Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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  #1   Report Post  
Sidney
 
Posts: n/a
Default Building your own curve tracer

I now use my TEK465 oscilloscope's calibration output to generate
ringing pulses to test flybacks,yokes,transformers and video heads.I
also now use it to test ESR on electroyltic capacitors but would like
to build a simple and effective way to test transistors,diodes and
resistors like maybe a curve tracer or use my oscilloscope to test
them.
Anyone have a simple effective design for a curve tracer either a
stand alone device or using my TEK465 oscilloscope?.Thanks in advance.

Sidney

Dartmouth,Nova Scotia
Canada
  #2   Report Post  
NSM
 
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"Sidney" wrote in message
om...
| I now use my TEK465 oscilloscope's calibration output to generate
| ringing pulses to test flybacks,yokes,transformers and video heads.I
| also now use it to test ESR on electroyltic capacitors but would like
| to build a simple and effective way to test transistors,diodes and
| resistors like maybe a curve tracer or use my oscilloscope to test
| them.
| Anyone have a simple effective design for a curve tracer either a
| stand alone device or using my TEK465 oscilloscope?.Thanks in advance.

See if your local library has a collection of electronics magazines. You'll
have to go back about 20 years or more, but there were some designs
published. US "Radio Electronics" or UK "Wireless World" or Elektor would be
good places to look. Some tech colleges have libraries also.

N


  #3   Report Post  
Sam Goldwasser
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"NSM" writes:

"Sidney" wrote in message
om...
| I now use my TEK465 oscilloscope's calibration output to generate
| ringing pulses to test flybacks,yokes,transformers and video heads.I
| also now use it to test ESR on electroyltic capacitors but would like
| to build a simple and effective way to test transistors,diodes and
| resistors like maybe a curve tracer or use my oscilloscope to test
| them.
| Anyone have a simple effective design for a curve tracer either a
| stand alone device or using my TEK465 oscilloscope?.Thanks in advance.

See if your local library has a collection of electronics magazines. You'll
have to go back about 20 years or more, but there were some designs
published. US "Radio Electronics" or UK "Wireless World" or Elektor would be
good places to look. Some tech colleges have libraries also.


Building a curve tracer to demonstrate the principle of a curve tracer is
easy and quick. Building one that is actually a useful test instrument
is a lot more difficult and time consuming.

Let's have a show of hands.... How many really find a curve tracer to be
a piece of test equipment you use regularly and would dearly miss if you
didn't have one.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header is ignored.
To contact me, please use the feedback form on the S.E.R FAQ Web sites.


  #4   Report Post  
mike
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sam Goldwasser wrote:

Let's have a show of hands.... How many really find a curve tracer to be
a piece of test equipment you use regularly and would dearly miss if you
didn't have one.

I use my TEK 576 a lot.
Good for quick charging batteries.
Good for finding shorted caps. All you have to
do is remove the remaining leads and dig the cap
body out of the ceiling.
Good for burning shorts out of circuit boards.
If that fails, use it in 4-terminal mode to find the short.
You can look at a board node and see the resistances and the junctions
on one display.
Makes a nice 1500v breakdown/leakage test supply

Oh yeah, can also be used to look at transistor curves.
I frequently find power transistors that have been stressed
and have funny looking curves. For those in a variable environment,
like TEK TM500 mainframes, it's best to replace 'em before they blow
up your favorite plugin.

Zeners with soft breakdown curves.
Figuring out what you have in that bag of parts marked 2-456.
Selecting transistors for avalanche breakdown pulsers.
Matching transistors.
Testing phototransistors.
Testing tunnel diodes.

Sure, you can get by without one. But when you need it for that
elusive problem, it's very useful.

I'd use it a lot more if it weren't so BIG. It's down under the bench
and I have to sit on the floor to use it.
mike




--
Return address is VALID.
Wanted, 12.1" LCD for Gateway Solo 5300. Samsung LT121SU-121
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/

  #5   Report Post  
Tweetldee
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"NSM" wrote in message news:Ityad.2989$z96.1355@clgrps12...

"Sidney" wrote in message
om...
| I now use my TEK465 oscilloscope's calibration output to generate
| ringing pulses to test flybacks,yokes,transformers and video heads.I
| also now use it to test ESR on electroyltic capacitors but would like
| to build a simple and effective way to test transistors,diodes and
| resistors like maybe a curve tracer or use my oscilloscope to test
| them.
| Anyone have a simple effective design for a curve tracer either a
| stand alone device or using my TEK465 oscilloscope?.Thanks in advance.

