98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS, crosscut TS
sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently inaccurate? I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to do it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure would be
nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it won't
be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.

Toller wrote:

98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS, crosscut TS
sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently inaccurate? I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to do it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure would be
nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it won't
be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.


It's only a matter of time before Rumpty weighs in with the reasons why
a RAS is THE tool to own. From what I've heard, a 2 year old Craftsman
would be one of the worst choice in RAS you could make. That's not MY
opinion, as I've never owned one, but I've read plenty about them and it
ain't pretty.

Dave

"David" wrote in message
...
Toller wrote:

98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS, crosscut
TS sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both
directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently inaccurate?
I don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to
do something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to
do it now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure would
be nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it
won't be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.
It's only a matter of time before Rumpty weighs in with the reasons why a
RAS is THE tool to own. From what I've heard, a 2 year old Craftsman
would be one of the worst choice in RAS you could make. That's not MY
opinion, as I've never owned one, but I've read plenty about them and it
ain't pretty.

Where have you read this? Comments here over the years, or in something
"meaningful"?
The 20 year old ones are a lot cheaper, but they are probably worn.

"Toller" wrote in message
...
Where have you read this? Comments here over the years, or in something
"meaningful"?
The 20 year old ones are a lot cheaper, but they are probably worn.


Being an actual owner of a RAS for the past 20 years or so, I find it to be
very useful. I will admit it takes a tune up every so often and probably
more often than many of my other tools (TS for example) but it's really
quite easy to set up. I use it all the time to rough cut my wood. I've
ripped on it a few times but since I've gotten my TS, I do that operation
there now. I can't really talk to the recent craftsman's but mine (20
years old +) is just getting broken in. Before discounting the old ones,
check to see if they are truly worn. How? I'm not quite sure as I haven't
had to look into purchasing used but there are many here that can tell you
what to look for. Personally, I'd run it through all of it's motions
looking for any excessive play and go from there. Good Luck,
Cheers,
cc

Toller wrote:
98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS, crosscut TS
sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently inaccurate? I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to do it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure would be
nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it won't
be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.

Buy the saw. Find a copy of Jon Eakins' book on radial arm saws. Enjoy.
You'll need to tune it, check the tune every so often, and it will
probably wear out in 20 or so years, but what the hell.

I don't like them for ripping, but for wider crosscuts, they're great.

"Charlie Self" wrote

Toller wrote:
98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS, crosscut
TS
sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both
directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently inaccurate?
I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to do
it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure would
be
nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it
won't
be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.

Buy the saw. Find a copy of Jon Eakins' book on radial arm saws. Enjoy.
You'll need to tune it, check the tune every so often, and it will
probably wear out in 20 or so years, but what the hell.

I don't like them for ripping, but for wider crosscuts, they're great.

I grew up around radial arm saws. Now everybody acts like they are going to
get a disease from it or something. If you have a healthy respect for
tools. You observe some basic safety rules. You tune the thing now and then.
It should give you long service.

But if you do not respect the beast, it will bite you. I used to work in
insurance. And a lot of stupid people hurt themselves on this thing. I read
the reports.

But I have worked around these saws for about forty years. And I have all
fingers and toes. And I have built a mile or two of bookcases with them
too. Not that long ago, almost all houses were built with these things.

I don't know when the exact point was that this saw fell into disfavor. But
I woke one day to discover a tool I grew up with has now become the great
satan. Probably about the same time that good old US of A became a land of
wimps and whiners.

Hi Toller:

I've had a RAS for about 3 years. I, too, bought a 2-year-old
Craftsman that had hardly been used. I tuned it up and put a new table
on it, and it works quite well. I have found, however, that its
biggest weakness is the repeatability of the 90 degree stop. If you
leave it locked at 90 degrees, it stays there, but if you move it, it
comes back to some random angle between 89 and 91 degrees. What I tend
to do for mitered cuts is leave it at 90 degrees, and devise an angled
guide block to present the work to the blade at the appropriate angle.

Regards,
John.

"Toller" wrote in message
...
98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS, crosscut
TS
sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both
directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently inaccurate? I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to do it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure would
be
nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it won't
be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.


I have had a RAS since the early 70's and consider it an essential part of
my shop. It is set up along a wall where it is more or less built into a
long work bench. It is used mostly for rough cross cutting but I do use it
for dados and mouldings from time to time. If your cut needs to be perfect
then you must check the saw for square before using it. When it is not in
use I just push the arm out of the way and I have more work bench to use.
Like any other tool they can be dangerous if your not careful. Get the right
blade for this saw. A zero or negative hook angle blade will work best. A
positive hook angle blade will try to climb up and across your board. Pretty
scary the first time it happens.

