Local dealer is selling "factory refurbished" Delta Unisaws with the
50" commercial Beisemeyer Fences, model 36-L31X-BC50 for $1299.
They look like new, but only have a 6 month warranty.

Is the Unisaw still worth having, or would a Grizzly 1023SL be a
better choice. Although I own many Delta tools, I haven't been very
happy with the last few Delta products or their customer (non) service
as of late.

Are the handwheels durable and heavy enough to give the mech a nice
feel? Or have they cheaped out and gone to aluminum or (shudder)
plastic handwheels? Are the trunnions the same as they used to be?
Do they still use that overpriced proprietary motor mount?

Anyone bought one of these, any caveats?

Thanks,


Greg G.

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 02:44:52 -0400, Greg wrote:


Local dealer is selling "factory refurbished" Delta Unisaws with the
50" commercial Beisemeyer Fences, model 36-L31X-BC50 for $1299.
They look like new, but only have a 6 month warranty.




Is the Unisaw still worth having,

of course



or would a Grizzly 1023SL be a
better choice.

IMHO no.


Although I own many Delta tools, I haven't been very
happy with the last few Delta products or their customer (non) service
as of late.


Been through a lot with the transition after the B & D purchase last
October.


Are the handwheels durable and heavy enough to give the mech a nice
feel? Or have they cheaped out and gone to aluminum or (shudder)
plastic handwheels? Are the trunnions the same as they used to be?
Do they still use that overpriced proprietary motor mount?


Handwheels are cast iron with heavy machined steel tapered handle

Cast iron Trunion design has not changed since the late 1940's except
for adding stock in areas to minimize breakage during shipment.

Same motor mount.


Anyone bought one of these, any caveats?

Thanks,


Greg G.

Frank Boettcher said:

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 02:44:52 -0400, Greg wrote:

Is the Unisaw still worth having,

of course

Been through a lot with the transition after the B & D purchase last
October.

You don't happen to work for Delta/PC? Tell the truth now... ;-)



Greg G.

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:38:47 -0400, Greg wrote:

Frank Boettcher said:

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 02:44:52 -0400, Greg wrote:

Is the Unisaw still worth having,

of course

Been through a lot with the transition after the B & D purchase last
October.

You don't happen to work for Delta/PC? Tell the truth now... ;-)



Greg G.


Used to. Retired in March. That is the truth.

My recommendations are based on what I know goes into the saw. Also
based on personal experience that gave me a good view of the processes
used to manufacture chinese based woodworking machinery. The
processes and the reality of their statistical capability.

If you can get a Unisaw at a reasonable price, even refurbished, it is
normally going to be better than a chinese alternative. Most
refurbished Unisaws do not come from dissatisfied customers, but as a
result of minor freight damage, warehouse damage or distributor
resets.

And I would hurry. Trend indicates that at sometime in the future,
all woodworking machinery will come from China. Very sad in IMHO.

Frank

Frank Boettcher said:

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:38:47 -0400, Greg wrote:

You don't happen to work for Delta/PC? Tell the truth now... ;-)

Used to. Retired in March. That is the truth.

I thought so... ;-)
That's OK, however. I have a shop full of Delta stuff - along with a
few Jet, and a couple Dewalt pieces. The blue Borg used to carry
Delta, and I bought a fair amount of it there - and at Highland
Hardware. But they have begun to push some horrid house branded stuff
called Tradesman - what a bunch of Bad Chinese Crappola!

My recommendations are based on what I know goes into the saw. Also
based on personal experience that gave me a good view of the processes
used to manufacture chinese based woodworking machinery. The
processes and the reality of their statistical capability.

It IS the classic woodworkers saw. I just fear that Delta is riding
more on their reputation rather than quality these days...
They are most certainly not the only company doing this - it's a tough
marketplace - but I hate to see it happen. Damned bean-counters and
Wall Street driven decision makers are ruining this country. Not to
mention idiot consumers who can't judge quality and shop only for
price.

If you can get a Unisaw at a reasonable price, even refurbished, it is
normally going to be better than a chinese alternative. Most
refurbished Unisaws do not come from dissatisfied customers, but as a
result of minor freight damage, warehouse damage or distributor
resets.

That's what the vendor claimed - Not returned customer units, but
defunct dealer returns. But aren't the newer tables cast in China?

And I would hurry. Trend indicates that at sometime in the future,
all woodworking machinery will come from China. Very sad in IMHO.

Sadly, it's looking that way...
We are losing it to so many other countries.
And when we lose all of our manufacturing capabilities, we lose the
ability to defend our way of life.

JMHO,


Greg G.

