Just finishing my first project with red oak. I love the color and
grain, and would like to seal/protect the wood while adding as little
color as possible to the wood. I would like it to be protected so that
I don't have to refresh the sealant very often if at all.

Thanks,
--b

What exactly IS the project?

Dave

newman wrote:

Just finishing my first project with red oak. I love the color and
grain, and would like to seal/protect the wood while adding as little
color as possible to the wood. I would like it to be protected so that
I don't have to refresh the sealant very often if at all.

Thanks,
--b

"newman" wrote in message
ups.com...
Just finishing my first project with red oak. I love the color and
grain, and would like to seal/protect the wood while adding as little
color as possible to the wood. I would like it to be protected so that
I don't have to refresh the sealant very often if at all.

Thanks,

I used Tried and True brand varnish oil on some oak and was very pleased
with it. There are other choices that may be more suitable, depending on
what the project is being used for.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

Well, that would mean water based poly.
Not that I ever used it; I like the effect of oil on wood.

As a relative newbie myself, I don't have a specific recommendation for
an oak finish without a stain, but I've had good luck with polyurethane
gel from Rockler over stains, and over unstained birch ply. It was
easy to use, and I found it emphasized the grain of the birch ply
without noticably changing the color. (Remember to sand lightly
between coats, because oil-based polyurethane can't bind to itself.) I
just finished a spice rack of red oak, and I found a light-colored
pigment stain emphasized the grain and really brought out more color of
the wood, without making it look artificial or anything.
Overall finishing recommendation: I have Flexner's finishing book, and
I highly recommend it - it is very helpful for understanding what's
actually going on with several different kinds of stains and finishes.
Good luck with your project!

"newman" wrote in message
Just finishing my first project with red oak. I love the color and
grain, and would like to seal/protect the wood while adding as little
color as possible to the wood. I would like it to be protected so that
I don't have to refresh the sealant very often if at all.

Opinions will vary, but mine is to sand with 220 grit sandpaper, wipe on
unscented baby oil, rub it in with the grain using 0000 steel wool, wipe off
with dry cloth. After that, I could wipe my hand on it, but not appear to
pick up any residue.

I was really impressed the first time I tried this. After finishing, I wrote
on a small section with a pencil, then used a dry rag to easily wipe the
pencil marks off. Every six months if I remember, I lightly wipe on a new
coat of baby oil and wipe off with a cloth.

newman wrote:
Just finishing my first project with red oak. I love the color and
grain, and would like to seal/protect the wood while adding as little
color as possible to the wood. I would like it to be protected so that
I don't have to refresh the sealant very often if at all.

Thanks,
--b


I used Minwax Antique Oil -- whatever is in it... :-) and then a few
coats of wax on the clock. It dries fast and is really convenient when
you have to finish in a hurry. Wipe on -- wait a _few_minutes (5 to 10)
the wipe off. Give it an hour or two and re-coat... They recommend
waiting 24 hour to re-coat. For wax I use the Johnson paste wax -- for
flooring. Buffs up beautifully. You get a small shift to gold/amber but
it shows much nicer than the photos. Between coats you can use very fine
steel wool (00 to 0000) and before waxing. Because it dries fast you do
not have a big issue with dust pickup.

Red Oak Clock
http://woodwork.pmccl.com/Business/p...sandlamps.html

Same on the stool:
http://woodwork.pmccl.com/Business/p...furniture.html

--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

"newman" wrote in message
ups.com...
Just finishing my first project with red oak. I love the color and
grain, and would like to seal/protect the wood while adding as little
color as possible to the wood. I would like it to be protected so that
I don't have to refresh the sealant very often if at all.

Laquer.
SH

Well, whatever you do will change the color. Red Oak which is pinkish
to beige when raw will turn more towards yellow/gold with any finish.
Just get any part of it wet with water or mineral spirits to see what
the finished color will look like.

Depending on your available equipment and what the project will be used
for (ie is it a table or a picture frame?) will determine what finish
is best.

Any oil finish will darken the color even more than a film finish AND
need to be renewed eventually. Read this months Fine Woodworking
magazine for a great technical piece on oil finishes (I think that's
where I read it).

Lacquer is fast to spray (dries in 20-30 minutes) and can be gloss to
satin, your choice. Not as durable as some other finishes (somewhat
brittle) but pretty good. Sorta repairable. Nice for furniture, not the
best for table tops or high wear/contact areas. Used alot in commercial
applications because its fast but won't last as long as some others.

Shellac is a natural finish. Not sheen controlled in the mix, must be
managed with steel wool or polishing for satin/gloss respectively after
application. Mixed/thinned with alcohol. Dries as fast as Lacquer. Can
be sprayed but better brushed or ragged on. Not very impervious to
liquids, especially water or alcoholic beverages. Very repairable.
Historicially used on some of the finest furniture. Not great for table
tops where food/drink may be served.