Mike

"Toller" wrote in message
...
..

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently inaccurate? I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to do it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).


Has a couple extra gotchas up its sleeve as well. In shops which do not
practice proper cleaning - other people's - sawdust or the odd chip can
accumulate, kicking one end out from the fence, resulting in a less-than
perfect cut. Gotta keep the table and fence swept, because they don't show
the dust like iron tops on tablesaws.

The other thing is the self-feeding feature you can get with some blades,
which makes it sooo important to have good hand control and positioning. My
Monkey Wards saw has a trigger switch, so both hands are where they will be
for the cut when the power comes on. Reaching up with one hand to turn the
tool on makes me nervous about the other....

"Toller" wrote in message
...
98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS, crosscut
TS
sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both
directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently inaccurate? I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to do it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure would
be
nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it won't
be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.



I have a Delta 10" in the corner of my shop and I can't remember the last
time I used it.
There really is not anything it can do that can't be done on either my
Unisaw or 12" compound miter saw. It is very dangerous to rip wood with it.
Get a good table saw and a compound miter saw first, then you can get a
Radial Arm Saw to set in the corner and take up room.

Anyone want to buy a Delta 10" Radial Arm Saw used very little?

Kevin

"the_tool_man" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Toller:

I've had a RAS for about 3 years. I, too, bought a 2-year-old
Craftsman that had hardly been used. I tuned it up and put a new table
on it, and it works quite well. I have found, however, that its
biggest weakness is the repeatability of the 90 degree stop. If you
leave it locked at 90 degrees, it stays there, but if you move it, it
comes back to some random angle between 89 and 91 degrees. What I tend
to do for mitered cuts is leave it at 90 degrees, and devise an angled
guide block to present the work to the blade at the appropriate angle.

Regards,
John.


A RAS has it's uses, and in it's time, solved a good many problems, however
a good miter saw is cheaper and reduces RAS as the saw-of-choice by a
significant amount. That, and learning to use routers to create dados in
long boards.

I have a good (meaning old) Craftsman RAS and I haven't used it in months.
Once, I made cutoff boards to use with my circular saws, (7.5"and 5" trim),
the use of the RAS dropped to zero. Without any real in-depth thought,
about the only thing that comes to mind where I'd revert to the RAS, is if I
had the need to cut big, deep notches or cross dado's in some long deep
boards.

I've been fussin' around now for two years over a dedicated mortiser. If I
ever do get one, I'd guess that the RAS would be headed for the garage sale.

James....

Even rough-in carpenters will tend to bring their 12 miter saws to the job
site, rather than RAS's. The 12" will handle the big stuff, (2x8's ????
2x10's???) and it's lighter, easier to move around and the set up tables
designed for the big miters can have them up and running in a matter of
minutes.

Toller wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
Toller wrote:

98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS, crosscut
TS sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both
directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently inaccurate?
I don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to
do something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to
do it now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure would
be nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it
won't be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.
It's only a matter of time before Rumpty weighs in with the reasons why a
RAS is THE tool to own. From what I've heard, a 2 year old Craftsman
would be one of the worst choice in RAS you could make. That's not MY
opinion, as I've never owned one, but I've read plenty about them and it
ain't pretty.

Where have you read this? Comments here over the years, or in something
"meaningful"?
The 20 year old ones are a lot cheaper, but they are probably worn.

Depending on the model, older ones are also quite possibly much more
solidly built (but probably need to be more like 30 to 40 yr old rather
than only 20 as by the 80s a lot of the cheapening of Craftsman was
already well under way. I think a specific model number would be all
important as there were so many different Craftsmans as well.

For the general question, a _quality_ RAS is fully capable of being set
up and keeping its precision, but the inexpensive ones aren't that tool,
whether Craftsman or B&D or whomever. I use the RAS as the rough cutoff
tool when prepping material and the TS for final work of manageable
size. If the piece is long enough to make the handling on the TS
problematical, I then go either to the CMS or back to the RAS if the
piece can't be handled on the CMS. But, in general, I keep a rough cut
blade on the RAS so a final cut entails a fair amount of setup there
before it can happen, thus ensuring I rarely use it for that purpose...

In article 0lIdf.570062$xm3.83282@attbi_s21, "krg" wrote:

I have a Delta 10" in the corner of my shop and I can't remember the last
time I used it.