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 11:58:27 -0400, Greg wrote:

Frank Boettcher said:

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:38:47 -0400, Greg wrote:

You don't happen to work for Delta/PC? Tell the truth now... ;-)

Used to. Retired in March. That is the truth.

I thought so... ;-)
That's OK, however. I have a shop full of Delta stuff - along with a
few Jet, and a couple Dewalt pieces. The blue Borg used to carry
Delta, and I bought a fair amount of it there - and at Highland
Hardware. But they have begun to push some horrid house branded stuff
called Tradesman - what a bunch of Bad Chinese Crappola!

My recommendations are based on what I know goes into the saw. Also
based on personal experience that gave me a good view of the processes
used to manufacture chinese based woodworking machinery. The
processes and the reality of their statistical capability.

It IS the classic woodworkers saw. I just fear that Delta is riding
more on their reputation rather than quality these days...
They are most certainly not the only company doing this - it's a tough
marketplace - but I hate to see it happen. Damned bean-counters and
Wall Street driven decision makers are ruining this country. Not to
mention idiot consumers who can't judge quality and shop only for
price.

If you can get a Unisaw at a reasonable price, even refurbished, it is
normally going to be better than a chinese alternative. Most
refurbished Unisaws do not come from dissatisfied customers, but as a
result of minor freight damage, warehouse damage or distributor
resets.

That's what the vendor claimed - Not returned customer units, but
defunct dealer returns. But aren't the newer tables cast in China?


No. The table will either be from a foundry in Swee****er, TN
machined by the fine people in Tupelo, MS, or from a foundry in
Waupaca, WI, machined by a subcontractor in North Alabama. Depending
on the time frame of the machines original manufacture and whether the
table was replaced.

And I would hurry. Trend indicates that at sometime in the future,
all woodworking machinery will come from China. Very sad in IMHO.

Sadly, it's looking that way...
We are losing it to so many other countries.
And when we lose all of our manufacturing capabilities, we lose the
ability to defend our way of life.

JMHO,


Greg G.

Fwiw, it would be in error to presume China cannot or does not produce a quality product. It would also be in error to presume all product that comes from China is quality. Same for Taiwan, where most (all?) cabinet saws are at least in some part now made.

It’s hard to talk about “made in …” without getting into politics. Anyone that watches the global political and economic landscape is aware there is a serious problem with China’s robust and stable economy, global distribution network, securing deep-water shipping port around the world, her buying of gold on the international monetary market, and our trade deficit with that country. It affects not only our nat’l security, but global security as well. China wants to take over the world and she is now well placed to do so economically, and thus improving her chances militarily.

Personally, I boycott anything marked “made in China”, been doing so for most of two decades, but it’s getting harder and harder to get around.

joe2 wrote:

Personally, I boycott anything marked “made in China”, been doing so
for most of two decades, but it’s getting harder and harder to get
around.

About a year ago we needed a toaster. They range in price from $8.00 to
$250. The only one not made in China was the $250 Dualit from England. I
could not justify the extra $200 so I had no other choice.

--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

I've been looking to upgrade my TS for awhile now. I've been eyeing
the 1023S for awhile, so when I saw your post asking about the Unisaw
for $1299, my first thought was no, but I don't have experience with
either to advise from actual use. Although, I did read some reviews
from some very impressed people on Amazon regarding the 1023S, so I
would have a hard time spending an extra $400 (or $375 for the SL) on
a refurbished Unisaw.

Many of the pros here could probably justify the extra $400, but for my
budding shop I'd rather put that extra $$ on a Grizzly 14" band saw.

There's delivery charges to consider as well. The local Unisaw dealer
won't charge you freight.

JMHO

Jeff

I used the older 70's vintage Unisaws in college and at a friend's shop.
When I started shopping to upgrade to a cabinet saw 4-5 years ago I was
pretty much predisposed to the Unisaw. After looking at newer Unisaws I
decided to expand my search. They weren't what they used to be and frankly
they haven't improved since (Handwheel brake nuts for example).

My final decision did come down to Unisaw, Grizzly 1023S and the Jets. The
1023 won based on value and the fact it reminded me so much of the earlier
Unisaws. This included both visual and tactile impressions (smooth
handwheels, tabletop machining/flatness, specifications, sound, vibration,
etc.) I do believe the Unisaw is still a fine machine but I cannot
personally justify the extra hundreds of dollars for the brand name. My
machine has served me well for four years, requires very little adjustment,
and Grizzly delivery support is great. I have never had to use their
product support.

So There!
RonB

BTW - Grizzly will probably provide the names of up to two recent customers,
in your area, who have made recent purchases of a 1023 (and who have agreed
to talk to folks like you). This service, plus a trip to the Springfield
store, won me over.

