I was minding my own business some weeks ago, when I saw this nifty
cheap belt-sander by Black & Decker. I knew it would never have the duty
of my PC's, but it had one feature which attracted me to it. A very
small front roller. with a flip-up door so that one can get into small
tight corners. I felt I could use that feature sporadically so the
'duty' didn't concern me too much.

I take the thing home and leave it in the box till the time came I could
use that feature; the inside corner of a counter-top edge. ( Did I tell
you guys I fabricate solid surface counter tops?)
Well lemme tell ya...what a piece of crap. MUCH worse than what I
expected. I KNEW it wasn't a 'pro' piece, but come-ON!!
The thing shuddered, and sounded like the bearings were spinning,
screaming and howling..... I went: "Uh-oh!" and stuck it back in the box.

I took it back to HD with my complaint.....they didn't want to refund
the 98 Can$ (About 70 US$), they wanted to send it for repairs...because
I was 10 days 'overdue' of the 30-day allowable return period. I was
even willing to replace it with a small belt-sander from another make
and pay a little extra if I had to...but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

A Big deal? Not really, I guess, but unless I get some satisfaction, and
soon, the boycott is on and I will never set foot in that store again...
and I can be one stubborn Dutchman when I want to be.

They want to hang a business relationship on 98 dollars or a '10-day'
technicality...then so be it.

Rob
www.topworks.ca

In article ,
Robatoy wrote:

I was minding my own business some weeks ago, when I saw this nifty
cheap belt-sander by Black & Decker. I knew it would never have the duty
of my PC's, but it had one feature which attracted me to it. A very
small front roller. with a flip-up door so that one can get into small
tight corners. I felt I could use that feature sporadically so the
'duty' didn't concern me too much.

I take the thing home and leave it in the box till the time came I could
use that feature; the inside corner of a counter-top edge. ( Did I tell
you guys I fabricate solid surface counter tops?)
Well lemme tell ya...what a piece of crap. MUCH worse than what I
expected. I KNEW it wasn't a 'pro' piece, but come-ON!!
The thing shuddered, and sounded like the bearings were spinning,
screaming and howling..... I went: "Uh-oh!" and stuck it back in the box.

I took it back to HD with my complaint.....they didn't want to refund
the 98 Can$ (About 70 US$), they wanted to send it for repairs...because
I was 10 days 'overdue' of the 30-day allowable return period. I was
even willing to replace it with a small belt-sander from another make
and pay a little extra if I had to...but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

A Big deal? Not really, I guess, but unless I get some satisfaction, and
soon, the boycott is on and I will never set foot in that store again...
and I can be one stubborn Dutchman when I want to be.

They want to hang a business relationship on 98 dollars or a '10-day'
technicality...then so be it.

Rob
www.topworks.ca

THEN I find out that there is NO way to e-mail those fine HD
people...and that their website for HD Canada says 90 NINETY days return
no questions asked....oh boy...wait till tomorrow....

Just get a new one from HD and use the reciept to return the old one.
Then, if you want, return the new one with no reciept and get a store
credit.
MikeOn Tue, 10 May 2005 21:03:06 -0400, Robatoy
wrote:

I was minding my own business some weeks ago, when I saw this nifty
cheap belt-sander by Black & Decker. I knew it would never have the duty
of my PC's, but it had one feature which attracted me to it. A very
small front roller. with a flip-up door so that one can get into small
tight corners. I felt I could use that feature sporadically so the
'duty' didn't concern me too much.

I take the thing home and leave it in the box till the time came I could
use that feature; the inside corner of a counter-top edge. ( Did I tell
you guys I fabricate solid surface counter tops?)
Well lemme tell ya...what a piece of crap. MUCH worse than what I
expected. I KNEW it wasn't a 'pro' piece, but come-ON!!
The thing shuddered, and sounded like the bearings were spinning,
screaming and howling..... I went: "Uh-oh!" and stuck it back in the box.

I took it back to HD with my complaint.....they didn't want to refund
the 98 Can$ (About 70 US$), they wanted to send it for repairs...because
I was 10 days 'overdue' of the 30-day allowable return period. I was
even willing to replace it with a small belt-sander from another make
and pay a little extra if I had to...but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

A Big deal? Not really, I guess, but unless I get some satisfaction, and
soon, the boycott is on and I will never set foot in that store again...
and I can be one stubborn Dutchman when I want to be.

They want to hang a business relationship on 98 dollars or a '10-day'
technicality...then so be it.

Rob
www.topworks.ca

Robatoy wrote:


I took it back to HD with my complaint.....they didn't want to refund
the 98 Can$ (About 70 US$), they wanted to send it for repairs...because
I was 10 days 'overdue' of the 30-day allowable return period. I was
even willing to replace it with a small belt-sander from another make
and pay a little extra if I had to...but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

A Big deal? Not really, I guess, but unless I get some satisfaction, and
soon, the boycott is on and I will never set foot in that store again...
and I can be one stubborn Dutchman when I want to be.

They want to hang a business relationship on 98 dollars or a '10-day'
technicality...then so be it.

