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#1
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Routing marble?
I recently finished a potato bin. It was supposed to be painted poplar
with a mahagony top. Not what SWMBO wanted so it is dyed & stained poplar (not half bad). I found an OLD piece of marble which fits top perfectly. It has a ogee type profile on 1 side and 2/3 of two sides. The rest is a staright cut. I need to shape this part to match. How?? Router with carbide bits? 41/2 inch grinder freehand? Other ideas? Thanks Jerry |
#2
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simoogle wrote:
I recently finished a potato bin. It was supposed to be painted poplar with a mahagony top. Not what SWMBO wanted so it is dyed & stained poplar (not half bad). I found an OLD piece of marble which fits top perfectly. It has a ogee type profile on 1 side and 2/3 of two sides. The rest is a staright cut. I need to shape this part to match. How?? Router with carbide bits? 41/2 inch grinder freehand? Other ideas? Thanks Jerry I wouldn't attempt it. I'd look in the yellow pages for a stone cutter that has the proper equipment and pay them to route it. -- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove -SPAM- to send email) |
#3
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I heard that you can rout marble. I know that they sell diamond router bits
that will do it but somebody told me you can use carbide. max I recently finished a potato bin. It was supposed to be painted poplar with a mahagony top. Not what SWMBO wanted so it is dyed & stained poplar (not half bad). I found an OLD piece of marble which fits top perfectly. It has a ogee type profile on 1 side and 2/3 of two sides. The rest is a staright cut. I need to shape this part to match. How?? Router with carbide bits? 41/2 inch grinder freehand? Other ideas? Thanks Jerry |
#4
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"max" wrote in message ... I heard that you can rout marble. I know that they sell diamond router bits that will do it but somebody told me you can use carbide. max You heard? Somebody told you? Well let's chuck in a carbide bit and watch the fireworks, lol. |
#5
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You heard? Somebody told you? Well let's chuck in a carbide bit and watch
the fireworks, lol. One gets the feeling that we might all see a "This machine is not designed for shaping *ROCKS*" on our routers in a while. |
#6
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On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 22:58:09 -0500, the blithe spirit "Battleax"
clearly indicated: "max" wrote in message ... I heard that you can rout marble. I know that they sell diamond router bits that will do it but somebody told me you can use carbide. max You heard? Somebody told you? Well let's chuck in a carbide bit and watch the fireworks, lol. I watched a show the other night about a trade school. The guy was learning how to cut marble in the quarry with a 13' long carbide-tipped hydraulic-powered chainsaw. They used lots of water to cool it and there were no sparks at all. Marble is very soft, not hard like granite. I'd try a cheapie carbide router bit on it. -- Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. --------------- www.diversify.com -- Smart Website Design |
#7
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In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote: I'd try a cheapie carbide router bit on it. Water is the trick here... go ahead and cool your routerbit with a gardenhose..G |
#8
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On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:44:24 -0400, the blithe spirit Robatoy
clearly indicated: In article , Larry Jaques wrote: I'd try a cheapie carbide router bit on it. Water is the trick here... go ahead and cool your routerbit with a gardenhose..G Uh, Rob, you forgot the disclaimer. Sure as ****, some idiot who follows Boob Villa will go out and try this today. Best hurry! -- Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. --------------- www.diversify.com -- Smart Website Design |
#9
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In article .com,
"simoogle" wrote: I recently finished a potato bin. It was supposed to be painted poplar with a mahagony top. Not what SWMBO wanted so it is dyed & stained poplar (not half bad). I found an OLD piece of marble which fits top perfectly. It has a ogee type profile on 1 side and 2/3 of two sides. The rest is a staright cut. I need to shape this part to match. How?? Router with carbide bits? 41/2 inch grinder freehand? Other ideas? Thanks Jerry There is marble and there is marble. Most require diamonds and water to cut, shape. The odd type of marble that can be worked dry, still needs diamonds at slower speeds as heat is the enemy. Carbide won't do the job. BTDT |
