On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 21:50:26 -0600, Oleg Lego
wrote:


That's a cycloid, not a sine. Still far and away the easiest is to
use a graphing program like Graphmatica

Sounds interesting, but I have not been able to find it. Is that name
correct? If so, would you happen to know what directory it's in?

The address is correct: http://archives.math.utk.edu

Top right, Software section, click "Windows...."
Choose "Graphing programs", and there find Graphmatica.
It's labelled as shareware, but the author generously offers it free
if not affordable.

Click that, then choose grmat16n.zip for the latest Windows version.
It will do for the shop, for the kids in high school, or in college
and university. Type in a function as done normally: e.g. y =
2sin(x), no need for 2*sin(x) etc.. You can graph an ellipse as well,
but that can be done as readily, and to scale in a simple but powerful
CAD such as DeltaCad.

Default is a coloured background, and coloured curves, but you can
change that to white. You can do more than one in one shot. Tons
more software there, but not for this forum. I just mentioned it for
anyone wanting some usual or unusual math curve.

Oleg Lego wrote:
The Guess who entity posted thusly:


That's a cycloid, not a sine. Still far and away the easiest is to
use a graphing program like Graphmatica [download from
archives.math.utk.edu ...it's awesome and free.] Type in y=sin(x)
ENTER, and you then print from there or copy/paste into a word
processor. Less than a minute if you have both programs up and
running.


Sounds interesting, but I have not been able to find it. Is that name
correct? If so, would you happen to know what directory it's in?

http://archives.math.utk.edu/softwar...ng/grmat/.html

er
--
email not valid

The Guess who entity posted thusly:

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 21:50:26 -0600, Oleg Lego
wrote:


That's a cycloid, not a sine. Still far and away the easiest is to
use a graphing program like Graphmatica

Sounds interesting, but I have not been able to find it. Is that name
correct? If so, would you happen to know what directory it's in?

The address is correct: http://archives.math.utk.edu

Ahh.. thanks. My problem was in using ftp, and couldn't find it in the
directory tree. Turns out Enoch pointed me at it, in a directory
(msdos) that I would never have thought to look in. Anyway, that
pointed me to the author's web site, and I grabbed the latest version
(2.0n).

That's a slick little program. Gonna try making some paraboloids.

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 22:50:30 -0600, Oleg Lego
wrote:

That's a slick little program. Gonna try making some paraboloids.

That will be difficult, since it's all 2D. I could point to some 3D
software, but you still won't get it to leap off the paper. Stick to
the 2D and rotate the finished template.

wrote:

However, the question remains--what if I wanted a curve with a
different amplitude or wavelength? This template idea crossed my mind,
but how to generate such a curve?

Generate a sine function in a spreadsheet, plot it on a chart, print it out.

y=h*sine(x)

y: output value
h: height of the spline (above and below zero)
x: input in degrees

Chris

(in
) said:

| However, the question remains--what if I wanted a curve with a
| different amplitude or wavelength? This template idea crossed my
| mind, but how to generate such a curve? Can Autocad do it?

This is the easiest part of all. Draw a sinusoid (a sine or cosine
curve) with any amplitude or wavelength, then stretch (or squash) to
the amplitude and wavelength you want. Copy and paste as many cycles
as you want.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

Sine curves don't faintly resemble the conic projections, ellipse and
parabola except that they are all curves, which includes an infinite
family of exponentials, logarithmic, etc. etc.
Since wine bottles are basically cylinders, the family of conic
projections will fit them precisely. If you want some air space between
the bottle and rack, then almost anything should do. Those interested
should open a book on analytical geometry.
Bugs

"Bugs" wrote in message
ups.com...
Sine curves don't faintly resemble the conic projections, ellipse and
parabola except that they are all curves, which includes an infinite
family of exponentials, logarithmic, etc. etc.

Except that ellipses have curves with more than 1 radius similar to
sections of a sine wave.


Since wine bottles are basically cylinders, the family of conic
projections will fit them precisely.

Which is why I indicated an arc will fit more closely fit or follow the
shape of a bottle than an ellipse. An arc is a section of a circle. An
ellipse is a circle illustrated in isometric or 3d format.

The Guess who entity posted thusly:

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 22:50:30 -0600, Oleg Lego
wrote:

That's a slick little program. Gonna try making some paraboloids.

