I am in the market for a cordless drill / driver. I'm not interested
in one of the cheaper 3/8" drills (Skil, B&D, etc.) but for my modest
DIY uses I probably don't need the top-of-the-line pro models either.

Being very happy with Milwaukee jigsaw I've bought a few years ago, I'm
leaning towards one of their 14.4v 1/2" dril / drivers. The specific
models are the 0612-22 Compact Series drill and the 0616-24 Lok-Tor
drill. The 0612 is a bit smaller and lighter, but the Lok-Tor beats it
in torque (460 vs. 390) and run time. The Lok-Tor also has a side
handle. One think that bothers me about the Lok-Tor is that it is a
"new" product; in most cases this is a good thing, but in this case I
really want to hear that the new product is better (esp. considering
Milwaukee is under new ownership).

Pricewise, it looks like the Lok-Tor 0616 will run me about $20 more
than the 0612.

So, what I'd like to hear are any reccomendations between these two
models from someone who has used both. If you feel strongly that I
should the 18V model, or get a different brand (Panasonic, DeWalt,
etc.) let me know that too. Thanks.

wrote in message
ups.com...
I am in the market for a cordless drill / driver. I'm not interested
in one of the cheaper 3/8" drills (Skil, B&D, etc.) but for my modest
DIY uses I probably don't need the top-of-the-line pro models either.

Being very happy with Milwaukee jigsaw I've bought a few years ago, I'm
leaning towards one of their 14.4v 1/2" dril / drivers. The specific
models are the 0612-22 Compact Series drill and the 0616-24 Lok-Tor
drill. The 0612 is a bit smaller and lighter, but the Lok-Tor beats it
in torque (460 vs. 390) and run time. The Lok-Tor also has a side
handle. One think that bothers me about the Lok-Tor is that it is a
"new" product; in most cases this is a good thing, but in this case I
really want to hear that the new product is better (esp. considering
Milwaukee is under new ownership).

Pricewise, it looks like the Lok-Tor 0616 will run me about $20 more
than the 0612.

So, what I'd like to hear are any reccomendations between these two
models from someone who has used both. If you feel strongly that I
should the 18V model, or get a different brand (Panasonic, DeWalt,
etc.) let me know that too. Thanks.

I have the 18v Dewalt set. Powerful, heavy and some times hard to get into
places. Did I mention heavy?

If your just doing some DIY stuff I suggest that you consider the Chicago
brand by Harbor Freight. Last time I looked their 18 v drill was 40 bucks.
Personally if and when I need another cordless I will consider the 14.4v
stuff. Size is important when trying to get the drill into places. I own
corded drills that go up to half inch so power is not a problem. It is not
that big of a deal to string a cord for me at least.

If this is your one and only drill, you might want the more powerful one.

wrote in message
ups.com...
I am in the market for a cordless drill / driver. I'm not interested
in one of the cheaper 3/8" drills (Skil, B&D, etc.) but for my modest
DIY uses I probably don't need the top-of-the-line pro models either.

Being very happy with Milwaukee jigsaw I've bought a few years ago, I'm
leaning towards one of their 14.4v 1/2" dril / drivers. The specific
models are the 0612-22 Compact Series drill and the 0616-24 Lok-Tor
drill. The 0612 is a bit smaller and lighter, but the Lok-Tor beats it
in torque (460 vs. 390) and run time. The Lok-Tor also has a side
handle. One think that bothers me about the Lok-Tor is that it is a
"new" product; in most cases this is a good thing, but in this case I
really want to hear that the new product is better (esp. considering
Milwaukee is under new ownership).

Pricewise, it looks like the Lok-Tor 0616 will run me about $20 more
than the 0612.

So, what I'd like to hear are any reccomendations between these two
models from someone who has used both. If you feel strongly that I
should the 18V model, or get a different brand (Panasonic, DeWalt,
etc.) let me know that too. Thanks.

In article . com,
wrote:

I am in the market for a cordless drill / driver. I'm not interested
in one of the cheaper 3/8" drills (Skil, B&D, etc.) but for my modest
DIY uses I probably don't need the top-of-the-line pro models either.