#10
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simoogle wrote:
I recently finished a potato bin. It was supposed to be painted poplar with a mahagony top. Not what SWMBO wanted so it is dyed & stained poplar (not half bad). I found an OLD piece of marble which fits top perfectly. It has a ogee type profile on 1 side and 2/3 of two sides. The rest is a staright cut. I need to shape this part to match. How?? Router with carbide bits? 41/2 inch grinder freehand? Other ideas? Well, I rout aluminum from time to time and marble is way softer. Still, I'd think it is too brittle to rout well with a standard router bit....need something like a rotary file with lots of small cutters, carbide not necessary. Another consideration is: are you sure it is actually marble? Drop some acid on it and see if it fizzes. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
#11
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dadiOH wrote: simoogle wrote: I recently finished a potato bin. It was supposed to be painted poplar with a mahagony top. Not what SWMBO wanted so it is dyed & stained poplar (not half bad). I found an OLD piece of marble which fits top perfectly. It has a ogee type profile on 1 side and 2/3 of two sides. The rest is a staright cut. I need to shape this part to match. How?? Router with carbide bits? 41/2 inch grinder freehand? Other ideas? Well, I rout aluminum from time to time and marble is way softer. Still, I'd think it is too brittle to rout well with a standard router bit....need something like a rotary file with lots of small cutters, carbide not necessary. Marble softer than Aluminum? Seems unlikely. Can't find a Moh's harndess for Aluminum, but marble is 3.0 or higher. The oxide coating that naturally forms on aluminum is certainly harder than marble if that is what you mean. But that layer is too thin to matter when milling aluminum. -- FF |
#13
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"Morris Dovey" wrote in news7XUe.3$yo3.4116
@news.uswest.net: snip Some of my fellow ShopBot owners have used their machines to rout Corian with very nice results - and I'd expect that material is more like marble than granite. I've turned Corian on my wood lathe, with HSS tools. Makes a nice escutcheon for fixing tiling screwups, and a heck of a mess. But marble? Find a pro, or find an alternative. And the idea of water-cooling an electrical motor driven router scares the dickens out of me. Patriarch |
#14
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Patriarch (in 6)
said: | "Morris Dovey" wrote in news7XUe.3$yo3.4116 | @news.uswest.net: | | snip || || Some of my fellow ShopBot owners have used their machines to rout || Corian with very nice results - and I'd expect that material is || more like marble than granite. | | I've turned Corian on my wood lathe, with HSS tools. Makes a nice | escutcheon for fixing tiling screwups, and a heck of a mess. | | But marble? Find a pro, or find an alternative. | | And the idea of water-cooling an electrical motor driven router | scares the dickens out of me. It's only scary to me if I have to hold on to it. Water-based coolant use in machining isn't uncommon. One of the ShopBot guys used water cooling for a project in which he routed peoples' names in *bricks* (not a typical use for the machine). -- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html |
#15
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"Morris Dovey" wrote in news:fJ_Ue.23$yo3.9035
@news.uswest.net: snip | And the idea of water-cooling an electrical motor driven router | scares the dickens out of me. It's only scary to me if I have to hold on to it. Water-based coolant use in machining isn't uncommon. One of the ShopBot guys used water cooling for a project in which he routed peoples' names in *bricks* (not a typical use for the machine). My assumption is that the ShopBot was properly engineered to accomplish this and similar things. Such tools are infrequently sold at Ace Hardware, and never at Sears... Patriarch, who has no problem with using the right tool for the job... |
#16
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Patriarch (in 6)
