A stanley #5 with lots of blade, a type 19 with the rounded cutter top,
rosewood handles, nickel plated forked lever, and vertical characters on
the lateral adjust. Looks like it was only used a little, and I think
the factory milling marks are still on the cutter bevel.

Cost me $10 and about as much to ship.

I'm very happy with the plane. Except for one thing. During shipping
the toe was chipped and the iron deformed around the chip such that I'll
have to lap the sole a bit to get things right. There's a smile on that
end of the box where the plane punched through it, and the only packing
is some bubble wrap wound around its long axis (ends were exposed) and
some popcorn.

Doesn't bother me.

But now, do I take one for the team and leave bad feedback? 'Cause it's
still a good deal. I made a huge error not checking this guy's feedback
before bidding and now I notice it is awful, he doesn't give feedback
unless the seller gives it first, and he's retaliatory. I can be
assured of getting bad feedback, but I'm also reasonably sure no one
would take it seriously. His bad feedback would have kept me from
bidding... had I looked. Maybe that's why it was so cheap?

Because now I'm faced with my own principles: I rate shipping speed,
packaging, and match to description. That's always what I said, and
I've always given good feedback because I never thought I had a problem
with any of those. But this time, I think the packaging was bad, even
when the other criteria are good, this one was bad.

So I could give a neutral. He'll (I'm sure) give me a negative, and
I'll have to clarify in the followups and hope people read it.

I could give a negative. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

er
--
email not valid

"Enoch Root" wrote in message

end of the box where the plane punched through it, and the only packing
is some bubble wrap wound around its long axis (ends were exposed) and
some popcorn.

Doesn't bother me.

But now, do I take one for the team and leave bad feedback?

So I could give a neutral. He'll (I'm sure) give me a negative, and
I'll have to clarify in the followups and hope people read it.

I could give a negative. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

No reason to be negative. Be honest. Good price, good product, packing
could have been a little better. He may have felt it was packed pretty
good and handling may have been excessive no matter how well it was packed.
You can't blame the seller if that was the case.

Meantime, enjoy your new toy.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

Enoch Root wrote:
A stanley #5 with lots of blade, a type 19 with the rounded cutter top,
rosewood handles, nickel plated forked lever, and vertical characters on
the lateral adjust. Looks like it was only used a little, and I think
the factory milling marks are still on the cutter bevel.

Nice


Cost me $10 and about as much to ship.

Not bad.


During shipping the toe was chipped and the iron deformed.

AAAAAAaaaaaaow!!!!!


But now, do I leave bad feedback?
he's retaliatory.
I could give a negative. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.


You could message him and ask if he would give you a credit or
co-operate with you in some other way. If he has another #5, maybe he
could send you another one for a heap big discount. If no co-operation,
THEN SLAM THE HE** OUT OF HIM!!!

Tom in KY, been ripped on the 'bay more than once. They just don't
care, was the package insured?

On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 04:59:23 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

Be honest. Good price, good product, packing
could have been a little better.

It's an auction. Sellers don't control the price, they do control the
packaging. I'd neg him.

Enoch Root wrote:
A stanley #5 with lots of blade, a type 19 with the rounded cutter top,
rosewood handles, nickel plated forked lever, and vertical characters on
the lateral adjust. Looks like it was only used a little, and I think
the factory milling marks are still on the cutter bevel.

Cost me $10 and about as much to ship.

I'm very happy with the plane. Except for one thing. During shipping
the toe was chipped and the iron deformed around the chip such that I'll
have to lap the sole a bit to get things right. There's a smile on that
end of the box where the plane punched through it, and the only packing
is some bubble wrap wound around its long axis (ends were exposed) and
some popcorn.

Doesn't bother me.

But now, do I take one for the team and leave bad feedback? 'Cause it's
still a good deal. I made a huge error not checking this guy's feedback
before bidding and now I notice it is awful, he doesn't give feedback
unless the seller gives it first, and he's retaliatory. I can be
assured of getting bad feedback, but I'm also reasonably sure no one
would take it seriously. His bad feedback would have kept me from
bidding... had I looked. Maybe that's why it was so cheap?

