving you two good
surfaces to hold the molding against without wobble).

Jim Stuyck

Jim Stuyck wrote:
wrote in message
...
Anyone seen any tools to help cope crown?

snip

I'm only doing a single room and don't need a Copemaster or anything
that will take the entrie room's worth of molding to practice on.

snip
For that, put one piece in "square cut" so that it fits flush
against the wall. The second piece gets coped. Cut that
piece at a 45 degree angle. Use the side of the pencil lead
to mark the edge. Cope back along that line just a little more
than 45 degrees, careful not to overshoot the line.

Hey Jim, why the pencil? If you cut the board 45º (properly oriented
for crown molding), then you already have your edge clearly defined for
you by the beveled/mitered cut. At least, that's how I've always done
it.

Curious,
H

"hylourgos" wrote in message
ups.com...

Jim Stuyck wrote:
wrote in message
...
Anyone seen any tools to help cope crown?

snip

I'm only doing a single room and don't need a Copemaster or anything
that will take the entrie room's worth of molding to practice on.

snip
For that, put one piece in "square cut" so that it fits flush
against the wall. The second piece gets coped. Cut that
piece at a 45 degree angle. Use the side of the pencil lead
to mark the edge. Cope back along that line just a little more
than 45 degrees, careful not to overshoot the line.

Hey Jim, why the pencil? If you cut the board 45º (properly oriented
for crown molding), then you already have your edge clearly defined for
you by the beveled/mitered cut. At least, that's how I've always done
it.

Curious,
H

The pencil mark, along the edge, serves as a clear "mark" to which
you cope the joint. Without the mark it's easy to lose track of the
edge. The technique is DON'T lose the mark.

Jim Stuyck

"Jim Stuyck" wrote in message
. ..

"hylourgos" wrote in message
ups.com...

Jim Stuyck wrote:
wrote in message
...
Anyone seen any tools to help cope crown?

snip

I'm only doing a single room and don't need a Copemaster or anything
that will take the entrie room's worth of molding to practice on.

snip
For that, put one piece in "square cut" so that it fits flush
against the wall. The second piece gets coped. Cut that
piece at a 45 degree angle. Use the side of the pencil lead
to mark the edge. Cope back along that line just a little more
than 45 degrees, careful not to overshoot the line.

Hey Jim, why the pencil? If you cut the board 45º (properly oriented
for crown molding), then you already have your edge clearly defined for
you by the beveled/mitered cut. At least, that's how I've always done
it.

Curious,
H

The pencil mark, along the edge, serves as a clear "mark" to which
you cope the joint. Without the mark it's easy to lose track of the
edge. The technique is DON'T lose the mark.

Jim Stuyck

I have always used a pencil line on the sharp edge of the cut too. Found it
makes it a lot easier
to follow the edge line when using a coping saw
Chuck

On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 04:56:03 -0500, wrote:

Anyone seen any tools to help cope crown? Rockler has a plastic
device to help keep a jig saw at right angle and still sit on
something. Doesn't look like it would help much.....

Highland Hardware sells a coping foot that relaces the flat base of a
jig saw with a rounded piece. Looks like it would work good but
probably has a huge learning curve.

I'm only doing a single room and don't need a Copemaster or anything
that will take the entrie room's worth of molding to practice on.

TIA


As some of the guys point out above, it needs to sit on the mitre saw
in the same orientation that it will sit on the wall, except upside
down. Even small deviations from the exact correct position will make
the cut line incorrect. At that point you make a 45' inside cut and
then cope the fine line between end and face grain.

Other tools- A Rasp or rotary grinder can be helpful. Always cut your
cope with as high of an opposite angle as possible to remove the
"back" of the cut.
Hint- you might be surprised to find how much of the "back" you need
to remove to get the moldings to fit snugly together.

It seems impossible until you get the nack. I cut copes as tight as a
drum on big crown and can do so fairly quickly and
smoothly.....but...it was not always this way... It took years to
learn.

And remember, copes are far more immune to the small movements of most
structures. Houses and buildings move around some and cutting compound
mitres can result in the joints opening up much more than properly
coped joints.

Good Luck,
J

All of the above assumes the walls meet at a perfect 90 degrees, which
is rare. In my experience, the drywall finishers put lots of joint
compound in the corners so they end up a bit obtuse from a perfect 90
degrees. A deviation of just a degree or two will show on a coped
joint. Either measure the corner with an angle finder or cut a couple
of small pieces 6" or so long to make a test miter joint for the corner
and adjust the miter angle to make a good fit.

Regards,
John.

wrote:
Anyone seen any tools to help cope crown? Rockler has a plastic
device to help keep a jig saw at right angle and still sit on
something. Doesn't look like it would help much.....

Highland Hardware sells a coping foot that relaces the flat base of a
jig saw with a rounded piece. Looks like it would work good but
probably has a huge learning curve.

I'm only doing a single room and don't need a Copemaster or anything
that will take the entrie room's worth of molding to practice on.