That's probably due at least in part to a corner being the worst possible
place in the shop to put a radial arm saw. They're *much* more useful in the
middle of a long wall.

There really is not anything it can do that can't be done on either my
Unisaw or 12" compound miter saw.

Put a dado six inches from the end of an eight-foot board?

It is very dangerous to rip wood with it.

No argument there...

Get a good table saw and a compound miter saw first, then you can get a
Radial Arm Saw to set in the corner and take up room.

Or get a good table saw and a compound miter saw first, then get a RAS to put
in the middle of a long wall where it can actually be used... :-)

Anyone want to buy a Delta 10" Radial Arm Saw used very little?

Maybe... what model, how old, how much you want, and where are ya?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Lee Michaels wrote:

I don't know when the exact point was that this saw fell into disfavor. But
I woke one day to discover a tool I grew up with has now become the great
satan. Probably about the same time that good old US of A became a land of
wimps and whiners.

Or a group that took too much for granted too often, thus couldn't get
the best out of the RAS, or a group that was in a big rush too often
and couldn't get the best out of the RAS. I can't quite see where
wimping and whining have much to do with it.

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Self" wrote

Toller wrote:
98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS,
crosscut TS
sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both
directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly
will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently inaccurate?
I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to
do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to do
it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure
would be
nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it
won't
be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.

Buy the saw. Find a copy of Jon Eakins' book on radial arm saws. Enjoy.
You'll need to tune it, check the tune every so often, and it will
probably wear out in 20 or so years, but what the hell.

I don't like them for ripping, but for wider crosscuts, they're great.

I grew up around radial arm saws. Now everybody acts like they are going
to get a disease from it or something. If you have a healthy respect for
tools. You observe some basic safety rules. You tune the thing now and
then. It should give you long service.

But if you do not respect the beast, it will bite you. I used to work in
insurance. And a lot of stupid people hurt themselves on this thing. I
read the reports.

But I have worked around these saws for about forty years. And I have all
fingers and toes. And I have built a mile or two of bookcases with them
too. Not that long ago, almost all houses were built with these things.

How do you figure? Framing has been done with circular saws for as long as I
can remember. Prior to the advent of chopsaws, trim was done with manually
operated mitre boxes. In my experience, the RAS has been a shop tool 99% of
the time.

ATP* wrote:
"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Self" wrote

Toller wrote:
98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS,
crosscut TS
sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both
directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly
will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently inaccurate?
I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to
do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to do
it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure
would be
nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it
won't
be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.

Buy the saw. Find a copy of Jon Eakins' book on radial arm saws. Enjoy.
You'll need to tune it, check the tune every so often, and it will
probably wear out in 20 or so years, but what the hell.

I don't like them for ripping, but for wider crosscuts, they're great.

I grew up around radial arm saws. Now everybody acts like they are going
to get a disease from it or something. If you have a healthy respect for
tools. You observe some basic safety rules. You tune the thing now and
then. It should give you long service.

But if you do not respect the beast, it will bite you. I used to work in
insurance. And a lot of stupid people hurt themselves on this thing. I
read the reports.

But I have worked around these saws for about forty years. And I have all
fingers and toes. And I have built a mile or two of bookcases with them
too. Not that long ago, almost all houses were built with these things.

How do you figure? Framing has been done with circular saws for as long as I
can remember. Prior to the advent of chopsaws, trim was done with manually
operated mitre boxes. In my experience, the RAS has been a shop tool 99% of
the time.

As recently as 20 years ago, many job sites had an RAS there to do the
cutting of heavier timbers, trim and similar parts. That particular
tool use in my experience goes back into at least the middle '50s when
I started bending nails. My brother, who contracted aluminum, and then
vinyl, siding always preferred one on the site.

A bitch to tune up, yes. Go out of adjustment easily, yes. But, if you
got good at it, fast to adjust back into tune, lighter than a good
table saw, and more versatile in some ways (many 10" RAS models used to
run router bits, some had flexible shafts, etc.). Even today, I think
cutting dadoes is preferable on an RAS. Even grooving is somewhat
easier, if you know what you're doing.

Circular saws came into common use with carpenters some time after
WWII. The guy I started with wouldn't have them on the site, felt they
were both inaccurate (those early ones were), and dangerous (and he was
right again). Power miter boxes changed a lot of things, after the
circular saw made the major changes in the early '50s. SCMS have
changed a lot more things. But there is still much that an RAS will do
that is more easily done than with any other power tool.