Rob
www.topworks.ca

One of the reasons I buy new power tools down at Chase Pitkin - Lifetime
warranty on all power tools - all brands. It's worth the trip to
Rochester(or if we're cruising by...).

Rob

"Robatoy" wrote in message

I take the thing home and leave it in the box till the time came I could
use that feature;

Error. What would it take to plug it in and pull the trigger?




I took it back to HD with my complaint.....they didn't want to refund
the 98 Can$ (About 70 US$), they wanted to send it for repairs...because
I was 10 days 'overdue' of the 30-day allowable return period. I was
even willing to replace it with a small belt-sander from another make
and pay a little extra if I had to...but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

If 10 days is OK, then 12 is too. If 12 days is OK, then 18 is too. If 18
days is OK, then 30 is too. Why not just make it 5 years and be done with
it. The 18 year old at the return desk does not have much discretion in
interpeting corporate policy.


They want to hang a business relationship on 98 dollars or a '10-day'
technicality...then so be it.

Posted policy, not a technicality.
I'm surprised at you. With all your experience, you know B&D is low end,
you knew the HD policy was 30 days, you've been in business for a long time,
now you want special treatment. I really think you have to take
responsibility for some of this for not checking it beforehand. They did
offer to send it for repairs.

Sorry for the lack of sympathy, but I just happen to disagree on this.

Amen. Companies deal with all kinds of fraud yet everybody thinks they
should never be suspected. Heck, they offered to have it repaired.
Plus, we can't see how "used" it was. Perhaps they thought, my God,
this guy used the heck out of this machine, is finished with it, and
now wants us to eat it.

In article .com,
"Never Enough Money" wrote:

Amen. Companies deal with all kinds of fraud yet everybody thinks they
should never be suspected. Heck, they offered to have it repaired.
Plus, we can't see how "used" it was. Perhaps they thought, my God,
this guy used the heck out of this machine, is finished with it, and
now wants us to eat it.

I do not fit that profile. Not even close.

Hey Robatoy:

Calm down. I am a contractor here in Texas, and with few alternatives,
I have to shop at HD for a lot of my every day stuff. Liquid nails,
paint, sealer, a few boards here and there, plumbing, etc.

I used to scream like a mashed cat when I would go through what you
have, but the reality of it all is something you have already hit on.

They HONESTLY don't care. Shame on you for not checking out a POS like
B&D the first chance you got, but I DO understand that you buy
something like that and it does take a while for you to get it to the
job and try it, and a few more days to get by the store to return it.

They are a giant corporation. One size has to fit all. All rules must
be obseved the same for all shapes, sizes, sexes, races, etc. for fear
or litigation. Or worse, to have some asst. manager nitwit start
"interpreting" the rules as he or she sees fit.

You have to realize the nature of the beast you are dealing with.
They are what they are. They are a giant corporation moving units
through the system. They could be selling farm implements for all they
care.

You must have an entirely different type of HD up there in CA. Why in
the world did you think they gave a crap in the first place?

I have read many of your posts and don't believe that you still believe
in the Easter bunny or Santa , so why the big orange box fairy?

Don't shop there. I don't unless I am trapped into it. They are not
worth getting my blood pressure on boil because they are too stupid in
most cases to even know that they should care.

As a CONTRACTOR (read: constant, repeat, daily business) I am on your
side. As a realist, I think you are taking this much to personally.
After 24 years in business I will not boycott a supplier that could
save me time (= money) when they are so unconscious they simply don't
even notice, and wouldn't care if they did.

Robert

In article .com,
wrote:

I have read many of your posts and don't believe that you still believe
in the Easter bunny or Santa , so why the big orange box fairy?

Ummmmm....what are you saying? Huh? Huh?


*g*


Sears has better customer relations than these clowns. That is saying
something.
I repeat that I had NO expectations from B&D beyond the
'less-than-medium-duty' market niche they cater to. That's still no
excuse for a non-functioning device to be on their shelves, something
they are ultimately accountable for. To then hide behind a
"you-want-fries-with-that' grade policy simply sucks.
It is hit-and-run marketing. I won't be part of it...and sometimes it is
an event like this which sheds some light on the fact that HD is, in
fact, an arrogant organization.

Funny thing, I bought an air-conditioner for my shop at Canadian Tire
the same afternoon. That chain is notoriously understaffed and the few
that do work there, do so at minimum wage. So I expect lousy
service...guess what? I GOT lousy service... but I shrugged it off,
knowing where I was and what to expect.

I'm done with HD. For now.

wrote:
Hey Robatoy:

Calm down. I am a contractor here in Texas, and with few alternatives,
I have to shop at HD for a lot of my every day stuff. Liquid nails,
paint, sealer, a few boards here and there, plumbing, etc.

I used to scream like a mashed cat when I would go through what you
have, but the reality of it all is something you have already hit on.

They HONESTLY don't care. Shame on you for not checking out a POS like
B&D the first chance you got, but I DO understand that you buy
something like that and it does take a while for you to get it to the
job and try it, and a few more days to get by the store to return it.

