Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.antiques,rec.woodworking
Dan-the-K
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with sticky surfaces

For practice, I'm finishing a piece of furniture that isn't too
important. It is a fish tank stand.

I did fine with the top surface, fixing it up and using MinWax
pre-stain Wood conditioner, red oak Wood Finish Stain and Fast Drying
Polyurethane. That's part 1.

I'm now working on the bottom. This is part 2. No fixing up because
its the bottom; I went straight to 2 layers of Wood Finish Stain, sand,
and then I applied 1 layer of Polyurethane. The next step was to sand
it a little with 340 grade paper. I did that yesterday. After that
sanding, all the surfaces I had worked on are sticky and I don't know
what to do.

I think the stickiness is due to getting mineral spirits on the wood.
I did that twice. First, I lubricated the sandpaper with mineral
spirits. Second, I spilled some paint thinner on my tack cloth. When
I used the tack cloth, it left a wet surface behind.

Is tacky the same as sticky?

Any ideas on what to do? My game plan is to wait. Its still sticky, a
day later.

TIA,

Dan

  #2   Report Post  
Posted to rec.antiques,rec.woodworking
Woodhead
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with sticky surfaces

Yuck!

Question:

How long did the stain dry before the Poly?

Someone will know what contaminants were picked up from the tack cloth.

Jim
"Dan-the-K" wrote in message
ups.com...
For practice, I'm finishing a piece of furniture that isn't too
important. It is a fish tank stand.

I did fine with the top surface, fixing it up and using MinWax
pre-stain Wood conditioner, red oak Wood Finish Stain and Fast Drying
Polyurethane. That's part 1.

I'm now working on the bottom. This is part 2. No fixing up because
its the bottom; I went straight to 2 layers of Wood Finish Stain, sand,
and then I applied 1 layer of Polyurethane. The next step was to sand
it a little with 340 grade paper. I did that yesterday. After that
sanding, all the surfaces I had worked on are sticky and I don't know
what to do.

I think the stickiness is due to getting mineral spirits on the wood.
I did that twice. First, I lubricated the sandpaper with mineral
spirits. Second, I spilled some paint thinner on my tack cloth. When
I used the tack cloth, it left a wet surface behind.

Is tacky the same as sticky?

Any ideas on what to do? My game plan is to wait. Its still sticky, a
day later.

TIA,

Dan



  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.antiques,rec.woodworking
Dan-the-K
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with sticky surfaces


Woodhead wrote:
Yuck!

Question:

How long did the stain dry before the Poly?


Over a day. It was dry and nonsticky.


Someone will know what contaminants were picked up from the tack cloth.


Every store in my neck of the woods sells the same tack cloth, for 75
cents. Its cheesecloth. If its made as the books say, it would have
mineral spirits and varnish.


Jim
"Dan-the-K" wrote in message
ups.com...
For practice, I'm finishing a piece of furniture that isn't too
important. It is a fish tank stand.

I did fine with the top surface, fixing it up and using MinWax
pre-stain Wood conditioner, red oak Wood Finish Stain and Fast Drying
Polyurethane. That's part 1.

I'm now working on the bottom. This is part 2. No fixing up because
its the bottom; I went straight to 2 layers of Wood Finish Stain, sand,
and then I applied 1 layer of Polyurethane. The next step was to sand
it a little with 340 grade paper. I did that yesterday. After that
sanding, all the surfaces I had worked on are sticky and I don't know
what to do.

I think the stickiness is due to getting mineral spirits on the wood.
I did that twice. First, I lubricated the sandpaper with mineral
spirits. Second, I spilled some paint thinner on my tack cloth. When
I used the tack cloth, it left a wet surface behind.

Is tacky the same as sticky?

Any ideas on what to do? My game plan is to wait. Its still sticky, a
day later.

TIA,

Dan


I think a light application of dry steel wool might solve the problem.
I used some dry 320 grit paper earlier on one spot and think that
helped a little bit.

Dan

  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.antiques,rec.woodworking
mike wilcox
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with sticky surfaces

Dan-the-K wrote:

Woodhead wrote:

Yuck!

Question:

How long did the stain dry before the Poly?



Over a day. It was dry and nonsticky.


Someone will know what contaminants were picked up from the tack cloth.