Being very happy with Milwaukee jigsaw I've bought a few years ago, I'm
leaning towards one of their 14.4v 1/2" dril / drivers. The specific
models are the 0612-22 Compact Series drill and the 0616-24 Lok-Tor
drill. The 0612 is a bit smaller and lighter, but the Lok-Tor beats it
in torque (460 vs. 390) and run time. The Lok-Tor also has a side
handle. One think that bothers me about the Lok-Tor is that it is a
"new" product; in most cases this is a good thing, but in this case I
really want to hear that the new product is better (esp. considering
Milwaukee is under new ownership).

Pricewise, it looks like the Lok-Tor 0616 will run me about $20 more
than the 0612.

So, what I'd like to hear are any reccomendations between these two
models from someone who has used both. If you feel strongly that I
should the 18V model, or get a different brand (Panasonic, DeWalt,
etc.) let me know that too. Thanks.

I have one of the original Milwaukee 14.4 cordless drills. I use it
almost every day...it's been busy these last few days. Not a hic-up for
almost 5 years.... 1/2" variable speed with clutch. I'd do that again in
a heart-beat.

"AL" wrote in message
...
If this is your one and only drill, you might want the more powerful one.

If it is his one and only drill he should consider getting a much cheaper
corded one first.

Why? Corded drills are horrible screwdrivers. Any drill can drill a hole.
What sets a good cordless drill apart is its ability to drive screws (via a
clutch and electric brake).

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

"AL" wrote in message
...
If this is your one and only drill, you might want the more powerful one.

If it is his one and only drill he should consider getting a much cheaper
corded one first.

Everyone should have a corded drill as their primary/backup

So that when those wonderful battery powered ones die 3/4 of the way through
a job, you don't have to wait for the battery to recharge.

And don't start the "they should have a second battery ready in the charger
all the time" argument.
As no one ever does. LOL

If you can plug in a charger, you can plug in a drill.

And to be honest, a REAL SCREWDRIVER works great too, a bit slower, but
NEVER has to be recharged or plugged in g


AMUN



"AL" wrote in message
...
Why? Corded drills are horrible screwdrivers. Any drill can drill a
hole.
What sets a good cordless drill apart is its ability to drive screws (via
a
clutch and electric brake).

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

"AL" wrote in message
...
If this is your one and only drill, you might want the more powerful
one.

If it is his one and only drill he should consider getting a much
cheaper
corded one first.

Hmmm... I bought my Dewalt 18v cordless drill, and I haven't used my corded
one since. No reason to. And, as a matter of fact, I do usually have a
second battery ready in the charger. As soon as I take a battery out of the
drill because it's dieing, it gets slapped into the charger. Even when I
was building my deck, I wasn't able to out-pace the batteries. They charge
in an hour, and it took me longer than that to wear them out.

Clint

"Amun" wrote in message
...
Everyone should have a corded drill as their primary/backup

So that when those wonderful battery powered ones die 3/4 of the way
through
a job, you don't have to wait for the battery to recharge.

And don't start the "they should have a second battery ready in the
charger
all the time" argument.
As no one ever does. LOL

If you can plug in a charger, you can plug in a drill.

And to be honest, a REAL SCREWDRIVER works great too, a bit slower, but
NEVER has to be recharged or plugged in g


AMUN



"AL" wrote in message
...
Why? Corded drills are horrible screwdrivers. Any drill can drill a
hole.
What sets a good cordless drill apart is its ability to drive screws (via
a
clutch and electric brake).

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

"AL" wrote in message
...
If this is your one and only drill, you might want the more powerful
one.

If it is his one and only drill he should consider getting a much
cheaper
corded one first.

I just find something else to do as the battery charges. It only takes an
hour or so.

Have you ever tried driving a 3" screw using a manual screwdriver?

"Amun" wrote in message
...
Everyone should have a corded drill as their primary/backup

So that when those wonderful battery powered ones die 3/4 of the way
through
a job, you don't have to wait for the battery to recharge.