RonB said:

decided to expand my search. They weren't what they used to be and frankly
they haven't improved since (Handwheel brake nuts for example).

I hear ya - that funky T thing is a departure from the nice old knobs.

My final decision did come down to Unisaw, Grizzly 1023S and the Jets. The
1023 won based on value and the fact it reminded me so much of the earlier
Unisaws. This included both visual and tactile impressions (smooth
handwheels, tabletop machining/flatness, specifications, sound, vibration,
etc.) I do believe the Unisaw is still a fine machine but I cannot
personally justify the extra hundreds of dollars for the brand name. My
machine has served me well for four years, requires very little adjustment,
and Grizzly delivery support is great. I have never had to use their
product support.

So There!
RonB

I hear you again! I've always wanted a Unisaw, but when it comes to
laying out cold, hard cash - they worry me these days. Still, I
prefer to buy American products and support my neighbors whenever
possible - but I am tiring of being burned by that desire.
It's getting to the point where when I see Made in USA, it's worse
garbage than the Chinese crap - which is steadily improving.

I live in the SE, and there are no Grizzly dealers. Makes it more
difficult to access their products. But the 1023 looks like a very
nice machine.



Greg G.

I have a Unisaw and I love it, but problems such as a warped extension
table and slightly warped left wing have left me wondering if I would
ever purchase another Delta product. My DJ-20 joiner has a small pit in
the outfeed table. Not enough to take it back, but the quality
assurance just wasn't there. I'm not sure you'd be any better off with
a Grizzly. I've heard horor stories from many fellow woodworkers with
various brands of tools, and I'm wondering if buying tools is getting
to be a crap shoot. The folks who seem to get it right, in my opinion,
these days are the Canadians. The quality of tools from Canada is to me
impressive. Just my opinion.

Don

"rickluce" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm not sure you'd be any better off with
a Grizzly. I've heard horor stories from many fellow woodworkers with
various brands of tools, and I'm wondering if buying tools is getting
to be a crap shoot.

I'm a happy 1023 owner. No horror story. Works great.

-j

rickluce said:

I have a Unisaw and I love it, but problems such as a warped extension
table and slightly warped left wing have left me wondering if I would
ever purchase another Delta product. My DJ-20 joiner has a small pit in
the outfeed table. Not enough to take it back, but the quality
assurance just wasn't there. I'm not sure you'd be any better off with
a Grizzly. I've heard horor stories from many fellow woodworkers with
various brands of tools, and I'm wondering if buying tools is getting
to be a crap shoot. The folks who seem to get it right, in my opinion,
these days are the Canadians. The quality of tools from Canada is to me
impressive. Just my opinion.

Don

I have a Delta X jointer - I was lucky, but many had problems with
warped fences. My contractor saw had a table that was so warped, it
left a wave on the end of a cut board. This was years ago, and the
first tool I purchased - so it took me a while to figure out what was
wrong. I ended up grinding the thing by hand to true it up. They do
seem to have a problem with rushing green castings into production too
soon. And the customer service has really deteriorated. They used to
respond quickly to warranty parts replacements, but the last time I
called for a warped bandsaw wheel on a brand new 14" Delta, I never
got the parts. Called again, still never got the part. I bent the
damned thing true myself in order to use it, and just gave up on them.

The same dealer also carries General. Their left tilt contractor saws
and the 650s are good saws but I hear bad things about their support
and manuals. And I'm not too certain about the availability of
accessories like snap-in splitters and zero clearance inserts. Their
fence is a nice Canadian made Beis clone.

I hear great things about the 1023SLX Grizzly, but really horrible
stories about the delivery process. Much down time and broken/damaged
parts from freight handlers. They DO seem to respond quickly with new
parts, no questions asked. And the massive carriage and handwheels
action on the 1023 is impressive. But I've never cut wood on one...

I bought the new Porter Cable 2 1/4 HP router kit when it first came
out, and what a pile-o-crap full of Chinese parts. Shoulda gotten an
old, used 690...

Manufacturing, Products and Support are failing miserably in this
country. If something isn't done - like killing off some bean
counters and greedy Wall Street investors, we are going to become a
real third rate country. We've already lost the number one spot.

FWIW,


Greg G.

"Greg G." wrote in message
...

I hear great things about the 1023SLX Grizzly, but really horrible
stories about the delivery process. Much down time and broken/damaged
parts from freight handlers.

When have you heard this? I can't recall anything but good stories about
their deliveries in the past couple of years.

j

"mogura" wrote in message
t...

"Greg G." wrote in message
...