Every store in my neck of the woods sells the same tack cloth, for 75
cents. Its cheesecloth. If its made as the books say, it would have
mineral spirits and varnish.


Jim
"Dan-the-K" wrote in message
roups.com...

For practice, I'm finishing a piece of furniture that isn't too
important. It is a fish tank stand.

I did fine with the top surface, fixing it up and using MinWax
pre-stain Wood conditioner, red oak Wood Finish Stain and Fast Drying
Polyurethane. That's part 1.

I'm now working on the bottom. This is part 2. No fixing up because
its the bottom; I went straight to 2 layers of Wood Finish Stain, sand,
and then I applied 1 layer of Polyurethane. The next step was to sand
it a little with 340 grade paper. I did that yesterday. After that
sanding, all the surfaces I had worked on are sticky and I don't know
what to do.

I think the stickiness is due to getting mineral spirits on the wood.
I did that twice. First, I lubricated the sandpaper with mineral
spirits. Second, I spilled some paint thinner on my tack cloth. When
I used the tack cloth, it left a wet surface behind.

Is tacky the same as sticky?

Any ideas on what to do? My game plan is to wait. Its still sticky, a
day later.

TIA,

Dan



I think a light application of dry steel wool might solve the problem.
I used some dry 320 grit paper earlier on one spot and think that
helped a little bit.

Dan


With stain it's important not to leave any sitting on the surface, the
big mistake people make is not wiping it all off or not letting it dry
24 hours. I never use a tack cloth, just vacuum up the dust or wipe
lightly with a rag and paint thinner.

Poly can be a problem if the stuff is old or applied too thick, it
should thinned 8 to 1 and allowed at least 24 hours before sanding, 0000
steel wool works better than sand paper between coats.
  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.antiques,rec.woodworking
henry
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with sticky surfaces

I just put 4 different finishes on 4 different boxes last night. This
morning I was able to put a 2 nd coat on the on box with 1) waterlox,
2) BLO, 3) shellac but the 4th one with oil Poly wasnt dry enough. We
had rain last night and its in a basement which I am sure was part of
the problem.



  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.antiques,rec.woodworking
Dan-the-K
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with sticky surfaces


mike wilcox wrote:
Dan-the-K wrote:

Woodhead wrote:

Yuck!

Question:

How long did the stain dry before the Poly?



Over a day. It was dry and nonsticky.


Someone will know what contaminants were picked up from the tack cloth.



Every store in my neck of the woods sells the same tack cloth, for 75
cents. Its cheesecloth. If its made as the books say, it would have
mineral spirits and varnish.


Jim
"Dan-the-K" wrote in message
roups.com...

For practice, I'm finishing a piece of furniture that isn't too
important. It is a fish tank stand.

I did fine with the top surface, fixing it up and using MinWax
pre-stain Wood conditioner, red oak Wood Finish Stain and Fast Drying
Polyurethane. That's part 1.

I'm now working on the bottom. This is part 2. No fixing up because
its the bottom; I went straight to 2 layers of Wood Finish Stain, sand,
and then I applied 1 layer of Polyurethane. The next step was to sand
it a little with 340 grade paper. I did that yesterday. After that
sanding, all the surfaces I had worked on are sticky and I don't know
what to do.

I think the stickiness is due to getting mineral spirits on the wood.
I did that twice. First, I lubricated the sandpaper with mineral
spirits. Second, I spilled some paint thinner on my tack cloth. When
I used the tack cloth, it left a wet surface behind.

Is tacky the same as sticky?

Any ideas on what to do? My game plan is to wait. Its still sticky, a
day later.

TIA,

Dan



I think a light application of dry steel wool might solve the problem.
I used some dry 320 grit paper earlier on one spot and think that
helped a little bit.

Dan


With stain it's important not to leave any sitting on the surface, the
big mistake people make is not wiping it all off or not letting it dry
24 hours. I never use a tack cloth, just vacuum up the dust or wipe
lightly with a rag and paint thinner.

Poly can be a problem if the stuff is old or applied too thick, it
should thinned 8 to 1 and allowed at least 24 hours before sanding, 0000
steel wool works better than sand paper between coats.



I'm sure I wiped it all off after about 15 minutes and I'm sure I
waited a day, maybe as much as 3 days before I sanded it and applied
the poly. As I said, the wood was in good condition after applying
poly and before I sanded it and cleared it off with a tack cloth.