And don't start the "they should have a second battery ready in the
charger
all the time" argument.
As no one ever does. LOL

If you can plug in a charger, you can plug in a drill.

And to be honest, a REAL SCREWDRIVER works great too, a bit slower, but
NEVER has to be recharged or plugged in g


AMUN



"AL" wrote in message
...
Why? Corded drills are horrible screwdrivers. Any drill can drill a
hole.
What sets a good cordless drill apart is its ability to drive screws (via
a
clutch and electric brake).

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

"AL" wrote in message
...
If this is your one and only drill, you might want the more powerful
one.

If it is his one and only drill he should consider getting a much
cheaper
corded one first.

As a hobbyist, I question the need for a backup for any tool. It is a great
way to save money.

"Amun" wrote in message
...
Everyone should have a corded drill as their primary/backup

So that when those wonderful battery powered ones die 3/4 of the way
through
a job, you don't have to wait for the battery to recharge.

And don't start the "they should have a second battery ready in the
charger
all the time" argument.
As no one ever does. LOL

If you can plug in a charger, you can plug in a drill.

And to be honest, a REAL SCREWDRIVER works great too, a bit slower, but
NEVER has to be recharged or plugged in g


AMUN



"AL" wrote in message
...
Why? Corded drills are horrible screwdrivers. Any drill can drill a
hole.
What sets a good cordless drill apart is its ability to drive screws (via
a
clutch and electric brake).

"Leon" wrote in message
m...

"AL" wrote in message
...
If this is your one and only drill, you might want the more powerful
one.

If it is his one and only drill he should consider getting a much
cheaper
corded one first.

"Amun" wrote in message
....
Everyone should have a corded drill as their primary/backup

Perhaps. Mine has not been touched since I got a cordless about 5 years ago.


And don't start the "they should have a second battery ready in the
charger
all the time" argument.
As no one ever does. LOL

I have two ready to go.


If you can plug in a charger, you can plug in a drill.

Right, but the charger will charge a battery a few feet from the receptical
while the battery powered drill can be taken hundeds, thousands, of feet
away and still work, no extgensio cord needed. Damned handy to have
cordless up on the roof.



And to be honest, a REAL SCREWDRIVER works great too, a bit slower, but
NEVER has to be recharged or plugged in g

True, but putting in those 2 1/2" screws up on the second floor for shutters
was much faster using a powered tool.

People used to ride horses and cut firewood with hand saws too, but few will
today. But don't let me stop you from enjoying old technology.

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 19:22:38 -0400, Amun wrote:

Everyone should have a corded drill as their primary/backup

I have one. Somewhere. Actually I found it a few weeks ago, after not
using it for at least five years, but had lost the chuck key. Oh well,
it's a lump o-junk anyway. I simply put it back where I found it. No
harm.

So that when those wonderful battery powered ones die 3/4 of the way
through a job, you don't have to wait for the battery to recharge.

Buy decent tools and they won't dissapoint you. I bought a 12V Makita
over ten years ago. While the batteries are starting to go, it's still
useful (as are the other tools I bought using the same batteries). My
main drill now is a Porter Cable that makes the Makita look sick. ...both
are usefull though. If I needed to drill a 2" hole in a concrete wall, no
I wouldn't use a cordless drill.

And don't start the "they should have a second battery ready in the
charger all the time" argument. As no one ever does. LOL

Perhaps stipid people don't. One of my batteries (from any tool) is
always in the charger. The day before I do a significant work I swap
and charge them. As others have said, it only takes an hour to charge a
battery.

If you can plug in a charger, you can plug in a drill.

The charger is in the basement on my workbench. The drill (right now) is
in the bathroom behind me, where I used it all day. Let me guess, you only
use the drill to clean the buggers out of your nose. Heh, my beard
trimmer is cordless too. Go figgr.

And to be honest, a REAL SCREWDRIVER works great too, a bit slower, but
NEVER has to be recharged or plugged in g

You *must* be a troll (and not the brightest one in tha pack). Try
driving a few thousand deck screws by hand.