They are a giant corporation. One size has to fit all. All rules must
be obseved the same for all shapes, sizes, sexes, races, etc. for fear
or litigation. Or worse, to have some asst. manager nitwit start
"interpreting" the rules as he or she sees fit.

You have to realize the nature of the beast you are dealing with.
They are what they are. They are a giant corporation moving units
through the system. They could be selling farm implements for all they
care.

You must have an entirely different type of HD up there in CA. Why in
the world did you think they gave a crap in the first place?

I have read many of your posts and don't believe that you still believe
in the Easter bunny or Santa , so why the big orange box fairy?

Don't shop there. I don't unless I am trapped into it. They are not
worth getting my blood pressure on boil because they are too stupid in
most cases to even know that they should care.

As a CONTRACTOR (read: constant, repeat, daily business) I am on your
side. As a realist, I think you are taking this much to personally.
After 24 years in business I will not boycott a supplier that could
save me time (= money) when they are so unconscious they simply don't
even notice, and wouldn't care if they did.

Robert


I find myself agreeing with you and Robatoy....

Maybe Robatoy should just look for an opportunity to return the favour.



--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

Home Depot and the other big boxes have by and large, become a joke.

I am returning to the local merchants for most of my non marine stuff.

Just yesterday, needed a 2", foil faced, rigid insulation board.

Started at H/D because they we closest, they no longer carry the product.

Next was a brand new Lowes, they had 1" but not 2" board.

Next was a lumber yard that has been around since 1884.

They had what I needed and the price was in line.

Nuf said.

Lew

Lew,
That's nice. The problem, however, is that the knowledgeable 'local
merchant' is becoming an extinct species.

There are several reasons why . . . and I think you already know most of
them.

Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
SNIP
I am returning to the local merchants for most of my non marine stuff.

SNIP . . . needed a 2", foil faced, rigid insulation board.
Next was a lumber yard that has been around since 1884.

They had what I needed and the price was in line.

Nuf said.

Lew

In article ,
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

"Robatoy" wrote in message

I take the thing home and leave it in the box till the time came I could
use that feature;

Error. What would it take to plug it in and pull the trigger?

One would think that in this day and age they had done that for me at
the end of the assembly line. Basic quality control is not a new idea. I
have reason to believe that a new tool will work. No? I know B&D is not
high-end, but it should at least do the job it is supposed to do, no?
You can't tell me that outright garbage is okay for the other customers
who have NOT had the exposure to quality gear?

If 10 days is OK, then 12 is too. If 12 days is OK, then 18 is too. If 18
days is OK, then 30 is too. Why not just make it 5 years and be done with
it. The 18 year old at the return desk does not have much discretion in
interpeting corporate policy.

I'm approaching this from their viewpoint. Those kind of rules are
guide-lines. Those 'rules' are not like a road-sign for State Troopers
to hide behind looking for their quota. " Excuse me sir, does that sign
say SPEED LIMIT 56?"

Turns out that is a moot point as their advertised policy states 90 days.
http://tinyurl.com/co38p

Still, a little flexibility makes for good relations. The lack of
flexibility and discretion is what is wrong with those MegaMoFo giant
big-box *******s. They simple don't give a rat's ass. It opened my eyes.
And THAT is why I'm done with them. Sure they have been conveniently
located for my needs, but that only accounts for so much.

They want to hang a business relationship on 98 dollars or a '10-day'
technicality...then so be it.

Posted policy, not a technicality.
I'm surprised at you. With all your experience, you know B&D is low end,
you knew the HD policy was 30 days, you've been in business for a long time,
now you want special treatment.

You're damned right I want special treatment. It's just not smart to
**** off customers who drop the kind of money on that store like my
outfit does. If I go to the same restaurant for years, *I* expect the
better pork chop from the cooler.

I really think you have to take
responsibility for some of this for not checking it beforehand. They did
offer to send it for repairs.

I have taken responsibility for not checking this closer. I did not
expect them to be nit-pickers on policy like that. It was *I* who
ventured into the UnderWorld of Black & Decker and became sorely
disappointed in one quick hurry. MY mistake. But HD could have taken
advantage of my dilemma and scored some major points in customer
relations by taking care of me better... instead of "You bought
it...OHHMYYY...missed it by ten days..OOPSIES you lose........

Sorry for the lack of sympathy, but I just happen to disagree on this.

I wasn't looking for sympathy, I know where to find that in the
dictionary. I find you're a level-headed guy in your other posts here.
There are likely many who will disagree with this. *I*, on the other
hand, expect to be treated a bit more like I treat MY customers....
maybe that's my mistake, but I will never compromise that.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
In article ,

I wasn't looking for sympathy, I know where to find that in the
dictionary. I find you're a level-headed guy in your other posts here.
There are likely many who will disagree with this. *I*, on the other
hand, expect to be treated a bit more like I treat MY customers....
maybe that's my mistake, but I will never compromise that.

Y'know, there are tens of thousands of other "special" people out there who
deserve the best, or think they do. For every customer you have, they have
ten thousand. They cater to the 9,999 who shop there for price and
availability.

I think it was your mistake on several levels, so eat the bucks. Like it's
the first or last time you'll make a poor decision?