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 15:10:49 -0500, ATP* wrote:


"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Self" wrote

Toller wrote:
98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS,
crosscut TS
sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both
directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly
will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently inaccurate?
I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to
do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to do
it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure
would be
nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it
won't
be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.

Buy the saw. Find a copy of Jon Eakins' book on radial arm saws. Enjoy.
You'll need to tune it, check the tune every so often, and it will
probably wear out in 20 or so years, but what the hell.

I don't like them for ripping, but for wider crosscuts, they're great.

I grew up around radial arm saws. Now everybody acts like they are going
to get a disease from it or something. If you have a healthy respect for
tools. You observe some basic safety rules. You tune the thing now and
then. It should give you long service.

But if you do not respect the beast, it will bite you. I used to work in
insurance. And a lot of stupid people hurt themselves on this thing. I
read the reports.

But I have worked around these saws for about forty years. And I have all
fingers and toes. And I have built a mile or two of bookcases with them
too. Not that long ago, almost all houses were built with these things.

How do you figure? Framing has been done with circular saws for as long as I
can remember. Prior to the advent of chopsaws, trim was done with manually
operated mitre boxes. In my experience, the RAS has been a shop tool 99% of
the time.

Around here (Albuquerque) all the homes in my area were built with radial
arm saws. The carpenters had a RAS built into the bed of their truck.
Finish work is done with a chop saw.

D.G. Adams

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 04:56:44 +0000, Toller wrote:

98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS, crosscut TS
sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently inaccurate? I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to do it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure would be
nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it won't
be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.

I had a RAS for about 18 years. It served me well. I only did cross cuts
on it never ripping. It wore out and I replaced it with a sliding mitre
saw. A RAS is a bit fussy and needs to be tuned like any tool, but can be
made to work. One note, they need a lot of space. I had one wall in the
garage set up with side tables to support stock. The slider I use now is
on a rolling table with removable side support. It takes up a lot less
room.

D.G. Adams

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
oups.com...

ATP* wrote:
"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Self" wrote

Toller wrote:
98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS,
crosscut TS
sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both
directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly
will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently
inaccurate?
I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want
to
do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to
do
it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure
would be
nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it
won't
be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.

Buy the saw. Find a copy of Jon Eakins' book on radial arm saws.
Enjoy.
You'll need to tune it, check the tune every so often, and it will
probably wear out in 20 or so years, but what the hell.

I don't like them for ripping, but for wider crosscuts, they're great.

I grew up around radial arm saws. Now everybody acts like they are
going
to get a disease from it or something. If you have a healthy respect
for
tools. You observe some basic safety rules. You tune the thing now and
then. It should give you long service.

But if you do not respect the beast, it will bite you. I used to work
in
insurance. And a lot of stupid people hurt themselves on this thing. I
read the reports.

But I have worked around these saws for about forty years. And I have
all
fingers and toes. And I have built a mile or two of bookcases with
them
too. Not that long ago, almost all houses were built with these things.

How do you figure? Framing has been done with circular saws for as long
as I
can remember. Prior to the advent of chopsaws, trim was done with
manually
operated mitre boxes. In my experience, the RAS has been a shop tool 99%
of
the time.

As recently as 20 years ago, many job sites had an RAS there to do the
cutting of heavier timbers, trim and similar parts. That particular
tool use in my experience goes back into at least the middle '50s when
I started bending nails. My brother, who contracted aluminum, and then
vinyl, siding always preferred one on the site.

I've used them for siding, although I haven't see too many other contractors
in NY employ them in that manner.

"dgadams" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 15:10:49 -0500, ATP* wrote:


"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Self" wrote

Toller wrote:
98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS,
crosscut TS
sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both
directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly
will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently
inaccurate?
I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to
do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to
do
it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure
would be
nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it
won't
be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.

Buy the saw. Find a copy of Jon Eakins' book on radial arm saws. Enjoy.
You'll need to tune it, check the tune every so often, and it will
probably wear out in 20 or so years, but what the hell.

I don't like them for ripping, but for wider crosscuts, they're great.

I grew up around radial arm saws. Now everybody acts like they are going
to get a disease from it or something. If you have a healthy respect
for
tools. You observe some basic safety rules. You tune the thing now and
then. It should give you long service.

But if you do not respect the beast, it will bite you. I used to work
in
insurance. And a lot of stupid people hurt themselves on this thing. I
read the reports.

