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#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
Forget the dust collector the drill press is the villain here. To day while
drilling a 8" deep 1" hole with a spade bit at high speed in oak, I had an explosion. I was about 3 1/2" deep into the hole when with a loud bang and what appeared to be a flash, dust went all over the shop. Blinded by a layer of sawdust covering my glasses and with the taste of burned oak (maybe from oak dust landing in my pipe) I groped for the off switch to the drill press. In shock I looked at my wood, which was hanging from the drill bit and it looked fine with out my glasses on, looked fine after I cleaned my glasses and set down for a minute too. Found some ash and smell of "smoke" in the hole I was drilling so it must have been a real dust explosion. So dust explosions do happen but maybe not in dust collectors. |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
sweetsawdust (in ) said:
| Forget the dust collector the drill press is the villain here. To | day while drilling a 8" deep 1" hole with a spade bit at high | speed in oak, I had an explosion. I was about 3 1/2" deep into the | hole when with a loud bang and what appeared to be a flash, dust | went all over the shop. Blinded by a layer of sawdust covering my | glasses and with the taste of burned oak (maybe from oak dust | landing in my pipe) I groped for the off switch to the drill press. | In shock I looked at my wood, which was hanging from the drill bit | and it looked fine with out my glasses on, looked fine after I | cleaned my glasses and set down for a minute too. Found some ash | and smell of "smoke" in the hole I was drilling so it must have | been a real dust explosion. So dust explosions do happen but maybe | not in dust collectors. I dunno - might wanna load your pipe with something more stable... :-) -- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:50:58 -0500, "Morris Dovey"
wrote: sweetsawdust (in ) said: | Forget the dust collector the drill press is the villain here. To | day while drilling a 8" deep 1" hole with a spade bit at high | speed in oak, I had an explosion. I was about 3 1/2" deep into the | hole when with a loud bang and what appeared to be a flash, dust | went all over the shop. Blinded by a layer of sawdust covering my | glasses and with the taste of burned oak (maybe from oak dust | landing in my pipe) I groped for the off switch to the drill press. | In shock I looked at my wood, which was hanging from the drill bit | and it looked fine with out my glasses on, looked fine after I | cleaned my glasses and set down for a minute too. Found some ash | and smell of "smoke" in the hole I was drilling so it must have | been a real dust explosion. So dust explosions do happen but maybe | not in dust collectors. I dunno - might wanna load your pipe with something more stable... :-) Ha!...lol |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
Nothing to do with your explosion but rather your pipe. My niece wanted to make something with her uncle one day and we went out to the shop. After deciding she wanted to make a nameplate for her dad's desk we got to work with the scroll saw. Unbenounced to me while I was doing some of the more difficult cuts for her she was scooping small pinches of white oak sawdust into my Savanelli. Man did that ever taste bad ewwww. She got a good giggle out of it though so I guess it was worth it.
Puff "sweetsawdust" wrote in message ... Forget the dust collector the drill press is the villain here. To day while drilling a 8" deep 1" hole with a spade bit at high speed in oak, I had an explosion. I was about 3 1/2" deep into the hole when with a loud bang and what appeared to be a flash, dust went all over the shop. Blinded by a layer of sawdust covering my glasses and with the taste of burned oak (maybe from oak dust landing in my pipe) I groped for the off switch to the drill press. In shock I looked at my wood, which was hanging from the drill bit and it looked fine with out my glasses on, looked fine after I cleaned my glasses and set down for a minute too. Found some ash and smell of "smoke" in the hole I was drilling so it must have been a real dust explosion. So dust explosions do happen but maybe not in dust collectors. |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
Seems you have proven that if you try hard enough to do it wrong, something
bad will happen. "sweetsawdust" wrote in message ... Forget the dust collector the drill press is the villain here. To day while drilling a 8" deep 1" hole with a spade bit at high speed in oak, I had an explosion. I was about 3 1/2" deep into the hole when with a loud bang and what appeared to be a flash, dust went all over the shop. Blinded by a layer of sawdust covering my glasses and with the taste of burned oak (maybe from oak dust landing in my pipe) I groped for the off switch to the drill press. In shock I looked at my wood, which was hanging from the drill bit and it looked fine with out my glasses on, looked fine after I cleaned my glasses and set down for a minute too. Found some ash and smell of "smoke" in the hole I was drilling so it must have been a real dust explosion. So dust explosions do happen but maybe not in dust collectors. |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
"sweetsawdust" Forget the dust collector the drill press is the villain here. To day while drilling a 8" deep 1" hole with a spade bit at high speed in oak, I had an explosion. snip The smoke and screeching that proceeded it would have given most of us a clue bad things were about to happen. Dave Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
No dust, No screeching, Everything was going smoothly with no problems and
then BANG it happened. I have performed this operation several times with no problems. This time was a bit different and exciting. "Teamcasa" wrote in message ... "sweetsawdust" Forget the dust collector the drill press is the villain here. To day while drilling a 8" deep 1" hole with a spade bit at high speed in oak, I had an explosion. snip The smoke and screeching that proceeded it would have given most of us a clue bad things were about to happen. Dave Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
And how did I do it "wrong" If you have a better way please enlighten me.