There are two sections that might have caused a problem, but the
stickiness is everywhere, not just on those two sections. On those two
sections, I applied a second coat of stain but forgot to wipe the
excess off in 15 minutes or less. That stain remained for about a half
hour or hour. More than a day later, I applied another coat of stain
to all horizontal surfaces.

Dan

  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.antiques,rec.woodworking
mike wilcox
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with sticky surfaces

Dan-the-K wrote:

mike wilcox wrote:

Dan-the-K wrote:


Woodhead wrote:


Yuck!

Question:

How long did the stain dry before the Poly?


Over a day. It was dry and nonsticky.



Someone will know what contaminants were picked up from the tack cloth.


Every store in my neck of the woods sells the same tack cloth, for 75
cents. Its cheesecloth. If its made as the books say, it would have
mineral spirits and varnish.



Jim
"Dan-the-K" wrote in message
egroups.com...


For practice, I'm finishing a piece of furniture that isn't too
important. It is a fish tank stand.

I did fine with the top surface, fixing it up and using MinWax
pre-stain Wood conditioner, red oak Wood Finish Stain and Fast Drying
Polyurethane. That's part 1.

I'm now working on the bottom. This is part 2. No fixing up because
its the bottom; I went straight to 2 layers of Wood Finish Stain, sand,
and then I applied 1 layer of Polyurethane. The next step was to sand
it a little with 340 grade paper. I did that yesterday. After that
sanding, all the surfaces I had worked on are sticky and I don't know
what to do.

I think the stickiness is due to getting mineral spirits on the wood.
I did that twice. First, I lubricated the sandpaper with mineral
spirits. Second, I spilled some paint thinner on my tack cloth. When
I used the tack cloth, it left a wet surface behind.

Is tacky the same as sticky?

Any ideas on what to do? My game plan is to wait. Its still sticky, a
day later.

TIA,

Dan



I think a light application of dry steel wool might solve the problem.
I used some dry 320 grit paper earlier on one spot and think that
helped a little bit.

Dan


With stain it's important not to leave any sitting on the surface, the
big mistake people make is not wiping it all off or not letting it dry
24 hours. I never use a tack cloth, just vacuum up the dust or wipe
lightly with a rag and paint thinner.

Poly can be a problem if the stuff is old or applied too thick, it
should thinned 8 to 1 and allowed at least 24 hours before sanding, 0000
steel wool works better than sand paper between coats.




I'm sure I wiped it all off after about 15 minutes and I'm sure I
waited a day, maybe as much as 3 days before I sanded it and applied
the poly. As I said, the wood was in good condition after applying
poly and before I sanded it and cleared it off with a tack cloth.

There are two sections that might have caused a problem, but the
stickiness is everywhere, not just on those two sections. On those two
sections, I applied a second coat of stain but forgot to wipe the
excess off in 15 minutes or less. That stain remained for about a half
hour or hour. More than a day later, I applied another coat of stain
to all horizontal surfaces.

Dan


I've never use more than two coats of stain, it won't color any darker
if you use a third unless you're leaving pigmnet on the surface. If
you're trying to stain a light hardwood like maple a darker shade, use a
dye stain.

In cases of a sticky finish it's generally a case of wax/polish residue.
I'd just strip it all off and start fresh, check for shiny areas and
wipe with paper towel and paint thinner. Look for colored residue on the
towel and wipe with clean towel and thinners until it shows clean, then
follow up with a wipe of lacquer thinner.

Mike Wilcox
  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.antiques,rec.woodworking
Josh
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with sticky surfaces

8 to 1 !!!??? Are you out of your mind? Most off-the-shelf poly
doesn't have to be thinned at all; you CAN thin it if you want, but 8:1
seems pretty crazy. I sometimes thin as much as 2:1 to get better
flow-out when spraying, but I see little advantage to going any further
than that. A blanket statement like poly has to be thinned 8:1 is
misleading to say the least.