There's the law and there's lawyers. In jail, they're all lawyers, ranting
against the law. You don't belong in that company.

In article , "George" george@least
wrote:

Like it's
the first or last time you'll make a poor decision?

The fact that I'm my third marriage tell you anything? *G*

Of course, it could have been the ex's poor decisions, eh?

"Robatoy" wrote in message

big-box *******s. They simple don't give a rat's ass. It opened my eyes.
And THAT is why I'm done with them. Sure they have been conveniently
located for my needs, but that only accounts for so much.

Over time you do notice one consistent, overriding philosophy: they are
there solely for the convenience and financial gratification of the
employees and management, PERIOD

Basically, I wouldn't walk into a HD if the company did not have a
commercial charge account and the money was coming out of my pocket. The
*******s even tried to kill me with a forklift last week, then attempted to
blame it on me ... damn good thing I am relatively nimble for my age. That
particular store "manager" won't forget me for a long time.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/06/05

"Swingman" wrote:
Over time you do notice one consistent, overriding philosophy: they are
there solely for the convenience and financial gratification of the
employees and management, PERIOD

Actually, like any publicly traded company, they are there solely for the
financial gratification of the stockholders. And based on what their stock
price has done over the past 20 years or so, I suspect stockholder
gratification is pretty high.

If they invest any effort to make customers, employees, and/or management
happy, it's only because they believe doing so will ultimately improve
shareholder value.

Let's take an example at another end of the spectrum -- Lee Valley. You
often hear people on this group raving about what a wonderful company it is
and how well they treat their customers. Well, that may be true, but my
statement above still holds -- they only treat their customers well because
they believe doing so will ultimately improve shareholder value (it's not a
publicly traded company, but the owner(s) still profit from it doing well).

There is no doubt that I like doing business with Lee Valley more than I
like doing business with Home Depot. But, it also doesn't escape my
attention that Home Depot could probably buy Lee Valley out of Petty Cash.
It would seem (sad as it may be to say this) that when push comes to shove,
big, obnoxious, and relentlessly efficient is a better (or at least, more
successful) way to make money.

Personally, I drop a lot of money at Home Depot. I know what to expect
from them, and what not to expect from them. And I know if I buy some
low-end B&D power tool, I'll probably regret it, but that's not really HD's
fault. I'm gonna keep buying hand planes from LV, but when I need a box of
nails, a garden hose, and a roll of BX cable at 10:00 on a Sunday night,
the big orange box is where I head. And, yes, I'm hoping Lowes gets some
stores open in my area. Having somebody who can compete with HD on an even
footing can only be good for me as a customer.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message

Over time you do notice one consistent, overriding philosophy: they are
there solely for the convenience and financial gratification of the
employees and management, PERIOD

Actually, like any publicly traded company, they are there solely for the
financial gratification of the stockholders.

Nope ... the shareholders aren't the ones who store the lumber carts at the
furthest end of the parking lot from the entrance.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/06/05

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
(snip)

Let's take an example at another end of the spectrum -- Lee Valley. You
often hear people on this group raving about what a wonderful company it
is
and how well they treat their customers. Well, that may be true, but my
statement above still holds -- they only treat their customers well
because
they believe doing so will ultimately improve shareholder value (it's not
a
publicly traded company, but the owner(s) still profit from it doing
well).

There is no doubt that I like doing business with Lee Valley more than I
like doing business with Home Depot. But, it also doesn't escape my
attention that Home Depot could probably buy Lee Valley out of Petty Cash.
(snip)

Hi Roy -

If we won't sell to Berkshire-Hathaway, there's not much chance the Borg
would do any better...

Robert (nailshooter) pretty much hit it on the head...the Boxes just aren't
flexible, or agile.

Cheers -

Rob

Roy Smith wrote:

Personally, I drop a lot of money at Home Depot. I know what to
expect from them, and what not to expect from them. And I know if I
buy some low-end B&D power tool, I'll probably regret it, but that's
not really HD's fault. I'm gonna keep buying hand planes from LV, but
when I need a box of nails, a garden hose, and a roll of BX cable at
10:00 on a Sunday night, the big orange box is where I head. And,
yes, I'm hoping Lowes gets some stores open in my area. Having
somebody who can compete with HD on an even footing can only be good
for me as a customer.



We had a Lowes open a couple years ago and they are pretty much the same as
HD. In either place I find myself giving lessons in whatever I'm looking
for, if it is more technical than a bag of dirt.

Swingman wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message


big-box *******s. They simple don't give a rat's ass. It opened my eyes.
And THAT is why I'm done with them. Sure they have been conveniently
located for my needs, but that only accounts for so much.


Over time you do notice one consistent, overriding philosophy: they are
there solely for the convenience and financial gratification of the
employees and management, PERIOD

Basically, I wouldn't walk into a HD if the company did not have a
commercial charge account and the money was coming out of my pocket. The
*******s even tried to kill me with a forklift last week, then attempted to
blame it on me ... damn good thing I am relatively nimble for my age. That
particular store "manager" won't forget me for a long time.