See if your local library has a collection of electronics magazines.
You'll
have to go back about 20 years or more, but there were some designs
published. US "Radio Electronics" or UK "Wireless World" or Elektor would
be
good places to look. Some tech colleges have libraries also.

N


A simple curve tracer at http://www.intio.or.jp/jf10zl/trct.htm

--
Dave M
MasonDG44 at comcast dot net (Just subsitute the appropriate characters in
the address)

Never take a laxative and a sleeping pill at the same time!!




  #6   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 11 Oct 2004 12:53:15 -0400, Sam Goldwasser
wrote:

...

Building a curve tracer to demonstrate the principle of a curve tracer is
easy and quick. Building one that is actually a useful test instrument
is a lot more difficult and time consuming.

Let's have a show of hands.... How many really find a curve tracer to be
a piece of test equipment you use regularly and would dearly miss if you
didn't have one.


I remember the first time I used a curve tracer at work. Took me a
long time to realize that little line running out past 12 volts was
the whole show.

Later on, I got cheap kicks watching the temps scratching their heads
after hours of sitting in front of the Tek with the ludicrous
operation manual open next to them.


  #8   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:35:25 -0400, Chuck Harris
wrote:

wrote:

Let's have a show of hands.... How many really find a curve tracer to be
a piece of test equipment you use regularly and would dearly miss if you
didn't have one.



I remember the first time I used a curve tracer at work. Took me a
long time to realize that little line running out past 12 volts was
the whole show.

Later on, I got cheap kicks watching the temps scratching their heads
after hours of sitting in front of the Tek with the ludicrous
operation manual open next to them.


The books for the Tek 577/177 are sure a piece of .... work.
They don't even have one example of how to trace a transistor, and
have it survive... I guess you are just supposed to know.

Did anyone ever write a decent book explaining how to get the
most out of the Tek curve tracers?

-Chuck Harris

OBTW, I have used my 577/177 more for tracing tubes than for tracing transistors.



Yeah, now that I think about it, transistors did have a penchant for
dying Hot suckers too if you grabbed them too fast. As I recall,
keeping some transistors alive meant you might need to use heatsinks
and fans on the test device.

Never saw a good publication on the 577/177 myself, but I wouldn't be
surprised if there was one somewhere. I recall getting it to work was
mostly a process of elimination with the controls. You set the
obvious ones, and experimented with the mysterious ones. There were a
few bread crumbs scattered in the lousy manual. Just a few

Tek manuals for other models must have been better I once saw a
nice Tek GPIB curve tracer at a trade show. Bit expensive though.

I found out later when I got into purchasing test equipment that Tek
had a very helpful salesman assigned to our company who was only too
happy to run over any time. I could have called him up and had him
test the parts for me Something they don't teach you in business
school.


  #10   Report Post  
Thomas P. Gootee
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sam Goldwasser wrote in message ...
"NSM" writes:

"Sidney" wrote in message
om...
| I now use my TEK465 oscilloscope's calibration output to generate
| ringing pulses to test flybacks,yokes,transformers and video heads.I
| also now use it to test ESR on electroyltic capacitors but would like
| to build a simple and effective way to test transistors,diodes and
| resistors like maybe a curve tracer or use my oscilloscope to test
| them.
| Anyone have a simple effective design for a curve tracer either a
| stand alone device or using my TEK465 oscilloscope?.Thanks in advance.

See if your local library has a collection of electronics magazines. You'll
have to go back about 20 years or more, but there were some designs
published. US "Radio Electronics" or UK "Wireless World" or Elektor would be
good places to look. Some tech colleges have libraries also.


Building a curve tracer to demonstrate the principle of a curve tracer is
easy and quick. Building one that is actually a useful test instrument
is a lot more difficult and time consuming.

Let's have a show of hands.... How many really find a curve tracer to be
a piece of test equipment you use regularly and would dearly miss if you
didn't have one.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header is ignored.
To contact me, please use the feedback form on the S.E.R FAQ Web sites.


---------------------

SAM,

*MY* hand is up.

I use my Gootee Curve Tracer regularly, and just could not LIVE
without it!

Many others who own this model swear by it, too. Some people who also
have top-of-the-line Huntron models in their labs have said that
they'd put the Gootee Curve Tracer up against the Huntrons, any day.
And the Gootee unit's cost is WAY, way less than the Huntron's. (And,
actually, it does way MORE than a Huntron.)

Okay, hehe. I'm Gootee. But it's all true!

I designed the Gootee Curve Tracer for MYSELF, originally. So it has a
lot of great features that I wanted, but couldn't possibly justify
buying elsewhere.