Polyurathane is slower drying (some newer ones are faster) and
available gloss to satin. A little harder to apply well and harder to
sand/polish because its so fricken hard. Spray, brush or wiped on (in
my opinion wiping is the easiest way to get great results as a
hobbiest). Very impervious to liquids. Not really repairable. Good on
anything but best when wear is a concern like floors, doors, table
tops, furniture in the kitchen.

Varnish is also slower drying and the hardest to apply well. In my
experience it is more like paint than any of the other finishes. Best
brushed but can be sprayed. Hard as **** and fricken
waterproof/sunproof in some forms (ie marine varnish). Never tried to
repair but assume as bad as Poly in this department. Good on boats,
exterior doors and also used on furniture (send the flames boys).

Hope this helps. Of course all of this is IMHO and YMMV ;^)

On 2 Jun 2005 09:37:36 -0700, the inscrutable "SonomaProducts.com"
spake:

Well, whatever you do will change the color. Red Oak which is pinkish
to beige when raw will turn more towards yellow/gold with any finish.
Just get any part of it wet with water or mineral spirits to see what
the finished color will look like.

The waterborne finishes won't darken the wood much, nothing like
the oil-based finishes will. I prefer the darker look on oak.


Varnish is also slower drying and the hardest to apply well. In my

Varnish is simple to apply (warmed and/or thinned a bit) but does
take a long time to dry. It's my favorite finish of all, and every
finish I use nowadays has at least some varnish in it. (Watco,
Waterlox, T&T Varnish Oil...Oops, not shellac. Almost every one.)


experience it is more like paint than any of the other finishes. Best
brushed but can be sprayed. Hard as **** and fricken
waterproof/sunproof in some forms (ie marine varnish). Never tried to
repair but assume as bad as Poly in this department. Good on boats,
exterior doors and also used on furniture (send the flames boys).

Varnish is MUCH easier to repair than poly. Sand and re-brush it.
Not a prob. It sands easily but does tend to gum up the sandpaper
more quickly. Don't sand until it's REALLY dry. Use a stearated paper
and clean any residues off prior to brushing again.


Hope this helps. Of course all of this is IMHO and YMMV ;^)

YMWV, TYVM.

--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-
http://www.diversify.com Wondrous Website Design

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

Varnish is MUCH easier to repair than poly. Sand and re-brush it.
Not a prob. It sands easily but does tend to gum up the sandpaper
more quickly. Don't sand until it's REALLY dry. Use a stearated paper
and clean any residues off prior to brushing again.

This is true Sea-less -- most folks don't let the varnish, or lacquer
for that matter, cure long enough prior to anything but between-coats
scuff sanding. Off onto a different area of varnishes and lacquer - but
to level and buff to a high gloss one ought to wait as long as possible
for the finish to fully cure. I go by a rule of waiting at least 30 days
and will hold off longer if I can put off the final rubbing out.

If the varnish or lacquer sanding dust collects into little pills and
gums the paper instead of merely turning to a white powder then the
finish is still too soft to effectively sand.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

On 1 Jun 2005 18:34:39 -0700, "newman" wrote:

Just finishing my first project with red oak. I love the color and
grain, and would like to seal/protect the wood while adding as little
color as possible to the wood. I would like it to be protected so that
I don't have to refresh the sealant very often if at all.

You could always go against popular opinion, and just use polyurethane
or clear laquer. The laquer might yellow a bit with time, but the
poly should stay clear. Both are nice and tough.

Thanks,
--b

Larry Jaques wrote:

Varnish is simple to apply (warmed and/or thinned a bit) but does
take a long time to dry. It's my favorite finish of all, and every
finish I use nowadays has at least some varnish in it. (Watco,
Waterlox, T&T Varnish Oil...Oops, not shellac. Almost every one.)


As much as I love to spray lacquer, phenolic varnish has got to be the
most user friendly film finish out there.

So easy to rub out, simple to apply, not totally offensive smelling, and
durable.

Thinned and wiped on, it's almost foolproof. Dust nib? Rub it off and
recoat.

Barry

"Fly-by-Night CC" wrote in message
news
In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

Varnish is MUCH easier to repair than poly. Sand and re-brush it.
Not a prob. It sands easily but does tend to gum up the sandpaper
more quickly. Don't sand until it's REALLY dry. Use a stearated paper
and clean any residues off prior to brushing again.