Because now I'm faced with my own principles: I rate shipping speed,
packaging, and match to description. That's always what I said, and
I've always given good feedback because I never thought I had a problem
with any of those. But this time, I think the packaging was bad, even
when the other criteria are good, this one was bad.

So I could give a neutral. He'll (I'm sure) give me a negative, and
I'll have to clarify in the followups and hope people read it.

I could give a negative. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

er


I sometimes leave a negative comment inside "positive" rated feedback.

--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

dnoyeB wrote:
Enoch Root wrote:

I sometimes leave a negative comment inside "positive" rated feedback.


As much as I love your sig,

I believe that if you score them a positive and slam them in the
comment, you run a risk of a full out negative retaliation.

Tom in KY, but I'm just a poor man and no-one listens to me.

If you are not going to be honest in leaving feedback, the whole feedback
system should be scrapped. What is the purpose of it if not to give honest
opinions of the sale?
"Enoch Root" wrote in message
news:2JGdnfgexP3o_HDenZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d@forethought. net...

But now, do I take one for the team and leave bad feedback? 'Cause it's
still a good deal. I made a huge error not checking this guy's feedback
before bidding and now I notice it is awful, he doesn't give feedback
unless the seller gives it first, and he's retaliatory. I can be
assured of getting bad feedback, but I'm also reasonably sure no one
would take it seriously. His bad feedback would have kept me from
bidding... had I looked. Maybe that's why it was so cheap?

Squarei4dtoolguy wrote:
dnoyeB wrote:

Enoch Root wrote:

I sometimes leave a negative comment inside "positive" rated feedback.



As much as I love your sig,

I believe that if you score them a positive and slam them in the
comment, you run a risk of a full out negative retaliation.

Tom in KY, but I'm just a poor man and no-one listens to me.


I don't care what other people rate me. It won't affect how I rate
them. I don't buy from people with shady ratings and I pay attention to
the replies to ratings when they are negative.

--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

Squarei4dtoolguy wrote:
dnoyeB wrote:

I sometimes leave a negative comment inside "positive" rated feedback.

I do something like that: I will mention deficiencies that I don't think
rate a negative.

As much as I love your sig,

I believe that if you score them a positive and slam them in the
comment, you run a risk of a full out negative retaliation.

Yes. If I were to leave a positive, it would only be after he left his
feedback. I think he should be rating my purchase: normally I wouldn't
have bid on his auction because it is clear he doesn't give feedback
until the buyer does, holds feedback over his buyers head, and
invariably wields it when the buyer finds something wrong (hint for
sellers: There is a very nice and positive way to deal with negative
feedback. Don't break the sh/pk/description rules and always be helpful
and solicitous and responsive to criticism--you'll get me every time
even with your "bad" feedback.) I saw the auction at the last minute
and had no time to check him out.

But if I were determined to leave a negative, I might do that in spite
of his not having left feedback.

er
--
email not valid

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 20:00:51 -0800, Enoch Root
wrote:

I'm very happy with the plane. Except for one thing. During shipping
the toe was chipped and the iron deformed around the chip such that I'll
have to lap the sole a bit to get things right. There's a smile on that
end of the box where the plane punched through it, and the only packing
is some bubble wrap wound around its long axis (ends were exposed) and
some popcorn.

It doesn't sound like you were scammed. It doesn't sound like the
seller made no attempt at packing it correctly. It sounds like they
screwed up, and now that you realize you screwed up by not checking
their feedback first you are freaking out and want to neg the guy
without giving him a chance to work something.

In my book at this point if anyone deserves a negative it's you.

Check the auction listing to see if the seller has any information as
far as how they handle problems. Contact the seller and explain there
was a problem with the packing and that you are willing to keep the
item but you're going to have to do X amount of work to get it
functional. See what they say.