That will be difficult, since it's all 2D. I could point to some 3D
software, but you still won't get it to leap off the paper. Stick to
the 2D and rotate the finished template.

That was my plan... I only need a few templates to form a framework to
be filled. I was going to use the "hanging chain catenary" for it, but
this will be easier.

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 12:50:59 -0600, Oleg Lego
wrote:

That was my plan... I only need a few templates to form a framework to
be filled. I was going to use the "hanging chain catenary" for it, but
this will be easier.

They are different. You can still as easily plot the catenary though
if that's what you want. Nobody will notice the difference [or be too
interested.] You'll need the parabola if you need a focal point.

The Guess who entity posted thusly:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 12:50:59 -0600, Oleg Lego
wrote:

That was my plan... I only need a few templates to form a framework to
be filled. I was going to use the "hanging chain catenary" for it, but
this will be easier.

They are different. You can still as easily plot the catenary though
if that's what you want. Nobody will notice the difference [or be too
interested.] You'll need the parabola if you need a focal point.

Interesting. I was told that a catenary was a parabola. Of course it
was a web page somewhere that told me this, and we all know how
absolutely accurate web pages are. I will need a focal point, so
thanks for the info.

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 21:41:48 -0600, Oleg Lego
wrote:


They are different. You can still as easily plot the catenary though
if that's what you want. Nobody will notice the difference [or be too
interested.] You'll need the parabola if you need a focal point.

Interesting. I was told that a catenary was a parabola. Of course it
was a web page somewhere that told me this, and we all know how
absolutely accurate web pages are. I will need a focal point, so
thanks for the info.

The parabola is a conic section. The catenary's a different ball of
wax involving exponentials. Have fun looking into it. I'll end it
here.

Oleg Lego (in ) said:

| The Guess who entity posted thusly:
|
|| On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 12:50:59 -0600, Oleg Lego
|| wrote:
||
||| That was my plan... I only need a few templates to form a
||| framework to be filled. I was going to use the "hanging chain
||| catenary" for it, but this will be easier.
||
|| They are different. You can still as easily plot the catenary
|| though if that's what you want. Nobody will notice the difference
|| [or be too interested.] You'll need the parabola if you need a
|| focal point.
|
| Interesting. I was told that a catenary was a parabola. Of course it
| was a web page somewhere that told me this, and we all know how
| absolutely accurate web pages are. I will need a focal point, so
| thanks for the info.

They're actually very different critters, as you can see from the
"shape" of their defining equations (source: Burington's "Handbook of
Mathematical Tables and Formulas") -

Catenary: y = a * (exp(x / a) + exp(-x / a)) / 2

Parabola: 4 * a * (y - k) = (x - h) * (x - h)

For a wine rack, I think I'd want concave circular arcs to support the
bottles - with either a horizontal flat or an ornamental convex curve
connecting those arcs. A repeating ogee might give an interesting
appearance...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 22:47:10 -0600, "Morris Dovey"
wrote:

For a wine rack, I think I'd want concave circular arcs to support the
bottles

That was my own thought. I was just having a bit of fun. One of the
best and most practical approaches is to look at where you "think"
you'd like the curve to go, and make a few marks. Then join the dots
with the French Curve. If anyone does get carried away with the
esoteric, and I've seen some fine woodworking that really was a work
of art, they might look here for further inspirationin their "famous
curves index":

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/

Copy/paste works just fine.

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:32:11 -0600, "Morris Dovey"
wrote:

Guess who (in ) said:

| Graphmatica is shareware, but free for those who can't afford it [so
| just use it if you can't.] PhotoFiltre , or "The Gimp" are freeware
| image editors. OpenOffice is a great free office suite with a
| wordprocessor and spreadsheet and much more.

Wow! I downloaded Graphmatica and _really_ like it. Wish I'd had
something like this when I was in school...

Perhaps your kids can use it ..or theirs?

It's mostly math, but anyone doing wood modelling can find a use. A
parabolic arch is the best support [to do with the focus], so would
make a good support for benches, tables, and so on. CAD will draw the
circle and ellipse, but I don't know of one that will draw a parabolic
curve. There are always layout methods, which were likely used in the
past [e.g. by the Romans] since the computer wasn't available way back
then. Layout is still generally the best if not too tedious, and I'm
not sure yet on the best way to get a printout to scale for a large
project. I'll work on that, or offer something about the layout
procedure. ...in time; too busy right now.