I hear great things about the 1023SLX Grizzly, but really horrible
stories about the delivery process. Much down time and broken/damaged
parts from freight handlers.

When have you heard this? I can't recall anything but good stories about
their deliveries in the past couple of years.

Deliveries of wrecked equipment from Grizzly was a serious problem a few
years ago.

Greg writes:

Is the Unisaw still worth having, or would a Grizzly 1023SL be a
better choice. Although I own many Delta tools, I haven't been very
happy with the last few Delta products or their customer (non) service
as of late.

I bought a refurbished Unisaw in 2002. The serial number indicated that
it was built in 1999. I would have thought it was brand new if I didn't
know it was a refurb.

In my case, it included the magnetic switch that usually costs several
hundred extra on a new one.

The 1999 models still had the metal cover over the motor.

The quality of the fit and finish is very good. I like to support made in
the USA when possible and it makes sense. (I'll buy the $3 chinese tool
for a one-time project instead of the USA made one that costs $12.)

Brian Elfert

If it helps, the Grizzly is made in Taiwan, the Unisaw is now partly made in Taiwan. The Unisaw still uses traditional non-metric hardware, don’t know about the Grizzly.

The cost of a NEW Unisaw 10-in, 3hp, with a 50-in Biesemeyer commercial fence system is only $100 to $200 (s/h included) more than the refirb’d unit mentioned above. I opted for the Delta product (new) because of the Biesemeyer fence, an upgraded Grizzly fence meant paying extra for a 2nd fence and getting stuck with one I didn’t want or need. Didn’t/don’t have a clue what I’m doing, made the decision on the Biesemeyer fence based on numerous reviews and user comments. Maybe I’ll feel differently about the Biesemeyer commercial fence later down the road, but for now I’m still tickled pink.

joe2 said:


If it helps, the Grizzly is made in Taiwan, the Unisaw is now partly
made in Taiwan. The Unisaw still uses traditional non-metric hardware,
don’t know about the Grizzly.

Almost everything cast-iron comes from China these days. :-\
Metric/Imperial, who cares - as long as they're not mixed up
on the same machine (damned Fords).

The cost of a NEW Unisaw 10-in, 3hp, with a 50-in Biesemeyer commercial
fence system is only $100 to $200 (s/h included) more than the refirb’d

I don't know where you are getting your prices, but I've never seen a
Unisaw w/50" Beis and tableboard for less than $1699 w/ local pickup.
These are going for $1249. Where are you getting that price in 2005
dollars?



Greg G.

I hope we are talking about the same saw… I just got my Unisaw last month, model 36-L3B. It is 10-in, 3hp, extended table, Biesemeyer 50-in commercial fence, Delta’s mobile base, $1499. Actually, delivery wasn’t totally free because there was a $13.00 “booking” fee.

I just looked at the website, price has jumped $50 ($1549), maybe adjustments for changing fuel costs?!?

http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPR...ARTNUM=36-830A

I'm new to the Unisaw. Are we on the same page with these Unisaws?

joe2 said:

I hope we are talking about the same saw… I just got my Unisaw last
month, model 36-L3B. It is 10-in, 3hp, extended table, Biesemeyer
50-in commercial fence, Delta’s mobile base, $1499. Actually, delivery
wasn’t totally free because there was a $13.00 “booking” fee.

I just looked at the website, price has jumped $50 ($1549), maybe
adjustments for changing fuel costs?!?

http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPR...ARTNUM=36-830A

I'm new to the Unisaw. Are we on the same page with these Unisaws?

Well, based on the model numbers, those are old models -
Not that it matters to anyone but the marketing department...
Pretty good prices, however, even if they are old stock.
Newer ain't necessarily better...


Greg G.

I opted for the Delta product (new) because of the Biesemeyer fence, an
upgraded
Grizzly fence meant paying extra for a 2nd fence and getting stuck with
one I didn't
want or need.

Joe:
I really am not trying to pull your chain. However, I have seen comments
and confusion over the years regarding the need to replace the 1023S fence
with the upgraded Shop Fox or a Bies. The 1023S comes standard with the
Shop Fox Classic fence which is a pretty close Biesmemeyer knock-off. I
have this saw/fence combination on my 1023S. When I purchased my machine
Griz was also touting the 1023Z and variants that had the Shop Fox
"Precision" fence. In my opinion, and apparently others, the "Precision"
fence isn't necessarily a step up - even though it costs more. When we
visited the Springfield store just prior to my purchase (four years ago) I
mentioned some reports I had read regarding some "Precision" problems to our
sales rep. He diplomatically said that his machine had the "Classic" fence
and he would certainly buy it again. The "Precision" fence was truly as
smooth as glass in the store; but apparently it has several moving parts and
I have seen reports of clearance and adjustment issues (which might be
corrected by now).