Anyway, I find that I often use my curve tracer just like I'd use a
"Huntron Tracker" type of unit (i.e. without using the transistor
base/gate staircase output). When I'm troubleshooting a piece of gear,
I can use it to test components in-circuit. And if I have a working
unit that's identical to the one I'm repairing, then it's almost a
no-brainer, since I can just trace through the circuits, comparing the
displayed signatures for the same circuit points in the two units
until I see a difference, to locate a bad part.

I don't test standalone transistors and components as much as I
thought I would, back when I used to cannibalize a lot of consumer
gear for parts, for what was then my "repair" hobby. But it IS great
for that. And the ability to just use switches to select which of the
three transistor voltages and currents to display is very handy, as is
being able to flip their displayed polarities.

Mine also has adjustable + and - tracking power supply outputs, and a
fixed +5v output, on the rear panel. So it's very handy to also use it
as a power source for IC breadboards, etc.

I also occasionally use it as a signal source, since it provides ramp,
triangle, and integrated sine outputs, with a synchronized pulse
output (and a synchronized staircase output). And the main
ramp/triangle/sine output can push at least 1.5 amps and has six
selectable frequencies and a twelve selectable current-limiting
resistances, as well as six selectable peak-to-peak voltages.

If anyone cares to check it out, the Homepage of the Gootee Curve
Tracer is at:

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteect.htm

We sell it in several versions, including "fully assembled and
tested", and in DIY "Kit" form, and also just the "Plans".

I don't want to blow my own horn TOO much more loudly, here (well,
actually, yes I do, hehe), but, I also recently finished two major
re-design projects, for the Curve Tracer.

One re-design was just to improve the power amplifier board, to use a
feedback control loop to control the amp's gain (and thus the output
amplitude), which also eliminated a large number (144!) of switched
resistors and a LOT of wiring, which made it perform even better and
made it MUCH easier to assemble, as well as making each output level
individually adjustable/calibratable (based on a 0.4% precision
voltage reference).

The second re-design was for "manufacturability". I moved the whole
main board from the bottom of the case to a new board that's just
behind (and parallel to) the front panel, allowing all of the rotary
switches, pots, toggle switches, and BNC and banana connectors to be
connected *directly* into the circuit board, eliminating LOTS of
discrete wiring and cutting the assembly time and effort dramatically.
I also made sure that the few remaining board-to-board wires have at
least one end that is connected using a terminal block rather than
solder, so that the individual boards can easily be removed and
re-installed, to improve maintainability and upgradability. [Although,
I should probably mention that there hasn't been a single report of a
failure, or any repair needed, in the five years that I've been
selling them (at least not after a kit was finally completed and
working correctly).]

Sorry to have blathered-on, for so long, about that. I realize it's
like a commercial advertisement. But I FEEL more like a happy customer
who just wants everyone else to know how great this thing is.

------------ OT:

BY THE WAY: If anyone has any ideas about OTHER types of instruments
they'd like to have available, I'm always in the market for those.

CASE IN POINT: Are there any analog circuit designers out there who
might be interested in a "Bode-Plotter", that would display the gain
and phase plots together, on a scope? It seems like it sure would be
nice to have, when (for example) tweaking the open-loop transfer
function for a new opamp circuit. Sure, you could buy a "network
analyzer", for a five-figure price. But would there be any interest in
one with, say, a limited frequency range, that was available as a kit
or assembled, with *MUCH*-lower pricing? I know **I** WANT one. Does
anybody else? (And, if so, are there any particular features or specs
that you would want it to have?)

------------

Regards,

Tom

Tom Gootee

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg


  #11   Report Post  
Norm Dresner
 
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Default

"Thomas P. Gootee" wrote in message
m...

Sidney,

I have complete plans for a VERY nice little curve tracer, at:

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteect.htm

I also have them on ebay.com, fairly often, where they sometimes sell
for slightly less.

Tom

Tom Gootee

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg


It looks fairly nice.

UNFORTUNATELY, NOBODY PLAYS **** MUSIC ON MY COMPUTER WITHOUT MY CONSENT SO
I'M BLACKLISTING YOUR @#$% SITE.



  #12   Report Post  
Tweetldee
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Norm Dresner" wrote in message
...
"Thomas P. Gootee" wrote in message
m...

Sidney,

I have complete plans for a VERY nice little curve tracer, at:

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteect.htm

I also have them on ebay.com, fairly often, where they sometimes sell
for slightly less.

Tom

Tom Gootee

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg


It looks fairly nice.

UNFORTUNATELY, NOBODY PLAYS **** MUSIC ON MY COMPUTER WITHOUT MY CONSENT
SO
I'M BLACKLISTING YOUR @#$% SITE.