said: | "Morris Dovey" wrote in news:fJ_Ue.23$yo3.9035 | @news.uswest.net: | | snip ||| And the idea of water-cooling an electrical motor driven router ||| scares the dickens out of me. || || It's only scary to me if I have to hold on to it. Water-based || coolant use in machining isn't uncommon. One of the ShopBot guys || used water cooling for a project in which he routed peoples' names || in *bricks* (not a typical use for the machine). | | My assumption is that the ShopBot was properly engineered to | accomplish this and similar things. | | Such tools are infrequently sold at Ace Hardware, and never at | Sears... True (although I think the 'Bot was designed for woodworking - even if people have set it up for all kinds of jobs with lasers, plasma cutters, grinders,...) It's possible to use a router on all kinds of unlikely materials (even Kevlar!) - and it's hardly ever necessary to buy tooling for one-off jobs when there are people around who already have that tooling and have accumulated experience in using it. I've tackled a few "iffy" jobs with the CNC router where I've left the shop immediately after hitting the "start" key and returned when the job finished. These days I take that kind of job to someone who knows how to do it without risking injury. Y'know, I just realized that I haven't bought _any_ tools at Ace (or Sears) since I got my first LV catalog... | Patriarch, | who has no problem with using the right tool for the job... -- Morris Dovey who is pleased to still count to ten on his fingers |
#17
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On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 13:02:28 -0500, Patriarch
wrote: "Morris Dovey" wrote in news7XUe.3$yo3.4116 : snip Some of my fellow ShopBot owners have used their machines to rout Corian with very nice results - and I'd expect that material is more like marble than granite. I've turned Corian on my wood lathe, with HSS tools. Makes a nice escutcheon for fixing tiling screwups, and a heck of a mess. But marble? Find a pro, or find an alternative. And the idea of water-cooling an electrical motor driven router scares the dickens out of me. Patriarch turning marble on a lathe is not that big a deal. I'd be a bit nervous running a woodworking router bit on it freehand, though. |
#18
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Thanks for all the responses! First some clarification; when I said OLD
marble it is from a victorian bedroom set so from the late 1800's to early 1900's and sort of creme with the veining. When I said 1 side and two partials, it is only about 17 inches total to be worked. Having read the responses, you should be aware my big router is a Hitachi M12V. I would need the M12VWP (waterproof) for the cooling ideas Since there seems to be some consensus that it is workable, I'm going to try to knock the edges off (ala Norm) with the Makita grinder. As an old metal worker, there's nothing you can't do with a Makita grinder. Depending on how that goes, I may buy a cheaper carbide bit to smooth the profile. I just can't do that to a Whiteside! I'll let you know what I try and how it goes. The good news is that I have an second identical piece if I screw this one up (and don't kill myself). Jerry |
#19
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On 11 Sep 2005 15:55:45 -0700, "simoogle" wrote:
Thanks for all the responses! First some clarification; when I said OLD marble it is from a victorian bedroom set so from the late 1800's to early 1900's and sort of creme with the veining. When I said 1 side and two partials, it is only about 17 inches total to be worked. Having read the responses, you should be aware my big router is a Hitachi M12V. I would need the M12VWP (waterproof) for the cooling ideas Since there seems to be some consensus that it is workable, I'm going to try to knock the edges off (ala Norm) with the Makita grinder. As an old metal worker, there's nothing you can't do with a Makita grinder. Depending on how that goes, I may buy a cheaper carbide bit to smooth the profile. I just can't do that to a Whiteside! I'll let you know what I try and how it goes. The good news is that I have an second identical piece if I screw this one up (and don't kill myself). Jerry instead of using a router for the final shaping, consider using a scraper. think big scratch stock. |
#20
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simoogle wrote:
Depending on how that goes, I may buy a cheaper carbide bit to smooth the profile. I just can't do that to a Whiteside! I'd still use a HSS bit...not as brittle as carbide and *much* harder than the marble. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
#21