The old "Classic" is built like a fire plug (or a Bies) and has required
very little adjustment over the years. I believe Griz is marketing an
aluminum version of the Classic now but I know nothing about it. My old
iron fence is heavy, smooth, accurate and easy to use.

RonB

That would be me...confused / ignorant.

Ron-

Not a problem. Thanks for the input. I’m new to the world of quality table saws. All I had to go on were reviews, reports, forum threads; mostly stuff I guess should be considered ‘opinions’. That I would/could get something wrong is something I expected. Ironically, the neighbor across the street bought a Grizzly a couple weeks before me and didn’t say anything at the time. Now being able to see and compare a Griz and a Uni, I’d have no problem at all with owning either of them. Without doing a microscopic comparison, my initial impression is the Griz might be a better value, from a consumer’s perspective. Nonetheless, I still get tool-tingle from that Biesemeyer frence!

Greg,
I bought a factory reconditioned Unisaw a couple of years ago from
Redmond Machinery in Atlanta. My story is long and I won't repeat it
here. If you want to read it, cut & past this:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.w...53276751add9d8

Bottom line is that I've been very pleased with my saw, and the way
Redmond Machinery took care of me. I have found NOTHING different from
a brand-new never-used saw. I'd buy a factory reconditioned saw again
in a heartbeat.

DonkeyHody
"Even an old blind hog finds an acorn every now and then."


Greg G. wrote:
Local dealer is selling "factory refurbished" Delta Unisaws with the
50" commercial Beisemeyer Fences, model 36-L31X-BC50 for $1299.
They look like new, but only have a 6 month warranty.

Is the Unisaw still worth having, or would a Grizzly 1023SL be a
better choice. Although I own many Delta tools, I haven't been very
happy with the last few Delta products or their customer (non) service
as of late.

Are the handwheels durable and heavy enough to give the mech a nice
feel? Or have they cheaped out and gone to aluminum or (shudder)
plastic handwheels? Are the trunnions the same as they used to be?
Do they still use that overpriced proprietary motor mount?

Anyone bought one of these, any caveats?

Thanks,


Greg G.

DonkeyHody said:

Greg,
I bought a factory reconditioned Unisaw a couple of years ago from
Redmond Machinery in Atlanta. My story is long and I won't repeat it
here.

That's the dealer that is local to me... ;-)
Thanks for the info - I've only bought some small things from them,
and wandered around their scrap yard a bit. It's an interesting place
if you like wood and metal working machinery from the early 1900s.



Greg G.

That would be the way to do it, if you had the time. Get a bargain on a
vintage unisaw, have the top flatground, buy a modern motor and link
belts and off you go. The first thing I was disapointed with when I
received my unisaw a couple of years ago was the thickness, or thiness,
of the base sheetmetal. I haven't looked at older unisaws, but they
must be thicker.

rickluce said:

That would be the way to do it, if you had the time. Get a bargain on a
vintage unisaw, have the top flatground, buy a modern motor and link
belts and off you go. The first thing I was disapointed with when I
received my unisaw a couple of years ago was the thickness, or thiness,
of the base sheetmetal. I haven't looked at older unisaws, but they
must be thicker.

It would be, if you could FIND one. In these parts, I can't find much
of anything other than used, broken Ryobi and B & D tools.
And the price Redmond gets for a "vintage" Unisaw is pretty steep.
Here is an example - $750 - ouch!
http://www.redmond-machinery.com/ima...a/P1010020.JPG

Whole lot-o-work to get this usable...

I'm not really into restoring old machinery at this point, although I
did restore old cars in my youth. And the stories of the widow
selling off the "old saw" in the basement for $300 just ain't
happening - at least not for me.


Greg G.

"Greg G." wrote in message
...

Is the Unisaw still worth having, or would a Grizzly 1023SL be a
better choice. Although I own many Delta tools, I haven't been very
happy with the last few Delta products or their customer (non) service
as of late.

Well Delta has had a problem with Unisaws in the last 7 or 8 years. The
factory was blaming the shippers and apparently they have finally admitted
to improper assembly methods. Trunions have been breaking at what I would
call an alarming rate. If the saw looks like new you have ask yourself why
it had to be refurbished as it should have lasted many many years. I would
say it is a good bet that the trunion had to be replaced. Something to
thhink about.

Leon said:


"Greg G." wrote in message
.. .

Is the Unisaw still worth having, or would a Grizzly 1023SL be a
better choice. Although I own many Delta tools, I haven't been very
happy with the last few Delta products or their customer (non) service
as of late.