You were a bit faster then me:
Early January, I was delivering some goods to a local Kmart and the
bloody forklift *did* get me !!
A crushed left ankle, Trip to the local hospital, 600 km flight to Perth
and a week in Hospital to get it all fixed.
Only hung up my stick a couple of weeks ago and am getting about not to
badly now.
Moral of the story "If you pick on a forklift be prepared to come of
second best.
John

In article ,
"Swingman" wrote:

"Robatoy" wrote in message

big-box *******s. They simple don't give a rat's ass. It opened my eyes.
And THAT is why I'm done with them. Sure they have been conveniently
located for my needs, but that only accounts for so much.

Over time you do notice one consistent, overriding philosophy: they are
there solely for the convenience and financial gratification of the
employees and management, PERIOD

I'm much more aware of that now that I have seen their 'customer service
department' in action. (I wonder if it is staffed with ex fork-lift
drivers?

Basically, I wouldn't walk into a HD if the company did not have a
commercial charge account and the money was coming out of my pocket. The
*******s even tried to kill me with a forklift last week, then attempted to
blame it on me ... damn good thing I am relatively nimble for my age. That
particular store "manager" won't forget me for a long time.

I have an account there so I can send anybody to fetch stuff as the need
arises. They KNOW what I spent there over the last 3 years. It is
considerably less than a full building contractor, but it's enough.

A friend of mine supplies 5 HD stores with Corian. They make him jump
through hoops. Sometimes they are totally unreasonable. He cannot
template a job unless the cabinets are in. HD controls the sub who is
doing the installation of those cabinets. My friend's contract states
that he must deliver within 21 days after the order is confirmed.
Sometimes that leaves him 1 or 2 days to template, fabricate and install
a countertop. Sometimes he gets penalized for being late. Rules are
rules, right?

Anyway, good to hear you escaped injury. Not much give to forklifts.

on 5/11/2005 4:41 PM Robatoy said the following:
In article
A friend of mine supplies 5 HD stores with Corian. They make him jump
through hoops. Sometimes they are totally unreasonable. He cannot
template a job unless the cabinets are in. HD controls the sub who is
doing the installation of those cabinets. My friend's contract states
that he must deliver within 21 days after the order is confirmed.
Sometimes that leaves him 1 or 2 days to template, fabricate and install
a countertop. Sometimes he gets penalized for being late. Rules are
rules, right?

They try to pull that same crap with their customers as well. Tried to
buy a full kitchen's worth of cabinets on a complete makeover. First
had to deal with their "cabinet counselor" or whatever, couldn't just
get anyone to take the order although I'd already measured, obtained
their stocking numbers, etc.

Okay, no biggie, I'm back the next night and lo and behold their
"cabinet counselor" is some 60+ little old lady who honestly was
clueless. Couldn't operate the computer used to generate the order so
we swapped places and I filled in the order myself. Asked her one
simple question about a double door cabinet detail that wasn't clear
from anything they had in the books, on the computer, etc. Said she'd
have to call the factory and get back to me. Okay, let's write this upd!

Oh, you can't just buy them like that. You have to have one of our
people come out and measure your kitchen.

Adios, HD A**holes! Enough!

Talked to my Corian guy who put me in touch with his cabinet jobber.
Ordered them by FAX and was good to go in about ten days. Price was
better than HD for the same product as well.

HD = 7-11 If you gotta have it right now and you know what you need
it's the place to go when nothing else is available. Otherwise...
APBHD! Any Place But Home Depot.

On Tue, 10 May 2005 23:51:28 -0400, the inscrutable Robatoy
spake:

Still, a little flexibility makes for good relations. The lack of
flexibility and discretion is what is wrong with those MegaMoFo giant
big-box *******s. They simple don't give a rat's ass. It opened my eyes.
And THAT is why I'm done with them. Sure they have been conveniently
located for my needs, but that only accounts for so much.

Then why continue to rant so hard? If you're done, you're done. Hold
onto that vinegar and it'll eat a hole in your stomach. Repairs for
that are a helluva lot higher than the cost of a B&D sandah, sir.


You're damned right I want special treatment. It's just not smart to
**** off customers who drop the kind of money on that store like my
outfit does. If I go to the same restaurant for years, *I* expect the
better pork chop from the cooler.

Your outfit or you, personally? How do they know you? Does the manager
know you personally, or do you just do a lot of business there and a
couple of the checkers know you by sight? Do you do a lot of warranty
returns, custom fabrications/orders?

P.S: A man who "drops that kind of money" there usually doesn't buy
from the B&D line.


I really think you have to take
responsibility for some of this for not checking it beforehand. They did
offer to send it for repairs.

I have taken responsibility for not checking this closer. I did not
expect them to be nit-pickers on policy like that. It was *I* who
ventured into the UnderWorld of Black & Decker and became sorely
disappointed in one quick hurry. MY mistake. But HD could have taken
advantage of my dilemma and scored some major points in customer
relations by taking care of me better... instead of "You bought
it...OHHMYYY...missed it by ten days..OOPSIES you lose........

Have you truly taken responsibility for it? (If so, why the whine?)


Sorry for the lack of sympathy, but I just happen to disagree on this.