-Leuf

CW wrote:
If you are not going to be honest in leaving feedback, the whole feedback
system should be scrapped. What is the purpose of it if not to give honest
opinions of the sale?

Yes, I'm running up against my principles as you can see, and now have
to act (or not) on them.

er
--
email not valid

Leuf wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 20:00:51 -0800, Enoch Root
wrote:


I'm very happy with the plane. Except for one thing. During shipping
the toe was chipped and the iron deformed around the chip such that I'll
have to lap the sole a bit to get things right. There's a smile on that
end of the box where the plane punched through it, and the only packing
is some bubble wrap wound around its long axis (ends were exposed) and
some popcorn.


It doesn't sound like you were scammed. It doesn't sound like the
seller made no attempt at packing it correctly. It sounds like they
screwed up, and now that you realize you screwed up by not checking
their feedback first you are freaking out and want to neg the guy
without giving him a chance to work something.

Now that's reasonable, even while it is against my principles.

In my book at this point if anyone deserves a negative it's you.

I've already dinged myself, believe me. Look at me: I'm in agony here.

Check the auction listing to see if the seller has any information as
far as how they handle problems. Contact the seller and explain there
was a problem with the packing and that you are willing to keep the
item but you're going to have to do X amount of work to get it
functional. See what they say.

That's why I think an email clarifying the problem, and that I'm still
happy, would be valuable to him if he weren't such a "negative" guy.

My email to him (when I send it) has to be very a carefully drawn one.

I'll disappoint CW if I do that, though. But I think it's possible the
seller'd respond well enough for future buyers. Dunno if it's probable,
however.

er
--
email not valid

Some people just don't know how to pack. This is also true for some
companies. I would first tell the seller about the shipping damage and find
out if he wants to do anything about it (maybe a discount or a replacement
if he has another). If he doesn't know his items are being damaged, I would
not expect him to improve his packaging. Afterward, I would leave positive
feedback saying something like "nice item but packaging could have been
better".

I have bought a couple things off eBay. I never left any kind of feedback.
Never knew you could. Wasn't to concerned with it and didn't know there was
such a thing until it started being discussed here. Ignorant of the system,
I am, so what I am about to say may well be off the mark but here goes.
Assuming that you are just a buyer, not an eBay trader that also sells, what
is bad feedback that he may give you worth? Is there some way that they can
set up their auctions so they won't take bids from selected people? What are
they going to say about you? That your money wasn't green enough? After
winning an auction, can the seller back out on the deal if he doesn't like
the buyer? I don't know eBay's rules but I would think that someone puts
something up for auction, they are obligated to sell it to the highest
bidder, whether they like them or not. I read your original post with a
description of the damage and the way it was packed. No reasonable person
would call that packing job adequate. It was very obvious that, once he got
his money, nothing else mattered. If I were you, I would do one of two
things, either leave no feedback at all or describe the problem. In no way
would I give this guy a positive.
"Enoch Root" wrote in message
news:sLidnX3wL5zsz3PenZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@forethought. net...
CW wrote:
If you are not going to be honest in leaving feedback, the whole
feedback
system should be scrapped. What is the purpose of it if not to give
honest
opinions of the sale?

Yes, I'm running up against my principles as you can see, and now have
to act (or not) on them.

er
--
email not valid

CW wrote:
I have bought a couple things off eBay. I never left any kind of feedback.
Never knew you could. Wasn't to concerned with it and didn't know there was
such a thing until it started being discussed here. Ignorant of the system,
I am, so what I am about to say may well be off the mark but here goes.
Assuming that you are just a buyer, not an eBay trader that also sells, what
is bad feedback that he may give you worth?

It's not worth much if I'm a buyer. Based on my observations a seller
need be much more concerned with feedback and his behavior with it than
a buyer. Of course that's influenced by my own ideas of good sellers,
right or wrong. A buyer only has to worry about being a niggling prick.
But I don't want that to influence my decision.