But I have worked around these saws for about forty years. And I have
all
fingers and toes. And I have built a mile or two of bookcases with them
too. Not that long ago, almost all houses were built with these things.

How do you figure? Framing has been done with circular saws for as long
as I
can remember. Prior to the advent of chopsaws, trim was done with
manually
operated mitre boxes. In my experience, the RAS has been a shop tool 99%
of
the time.

Around here (Albuquerque) all the homes in my area were built with radial
arm saws. The carpenters had a RAS built into the bed of their truck.
Finish work is done with a chop saw.

D.G. Adams

If they use them for framing they are wasting time. A chop saw or RAS may be
useful for repetitive cuts on 2x4's or 2x6's, but cutting rafters, joists,
etc. is most efficiently done on the stack. By the time you move the lumber
into position on the saw a good framer would have it cut. I guess if you are
employing semi-skilled labor to feed cut pieces to framers the economics of
the situation might change.

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:16:38 -0500, ATP* wrote:


"dgadams" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 15:10:49 -0500, ATP* wrote:


"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Self" wrote

Toller wrote:
98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS,
crosscut TS
sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both
directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly
will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently
inaccurate?
I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to
do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to
do
it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure
would be
nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it
won't
be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.

Buy the saw. Find a copy of Jon Eakins' book on radial arm saws. Enjoy.
You'll need to tune it, check the tune every so often, and it will
probably wear out in 20 or so years, but what the hell.

I don't like them for ripping, but for wider crosscuts, they're great.

I grew up around radial arm saws. Now everybody acts like they are going
to get a disease from it or something. If you have a healthy respect
for
tools. You observe some basic safety rules. You tune the thing now and
then. It should give you long service.

But if you do not respect the beast, it will bite you. I used to work
in
insurance. And a lot of stupid people hurt themselves on this thing. I
read the reports.

But I have worked around these saws for about forty years. And I have
all
fingers and toes. And I have built a mile or two of bookcases with them
too. Not that long ago, almost all houses were built with these things.

How do you figure? Framing has been done with circular saws for as long
as I
can remember. Prior to the advent of chopsaws, trim was done with
manually
operated mitre boxes. In my experience, the RAS has been a shop tool 99%
of
the time.

Around here (Albuquerque) all the homes in my area were built with radial
arm saws. The carpenters had a RAS built into the bed of their truck.
Finish work is done with a chop saw.

D.G. Adams

If they use them for framing they are wasting time. A chop saw or RAS may be
useful for repetitive cuts on 2x4's or 2x6's, but cutting rafters, joists,
etc. is most efficiently done on the stack. By the time you move the lumber
into position on the saw a good framer would have it cut. I guess if you are
employing semi-skilled labor to feed cut pieces to framers the economics of
the situation might change.

Yeah, Semi-skilled covers the situation just about right.

D.G. Adams

"Lee Michaels" wrote in
:

I grew up around radial arm saws. Now everybody acts like they are
going to get a disease from it or something. If you have a healthy
respect for tools. You observe some basic safety rules. You tune the
thing now and then. It should give you long service.

But if you do not respect the beast, it will bite you. I used to work
in insurance. And a lot of stupid people hurt themselves on this
thing. I read the reports.

But I have worked around these saws for about forty years. And I have
all fingers and toes. And I have built a mile or two of bookcases
with them too. Not that long ago, almost all houses were built with
these things.

I don't know when the exact point was that this saw fell into
disfavor. But I woke one day to discover a tool I grew up with has now
become the great satan. Probably about the same time that good old US
of A became a land of wimps and whiners.




I'll stand up and say I like Radial Arm Saws. I don't have room for a
RAS, nor do I really have need for one (my cuts are usually well within
the range of other saws) but I still like them.

I wonder if the compound miter saw marked the downfall of the RAS. Think
about the time you needed to cross cut a board (not plywood) bigger than
6 inches or so. That may have been a while ago, right?

Puckdropper

--
www.uncreativelabs.net

Old computers are getting to be a lost art. Here at Uncreative Labs, we
still enjoy using the old computers. Sometimes we want to see how far a
particular system can go, other times we use a stock system to remind
ourselves of what we once had.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

It is very dangerous to rip wood with it.


B.S.

Rumpty wrote:

It is very dangerous to rip wood with it.



B.S.


It took you long enough to find this thread.