This is true Sea-less -- most folks don't let the varnish, or lacquer
for that matter, cure long enough prior to anything but between-coats
scuff sanding. Off onto a different area of varnishes and lacquer - but
to level and buff to a high gloss one ought to wait as long as possible
for the finish to fully cure. I go by a rule of waiting at least 30 days
and will hold off longer if I can put off the final rubbing out.

If the varnish or lacquer sanding dust collects into little pills and
gums the paper instead of merely turning to a white powder then the
finish is still too soft to effectively sand.
--

More left out than the C with Larry, it seems. Varnish being a term to
describe resin in a liquid makes those products containing resins like
urethane as much a varnish as those containing alkyd resins, phenolics,
copal , etc.

Shellac is even called "spirit varnish" elsewhere in the world.

Confusing.

Two things happen with a finish - solvent evaporates, and finish cures.

For cures, oil takes longest, even with siccatives. Lacquer and shellac
take time to develop as esters form, and water-based stuff least of all.

Mostly the directions are written on the can.

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:09:55 -0400, the inscrutable "George"
george@least spake:

More left out than the C with Larry, it seems.

KMAH.


Varnish being a term to
describe resin in a liquid makes those products containing resins like
urethane as much a varnish as those containing alkyd resins, phenolics,
copal , etc.

I made the distinction between the poly/urethanes and other
varnishes if you read my post again, Least.

--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-
http://www.diversify.com Wondrous Website Design

George says...

More left out than the C with Larry, it seems. Varnish being a term to
describe resin in a liquid makes those products containing resins like
urethane as much a varnish as those containing alkyd resins, phenolics,
copal , etc.

Shellac is even called "spirit varnish" elsewhere in the world.

Confusing.

Two things happen with a finish - solvent evaporates, and finish cures.

For cures, oil takes longest, even with siccatives. Lacquer and shellac
take time to develop as esters form, and water-based stuff least of all.

Mostly the directions are written on the can.

You're a riot, George. Lacquer and shellac are evaporative finishes.
Nothing forms as they cure. Varnish and polyurethane polymerize as they
cure. Read much?

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:32:26 -0700, the inscrutable Fly-by-Night CC
spake:

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

Varnish is MUCH easier to repair than poly. Sand and re-brush it.
Not a prob. It sands easily but does tend to gum up the sandpaper
more quickly. Don't sand until it's REALLY dry. Use a stearated paper
and clean any residues off prior to brushing again.

This is true Sea-less -- most folks don't let the varnish, or lacquer

I may be sea-less but we have a nice river here in GP, Owie. I got to
see the little hydroplanes race last weekend. That was fun. I can't
believe they're so much louder than the uncorked headers on the V-8s
of the sprint and marathon boats. But to see one of those hydros and
then think back to when I was standing 100' away from the big muthuhs
on Mission Bay (Sandy Eggo) makes me laugh. Miss Budweiser was about
5n times larger and sported a jet turbine engine putting out about
150 times as much power and moving over twice as fast; 75mph vs. Miss
Bud's near-200mph. They deserved their name, the Thunderboats.
An oldie: http://www.thunderboats.org/80bud.shtml
http://www.thunderboats.org/2004/tri...ities_009.html

Oh, to stay on topic, these probably have an epoxy resin finish rather
than varnish or lacquer.


for that matter, cure long enough prior to anything but between-coats
scuff sanding. Off onto a different area of varnishes and lacquer - but
to level and buff to a high gloss one ought to wait as long as possible
for the finish to fully cure. I go by a rule of waiting at least 30 days
and will hold off longer if I can put off the final rubbing out.

Yabbut, who ever heard of waiting more than 20 minutes between coats?
Nearly every finishing problem (other than staining crap) I've heard
of has been caused either by improper prep work or by the person NOT
waiting for it to dry properly, generally the latter. SWMBOs nag, life
calls, and the project is instantly ruined, at least for a while.


If the varnish or lacquer sanding dust collects into little pills and
gums the paper instead of merely turning to a white powder then the
finish is still too soft to effectively sand.

Ayup.

--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-
http://www.diversify.com Wondrous Website Design

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

I may be sea-less but we have a nice river here in GP, Owie. I got to
see the little hydroplanes race last weekend. That was fun. I can't
believe they're so much louder than the uncorked headers on the V-8s
of the sprint and marathon boats.

We, too, had a powerboat race this past weekend here on the Willamette.
Our house is about 1/2 mile from the river but we can hear the boats
pretty clearly - sounds like a swarm of mosquitos.

for that matter, cure long enough prior to anything but between-coats
scuff sanding. Off onto a different area of varnishes and lacquer - but
to level and buff to a high gloss one ought to wait as long as possible
for the finish to fully cure. I go by a rule of waiting at least 30 days
and will hold off longer if I can put off the final rubbing out.