--
Keith

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 02:11:22 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:


"Amun" wrote in message
...
Everyone should have a corded drill as their primary/backup

Perhaps. Mine has not been touched since I got a cordless about 5 years ago.


And don't start the "they should have a second battery ready in the
charger
all the time" argument.
As no one ever does. LOL

I have two ready to go.


Put me in the "me too" crowd here also. One battery is always in the
charger (Milwaukee has trickle charge, so no harm is done to the battery
this way, it actually keeps the battery from discharging by itself), the
other on the drill.






+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

"keith" wrote in message

If it's a NiCd or NiMH battery, a constant trickle charge isn't good
for it. I leave mine go, until I know I'm going to need it. I charge one
the day before, then swap batteries after the "uncharged" one gets a
little light.

New chargers shut down, not trickle. Maybe some cheap ones still do.

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 19:43:52 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 02:11:22 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:


"Amun" wrote in message
...
Everyone should have a corded drill as their primary/backup

Perhaps. Mine has not been touched since I got a cordless about 5 years ago.


And don't start the "they should have a second battery ready in the
charger
all the time" argument.
As no one ever does. LOL

I have two ready to go.


Put me in the "me too" crowd here also. One battery is always in the
charger (Milwaukee has trickle charge, so no harm is done to the battery
this way, it actually keeps the battery from discharging by itself), the
other on the drill.

If it's a NiCd or NiMH battery, a constant trickle charge isn't good
for it. I leave mine go, until I know I'm going to need it. I charge one
the day before, then swap batteries after the "uncharged" one gets a
little light.

--
Keith

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 23:09:12 -0400, keith wrote:

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 19:43:52 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 02:11:22 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:


"Amun" wrote in message
...
Everyone should have a corded drill as their primary/backup

Perhaps. Mine has not been touched since I got a cordless about 5 years ago.


And don't start the "they should have a second battery ready in the
charger
all the time" argument.
As no one ever does. LOL

I have two ready to go.


Put me in the "me too" crowd here also. One battery is always in the
charger (Milwaukee has trickle charge, so no harm is done to the battery
this way, it actually keeps the battery from discharging by itself), the
other on the drill.

If it's a NiCd or NiMH battery, a constant trickle charge isn't good
for it. I leave mine go, until I know I'm going to need it. I charge one
the day before, then swap batteries after the "uncharged" one gets a
little light.

Milwaukee manual indicates that no harm will come to battery by leaving
it on the charger. I probably didn't phrase this right, the trickle charge
is not constant, but the charger keeps the battery near full charge,
re-charging when it drops some (don't know what the threshold is).




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

"keith" wrote in message
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 19:22:38 -0400, Amun wrote:
Everyone should have a corded drill as their primary/backup

Agreed. When there's heavy work to do, a cordless drill just doesn't cut it
as far as I'm concerned. I've got a Milwaukee 12v cordless and I use it
whenever I can, but my 120v Milwaukee hammer drill is there and gets used
when the going gets really tough.

Upscale wrote:

Somebody wrote:


Everyone should have a corded drill as their primary/backup

IMHO, bull****.

I used an 18 VDC DeWalt driving a 3" hole saw to cut a hole in the aft
end of the keel for the propshaft tube of the boat I'm building.

Drilled a hole thru 3/4" of epoxy and double bias knitted glass.

By comparison, drilling that same hole thru a piece of hickory is a
piece of cake.

Had to replace the bimetal hole saw, but the drill is still working.

BTW, my corded drill is a 1/2" right angle unit for drilling large holes
with a hole saw.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
Everyone should have a corded drill as their primary/backup

IMHO, bull****.

I used an 18 VDC DeWalt driving a 3" hole saw to cut a hole in the aft
end of the keel for the propshaft tube of the boat I'm building.

Great, you've got yourself a very capable cordless unit. Good for you. I'm
sure that next you're going to us that the cordless DeWalt will outpower any
and all corded drills.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..

"Amun" wrote in message
...
Everyone should have a corded drill as their primary/backup

Perhaps. Mine has not been touched since I got a cordless about 5 years
ago.


And don't start the "they should have a second battery ready in the
charger
all the time" argument.
As no one ever does. LOL

I have two ready to go.