Well Delta has had a problem with Unisaws in the last 7 or 8 years. The
factory was blaming the shippers and apparently they have finally admitted
to improper assembly methods. Trunions have been breaking at what I would
call an alarming rate. If the saw looks like new you have ask yourself why
it had to be refurbished as it should have lasted many many years. I would
say it is a good bet that the trunion had to be replaced. Something to
thhink about.

I have heard the same thing. When I asked the salesman about it, he
denied there was a problem and then stalked off in a huff...

Apparently, however, if you do get an unbroken one, it doesn't
subsequently break in service. But it IS worrysome... Is there a
crack lurking in there - cast iron is funny like that...

I would say, however, that dropping the saw on it's side - with a huge
motor attached - would constitute undue and abnormal stress.


Greg G.

"Greg G." wrote in message

I have heard the same thing. When I asked the salesman about it, he
denied there was a problem and then stalked off in a huff...

Old news (there's a contradiction in terms for you) ... IIRC, that problem,
not all that prevalent in the first place considering the number of units
sold, was addressed/solved at last two or three years ago.

Certainly not something to kill a deal unless one is looking for an excuse,
IMO.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/05

Swingman said:

"Greg G." wrote in message

I have heard the same thing. When I asked the salesman about it, he
denied there was a problem and then stalked off in a huff...

Old news (there's a contradiction in terms for you) ... IIRC, that problem,
not all that prevalent in the first place considering the number of units
sold, was addressed/solved at last two or three years ago.

This was last year - the last time I was caught drooling over a new
saw...

Being a local dealer, however, I would think the problem of subsequent
shipping damage would rest squarely on the purchasers shoulders.

Certainly not something to kill a deal unless one is looking for an excuse,
IMO.

My problem at this point would be how to get the darned thing off my
truck with only two helpers - one of them being a large, but wimpy,
friend and the other being SWMBO. Partial disassembly on the pallet
would help - but I'm not sure. They claim a weight of ~450 pounds,
but from the horror stories I've read concerning moving heavy saws...

I AM lucky to have a drive the runs right up to the door, however.
No 250' treks across a wet lawn, down a hill, and around a curving
staircase.


Greg G.

"Greg G." wrote in message
...
Swingman said:

"Greg G." wrote in message

I have heard the same thing. When I asked the salesman about it, he
denied there was a problem and then stalked off in a huff...

Old news (there's a contradiction in terms for you) ... IIRC, that
problem,
not all that prevalent in the first place considering the number of units
sold, was addressed/solved at last two or three years ago.

This was last year - the last time I was caught drooling over a new
saw...

Being a local dealer, however, I would think the problem of subsequent
shipping damage would rest squarely on the purchasers shoulders.

Certainly not something to kill a deal unless one is looking for an
excuse,
IMO.

My problem at this point would be how to get the darned thing off my
truck with only two helpers - one of them being a large, but wimpy,
friend and the other being SWMBO. Partial disassembly on the pallet
would help - but I'm not sure. They claim a weight of ~450 pounds,
but from the horror stories I've read concerning moving heavy saws...

I AM lucky to have a drive the runs right up to the door, however.
No 250' treks across a wet lawn, down a hill, and around a curving
staircase.

When I bought my 5HP Left Tilt Uni (500+ pounds) several years ago - I
brought it home on my utility trailer behind my van - Woodcraft warned me
to be careful and not drop it or bounce in the trailer (hit bumps on the
road et al ) as it could damage the trunion (when I unpacked it and set it
up there was a large very firm block of foam that the motor was resting on -
I kept this in case I ever have to move it) - When I got home I made a ramp
of 2x10 and slid it down to a moving dolly and then into the garage - the
key is taking it slow and easy - don't rush and you could even unload it by
yourself - I had a couple of piano movers take a full size upright down a
set of steep stairs by themselves and it weighs more than the Uni - remember
your physics class and use the correct items to make it easier and safer.

BB

"Greg G." wrote in message
...

I have heard the same thing. When I asked the salesman about it, he
denied there was a problem and then stalked off in a huff...

When I was looking at cabinet saws about 6 years ago I compared a Unisaw and
a Jet side by side. The salesman walked over and told me not to try to
raise or tilt the blade on the Unisaw. The trunion was broken. That was the
first time I had heard of that problem but have 8 or 9 times since. Delta
blamed the trucking companies and yet Grizzly, Jet, Powermatic, and others
were not having this problem. I suppose you could say the truckers were
targeting Unisaws. LOL. I think 2 or 3 years ago Delta finally admitted
that the trunions were not being properly torqued during assembly at the
factory.