Speed may have been a little high but not that much for the cut in end grain, clamping was tight etc.. "CW" wrote in message news Seems you have proven that if you try hard enough to do it wrong, something bad will happen. "sweetsawdust" wrote in message ... Forget the dust collector the drill press is the villain here. To day while drilling a 8" deep 1" hole with a spade bit at high speed in oak, I had an explosion. I was about 3 1/2" deep into the hole when with a loud bang and what appeared to be a flash, dust went all over the shop. Blinded by a layer of sawdust covering my glasses and with the taste of burned oak (maybe from oak dust landing in my pipe) I groped for the off switch to the drill press. In shock I looked at my wood, which was hanging from the drill bit and it looked fine with out my glasses on, looked fine after I cleaned my glasses and set down for a minute too. Found some ash and smell of "smoke" in the hole I was drilling so it must have been a real dust explosion. So dust explosions do happen but maybe not in dust collectors. |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
If the temperature was high enough to cause ignition, speed was more than
just a little high. "sweetsawdust" wrote in message .. . And how did I do it "wrong" If you have a better way please enlighten me. Speed may have been a little high but not that much for the cut in end grain, clamping was tight etc.. |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:28:25 -0500, "sweetsawdust"
wrote: No dust, No screeching, Everything was going smoothly with no problems and then BANG it happened. I have performed this operation several times with no problems. This time was a bit different and exciting. Is it possible there was something inside the wood you were drilling? Some piece of metal or something else that, not so much causing an explosion, but something that caught and caused a "kickback" so to speak? I know you indicate you smelled smoke and charring, but that is sometimes normal with high speeds and/or dull bits in hard woods. "Teamcasa" wrote in message ... "sweetsawdust" Forget the dust collector the drill press is the villain here. To day while drilling a 8" deep 1" hole with a spade bit at high speed in oak, I had an explosion. snip The smoke and screeching that proceeded it would have given most of us a clue bad things were about to happen. Dave Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
The Mark & Juanita entity posted thusly:
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:28:25 -0500, "sweetsawdust" wrote: No dust, No screeching, Everything was going smoothly with no problems and then BANG it happened. I have performed this operation several times with no problems. This time was a bit different and exciting. Is it possible there was something inside the wood you were drilling? Some piece of metal or something else that, not so much causing an explosion, but something that caught and caused a "kickback" so to speak? I know you indicate you smelled smoke and charring, but that is sometimes normal with high speeds and/or dull bits in hard woods. Something in the wood could also cause a spark. I used to see occasional sparks from calcium inclusions when cutting teak. No idea if oak can have the same, though. |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
"sweetsawdust" wrote in
: Forget the dust collector the drill press is the villain here. To day while drilling a 8" deep 1" hole with a spade bit at high speed in oak, I had an explosion. I was about 3 1/2" deep into the hole when with a loud bang and what appeared to be a flash, dust went all over the shop. Blinded by a layer of sawdust covering my glasses and with the taste of burned oak (maybe from oak dust landing in my pipe) I groped for the off switch to the drill press. In shock I looked at my wood, which was hanging from the drill bit and it looked fine with out my glasses on, looked fine after I cleaned my glasses and set down for a minute too. Found some ash and smell of "smoke" in the hole I was drilling so it must have been a real dust explosion. So dust explosions do happen but maybe not in dust collectors. I think that your spade bit was spinning a bit too fast. Have you considered a forstner bit? |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
Oleg Lego wrote: The Mark & Juanita entity posted thusly: On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:28:25 -0500, "sweetsawdust" wrote: No dust, No screeching, Everything was going smoothly with no problems and then BANG it happened. I have performed this operation several times with no problems. This time was a bit different and exciting. Is it possible there was something inside the wood you were drilling? Some piece of metal or something else that, not so much causing an explosion, but something that caught and caused a "kickback" so to speak? I know you indicate you smelled smoke and charring, but that is sometimes normal with high speeds and/or dull bits in hard woods. Something in the wood could also cause a spark. I used to see occasional sparks from calcium inclusions when cutting teak. No idea if oak can have the same, though. Wood can grow around just about anything, including small stones, grains of sand and so on. I have to wonder if there wasn't something like a blasing cap (OK, that would be too big but something like that) in the wood. A dust explosion will not leave charred wood in the hole. Here's a really wild hypothesis: Concentrated NItric acid reacts with celluose to make an explosive (guncotton). If somebody splashed a little nitric acid on the tree many years ago then there might have been a little explosive spot in the wood. I wonder, if you spilled ammonium nitrate fertilizer on a tree, could it form an inclusion that would go bang fifty years later? If you didn;t have a posting history, or this was April, I wouldn't believe the story. -- |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