Minwax wood stain (and most other pigment stains) uses a varnish binder
and can be built up just like any other finish. For all intents and
purposes, it's basically paint with a very low solids content. You
could paint it on thick like poly and let it build on the surface if
you want. The reason for wiping off all of the excess is that, like
paint, the solids are opaque. Building a thick finish will obscure the
grain - usually not desirable when staining wood. However, there's no
reason other than asthetics and curing time to wipe all of the excess
stain off. Certainly it should not have the impact described in the
OP. This might have been what you were saying with the "or let it dry
24 hours" addendum.




mike wilcox wrote:
Dan-the-K wrote:

Woodhead wrote:

Yuck!

Question:

How long did the stain dry before the Poly?



Over a day. It was dry and nonsticky.


Someone will know what contaminants were picked up from the tack cloth.



Every store in my neck of the woods sells the same tack cloth, for 75
cents. Its cheesecloth. If its made as the books say, it would have
mineral spirits and varnish.


Jim
"Dan-the-K" wrote in message
roups.com...

For practice, I'm finishing a piece of furniture that isn't too
important. It is a fish tank stand.

I did fine with the top surface, fixing it up and using MinWax
pre-stain Wood conditioner, red oak Wood Finish Stain and Fast Drying
Polyurethane. That's part 1.

I'm now working on the bottom. This is part 2. No fixing up because
its the bottom; I went straight to 2 layers of Wood Finish Stain, sand,
and then I applied 1 layer of Polyurethane. The next step was to sand
it a little with 340 grade paper. I did that yesterday. After that
sanding, all the surfaces I had worked on are sticky and I don't know
what to do.

I think the stickiness is due to getting mineral spirits on the wood.
I did that twice. First, I lubricated the sandpaper with mineral
spirits. Second, I spilled some paint thinner on my tack cloth. When
I used the tack cloth, it left a wet surface behind.

Is tacky the same as sticky?

Any ideas on what to do? My game plan is to wait. Its still sticky, a
day later.

TIA,

Dan



I think a light application of dry steel wool might solve the problem.
I used some dry 320 grit paper earlier on one spot and think that
helped a little bit.

Dan


With stain it's important not to leave any sitting on the surface, the
big mistake people make is not wiping it all off or not letting it dry
24 hours. I never use a tack cloth, just vacuum up the dust or wipe
lightly with a rag and paint thinner.

Poly can be a problem if the stuff is old or applied too thick, it
should thinned 8 to 1 and allowed at least 24 hours before sanding, 0000
steel wool works better than sand paper between coats.


  #9   Report Post  
Posted to rec.antiques,rec.woodworking
mike wilcox
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with sticky surfaces

Josh wrote:

8 to 1 !!!??? Are you out of your mind? Most off-the-shelf poly
doesn't have to be thinned at all; you CAN thin it if you want, but 8:1
seems pretty crazy. I sometimes thin as much as 2:1 to get better
flow-out when spraying, but I see little advantage to going any further
than that. A blanket statement like poly has to be thinned 8:1 is
misleading to say the least.


8 parts poly to one part thinners for brush application, you get no
bubbles or brush marks. I've been in the refinishing/restoration
business since the 1960's, if works fine.

Minwax wood stain (and most other pigment stains) uses a varnish binder
and can be built up just like any other finish. For all intents and
purposes, it's basically paint with a very low solids content. You
could paint it on thick like poly and let it build on the surface if
you want. The reason for wiping off all of the excess is that, like
paint, the solids are opaque. Building a thick finish will obscure the
grain - usually not desirable when staining wood. However, there's no
reason other than asthetics and curing time to wipe all of the excess
stain off. Certainly it should not have the impact described in the
OP. This might have been what you were saying with the "or let it dry
24 hours" addendum.


All pigmented stains are meant to be applied and the excess wiped off,
the stain will not dry properly within the dry time on the can if you
lather it on and leave it sitting on the surface. The result is a soft
finish that does not adhere well and is prone to separating from the
surface. If I had a dollar for every muddy refinishing job I've seen in
the last 40 years applied as you describe I'd be a very wealthy man.
Btw. quit top posting if you want any further response.

Mike Wilcox
  #10   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
Tom Banes
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with sticky surfaces

Dan:

A lot of tack cloths are just a hunk of cheesecloth soaked in raw
linseed oil, which takes "forever" to dry (cure if you like). Getting
mineral spirits on the tack cloth diluted the RLO enough to transfer
some to the surface (hence the wet surface you mention).