Is that all you are going to contribute?

dave

When I was a kid, every construction site (back before big fences to keep
you out) featured a radial arm saw.
"ATP*" wrote in message
news

How do you figure? Framing has been done with circular saws for as long as
I
can remember. Prior to the advent of chopsaws, trim was done with manually
operated mitre boxes. In my experience, the RAS has been a shop tool 99%
of
the time.

Toller wrote:

98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS, crosscut
TS sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both
directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently inaccurate? I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to do it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure would
be nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it
won't be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.

A RAS will make that 90 degree cut without a problem, assuming it's not a
worn out piece of junk. There are three areas you need to check out.
First, is the arm physically damaged? If damaged, the saw head probably
will not roll smoothly or straight. This sort of damage would be difficult
to hide.

Second, worn bearings. This will show up as slop in the motor head in -any-
dimension. For a two year old saw, this definitely should not be an issue,
unless the bearings were never adjusted properly in the first place.

Third, slop in the positive stops. Some designs are better than others, and
sometimes the slop can be worked around. Again, for a two year old saw,
this -really- should never be a problem. If there's slop in the stops,
avoid that saw, and probably all saws of that model.

You may have to build your own table, which is not a major undertaking, as
the ones shipped with most saws are garbage.

A RAS, once set up, won't need much more maintenance than any other saw.
Maybe just an annual check to make sure everything is still square. I
personally prefer them, because I can see where the cut is going better
than a table saw. It also makes a half-decent jointer of large pieces of
wood, and I've never had a problem ripping on one.

As you can tell from the other responses in this thread, it's more of a
preference than anything else. I do nearly all of my saw work on a RAS.
--
Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer

I agree with you Rumty. Ripping on a RAS works just fine if done right. No
more dangerous that a tablesaw.
"Rumpty" wrote in message
...
It is very dangerous to rip wood with it.


B.S.

ATP* wrote:

I've used them for siding, although I haven't see too many other contractors
in NY employ them in that manner.

How recently? My brother was using one in '68 in Westchester County,
through about '79 or so when he went to CA, from whence he came to VA.
I don't know if he used one in California, but I know for sure he used
on in NY and VA. They were popular on almost all construction sites in
and around Westchester and up in Albany back in the mid-60s through '72
when I left to go to Wisconsin. From about '73 to '77 I saw many around
Orange County, Sullivan County, etc. In '77 I moved down here, and not
long after that the power miter box started to take over, though RAS
sightings were still frequent. I don't recall seeing one on a job site
in 20 years, though, here or elsewhere.

Part of that may be the fact there are now only two makes out there. In
the bad old days, B&D, Craftsman, Delta, Monkey Ward, and others had
one or more models, and 20 years ago there were several little 8 or
8-1/2" versions from Ryobi, B&D and, I think, Craftsman. Today, the
only ones I see are Craftsman and Delta. Somehow, I have it in my mind
that Emerson made a Ridgid for Home Depot for a few years, but that may
be wrong.

Of course, there are still the old, old DeWalts, the Original Saw and
the big Delta saws, but none of those are portable. IIRC, my buddy's
Delta 14" weighs about 700 pounds, which definitely takes it out of the
job site category, while another friend has the 12", lighter but not
light enough for travel.

"Puckdropper" wrote in message
reenews.net...
I wonder if the compound miter saw marked the downfall of the RAS. Think
about the time you needed to cross cut a board (not plywood) bigger than
6 inches or so. That may have been a while ago, right?

Puckdropper

If the board has been ripped to two parallel edges, twice the normal can be
done pretty easily by flipping it. Imagine the laser types would be even
better at the job, allowing a clamped, rather than fenced second cut in line
with the first..

George wrote:
"Puckdropper" wrote in message
reenews.net...
I wonder if the compound miter saw marked the downfall of the RAS. Think
about the time you needed to cross cut a board (not plywood) bigger than
6 inches or so. That may have been a while ago, right?

Puckdropper

If the board has been ripped to two parallel edges, twice the normal can be
done pretty easily by flipping it. Imagine the laser types would be even
better at the job, allowing a clamped, rather than fenced second cut in line
with the first..

Flipping works with the RAS, too. Consider the 14" Delta: 29" crosscut
at 90 degs. Flip and you've got 56". Enough for most of us, but you
sure won't cart that tool with you.

"dgadams" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:16:38 -0500, ATP* wrote:
Around here (Albuquerque) all the homes in my area were built with
radial
arm saws. The carpenters had a RAS built into the bed of their truck.
Finish work is done with a chop saw.