I wasn't looking for sympathy, I know where to find that in the
dictionary. I find you're a level-headed guy in your other posts here.
There are likely many who will disagree with this. *I*, on the other
hand, expect to be treated a bit more like I treat MY customers....
maybe that's my mistake, but I will never compromise that.

You should thank them for teaching you an inexpensive lesson. Once
purchased, every tool or item should be inspected immediately and/or
used to verify its function/color/texture/usability. Please DAMHIKT.
sigh

OK, so they screwed up on the warranty period. Send a letter off and
let it go. Your health is worth far more than a vendor's inattention.

In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.

Thanks for the reminder this morning; my daily lesson.


----------------------------------------------
CAUTION: Driver Legally B l o n d (e)
http://www.diversify.com Web Database Development
================================================== =====

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

[snipperectomy]
Then why continue to rant so hard? If you're done, you're done. Hold
onto that vinegar and it'll eat a hole in your stomach. Repairs for
that are a helluva lot higher than the cost of a B&D sandah, sir.

I rant because I don't hold on to vinegar... I vent. Vinegar free here.
*G*


Your outfit or you, personally? How do they know you? Does the manager
know you personally, or do you just do a lot of business there and a
couple of the checkers know you by sight? Do you do a lot of warranty
returns, custom fabrications/orders?

It's very hard to become known 'personally' when staff turns over at the
rate theirs does. This must be their 10th 'manager' since they opened 3
years ago. You see, I haven't had time to be 'hardened' by the onslaught
of the BBB's (Big Box *******s)

P.S: A man who "drops that kind of money" there usually doesn't buy
from the B&D line.

LOL... ONE piece of B&D..seriously... I bought that particular sander
because it has a tiny front roller and I thought that for the occasional
time I need to sand out a stubborn blemish from the inside corner of a
solid surface countertop that it would do the job. (BTW, did I tell you
I fabricate solid surface?). I bought the frickin' thing because of a
feature, NOT because I thought B&D makes wonderful tools.
I have tainted myself..smudge marks all over my reputation as a quality
tool buyer... I'm sorry I touched it..but I had a need...the rest of it
is all a blank...dunno WHAT happened....hell, I feel like the guy who
drove the baby-sitter home and shouldn't have done what he did...
Buy ONE piece of B&D! The guilt! =o]
Will my Lamello, Feins, Festools, Milwaukees EVER let me touch them
again??

[sipperectomies continue]

You should thank them for teaching you an inexpensive lesson. Once
purchased, every tool or item should be inspected immediately and/or
used to verify its function/color/texture/usability. Please DAMHIKT.
sigh

OK, so they screwed up on the warranty period. Send a letter off and
let it go. Your health is worth far more than a vendor's inattention.

In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.

So true. After I had to give up my nightly brandy(ies) with my dad
because my doctor put me on Naprosin for my OA, total sobriety ensued.

I'll get my satisfaction soon enough..and you're right...a cheap lesson
for me, but not for them. And it's knowing that they couldn't care
less...THAT is the part that irks me the most.

Out with the bad air...in with the good.

Thanks for the reminder this morning; my daily lesson.

You're welcome, sir. I'm glad you got something positive out of it as
well.

Robatoy wrote:

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

....

P.S: A man who "drops that kind of money" there usually doesn't buy
from the B&D line.

LOL... ...

Actually, what appears as a significant amount of money from your
perspective is probably totally insignificant when looking at their
total volume...I ran into that opinion (and on occasion hold it myself
when not thinking of the big picture) when working w/ vendors in
previous life. Even significant expenditures can and do pale when
compared to actual sales volume of large retailers/vendors.

I recall once many years ago going into a car dealership w/ which I
had dealt for some time at a model year end thinking it would be
reasonable to expect them to want to move old models. When I asked a
member of the family who owned the dealership something on the order of
"Have anything you need to get rid of quickly?" his answer was "Yeah,
all of 'em!". Great lesson!!!

On Wed, 11 May 2005 10:09:26 -0400, the inscrutable Robatoy
spake:

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

[snipperectomy]
Then why continue to rant so hard? If you're done, you're done. Hold
onto that vinegar and it'll eat a hole in your stomach. Repairs for
that are a helluva lot higher than the cost of a B&D sandah, sir.

I rant because I don't hold on to vinegar... I vent. Vinegar free here.
*G*

Meanwhile, 437 lines of rant later..."Oh, no, I don't hold on to
things." Uh, huh. giggle


It's very hard to become known 'personally' when staff turns over at the
rate theirs does. This must be their 10th 'manager' since they opened 3
years ago. You see, I haven't had time to be 'hardened' by the onslaught
of the BBB's (Big Box *******s)

You're still learning. This is a good thing. I aspire to learn
something new every day. (Every once in awhile it works.)


P.S: A man who "drops that kind of money" there usually doesn't buy
from the B&D line.

LOL... ONE piece of B&D..seriously... I bought that particular sander
because it has a tiny front roller and I thought that for the occasional
time I need to sand out a stubborn blemish from the inside corner of a
solid surface countertop that it would do the job. (BTW, did I tell you
I fabricate solid surface?). I bought the frickin' thing because of a
feature, NOT because I thought B&D makes wonderful tools.