If you can plug in a charger, you can plug in a drill.

Right, but the charger will charge a battery a few feet from the
receptical
while the battery powered drill can be taken hundeds, thousands, of feet
away and still work, no extgensio cord needed. Damned handy to have
cordless up on the roof.



And to be honest, a REAL SCREWDRIVER works great too, a bit slower, but
NEVER has to be recharged or plugged in g

True, but putting in those 2 1/2" screws up on the second floor for
shutters
was much faster using a powered tool.

People used to ride horses and cut firewood with hand saws too, but few
will
today. But don't let me stop you from enjoying old technology.





This reply is not just for you but ALL who say their cordless drills are
wonderful.



I have one too, in a kit with a little circular and jig saw, flashlight, etc
that all works on the same battery

But only use it when absolutely necessary, eg. working on a roof/ladder or
crawling under a building when I only need to drill a few holes or make a
small quick cut


Over the years I have worked with many who ALSO laughed at me for preferring
"ancient technology" with extension cords.

And just about every day one of the cordless people would be asking for a
loan of my corded drill.
Usually as they ran out of batteries, and were lost.

Batteries go bad, don't always make a good connection in the charger, get
dropped and break, or charger cords get kicked out of plugs and no one
notices until its too late.

And sometimes on sites with lots of people walking around,.....batteries and
chargers left unattended just vanish.

Nobody seems to care about taking my extension cord and scratched up metal
casing drill, and if they try I'll know it right away


The ones who had batteries borrowed the corded drill as theirs just were
not powerful enough to handle jobs.

Try drilling though concrete or 3' of wood with a cordless drill or any use
where you will be using it for more than a few minutes steady.
Those batteries just won't stand up.

Corded will still go until you can't hold it anymore or the drill is
smoking.


When I go to a site where there is no power, I bring along a small
generator.
It powers the drill and anything else I need


While you keep running thousands of feet every hour or so to get a fresh
batteries, all I need is within a few feet.


In closing to all who think cordless is a MUST.

What did you do 10 years ago ???


All tools have their pros and cons.
The best thing for one person is not necessarily the best for all.

But again to the OP.
If you have no drill yet, you will see that there are lots of opinions.


AMUN

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message

I used an 18 VDC DeWalt driving a 3" hole saw to cut a hole in the aft
end of the keel for the propshaft tube of the boat I'm building.

My _primary_ drill is also an 18v DeWally, with two batteries that have been
rebuilt by www.primecell.com (and having experienced the before and after,
that was key to turning it into the hoss it is) ... I rarely have to bring
out the corded 1/2" drive Milwaukee, but I am glad it's there.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/29/05

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 03:06:18 +0000, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:


"keith" wrote in message

If it's a NiCd or NiMH battery, a constant trickle charge isn't good
for it. I leave mine go, until I know I'm going to need it. I charge one
the day before, then swap batteries after the "uncharged" one gets a
little light.

New chargers shut down, not trickle. Maybe some cheap ones still do.

Yes, and there is a good reason for it, as I pointed out. The "good
chargers" don't maintain charge and M&J indicated a trickle charge.

--
Keith

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 20:18:12 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 23:09:12 -0400, keith wrote:

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 19:43:52 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:

On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 02:11:22 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:


"Amun" wrote in message
...
Everyone should have a corded drill as their primary/backup

Perhaps. Mine has not been touched since I got a cordless about 5 years ago.


And don't start the "they should have a second battery ready in the
charger
all the time" argument.
As no one ever does. LOL

I have two ready to go.


Put me in the "me too" crowd here also. One battery is always in the
charger (Milwaukee has trickle charge, so no harm is done to the battery
this way, it actually keeps the battery from discharging by itself), the
other on the drill.

If it's a NiCd or NiMH battery, a constant trickle charge isn't good
for it. I leave mine go, until I know I'm going to need it. I charge one
the day before, then swap batteries after the "uncharged" one gets a
little light.