Lighten up, dude.. you gonna blow a gasket there... If a little tune sets
you off like that, I'd hate to be around you if somebody spilled wine on
your white jacket!! Woohoooooooooo

--
Dave M

Never take a laxative and a sleeping pill at the same time!!


  #13   Report Post  
Norm Dresner
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Tweetldee" wrote in message
news:iIZbd.477504$8_6.10170@attbi_s04...
"Norm Dresner" wrote in message
...
"Thomas P. Gootee" wrote in message
m...

Sidney,

I have complete plans for a VERY nice little curve tracer, at:

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteect.htm

I also have them on ebay.com, fairly often, where they sometimes sell
for slightly less.

Tom

Tom Gootee

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg


It looks fairly nice.

UNFORTUNATELY, NOBODY PLAYS **** MUSIC ON MY COMPUTER WITHOUT MY CONSENT
SO
I'M BLACKLISTING YOUR @#$% SITE.



Lighten up, dude.. you gonna blow a gasket there... If a little tune

sets
you off like that, I'd hate to be around you if somebody spilled wine on
your white jacket!! Woohoooooooooo

--


I do make a distinction between true accidents and intentional acts that are
not necessary. Playing music when I visit a site is not an accident. It's
intentional! And it's damned annoying to me. It doesn't matter why. It's
my office, my desk, my computer and my ears. And it's damned annoying. To
me.

If the site had a prominent button to turn the music off, I'd never have
complained. But it doesn't.

Norm

  #14   Report Post  
Chuck Harris
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Norm Dresner wrote:

you off like that, I'd hate to be around you if somebody spilled wine on
your white jacket!! Woohoooooooooo

--



I do make a distinction between true accidents and intentional acts that are
not necessary. Playing music when I visit a site is not an accident. It's
intentional! And it's damned annoying to me. It doesn't matter why. It's
my office, my desk, my computer and my ears. And it's damned annoying. To
me.

If the site had a prominent button to turn the music off, I'd never have
complained. But it doesn't.

Norm


It doesn't need to, you have that power within your browser. If you don't
like sites that play music, remove the plugin that plays music.

-Chuck
  #15   Report Post  
gerry
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:11:12 -0400, Chuck Harris
wrote:

Norm Dresner wrote:

you off like that, I'd hate to be around you if somebody spilled wine on
your white jacket!! Woohoooooooooo

--



I do make a distinction between true accidents and intentional acts that are
not necessary. Playing music when I visit a site is not an accident. It's
intentional! And it's damned annoying to me. It doesn't matter why. It's
my office, my desk, my computer and my ears. And it's damned annoying. To
me.

If the site had a prominent button to turn the music off, I'd never have
complained. But it doesn't.

Norm


It doesn't need to, you have that power within your browser. If you don't
like sites that play music, remove the plugin that plays music.

-Chuck



for IE5
tools internet options advanced
uncheck the multimedia play sounds box




  #16   Report Post  
Me
 
Posts: n/a
Default

http://www.techlib.com/electronics/curvetrace.html

Sam is the man:
http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/semitest.htm
Scroll down for info on curve tracers.

Don't forget Dallas
http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/253
Printer port curve tracer.

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 05:03:49 -0700, Sidney wrote:

I now use my TEK465 oscilloscope's calibration output to generate ringing
pulses to test flybacks,yokes,transformers and video heads.I also now use
it to test ESR on electroyltic capacitors but would like to build a simple
and effective way to test transistors,diodes and resistors like maybe a
curve tracer or use my oscilloscope to test them.
Anyone have a simple effective design for a curve tracer either a stand
alone device or using my TEK465 oscilloscope?.Thanks in advance.

Sidney

Dartmouth,Nova Scotia
Canada


  #17   Report Post  
NSM
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Norm Dresner" wrote in message
...
| "Tweetldee" wrote in message
| news:iIZbd.477504$8_6.10170@attbi_s04...

| Lighten up, dude.. you gonna blow a gasket there... If a little tune
| sets
| you off like that, I'd hate to be around you if somebody spilled wine on
| your white jacket!! Woohoooooooooo
|
| --
|
| I do make a distinction between true accidents and intentional acts that
are
| not necessary. Playing music when I visit a site is not an accident.
It's
| intentional! And it's damned annoying to me. It doesn't matter why.
It's
| my office, my desk, my computer and my ears. And it's damned annoying.
To
| me.
|
| If the site had a prominent button to turn the music off, I'd never have
| complained. But it doesn't.

I have a button on my keyboard that does that. Yes, it's stupid to play
music on web sites. But there's no shortage of stupid people in the
universe.

N


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