Hey, I still have (and occasionally use) my 30+ y/o B&D tools. They
did the job they were purchased for and [insert Energizer theme here.]
With the exception of Crapsman, a tool's a tool. It's how you use it
that counts. (Verify that with your wife and mistresses.)

BTW, send pictures of the problems you have with solid counters. I
need something for which I can invent a solution.


I have tainted myself..smudge marks all over my reputation as a quality
tool buyer... I'm sorry I touched it..but I had a need...the rest of it
is all a blank...dunno WHAT happened....hell, I feel like the guy who
drove the baby-sitter home and shouldn't have done what he did...
Buy ONE piece of B&D! The guilt! =o]
Will my Lamello, Feins, Festools, Milwaukees EVER let me touch them
again??

Oh, man. I'll bet you regret that choice. I've gone with the baby
sitter option instead of a silly tool. domg OK, with that out
of the way, did you ever wonder why the bottom-of-the-line tool was
the only one who had that particular feature? Hmm, did the marketeers
see you coming, or what?


[sipperectomies continue]

In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.

So true. After I had to give up my nightly brandy(ies) with my dad
because my doctor put me on Naprosin for my OA, total sobriety ensued.

I used Naprosyn after sliding off a sandal onto a rock once. I had
been unable to walk due to the pain, but 20 minutes after the first
Naprosyn, I was up and moving again. Excellent stuff for bone pain.
800mg of Motrin 4x/day hadn't TOUCHED it.

Good going on the sobriety. I have a Blue Bunny low-carb yogurt for
my bedtime snack, taken with a capsule of acidophilus. Yum!


I'll get my satisfaction soon enough..and you're right...a cheap lesson
for me, but not for them. And it's knowing that they couldn't care
less...THAT is the part that irks me the most.

That's the way 95% of businesses now do their business. In return, I
patronize them only when they're the cheapest or only game in town.


Out with the bad air...in with the good.

Oh, very good! Holding one's breath until one turns blue does
absolutely no good with these types.


Thanks for the reminder this morning; my daily lesson.

You're welcome, sir. I'm glad you got something positive out of it as
well.

Ciao!


================================================== ==========
Help Save the Endangered Plumb Bobs From Becoming Extinct!
http://www.diversify.com/stees.html Hilarious T-shirts online
================================================== ==========

In article , Larry Jaques
wrote:

In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.

Two rules:

1) Don't sweat the small ****.

2) It's ALL small ****.

djb

--
~ Stay Calm... Be Brave... Wait for the Signs ~
------------------------------------------------------
One site: http://www.balderstone.ca
The other site, with ww linkshttp://www.woodenwabbits.com

In article .ca,
Dave Balderstone wrote:

In article , Larry Jaques
wrote:

In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.

Two rules:

1) Don't sweat the small ****.

2) It's ALL small ****.

djb

or as a lady friend of mine likes to say: "Don't sweat the petty things,
but DO pet the sweaty things.."

On Wed, 11 May 2005 20:11:27 -0600, the inscrutable Dave Balderstone
spake:

In article , Larry Jaques
wrote:

In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.

Two rules:

1) Don't sweat the small ****.

2) It's ALL small ****.

True, so I've reactivated an old sig.

--

Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet sweaty things.
----------------------------
www.diversify.com Sweat-free Website Development

Larry Jaques wrote:
In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.

Thanks for the reminder this morning; my daily lesson.

I hit 20 in July as well.

--
Odinn
RCOS #7

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

On Thu, 12 May 2005 16:56:07 -0400, the inscrutable Odinn
spake:

Larry Jaques wrote:
In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.

Thanks for the reminder this morning; my daily lesson.

I hit 20 in July as well.

Congrats, fellow old timer! I hope to survive to July 8th, my actual
AA bday.


------
We're born hungry, wet, 'n naked, and it gets worse from there.
- http://diversify.com Website Application Programming -

"Robatoy" wrote in message news:design-

One would think that in this day and age they had done that for me at
the end of the assembly line. Basic quality control is not a new idea. I
have reason to believe that a new tool will work. No? I know B&D is not
high-end, but it should at least do the job it is supposed to do, no?
You can't tell me that outright garbage is okay for the other customers
who have NOT had the exposure to quality gear?

No, garbage is not OK. It may have been just fine at the factory and been
damaged in transit or droipped in the store. I don't know and neither does
anyone else. Could have been rough seas on the way from China.




I'm approaching this from their viewpoint. Those kind of rules are
guide-lines. Those 'rules' are not like a road-sign for State Troopers
to hide behind looking for their quota. " Excuse me sir, does that sign
say SPEED LIMIT 56?"

Turns out that is a moot point as their advertised policy states 90 days.
http://tinyurl.com/co38p

Since the policy is 90 days, they should accommodate you. A store as large
as HD just can't have people at the bottom end interpreting policy. It
could make one hell of a mess. I think tose rules are pretty much roles,
not just guidlines.




*I*, on the other
hand, expect to be treated a bit more like I treat MY customers....
maybe that's my mistake, but I will never compromise that.