Apparently, however, if you do get an unbroken one, it doesn't
subsequently break in service. But it IS worrysome... Is there a
crack lurking in there - cast iron is funny like that...

That is the way I under stand it. The trip was just too hard on the
Unisaws.

I would say, however, that dropping the saw on it's side - with a huge
motor attached - would constitute undue and abnormal stress.

Absolutely, Unfortunately the Deltas were not being treated that badly.

My Unisaw arrived with a large pink label on the box instructing me to check the contents for possible damage. There was a pierce in the box near the bottom. Looked like a sloppy forklift operator didn’t have the blades set at the right height and smacked into the saw box. Sure enough, the cabinet base was bashed in. I called Woodworker’s Supply and told them, they called Delta, and a new base was sent out that day. When the base arrived I called WW Supply again and asked how to swap bases. DO NOT LEAN THE SAW OVER a very stern voice instructed me. IT WILL BREAK THE TRUNNION.

And there you have it. Unisaw trunnions do break in shipping if they are tilted...of if you lay your Unisaw over to swap bases. The solution is a tilt meter on the shipping carton. It your saw box arrives with a silver meter you are good to go. If it arrives with a red meter, don’t even let them take it off the truck. This I was told when I purchased my saw, to check the meter before the saw is unloaded. So yes, the SHIPPERS are not keeping the saws upright, so I guess you can say the shippers are the ones breaking the trunnions. But you could also argue it should be possible to design a saw that can be tipped on it’s side without damage.

Unless your Unisaw is tilted you're not likely to have any trunnion trouble. Don't know how far over you can tip it before the weight of the stuff on the trunnion causes a problem for it.


Edit: I won’t tell you how I single-handedly swapped bases on a 300lb saw without tilting it. However, I claim to have a much better understanding of how the pyramids were built.

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 13:18:42 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"Greg G." wrote in message
.. .

Is the Unisaw still worth having, or would a Grizzly 1023SL be a
better choice. Although I own many Delta tools, I haven't been very
happy with the last few Delta products or their customer (non) service
as of late.

Well Delta has had a problem with Unisaws in the last 7 or 8 years. The
factory was blaming the shippers and apparently they have finally admitted
to improper assembly methods. Trunions have been breaking at what I would
call an alarming rate. If the saw looks like new you have ask yourself why
it had to be refurbished as it should have lasted many many years. I would
say it is a good bet that the trunion had to be replaced. Something to
thhink about.



Leon,

I have a great deal of respect for you through reading your posts but
in this case you have been mislead by someone. I've read the threads
on this before and there has been much misinformation.

There has never been a problem with the torque setting at the factory
on the trunion bracket bolts or any other improper assembly methods.
This comment has been posted a number of times and regardless of the
original source, it is not true.

The package design has been ISTA tested with the appropriate inclined
plane, straight drop and vibrations tests at an independent lab. It
holds a transit tested rating. Even so, trunions would ocasionally
break in shipment even when the package looked fine on arrival.

In testing to try to find out why they were breaking the only way the
trunions could be broken was to tip the unit over and have it land
solidly on the front table edge. When this happened there was no
packaging damage, the internal damage was concealed. You can't imagine
how many sets I've observed broken during that testing process. It is
kind of sickening to keep tipping a saw over just to see if you could
get a statistical read on what would break.

Changes made a number of years ago were to specifically address this
issue. The red motor strap was removed, not to save money but because
it was creating another problem. freight dock drivers would drive up
on a running pickup and slam fork lift masts into the relatively
unprotected end bell of the motor, breaking the end bell and sometimes
the motor bracket. The change was to drop the motor down as far into
the cabinet as possible, supporting it on the dust chute, to protect
it and also to lower the center of gravity to make tip overs less
likely.

A device called a tilt watch was added to the package alerting a
distributor to not accept the package from the freight carrier if the
device had been activated. The only way it could be activated is if
the freight dock person had tipped it over.

The only design change on the trunion brackets and trunions was to
increase the cross sections where there was breakage and to increase
any radii to eliminate the notch effect on impact. There has been no
reduction in the specifications for chemical or mechanical properties
of the iron as was suggested in some old threads.

There were a number of other changes to the pack to improve the
shippability. And after any change the unit was transit tested again
by an independent lab.

A broken internal component is a small percentage of returns. Most
are minor (cosmetic) freight damage or internal warehouse damage or
distributor resets. Many come in and the refurb diagnosis indicates no
apparent reason. However, the refurb process is outstanding. You will
get a good saw if you buy refurb. My everyday use unisaw is a
reconditioned unit.

Why post now? It was/is a company policy not to respond to posts on
unmoderated news groups. I no longer work for the company and I do
not represent them with this post. It is, however, the truth.