TIA

http://www.collinstool.com/base.php?...oping_foot.htm

What if a normal wall/ceiling wraps around a corner and joins to a cathedral
ceiling wall and then goes to an inside corner of that cathedral ceiling
wall?

Cathedral ceiling wall would have top of crown at its pitch and then when
getting to the corner you have join to that pitch with a regular 90 degree
except that your run is the pitch of the ceiling.

Does all that make sense? It's a breakfast nook with regular ceiling
abutting a cathedral ceiling room.
TomNie

wrote in message
...
Anyone seen any tools to help cope crown? Rockler has a plastic

"Tom Nie" wrote in message
...
What if a normal wall/ceiling wraps around a corner and joins to a
cathedral ceiling wall and then goes to an inside corner of that cathedral
ceiling wall?

Cathedral ceiling wall would have top of crown at its pitch and then when
getting to the corner you have join to that pitch with a regular 90 degree
except that your run is the pitch of the ceiling.

Does all that make sense? It's a breakfast nook with regular ceiling
abutting a cathedral ceiling room.
TomNie

wrote in message
...
Anyone seen any tools to help cope crown? Rockler has a plastic

You've gone beyond -- far beyond -- the initial request which was for
a first-timer to tackle what was basically a simple rectangle in one room.

I will say that, for what you describe, if the "math" gets too complex
(turning one of the corners you describe takes more than just two
pieces), consider a "pinch block." Visualize a rectangular block of
wood in the corner, angled on the top to fit flush to the ceiling and
wide enough on the vertical sides so that the crown can butt against
it.

One piece of crown would dead end into the block with a square cut.
The other piece requires a SIMPLE angle cut, not a compound miter.

Now make the rectangular block "fancy" if you wish.

Jim Stuyck

Thanks, Jim,

I'd seen something like that done at a Homearama and was one of my options.
Didn't know its "name".

TomNie

"Jim Stuyck" wrote in message
. ..



"Tom Nie" wrote in message
...
What if a normal wall/ceiling wraps around a corner and joins to a
cathedral ceiling wall and then goes to an inside corner of that
cathedral ceiling wall?

Cathedral ceiling wall would have top of crown at its pitch and then when
getting to the corner you have join to that pitch with a regular 90
degree except that your run is the pitch of the ceiling.

Does all that make sense? It's a breakfast nook with regular ceiling
abutting a cathedral ceiling room.
TomNie

wrote in message
...
Anyone seen any tools to help cope crown? Rockler has a plastic

You've gone beyond -- far beyond -- the initial request which was for
a first-timer to tackle what was basically a simple rectangle in one room.

I will say that, for what you describe, if the "math" gets too complex
(turning one of the corners you describe takes more than just two
pieces), consider a "pinch block." Visualize a rectangular block of
wood in the corner, angled on the top to fit flush to the ceiling and
wide enough on the vertical sides so that the crown can butt against
it.

One piece of crown would dead end into the block with a square cut.
The other piece requires a SIMPLE angle cut, not a compound miter.

Now make the rectangular block "fancy" if you wish.

Jim Stuyck

On 7 Aug 2006 11:51:26 -0700, "the_tool_man"
wrote:

All of the above assumes the walls meet at a perfect 90 degrees, which
is rare. In my experience, the drywall finishers put lots of joint
compound in the corners so they end up a bit obtuse from a perfect 90
degrees. A deviation of just a degree or two will show on a coped
joint. Either measure the corner with an angle finder or cut a couple
of small pieces 6" or so long to make a test miter joint for the corner
and adjust the miter angle to make a good fit.

Regards,
John.
Not correct - Coping will immunize against deviations far more than
cutting compound angles.

On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:39:03 -0400, "Tom Nie"
wrote:

What if a normal wall/ceiling wraps around a corner and joins to a cathedral
ceiling wall and then goes to an inside corner of that cathedral ceiling
wall?

Cathedral ceiling wall would have top of crown at its pitch and then when
getting to the corner you have join to that pitch with a regular 90 degree
except that your run is the pitch of the ceiling.

Does all that make sense? It's a breakfast nook with regular ceiling
abutting a cathedral ceiling room.
TomNie

wrote in message
.. .
Anyone seen any tools to help cope crown? Rockler has a plastic

Tom - Probably cannot be done cleanly.
Sound similar to running Crown down the rake of say a 12 pitch roof
and then trying to join it with the level Crown that goes along the
Fascia. The angle canot be split properly because the length of the
Crown on the angle is longer than the length of the angle of the crown
on the level.

Joe, you're right - it's that simple.

Guess it explains the pinch block solution. Thanks guys.

TomNie

"Joe Bemier" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:39:03 -0400, "Tom Nie"
wrote:

What if a normal wall/ceiling wraps around a corner and joins to a
cathedral
ceiling wall and then goes to an inside corner of that cathedral ceiling
wall?