That is why I'd probably hire you as my contractor. When your company
reaches $100 million in sales, you'll have to rely more on the written
policy and interpretation of that policy by your underlings. I hope you can
still maintain the level of service.

I'm glad you did get a resolution though.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:aItge.1506$R13.82@trndny09...

"Robatoy" wrote in message news:design-


I'm approaching this from their viewpoint. Those kind of rules are
guide-lines. Those 'rules' are not like a road-sign for State Troopers
to hide behind looking for their quota. " Excuse me sir, does that sign
say SPEED LIMIT 56?"

Turns out that is a moot point as their advertised policy states 90 days.
http://tinyurl.com/co38p

Since the policy is 90 days, they should accommodate you. A store as
large as HD just can't have people at the bottom end interpreting policy.
It could make one hell of a mess. I think tose rules are pretty much
roles, not just guidlines.


Did you know that Southwest Airlines, one of the VERY few airlines to be
making money these days, allows ANY customer-contact employee to "interpret"
company policy on the spot if required in order to satisfy a customer? They
only require their employees to use good judgement...their _own_ good
judgement. And those are some pretty low-paid employees...most probably
making less than HD employees.

And Southwest makes one ****-pot-full of money in the toughest industry
(currently) around.

I agree with Robatoy...these aren't rules. In a well-run company, they are
guidelines.

In article , Robatoy
wrote:

Turns out that is a moot point as their advertised policy states 90 days.
http://tinyurl.com/co38p

So take it back to the store and remind them of their policy. If that
fails, their Canadian toll-free customer service number is on their web
site.

For that matter, call them first and have them call the store.

You got an answer you didn't like at the store, after screwing up
yourself, then bitched there was no email address when you could have
picked up the phone and talked to somebody at corporate who may have
been able to set things right.

Call them.

--
~ Stay Calm... Be Brave... Wait for the Signs ~
------------------------------------------------------
One site: http://www.balderstone.ca
The other site, with ww linkshttp://www.woodenwabbits.com

On Tue, 10 May 2005 21:03:06 -0400, Robatoy
wrote:

I was minding my own business some weeks ago, when I saw this nifty
cheap belt-sander by Black & Decker.

Never buy "nifty" tools.


Sorry, but no sympathy here.

B&D make crap. You know this.

They're a shop, not a rental place. Now in my book, '30 days and return
for "I don't like this"' is pretty generous anyway. But there's no other
way to know if the thing is any good, so I guess that's their cost
downside against the upside of having a self-service warehouse instead
of a shop with real staff.

But the rules are pretty plain. _30_days_. A whole month. You don't
need that long to work out if the thing is tolerably "fit for purpose",
you can do that in an afternoon. So for a returns policy that's already
pretty generous, you're just taking the **** here.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 May 2005 21:03:06 -0400, Robatoy
wrote:

I was minding my own business some weeks ago, when I saw this nifty
cheap belt-sander by Black & Decker.

Never buy "nifty" tools.


Sorry, but no sympathy here.

B&D make crap. You know this.

They're a shop, not a rental place. Now in my book, '30 days and return
for "I don't like this"' is pretty generous anyway. But there's no other
way to know if the thing is any good, so I guess that's their cost
downside against the upside of having a self-service warehouse instead
of a shop with real staff.

But the rules are pretty plain. _30_days_. A whole month. You don't
need that long to work out if the thing is tolerably "fit for purpose",
you can do that in an afternoon. So for a returns policy that's already
pretty generous, you're just taking the **** here.


Ever heard of a guarantee of merchantability?

If not, read-up on it. By the looks of your ****y post, you have a lot to
learn.

On Thu, 12 May 2005 00:46:59 GMT, "Mark Cooper"
wrote:

Ever heard of a guarantee of merchantability?

Of course - if the OP had bought one of the self-immolating "Firestorm"
drills from B&D, he'd have a point.

But who's arguing that the tool here isn't "of merchantable quality" (as
my local laws phrase it) ? The question is whether the buyer has an
entitlement to replace it simply because they don't like it (for
whatever reason) rather than arguing the stronger claim that the tool
is not at all merchantable.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message

Of course - if the OP had bought one of the self-immolating "Firestorm"
drills from B&D, he'd have a point.

Two weeks ago someone tried to give me three, brand new in the box,
"Firestorm" cordless drills, and two of BD's version of the cordless
multisaw, all still under plastic ... it raised some eyebrows when I said no
thank you.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/06/05

"The thing shuddered, and sounded like the bearings were spinning,
screaming and howling..."

The OP is arguing that the tool isn't of merchantable quality.

That's pretty much the definition of merchantability.



"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 May 2005 00:46:59 GMT, "Mark Cooper"
wrote:

Ever heard of a guarantee of merchantability?

Of course - if the OP had bought one of the self-immolating "Firestorm"
drills from B&D, he'd have a point.

But who's arguing that the tool here isn't "of merchantable quality" (as
my local laws phrase it) ? The question is whether the buyer has an
entitlement to replace it simply because they don't like it (for
whatever reason) rather than arguing the stronger claim that the tool
is not at all merchantable.