D.G. Adams

If they use them for framing they are wasting time. A chop saw or RAS may
be
useful for repetitive cuts on 2x4's or 2x6's, but cutting rafters,
joists,
etc. is most efficiently done on the stack. By the time you move the
lumber
into position on the saw a good framer would have it cut. I guess if you
are
employing semi-skilled labor to feed cut pieces to framers the economics
of
the situation might change.

Yeah, Semi-skilled covers the situation just about right.

D.G. Adams


I'm not in the habit necessarily of driving around town looking at what
contractor's are using (although that is usually a good indication of what
works!) and I'm in an area that has little construction going on (Corrales)
but it seems what I have seen, is most are using the SCMS's. I still
agree that a RAS has it's place and is still a versatile tool. And you are
right, Semi-skilled....to say the least!
Cheers,
cc

ATP* wrote:
"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Self" wrote

Toller wrote:

98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS,
crosscut TS
sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both
directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly
will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently inaccurate?
I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to
do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to do
it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure
would be
nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it
won't
be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.

Buy the saw. Find a copy of Jon Eakins' book on radial arm saws. Enjoy.
You'll need to tune it, check the tune every so often, and it will
probably wear out in 20 or so years, but what the hell.

I don't like them for ripping, but for wider crosscuts, they're great.


I grew up around radial arm saws. Now everybody acts like they are going
to get a disease from it or something. If you have a healthy respect for
tools. You observe some basic safety rules. You tune the thing now and
then. It should give you long service.

But if you do not respect the beast, it will bite you. I used to work in
insurance. And a lot of stupid people hurt themselves on this thing. I
read the reports.

But I have worked around these saws for about forty years. And I have all
fingers and toes. And I have built a mile or two of bookcases with them
too. Not that long ago, almost all houses were built with these things.


How do you figure? Framing has been done with circular saws for as long as I
can remember. Prior to the advent of chopsaws, trim was done with manually
operated mitre boxes. In my experience, the RAS has been a shop tool 99% of
the time.



My 1974 house was definitely built using a large RAS (NOT a Craftsman).
I visited the jobsite daily and witnessed it personally. The contractor
had it mounted on a small trailer.

-jj

--
Remove BOB to email me

Toller wrote:

....

the subject question, I never knew they were _so_ unpopular until
reading the wreck...seems to me there's a much higher perception of the
users here of the opinion than I observe in the "real" world...

That they're not as popular as a TS or the CMS or chopsaw has more to do
w/ cost, size and general purpose of the tool for the type of user who
typically is seen here rather than anything else...

imo, ymmv, $0.02, etc., ...

Duane Bozarth wrote:

the subject question, I never knew they were _so_ unpopular until
reading the wreck...seems to me there's a much higher perception of the
users here of the opinion than I observe in the "real" world...


Same here...

dgadams wrote:
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:16:38 -0500, ATP* wrote:


"dgadams" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 15:10:49 -0500, ATP* wrote:


"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Self" wrote

Toller wrote:

98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS,
crosscut TS
sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both
directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly
will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently
inaccurate?
I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to
do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to
do
it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure
would be
nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it
won't
be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.

Buy the saw. Find a copy of Jon Eakins' book on radial arm saws. Enjoy.
You'll need to tune it, check the tune every so often, and it will
probably wear out in 20 or so years, but what the hell.

I don't like them for ripping, but for wider crosscuts, they're great.


I grew up around radial arm saws. Now everybody acts like they are going
to get a disease from it or something. If you have a healthy respect
for
tools. You observe some basic safety rules. You tune the thing now and
then. It should give you long service.

But if you do not respect the beast, it will bite you. I used to work
in
insurance. And a lot of stupid people hurt themselves on this thing. I
read the reports.

But I have worked around these saws for about forty years. And I have
all
fingers and toes. And I have built a mile or two of bookcases with them
too. Not that long ago, almost all houses were built with these things.


How do you figure? Framing has been done with circular saws for as long
as I
can remember. Prior to the advent of chopsaws, trim was done with
manually
operated mitre boxes. In my experience, the RAS has been a shop tool 99%
of
the time.

Around here (Albuquerque) all the homes in my area were built with radial
arm saws. The carpenters had a RAS built into the bed of their truck.
Finish work is done with a chop saw.

D.G. Adams

If they use them for framing they are wasting time. A chop saw or RAS may be
useful for repetitive cuts on 2x4's or 2x6's, but cutting rafters, joists,
etc. is most efficiently done on the stack. By the time you move the lumber
into position on the saw a good framer would have it cut. I guess if you are
employing semi-skilled labor to feed cut pieces to framers the economics of
the situation might change.