Is there some way that they can
set up their auctions so they won't take bids from selected people?

Yes... some even ask that you email them before bidding if you have bad
feedback. If you don't you risk... what do you risk? Bad feedback,
blocked auction, the sellers ire.

What are
they going to say about you? That your money wasn't green enough? After
winning an auction, can the seller back out on the deal if he doesn't like
the buyer? I don't know eBay's rules but I would think that someone puts
something up for auction, they are obligated to sell it to the highest
bidder, whether they like them or not.

No I think you can sell or not sell to whomever you please.

I read your original post with a
description of the damage and the way it was packed. No reasonable person
would call that packing job adequate.

You may be right. But this person has no experience with handplanes either.

It was very obvious that, once he got
his money, nothing else mattered. If I were you, I would do one of two
things, either leave no feedback at all or describe the problem. In no way
would I give this guy a positive.

Well, unless he gives me feedback first he'll only get a negative. I
didn't state that right. I've stated it elsewhere, though.

"Enoch Root" wrote in message
news:sLidnX3wL5zsz3PenZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@forethought. net...

CW wrote:

If you are not going to be honest in leaving feedback, the whole

feedback

system should be scrapped. What is the purpose of it if not to give

honest

opinions of the sale?

Yes, I'm running up against my principles as you can see, and now have
to act (or not) on them.

er
--
email not valid

AL wrote:
Some people just don't know how to pack. This is also true for some
companies. I would first tell the seller about the shipping damage and find
out if he wants to do anything about it (maybe a discount or a replacement
if he has another). If he doesn't know his items are being damaged, I would
not expect him to improve his packaging. Afterward, I would leave positive
feedback saying something like "nice item but packaging could have been
better".

I like that response. I would like that he packed his stuff better,
even if I'll never buy from him again.

er
--
email not valid

On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 13:13:48 -0800, Enoch Root
wrote:

My email to him (when I send it) has to be very a carefully drawn one.

Whenever I have a problem on ebay (admittedly not many so far) I take
a perhaps naive but so far effective approach. I simply state the
facts as I see them and see what they say, sort of like leaving
feedback. The losers will hang themselves. I had one guy say he
mailed it the day before, and then it shows up priority mail with the
day after post mark. What the heck was the point in lying in the
first place, and something that was obviously going to be proven to be
a lie.


-Leuf

Leuf wrote:
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 13:13:48 -0800, Enoch Root
wrote:

My email to him (when I send it) has to be very a carefully drawn one.

What the heck was the point in lying in the
first place, and something that was obviously going to be proven to be
a lie.

*looks up*

Nope. Not me talking. But sounds like something I said recently.

Note to self: Not so many Ebay related posts, ferchrissakes.

er
--
email not valid

Enoch Root wrote:
But now, do I take one for the team and leave bad feedback? 'Cause it's
still a good deal. I made a huge error not checking this guy's feedback
before bidding and now I notice it is awful, he doesn't give feedback
unless the seller gives it first, and he's retaliatory. I can be
assured of getting bad feedback, but I'm also reasonably sure no one
would take it seriously. His bad feedback would have kept me from
bidding... had I looked. Maybe that's why it was so cheap?

If he's got bad feedback already, is adding another going to help much?

(I dunno; it might.)

My opinion is this: don't give anything other than a positive without
giving the seller an opportunity to make it right. If he's rude, that
at least adds to your sense of him deserving a less-than-positive feedback.

Also, I'll note that the option of leaving a positive feedback but
commenting on the problems really doesn't help, in my opinion -- I look
at the numbers, and if they're less than stellar, I look at what the
negatives and neutrals say. If the seller has more than a dozen
feedbacks, it's just not worth reading the positives. I think that just
not leaving feedback would be a better statement.

- Brooks


--
The "bmoses-nospam" address is valid; no unmunging needed.