Have tried fostner bits several times and on shorter holes they work but
build up to much heat. I have had charring in the holes when using fostner bits even at low speeds, not often but a few times. With a hole of this length (8") I have to make several passes or drill from both ends and the fostner bits do not give as smooth of a shaft as the spade bits for this. Main problem with the fostner bits is heat build up at depth which I seem to have gotten anyway in this case. "R. Pierce Butler" wrote in message . 1... "sweetsawdust" wrote in : Forget the dust collector the drill press is the villain here. To day while drilling a 8" deep 1" hole with a spade bit at high speed in oak, I had an explosion. I was about 3 1/2" deep into the hole when with a loud bang and what appeared to be a flash, dust went all over the shop. Blinded by a layer of sawdust covering my glasses and with the taste of burned oak (maybe from oak dust landing in my pipe) I groped for the off switch to the drill press. In shock I looked at my wood, which was hanging from the drill bit and it looked fine with out my glasses on, looked fine after I cleaned my glasses and set down for a minute too. Found some ash and smell of "smoke" in the hole I was drilling so it must have been a real dust explosion. So dust explosions do happen but maybe not in dust collectors. I think that your spade bit was spinning a bit too fast. Have you considered a forstner bit? |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
Speed was a little fast but I was not getting any heat build up or charring on the other holes I had drilled. The bit was cool enough to hold with out doing more then causing discomfort after drilling and had time to cool (about 15 min) between holes. "CW" wrote in message ink.net... If the temperature was high enough to cause ignition, speed was more than just a little high. "sweetsawdust" wrote in message .. . And how did I do it "wrong" If you have a better way please enlighten me. Speed may have been a little high but not that much for the cut in end grain, clamping was tight etc.. |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
My own opinion is that the bit may have gotten dull, I had drilled several
holes with it since I last sharpened it. This could account for the slight charring I found in the hole, but not enough to cause a fire ( no glowing embers or any thing, just a dark "stain" on the wood) or maybe a foreign object in the wood. What ever the cause was it was a first time in nearly 40+ years of playing with wood that I have ever had anything like this happen. I have had steam explosions from using a dull bit at too high of a speed and have brought up glowing embers from the same cause, but this was a first. Just one of those odd events that was worth a passing on for amusement and pondering. I will now go back to making a living drilling ( hopefully none exploding ) holes in wood. For what it's worth I did have a live bee come out of a hole in a board I was cutting the other day, but that is another story. wrote in message oups.com... Oleg Lego wrote: The Mark & Juanita entity posted thusly: On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:28:25 -0500, "sweetsawdust" wrote: No dust, No screeching, Everything was going smoothly with no problems and then BANG it happened. I have performed this operation several times with no problems. This time was a bit different and exciting. Is it possible there was something inside the wood you were drilling? Some piece of metal or something else that, not so much causing an explosion, but something that caught and caused a "kickback" so to speak? I know you indicate you smelled smoke and charring, but that is sometimes normal with high speeds and/or dull bits in hard woods. Something in the wood could also cause a spark. I used to see occasional sparks from calcium inclusions when cutting teak. No idea if oak can have the same, though. Wood can grow around just about anything, including small stones, grains of sand and so on. I have to wonder if there wasn't something like a blasing cap (OK, that would be too big but something like that) in the wood. A dust explosion will not leave charred wood in the hole. Here's a really wild hypothesis: Concentrated NItric acid reacts with celluose to make an explosive (guncotton). If somebody splashed a little nitric acid on the tree many years ago then there might have been a little explosive spot in the wood. I wonder, if you spilled ammonium nitrate fertilizer on a tree, could it form an inclusion that would go bang fifty years later? If you didn;t have a posting history, or this was April, I wouldn't believe the story. -- |