Cathedral ceiling wall would have top of crown at its pitch and then when
getting to the corner you have join to that pitch with a regular 90 degree
except that your run is the pitch of the ceiling.

Does all that make sense? It's a breakfast nook with regular ceiling
abutting a cathedral ceiling room.
TomNie

wrote in message
. ..
Anyone seen any tools to help cope crown? Rockler has a plastic

Tom - Probably cannot be done cleanly.
Sound similar to running Crown down the rake of say a 12 pitch roof
and then trying to join it with the level Crown that goes along the
Fascia. The angle canot be split properly because the length of the
Crown on the angle is longer than the length of the angle of the crown
on the level.

Joe Bemier wrote:
Not correct - Coping will immunize against deviations far more than
cutting compound angles.

While it's true that a coped joint will hide deviations better than a
mitered one, either will reveal errors as small as 1-2 degrees - which
is why I wanted to point out to the OP that he should check the corner
angles before coping. I did not advocate using miters for the final
installation - only using mitered test pieces to measure the corner
angle. It is precisely because of the miter's sensitivity to corner
angle, and its relative ease of cutting, that I recommended making the
test pieces in the first place.

Tom Nie wrote:
What if a normal wall/ceiling wraps around a corner and joins to a cathedral
ceiling wall and then goes to an inside corner of that cathedral ceiling
wall?

Cathedral ceiling wall would have top of crown at its pitch and then when
getting to the corner you have join to that pitch with a regular 90 degree
except that your run is the pitch of the ceiling.

Does all that make sense? It's a breakfast nook with regular ceiling
abutting a cathedral ceiling room.
TomNie

wrote in message
...
Anyone seen any tools to help cope crown? Rockler has a plastic

Hi Tom:

You can run crown molding around a corner like this, but you have to
either use a plinth block (never herd it called a pinch block) as
others have suggested, or do the following:

Run the crown down the side wall (the wall with a level top edge
against the sloped cathedral ceiling) and butt it into the gable wall
(the wall with the sloped top edge). The next piece of crown is coped
into the first as though the ceiling were level. This piece is also
cut with an outside miter in the vertical plane. The third piece is
mitered into the second, running vertically, and mitered against the
fourth and last piece, which runs along the gable wall - ceiling edge.
The second and third pieces end up being triangular. This is hard to
visualize without pictures, but I don't have any. Just imagine the
crown running out from the side wall level along the gable end wall,
then turning vertically up the gable end wall, then turning at the
ceiling angle.

I have found that for steep ceilings (above 8/12 or so), the crown run
along the side wall looks better if you place a small triangular piece
of molding above the crown that can fit tightly against the ceiling and
eliminate the gap where the top edge of the crown would meet the
ceiling. For 12/12 ceilings, I use 3/4" cove molding with the cove
against the ceiling. This makes a tiny soffit of sorts, that visually
anchors the crown to the sloped ceiling surface and makes the preceding
corner treatment work a little better.

Plinth blocks are much easier, but I thought you'd like an alternative.

Regards,
John.

wrote in message
...
Anyone seen any tools to help cope crown? Rockler has a plastic

Hi Tom:

You can run crown molding around a corner like this, but you have to
either use a plinth block (never herd it called a pinch block) as
others have suggested, or do the following:

My understanding is that a PLINTH block is used at the base (floor)
for base molding and the bottom of door casing. A PINCH block
is used for the crown (ceiling). I thought I was wrong, once, but
it turns out I was mistaken. ;-)

Actually, "googling" on "pinch block" shows examples of use at
the ceiling, and on "plinth block" you see examples of use at the
floor.

Jim Stuyck

On 8 Aug 2006 05:05:08 -0700, "the_tool_man"
wrote:


Joe Bemier wrote:
Not correct - Coping will immunize against deviations far more than
cutting compound angles.

While it's true that a coped joint will hide deviations better than a
mitered one, either will reveal errors as small as 1-2 degrees - which
is why I wanted to point out to the OP that he should check the corner
angles before coping. I did not advocate using miters for the final
installation - only using mitered test pieces to measure the corner
angle. It is precisely because of the miter's sensitivity to corner
angle, and its relative ease of cutting, that I recommended making the
test pieces in the first place.

Well, I don't find that.

Test it.

Cope out a 45 and lay them on a table in the position that they would
sit on a wall.
Swing either piece back and forth - either way and you will have to go
more than a few degrees before you see a significant opening.

I make test pieces for some mitres, but not copes.

Cheers anyway,
J

Jim Stuyck wrote:

My understanding is that a PLINTH block is used at the base (floor)
for base molding and the bottom of door casing. A PINCH block
is used for the crown (ceiling). I thought I was wrong, once, but
it turns out I was mistaken. ;-)

Actually, "googling" on "pinch block" shows examples of use at
the ceiling, and on "plinth block" you see examples of use at the
floor.

Jim Stuyck

Ahh. Thanks for the clarification. Learn something new every day.

Thanks Jim!