Brooks Moses wrote:
Enoch Root wrote:

But now, do I take one for the team and leave bad feedback? 'Cause it's
still a good deal. I made a huge error not checking this guy's feedback
before bidding and now I notice it is awful, he doesn't give feedback
unless the seller gives it first, and he's retaliatory. I can be
assured of getting bad feedback, but I'm also reasonably sure no one
would take it seriously. His bad feedback would have kept me from
bidding... had I looked. Maybe that's why it was so cheap?


If he's got bad feedback already, is adding another going to help much?

(I dunno; it might.)

It does, near as I can tell: it generates more willingness in
subsequent buyers to give negative feedback.

It also gives prospectives a chance to see how he behaves.

My opinion is this: don't give anything other than a positive without
giving the seller an opportunity to make it right. If he's rude, that
at least adds to your sense of him deserving a less-than-positive feedback.

Yep, agree with that.

Also, I'll note that the option of leaving a positive feedback but
commenting on the problems really doesn't help, in my opinion -- I look
at the numbers, and if they're less than stellar, I look at what the
negatives and neutrals say. If the seller has more than a dozen
feedbacks, it's just not worth reading the positives. I think that just
not leaving feedback would be a better statement.

Doesn't help you, but others do scan the positives especially when
feedback is marginal.

And in my case, at least, not leaving feedback just means he hasn't.
Anyway (and more importantly) not leaving feedback is the least
information, and defeats the feedback system.

Perfect information is the best conditions for capitalism, or so they say.

er
--
email not valid

Enoch Root wrote:
A stanley #5 with lots of blade, a type 19 with the rounded cutter top,
rosewood handles, nickel plated forked lever, and vertical characters on
the lateral adjust. Looks like it was only used a little, and I think
the factory milling marks are still on the cutter bevel.

Cost me $10 and about as much to ship.

I'm very happy with the plane. Except for one thing. During shipping
the toe was chipped and the iron deformed around the chip such that I'll
have to lap the sole a bit to get things right. There's a smile on that
end of the box where the plane punched through it, and the only packing
is some bubble wrap wound around its long axis (ends were exposed) and
some popcorn.

Doesn't bother me.

But now, do I take one for the team and leave bad feedback? 'Cause it's
still a good deal. I made a huge error not checking this guy's feedback
before bidding and now I notice it is awful, he doesn't give feedback
unless the seller gives it first, and he's retaliatory. I can be
assured of getting bad feedback, but I'm also reasonably sure no one
would take it seriously. His bad feedback would have kept me from
bidding... had I looked. Maybe that's why it was so cheap?

Because now I'm faced with my own principles: I rate shipping speed,
packaging, and match to description. That's always what I said, and
I've always given good feedback because I never thought I had a problem
with any of those. But this time, I think the packaging was bad, even
when the other criteria are good, this one was bad.

So I could give a neutral. He'll (I'm sure) give me a negative, and
I'll have to clarify in the followups and hope people read it.

I could give a negative. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

It's not clear whether you bought the plane as a user or as a
collectible. The item was very inexpensive so you probably didn't ask
for insurance, right? I do the same thing. It's a lot safer bet if
you've checked the feedback beforehand and read what's been written
about the seller's packaging. Otherwise, get the insurance. You can
ask for them to ship the item UPS instead of USPS as the big brown
includes the first $100 (I think) of insurance coverage in their
shipping cost automatically.

Some bubble wrap and popcorn (you do mean styrofoam, right?) would
probably appear adequate protection for what looks like a heavy and
strong tool to someone who doesn't know tools. They probably wouldn't
realize the brittleness of the cast iron.

What feedback you leave should be dependent on the seller's performance
(was the packaging neglectful due to poor attitude or an honest
mistake?), your performance (was it wise not to get the insurance and
not to look into the seller's feedback beforehand?), whether you were
really damaged, and what your relative feedback "strengths" are. The
person with little feedback stands to be more affected by your single
vote.

If I fellt like I had to point out the packaging to help future buyers,
I'd give positive feedback, receive the seller's positive feedback, and
then leave a follow up and mention the packaging.

R