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
I remember drilling in oak with a forstner bit. Wow did it get hot. I
had to really slow down or it woulda caught fire. Smelt bad to. sweetsawdust wrote: Forget the dust collector the drill press is the villain here. To day while drilling a 8" deep 1" hole with a spade bit at high speed in oak, I had an explosion. I was about 3 1/2" deep into the hole when with a loud bang and what appeared to be a flash, dust went all over the shop. Blinded by a layer of sawdust covering my glasses and with the taste of burned oak (maybe from oak dust landing in my pipe) I groped for the off switch to the drill press. In shock I looked at my wood, which was hanging from the drill bit and it looked fine with out my glasses on, looked fine after I cleaned my glasses and set down for a minute too. Found some ash and smell of "smoke" in the hole I was drilling so it must have been a real dust explosion. So dust explosions do happen but maybe not in dust collectors. |
#18
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Dust explosion
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#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
Tex wrote: In article .com, says... Oleg Lego wrote: The Mark & Juanita entity posted thusly: On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:28:25 -0500, "sweetsawdust" wrote: ... snipped Here's a really wild hypothesis: Concentrated NItric acid reacts with celluose to make an explosive (guncotton). If somebody splashed a little nitric acid on the tree many years ago then there might have been a little explosive spot in the wood. I wonder, if you spilled ammonium nitrate fertilizer on a tree, could it form an inclusion that would go bang fifty years later? If you didn;t have a posting history, or this was April, I wouldn't believe the story. VERY WILD, indeed! a) HNO3 (nitric acid) would kill any live tree tissue it stayed in contact with for any significant amount of time Sure, but most of the wood in a living tree IS dead tissue. Only the outermost layers are alive. A 'dead' spot on the bark will get encapsolated if it is not too big. If you splash a little nitric acid on the bark and convert a little of the bark to nitrocelluose that little spot will get incorporated int othe wood as the tree grows. I'm suggesting just a tiny spot, not the whole trunk. b) NH4NO3 (ammonium nitrate) is not an explosive -- it is an oxidant. Depends on the conditions. Google Texas City Texas harbor explosion. When combined with a fuel source (usually hydrocarbons of some sort) the mixture can be explosive under proper conditions. Is what you're suggesting that someone bored a hole in a tree, inserted a quantity of ammonium nitrate, had it encapsulated by the wood tissue rather than dissolve in the sap and kill the tree, and years later supply the oxidant for a dust explosion? No, I'm suggesting that it go onto the bark and was encapsolated into the tree the same way a stone or nail gets encapsulated, and over the years converted some of the celluose to nitrocelluose. -- FF |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
In article , "sweetsawdust" wrote:
And how did I do it "wrong" You mean, besides smoking in a woodshop? -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
#21
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:32:34 -0500, "sweetsawdust"
wrote: And how did I do it "wrong" Does this answer your question? 8" deep 1" hole with a spade bit at high speed in oak, Could you drill that by hand? No. How much power is behind your drill press ? Few hundred watts? Now assume it's 90% efficient (it isn't) and half of that waste is going into heat. So that's the heat output of a reasonable size soldering iron, sat in a closed-in hole full of flammable sawdust. What do you think is going to happen next? |
#22
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
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#23
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
"sweetsawdust" wrote in message ... Forget the dust collector the drill press is the villain here. To day while drilling a 8" deep 1" hole with a spade bit at high speed in oak, I had an explosion. I was about 3 1/2" deep into the hole when with a loud bang and what appeared to be a flash, dust went all over the shop. Blinded by a layer of sawdust covering my glasses and with the taste of burned oak (maybe from oak dust landing in my pipe) I groped for the off switch to the drill press. In shock I looked at my wood, which was hanging from the drill bit and it looked fine with out my glasses on, looked fine after I cleaned my glasses and set down for a minute too. Found some ash and smell of "smoke" in the hole I was drilling so it must have been a real dust explosion. So dust explosions do happen but maybe not in dust collectors. Ok, this really happened to me. I was drilling a blank for a pen into some slightly green hardwood (I don't remember what, something tropical) and about 3/4 of the way through, the wood exploded. I mean BOOM! Splinters everywhere. If it weren't for the steam coming off the drillbit I never would have guessed that the moisture in the wood would flash to steam and blow up the workpeice. Andy |