I'd wipe the surface clean with more mineral spirits, let that dry
(minutes, 1/2 hour?), and I suspect no sticky will be left. If so,
proceed with whatever your planned next step is. You may want to air
out the tack cloth before you use it again - not too much, but a bit
(1/2 hour or so). Or buy a new one.


On 30 May 2006 14:03:06 -0700, "Dan-the-K" wrote:
SNIP
When
I used the tack cloth, it left a wet surface behind.

Is tacky the same as sticky?

Any ideas on what to do? My game plan is to wait. Its still sticky, a
day later.

TIA,

Dan



  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
Dan-the-K
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with sticky surfaces


Tom Banes wrote:
Dan:

A lot of tack cloths are just a hunk of cheesecloth soaked in raw
linseed oil, which takes "forever" to dry (cure if you like). Getting
mineral spirits on the tack cloth diluted the RLO enough to transfer
some to the surface (hence the wet surface you mention).

I'd wipe the surface clean with more mineral spirits, let that dry
(minutes, 1/2 hour?), and I suspect no sticky will be left. If so,
proceed with whatever your planned next step is. You may want to air
out the tack cloth before you use it again - not too much, but a bit
(1/2 hour or so). Or buy a new one.


....
Problem solved! Sprayed on Formby's Build-up Remover, rubbed it with a
cloth; rubbed it off, and its now just like it should be.

I wish I knew what went wrong so I could avoid it in the future. Maybe
it was the tack cloth. Tom, are you saying it was the raw linseed oil
in the tack cloth?

Dan

  #12   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
Tom Banes
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with sticky surfaces

On 31 May 2006 14:23:46 -0700, "Dan-the-K" wrote:
.. Tom, are you saying it was the raw linseed oil
in the tack cloth?

Dan


Dan:

That's my guess, but I've been wrong before (many times). A tack cloth
shouldn't leave a wet or sticky surface after use, so something was
squirrely.

Regards.
  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.antiques,rec.woodworking
Josh
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with sticky surfaces

8 parts poly to one part thinners for brush application, you get no
bubbles or brush marks. I've been in the refinishing/restoration
business since the 1960's, if works fine.


Aaahhhh. Poly:thinner, not the other way around. I get it.

Does that help with sagging (or make it worse)?

Josh

  #14   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
Dan-the-K
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with sticky surfaces


Tom Banes wrote:
On 31 May 2006 14:23:46 -0700, "Dan-the-K" wrote:
. Tom, are you saying it was the raw linseed oil
in the tack cloth?

Dan


Dan:

That's my guess, but I've been wrong before (many times). A tack cloth
shouldn't leave a wet or sticky surface after use, so something was
squirrely.

Regards.


Minwax wrote in response, saying "Also, we do not recommend using tack
cloth with any of our products due to the chemical incompatibility of
the tack cloth
resin. We recommend using mineral spirits and a lint free cloth to prep
and
clean the surfaces."

Dan

  #15   Report Post  
Posted to rec.antiques,rec.woodworking
mike wilcox
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with sticky surfaces

Josh wrote:

8 parts poly to one part thinners for brush application, you get no
bubbles or brush marks. I've been in the refinishing/restoration
business since the 1960's, if works fine.



Aaahhhh. Poly:thinner, not the other way around. I get it.

Does that help with sagging (or make it worse)?

Josh


Sagging/runs tends to happen within about ten minutes of application,
just keep an eye out for it and lightly brush them our with a foam brush.

Mike Wilcox


  #16   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
Tom Banes
 
Posts: n/a
Default Help with sticky surfaces

AHA!


On 1 Jun 2006 18:19:15 -0700, "Dan-the-K" wrote:

Minwax wrote in response, saying "Also, we do not recommend using tack
cloth with any of our products due to the chemical incompatibility of
the tack cloth
resin. We recommend using mineral spirits and a lint free cloth to prep
and
clean the surfaces."

Dan

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TopCote - how is the metal surface supposed to be after treatment? mine is slightly sticky Daniel H Woodworking 5 September 7th 05 03:39 PM
Help - Sticky Floor single mum UK diy 9 August 30th 05 12:54 AM
Does polishing one or both surfaces reduce metal to metal friction? SA Development Metalworking 5 June 7th 05 02:19 AM
double sided sticky pads wig UK diy 7 June 2nd 05 12:37 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:56 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"