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Morris Dovey wrote: simoogle (in ) said: | I recently finished a potato bin. It was supposed to be painted | poplar with a mahagony top. Not what SWMBO wanted so it is dyed & | stained poplar (not half bad). I found an OLD piece of marble which | fits top perfectly. It has a ogee type profile on 1 side and 2/3 of | two sides. The rest is a staright cut. I need to shape this part to | match. How?? Router with carbide bits? 41/2 inch grinder freehand? | Other ideas? Jerry... Marble can be machined with CNC routers. I would guess that carbide-tipped bits with 1/2" or larger shanks are used. Spindle and feed speeds would need to be chosen carefully, and there'd need to be an effective cooling system to prevent overheating the bit. I'd expect the cutters suitable for even soft stone to be grinding cutters, not 'slicing cutters' like those used for wood or metal. My quick search turned up a granite (harder than marble, I think) at http://www.cncmotion.com/granite.htm - which will provide some idea of what the machines look like. Some of my fellow ShopBot owners have used their machines to rout Corian with very nice results - and I'd expect that material is more like marble than granite. Isn't corian plastic? E.g. an organic polymer. Hardly comparable to rock. -- FF |
#22
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(in
) said: | Morris Dovey wrote: || || Marble can be machined with CNC routers. I would guess that || carbide-tipped bits with 1/2" or larger shanks are used. Spindle || and feed speeds would need to be chosen carefully, and there'd || need to be an effective cooling system to prevent overheating the || bit. | | I'd expect the cutters suitable for even soft stone to be grinding | cutters, not 'slicing cutters' like those used for wood or metal. On the ShopBot Forum, at http://www.talkshopbot.com/cgi-bin/d...15&post=22151# POST22151 you can see a marble (pet) gravestone that was routed with a standard 90 degree V-cutter. There's another discussion of routing marble with a photo at http://www.talkshopbot.com/cgi-bin/d...15&post=12599# POST12599 (mind the wrap). Note that in this instance the router was a Porter Cable running at 10,000 RPM and maximum depth of cut was 0.1". Between passes, the user softened the marble by wetting it with water (I just learned a new trick!) || My quick search turned up a granite (harder than marble, I think) || at http://www.cncmotion.com/granite.htm - which will provide some || idea of what the machines look like. || || Some of my fellow ShopBot owners have used their machines to rout || Corian with very nice results - and I'd expect that material is || more like marble than granite. | | Isn't corian plastic? E.g. an organic polymer. Hardly comparable | to rock. You got the first part right. It's not rock. For routing purposes, however, it's much like a soft rock (harder than soapstone, softer than granite). -- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html |
#23
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On 2005-09-12 14:05:40 -0400, said:
Isn't corian plastic? E.g. an organic polymer. Hardly comparable to rock. Indeed. Corian is methyl metacrylate with Aluminum TriHydrate filler. ( and dyes ) When the proper sharp router bit is selected, and the rpm is just right, the feedrate appropriate for the depth of cut, the bit will slice/cut the material creating very thin shavings of the cut you're taking that are light enough to become somewhat air-born in a floaty sort of way.... that reminds me of me and my sweetie sitting in a Swiss meadow surrounded by tiny butterflies... *SLAP* If you're getting 'dust'.. you're 'grinding' turning the ATH white and leaving a white line. Polyester solid surface countertops will almost always 'grind' as the stuff is nothing but auto-body filler with aquarium gravel tossed in for colour..IOW..crap. (You also cannot thermoform polyester) eStone, as I call it, (engineered stone) is 93% quartz and 7% acrylic... sold as Silestone, DuPont Zodiaq, Cambria, FormicaStone...and many more. You work that stuff the same as granite(MUCH harder than marble, btw) diamonds and lots of water. -- www.topworks.ca Comprehensive Solid-surface countertop fabrication and installation services. |
#24
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On 10 Sep 2005 17:44:30 -0700, "simoogle" wrote:
I found an OLD piece of marble which fits top perfectly. It has a ogee type profile on 1 side and 2/3 of two sides. The rest is a staright cut. I need to shape this part to match. How?? You can't rout marble. A router will cut it (marble is indeed pretty soft) but a router just doesn't have the rigidity for it. If you have a shaper (English term) which is like a big table-mounted router at a slow speed, then you can do it. A spindle moulder (big shaper, with replaceable knives) has too high a linear speed. Diamond tooling works fine, but needs water or air blst cooling / lubrication / dust removal. It's not something you can run in a woodworking machine. You can saw marble either dry, with a diamond sawblade in an angle grinder, or wet with a diamond tilesaw. Marble really is pretty soft though. Get a carbide "tile file" and do it by hand. Then use a piece of tile setter's carbide-grit coated mesh to smooth it, then plain old silicon carbide wet ad dry paper glued to a plywood stick (or pulled tight over a cork block) to polish it. Don't work the paper with your hand, or you'll sand thumblines into it. |
#25
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OK the outcome. I chickened out on using a router and went with the
grinders. It cut like butter with a medium 4.5 inch grinder wheel and left bright white if somewhat rough edge. I then hit it with a medium grit sanding disk with the little overlapping flaps. It smoothed it OK but burnt it a bit. I used no cooling just moved the grinder. I had three edges to do, two about 2" long to match an existing ogee and the third about 12" which was a straight cut. The first try on small edge is OK, the second came out real good & will be the front. I just beveled the remaining side for now. The next problem was the existing piece was an antique "tea with creme" color and the new edges were bright white so it didn't matter how close the cut was, it still stood out like a sore thumb. Ten minutes later and a quarter can of Comet cleanser, it all blended together. Based on how the Comet erased the burn marks, I think I'll tune it up at my leisure with a profile sander and silicon carbide paper. So I never tried routing, but for that adventureous soul out there...it might work. Thanks for all the advice. Jerry |
#26
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simoogle wrote: ... I then hit it with a medium grit sanding disk with the little overlapping flaps. It smoothed it OK but burnt it a bit. I used no cooling just moved the grinder. ... Ten minutes later and a quarter can of Comet cleanser, it all blended together. Based on how the Comet erased the burn marks ... Hmm, I guess the burn marks were from materials in the sandpaper, like the adhesive that holds the grit onto the paper. Makes you wonder if similar burn marks on wood (from power sanding--not power sawing) might be cleanable with solvent. -- FF |
#27
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"simoogle" wrote in message It cut like butter with a medium 4.5 inch grinder wheel and left bright white if somewhat rough edge. This is very disappointing news. With all the conversation on the subject, we needed something more dramatic. Shattering table tops, holes blown in the walls from flying chips, tools exploding. Simple tools and it worked. bummer. |
#28
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I wasn't going to respond to this thread since I didn't want anyone to get
hurt trying this, buttttt, I did put a 3/8 roundover on a slab of marble with a router and a carbide bit about two years ago. I used a bit that was about to be trashcanned anyway(cheapie), and an old crapsman router(my first router, what did I know). I did it freehand and dry. The only problem was the dust storm it made. A little polishing and it turmed out great. I now have an MK 10" wetsaw and a diamond profile wheel so I wont be doing that again. -- "shut up and keep diggen" Jerry |
#29
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On 2005-09-13 00:06:23 -0400, "JERALD SMEJKAL"
said: The only problem was the dust storm it made. If any of that dust came from the carbide bit, cheapie or not, I hope you had a mask on your face. According to my sharpener, carbide dust has cobalt in it and will hurt your lungs. -- www.topworks.ca Comprehensive Solid-surface countertop fabrication and installation services. |
#30
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"Robatoy" wrote in message news:2005091313281618846%design@BULLtopworksca... On 2005-09-13 00:06:23 -0400, "JERALD SMEJKAL" said: The only problem was the dust storm it made. If any of that dust came from the carbide bit, cheapie or not, I hope you had a mask on your face. According to my sharpener, carbide dust has cobalt in it and will hurt your lungs. -- www.topworks.ca Comprehensive Solid-surface countertop fabrication and installation services. and if there were any silicon in that granite, silicosis. |
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