Frank

Frank Boettcher said:

There has never been a problem with the torque setting at the factory
on the trunion bracket bolts or any other improper assembly methods.
This comment has been posted a number of times and regardless of the
original source, it is not true.

The package design has been ISTA tested with the appropriate inclined
plane, straight drop and vibrations tests at an independent lab. It
holds a transit tested rating. Even so, trunions would ocasionally
break in shipment even when the package looked fine on arrival.

In testing to try to find out why they were breaking the only way the
trunions could be broken was to tip the unit over and have it land
solidly on the front table edge. When this happened there was no
packaging damage, the internal damage was concealed. You can't imagine
how many sets I've observed broken during that testing process. It is
kind of sickening to keep tipping a saw over just to see if you could
get a statistical read on what would break.

Changes made a number of years ago were to specifically address this
issue. The red motor strap was removed, not to save money but because
it was creating another problem. freight dock drivers would drive up
on a running pickup and slam fork lift masts into the relatively
unprotected end bell of the motor, breaking the end bell and sometimes
the motor bracket. The change was to drop the motor down as far into
the cabinet as possible, supporting it on the dust chute, to protect
it and also to lower the center of gravity to make tip overs less
likely.

A device called a tilt watch was added to the package alerting a
distributor to not accept the package from the freight carrier if the
device had been activated. The only way it could be activated is if
the freight dock person had tipped it over.

The only design change on the trunion brackets and trunions was to
increase the cross sections where there was breakage and to increase
any radii to eliminate the notch effect on impact. There has been no
reduction in the specifications for chemical or mechanical properties
of the iron as was suggested in some old threads.

There were a number of other changes to the pack to improve the
shippability. And after any change the unit was transit tested again
by an independent lab.

A broken internal component is a small percentage of returns. Most
are minor (cosmetic) freight damage or internal warehouse damage or
distributor resets. Many come in and the refurb diagnosis indicates no
apparent reason. However, the refurb process is outstanding. You will
get a good saw if you buy refurb. My everyday use unisaw is a
reconditioned unit.

Why post now? It was/is a company policy not to respond to posts on
unmoderated news groups. I no longer work for the company and I do
not represent them with this post. It is, however, the truth.

Frank,

This was a very informative rundown on the problems associated with
the trunnions and as I suspected all along - improper handling by
shippers was the cause. I have never heard of one breaking in use.
I HAVE, however, see dock crews in action - and it is appalling.
I have worked at several large electronics distributors and the damage
caused by idiots on fork lifts was a source of considerable loss
within each company. I've seen them exceed clearly marked stacking
heights, run into equipment with fork lifts at top speed, and tip
equipment off the raised lifts.

My only real fear of a refurb saw is the same reason I work on my own
cars - stripped threads and fasteners. (Used to be a Mercedes
mechanic.) Scratches and dents I can live with. Stripped threads
will keep me up at night. I would hope that, like most production
facilities, you use torque limited air tools in the plant, but I have
no idea.

It is quite interesting to me to hear "war stories" concerning the
plant you managed and the tools I purchase. Feel free to pass along
any more you feel are interesting. For that matter, a tour of the
plant would be a blast. I've toured Ford, GM, and various electronics
plants - but never a stationary machine plant.

It is probably a mistake for management not to participate in this
forum, as long as it doesn't turn into a P.R. affair. After all,
these guys are your primary customers and their ideas are often quite
excellent.

Thanks,


Greg G.

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 02:44:52 -0400, Greg wrote:


Local dealer is selling "factory refurbished" Delta Unisaws with the
50" commercial Beisemeyer Fences, model 36-L31X-BC50 for $1299.
They look like new, but only have a 6 month warranty.

Is the Unisaw still worth having, or would a Grizzly 1023SL be a
better choice. Although I own many Delta tools, I haven't been very
happy with the last few Delta products or their customer (non) service
as of late.

Are the handwheels durable and heavy enough to give the mech a nice
feel? Or have they cheaped out and gone to aluminum or (shudder)
plastic handwheels? Are the trunnions the same as they used to be?
Do they still use that overpriced proprietary motor mount?

Anyone bought one of these, any caveats?

Thanks,


Greg G.

I am a happy owner of a Grizzly 1023SL.

Still, for $1299 for a Unisaw that you can get locally, that might be
a better deal. First, if you get a Grizzly with a 50" fence, it will
raise the price; add shipping and I guess you would be right at $1299.

Then there is the benefit of a local vendor. Grizzly does a great job
of after sales support, but it is long distance. If you need a
replacement part, it will take a few days to arrive.

Either way, I believe you will get a fine deal.

Jim Weisgram