Yeah, Semi-skilled covers the situation just about right.

D.G. Adams


Actually, "simian-skilled" might be more accurate these days.

--
Remove BOB to email me

Somehow, I have it in my mind
that Emerson made a Ridgid for Home Depot for a few years, but that may
be wrong.

You are correct. They did. I recall seeing them in the stores as recently
as last year but it appears the Borg no longer stocks a Ridgid RAS. The
only two RAS models they sell now are Deltas and those are available only
through their catalog or online, not in the stores.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com

I worked for Sears during the 50's - 70's. While I didn't keep any exact it
records it seemed to me that the radial arm saws showed up in shop for
repair 20 or more times to maybe 1 for table saws. The table saws hardly
ever came in for repair. It seemed to me as the brush/commuter type motors
just didn't hack it compared to the induction type as most repairs seemed to
be burned out armatures and field coils which are very expensive repairs.

Think I'll stick with my TS, RM~

Rob Mills wrote:

I worked for Sears during the 50's - 70's. While I didn't keep any exact it
records it seemed to me that the radial arm saws showed up in shop for
repair 20 or more times to maybe 1 for table saws. The table saws hardly
ever came in for repair. It seemed to me as the brush/commuter type motors
just didn't hack it compared to the induction type as most repairs seemed to
be burned out armatures and field coils which are very expensive repairs.

Think I'll stick with my TS, RM~


Careful, Rob, Rumpty's gonna go ballastic!

Dave

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
ups.com...

ATP* wrote:

I've used them for siding, although I haven't see too many other
contractors
in NY employ them in that manner.

How recently? My brother was using one in '68 in Westchester County,
through about '79 or so when he went to CA, from whence he came to VA.
I don't know if he used one in California, but I know for sure he used
on in NY and VA. They were popular on almost all construction sites in
and around Westchester and up in Albany back in the mid-60s through '72
when I left to go to Wisconsin. From about '73 to '77 I saw many around
Orange County, Sullivan County, etc. In '77 I moved down here, and not
long after that the power miter box started to take over, though RAS
sightings were still frequent. I don't recall seeing one on a job site
in 20 years, though, here or elsewhere.

Part of that may be the fact there are now only two makes out there. In
the bad old days, B&D, Craftsman, Delta, Monkey Ward, and others had
one or more models, and 20 years ago there were several little 8 or
8-1/2" versions from Ryobi, B&D and, I think, Craftsman. Today, the
only ones I see are Craftsman and Delta. Somehow, I have it in my mind
that Emerson made a Ridgid for Home Depot for a few years, but that may
be wrong.

Of course, there are still the old, old DeWalts, the Original Saw and
the big Delta saws, but none of those are portable. IIRC, my buddy's
Delta 14" weighs about 700 pounds, which definitely takes it out of the
job site category, while another friend has the 12", lighter but not
light enough for travel.

I started working part time about 1971. Framers here (LI) tended to work
light. Everybody didn't own a truck or an SUV in the 1970's and individual
carpenters would usually arrive in a car. Contractors had trucks but there
was usually no room for a RAS. In most cases a tool like that would not be
left on an insecure jobsite anyway. IIRC Rockwell came out with a chopsaw
way back, which my boss had, although it was probably out of reach for many.
Carpenters were expected to be able to make pretty precise cuts on the site
with a circular saw. Later, in the remodeling business, I bought one of
those Ryobi's, thinking it would be a great timesaver, but with the
exception of cutting soffits, it was a disappointment. The best carpenters
I've seen come to the job with a few basic tools and still run circles
around anybody else. Those were usually the old time union trained guys.

My grandfather had a RAS and used it often for crosscuts, dados, lap
joints, miters, etc.

If I could fit a Delta or Rockwell ten incher in my "apartment
workshop" I would...

Layne

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 04:56:44 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

98% of the crosscutting I do (depending on the size with my CMS, crosscut TS
sled, or with a guide and a circular saw) is 90 degrees in both directions.

I understand that RAS can be fussy to set up, but if set up properly will
they do decent 90 degree cuts? Or are they just inherently inaccurate? I
don't mind spending an extra 10 minutes on the rare occasion I want to do
something more exotic; especially since it would take much longer to do it
now (at least on stuff bigger than my CMS).

I have my eye on a 2 year old craftsman that was barely used. Sure would be
nice to be able to do 16" crosscuts without a lot of fuss; but if it won't
be accurate, then it would just be a waste of room and money.