#24
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
I have had similar things happen in wood that "I thought" was dry, but
always in deep holes (3' or more) with twist bits under 3/8" in dia Just a popping sound and a spray of dust and steam. Never had one come apart but then I use larger blanks of wood then you would use for a pen. This time it was a spade bit and left ash. on my shirt and glasses. This could have been a steam explosion,but it was a weird one if it was. Wood might have shattered if it had been a twist bit?! 8( It does make you want to stop working for a minute though and ponder life, doesn't it. I wonder how many other strange and secret events happen in wood shops that you never hear about? It's all part of the fun of working with a living material. "Andy" wrote in message ... "sweetsawdust" wrote in message ... Forget the dust collector the drill press is the villain here. To day while drilling a 8" deep 1" hole with a spade bit at high speed in oak, I had an explosion. I was about 3 1/2" deep into the hole when with a loud bang and what appeared to be a flash, dust went all over the shop. Blinded by a layer of sawdust covering my glasses and with the taste of burned oak (maybe from oak dust landing in my pipe) I groped for the off switch to the drill press. In shock I looked at my wood, which was hanging from the drill bit and it looked fine with out my glasses on, looked fine after I cleaned my glasses and set down for a minute too. Found some ash and smell of "smoke" in the hole I was drilling so it must have been a real dust explosion. So dust explosions do happen but maybe not in dust collectors. Ok, this really happened to me. I was drilling a blank for a pen into some slightly green hardwood (I don't remember what, something tropical) and about 3/4 of the way through, the wood exploded. I mean BOOM! Splinters everywhere. If it weren't for the steam coming off the drillbit I never would have guessed that the moisture in the wood would flash to steam and blow up the workpeice. Andy |
#25
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dust explosion
"sweetsawdust" wrote in message . .. I have had similar things happen in wood that "I thought" was dry, but always in deep holes (3' or more) with twist bits under 3/8" in dia Just a popping sound and a spray of dust and steam. Never had one come apart but then I use larger blanks of wood then you would use for a pen. This time it was a spade bit and left ash. on my shirt and glasses. This could have been a steam explosion,but it was a weird one if it was. Wood might have shattered if it had been a twist bit?! 8( Why are you using a spade bit on such a deep hole? An auger bit will clear the cut wood from the hole and keep things cool. . . BB It does make you want to stop working for a minute though and ponder life, doesn't it. I wonder how many other strange and secret events happen in wood shops that you never hear about? It's all part of the fun of working with a living material. "Andy" wrote in message ... "sweetsawdust" wrote in message ... Forget the dust collector the drill press is the villain here. To day while drilling a 8" deep 1" hole with a spade bit at high speed in oak, I had an explosion. I was about 3 1/2" deep into the hole when with a loud bang and what appeared to be a flash, dust went all over the shop. Blinded by a layer of sawdust covering my glasses and with the taste of burned oak (maybe from oak dust landing in my pipe) I groped for the off switch to the drill press. In shock I looked at my wood, which was hanging from the drill bit and it looked fine with out my glasses on, looked fine after I cleaned my glasses and set down for a minute too. Found some ash and smell of "smoke" in the hole I was drilling so it must have been a real dust explosion. So dust explosions do happen but maybe not in dust collectors. Ok, this really happened to me. I was drilling a blank for a pen into some slightly green hardwood (I don't remember what, something tropical) and about 3/4 of the way through, the wood exploded. I mean BOOM! Splinters everywhere. If it weren't for the steam coming off the drillbit I never would have guessed that the moisture in the wood would flash to steam and blow up the workpeice. Andy |
#26
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Dust explosion
Doug Miller wrote: In article , "sweetsawdust" wrote: And how did I do it "wrong" You mean, besides smoking in a woodshop? If a woodworker speaks in a forest, and there's nobody there to hear him........will Doug Miller still correct him? |
#27
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Dust explosion
"BB" wrote in message news:z9rxg.5225$fL3.3439@trnddc07... Why are you using a spade bit on such a deep hole? An auger bit will clear the cut wood from the hole and keep things cool. . . BB I don't know. I never thought of doing it is the only reason I can give. I have a good set of auger bits and a good brace setting on the wall collecting dust. Tomorrow I will get them out dust them off and give them a try. I will be cutting in end grain but they should do the job and be cleaner then the spade bit to boot. Thanks for the tip. |
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