Yabbut, who ever heard of waiting more than 20 minutes between coats?
Nearly every finishing problem (other than staining crap) I've heard
of has been caused either by improper prep work or by the person NOT
waiting for it to dry properly, generally the latter. SWMBOs nag, life
calls, and the project is instantly ruined, at least for a while.

True - even knowing that the best results come from waiting I sometimes
have a hard time holding back from completing a project due to having to
wait for the finish to cure. Other times I put the piece aside to cure
and then never get back to rubbing it out - this generally happens with
my turned pieces. (I've got two pieces that were lacquered late last
summer and I still haven't gone back to "color sand" and polish - d'ya
think the lacquer has cured long enough by now?
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

In article , "George" george@least
wrote:

Varnish being a term to
describe resin in a liquid makes those products containing resins like
urethane as much a varnish as those containing alkyd resins, phenolics,
copal , etc.

This is true enough George - though in current day conversation the term
"varnish" usually refers to alkyd resins and "poly" refers to the
urethane resins - being that these two resins are the most commonly and
widely available. Perhaps I/we shouldn't be so sloppy in our terminology.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

In article ,
Prometheus wrote:

You could always go against popular opinion, and just use polyurethane
or clear laquer. The laquer might yellow a bit with time, but the
poly should stay clear. Both are nice and tough.

Hmmm. I've always thought poly had an amber tone unless one uses the
water-based variety which is practically clear to slight bluish in tone.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05

"Hax Planx" wrote in message
.net...
George says...

More left out than the C with Larry, it seems. Varnish being a term to
describe resin in a liquid makes those products containing resins like
urethane as much a varnish as those containing alkyd resins, phenolics,
copal , etc.

Shellac is even called "spirit varnish" elsewhere in the world.

Confusing.

Two things happen with a finish - solvent evaporates, and finish cures.

For cures, oil takes longest, even with siccatives. Lacquer and shellac
take time to develop as esters form, and water-based stuff least of all.

Mostly the directions are written on the can.

You're a riot, George. Lacquer and shellac are evaporative finishes.
Nothing forms as they cure. Varnish and polyurethane polymerize as they
cure. Read much?

Snicker. Going out of your way to look a fool versus looking it up again?

www.metacrawler.com

If you can read, you'll learn a lot about how lacquers and such cure.

George says...

Snicker. Going out of your way to look a fool versus looking it up again?

www.metacrawler.com

If you can read, you'll learn a lot about how lacquers and such cure.

George, if you had been born a girl, we could call you Miss Information.
But all joking aside, you appear to be a clinical psychiatric case. In
this instance you are ass wrong, and most of the rest of your posts are
arguments over minute technicalities and semantics where your points are
dubious at best, and your attitude arrogant and abusive. But as Billy
Joel once said, 'you should never argue with a crazy ma-ma-ma-ma-man',
so I shan't do so any more. Welcome to the **** list, Georgie. You'll
get no more benefit of the doubt from me until your posts are more
rational and your attitude more civil. Toodles Napoleon, Jesus,
Einstein, or whoever you think you are.

"Hax Planx" wrote in message
.net...
George says...

Snicker. Going out of your way to look a fool versus looking it up
again?

www.metacrawler.com

If you can read, you'll learn a lot about how lacquers and such cure.

George, if you had been born a girl, we could call you Miss Information.
But all joking aside, you appear to be a clinical psychiatric case. In
this instance you are ass wrong, and most of the rest of your posts are
arguments over minute technicalities and semantics where your points are
dubious at best, and your attitude arrogant and abusive. But as Billy
Joel once said, 'you should never argue with a crazy ma-ma-ma-ma-man',
so I shan't do so any more. Welcome to the **** list, Georgie. You'll
get no more benefit of the doubt from me until your posts are more
rational and your attitude more civil. Toodles Napoleon, Jesus,
Einstein, or whoever you think you are.

Now that the children have plugged their ears, stomped their feet and left
the room, the curious might look at a fairly comprehensive article at
http://www.woodzone.com/articles/wood_finishes.htm
or http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00060.asp

Of course, they've got it all wrong with their definition of "Varnish," and
all lacquers are created equal....

George says...

Now that the children have plugged their ears, stomped their feet and left
the room, the curious might look at a fairly comprehensive article at
http://www.woodzone.com/articles/wood_finishes.htm
or http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00060.asp

Of course, they've got it all wrong with their definition of "Varnish," and
all lacquers are created equal....

Yikes, you are bizarre. Neither of those articles say anything about
lacquer and shellac forming esters as they cure (quel surprise, eh?),
nor do any such articles exist, because it was a false statement. I
could be wrong though, maybe you aren't nuts. Maybe you're just a 12
year old here talking out of his ass. I doubt you have ever cut a piece
of wood in your life.