Milwaukee manual indicates that no harm will come to battery by leaving
it on the charger. I probably didn't phrase this right, the trickle charge
is not constant, but the charger keeps the battery near full charge,
re-charging when it drops some (don't know what the threshold is).

Cycling a battery in the charger may not be a good strategy either.
There is a maximum number of recharge cycles for batteries. NiMH is worse
than NiCd here, but NiCds also have cycling "issues".

--
Keith

"Amun" wrote in message
This reply is not just for you but ALL who say their cordless drills are
wonderful.


And just about every day one of the cordless people would be asking for a
loan of my corded drill.
Usually as they ran out of batteries, and were lost.

I don't use my drill every day, nor do my neighbors or co workers. Does not
apply.



And sometimes on sites with lots of people walking around,.....batteries
and
chargers left unattended just vanish.

As do many other tools. But we are talking home use, not a job site.

Try drilling though concrete or 3' of wood with a cordless drill or any
use
where you will be using it for more than a few minutes steady.
Those batteries just won't stand up.

Corded will still go until you can't hold it anymore or the drill is
smoking.

Agree. The right tool for the job, every time. I don't recall the last
time I drilled concrete. I did put in a couple of anchors, maybe 5 years
ago. Used my corded drill and is crapped out on me. I was, however, a
home use type drill, not a pro drill.




When I go to a site where there is no power, I bring along a small
generator.
It powers the drill and anything else I need

Never had the need.



While you keep running thousands of feet every hour or so to get a fresh
batteries, all I need is within a few feet.

Never worked with my drill for hours at a time.

All tools have their pros and cons.
The best thing for one person is not necessarily the best for all.

Exactly. The typical homeowner or hobbyist does not need generators and new
batteries every hour. I go weeks between charges. I have two drills and
have one set for drilling pilot holes, the other for screwing. Saves time
changing back and forth.

You make good and valid points but your needs far exceed 95% of us.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Amun" wrote in message
This reply is not just for you but ALL who say their cordless drills are
wonderful.


And just about every day one of the cordless people would be asking for
a
loan of my corded drill.
Usually as they ran out of batteries, and were lost.

I don't use my drill every day, nor do my neighbors or co workers. Does
not
apply.



And sometimes on sites with lots of people walking around,.....batteries
and
chargers left unattended just vanish.

As do many other tools. But we are talking home use, not a job site.

Try drilling though concrete or 3' of wood with a cordless drill or any
use
where you will be using it for more than a few minutes steady.
Those batteries just won't stand up.

Corded will still go until you can't hold it anymore or the drill is
smoking.

Agree. The right tool for the job, every time. I don't recall the last
time I drilled concrete. I did put in a couple of anchors, maybe 5 years
ago. Used my corded drill and is crapped out on me. I was, however, a
home use type drill, not a pro drill.




When I go to a site where there is no power, I bring along a small
generator.
It powers the drill and anything else I need

Never had the need.



While you keep running thousands of feet every hour or so to get a fresh
batteries, all I need is within a few feet.

Never worked with my drill for hours at a time.

All tools have their pros and cons.
The best thing for one person is not necessarily the best for all.

Exactly. The typical homeowner or hobbyist does not need generators and
new
batteries every hour. I go weeks between charges. I have two drills and
have one set for drilling pilot holes, the other for screwing. Saves time
changing back and forth.

You make good and valid points but your needs far exceed 95% of us.



Actually now that I am retired my drills get a lot more rest than they used
to.
But I still grab the odd job for spending money & something to do.

But many are arguing that a $300.00+ cordless drill setup is better than
any corded one.
If the OP is just going to use it once a month around the house to hang the
occasional picture on drywall, you don't need much.

And even a $15.00 corded cheap B&D will suffice.
Most homeowners will never be 50' from an outlet anyway, so the weedwacker
extension cord they already have will serve their needs

But if someone just wants a cordless at any cost, by all means, take your
money, buy what you want, and enjoy it.


AMUN

In article . com,
wrote:

[snip]

For real screw-driving on a serious level, try the Milwaukee 1/2" Close
Quarters drill (Yup it has a tail).

Quite awkward at first, once you're used to it..nothing else will do.