Folks -

Is Boiled Linseed Oil food-safe for use on a cutting board? The label
doesn't say either way... There is no "ingredient list" other than that it
says "Pure Linseed Oil" - no listing of dryers or additives.

I haven't used BLO before, so if'n y'all have any tips - I already know that
you are supposed to keep the soiled rags tightly wadded up in a confined
area, preferably a small box filled with woodshavings to absorb the vapors
and undried oils. (Kidding!)

John Moorhead

I'm pretty sure that it will contain metalic driers which may or may
not be food safe when cured. This link
http://www.canadianhomeworkshop.com/...g_finish.shtml
says to use walnut, tung or mineral oils for food contact surfaces.

For cutting boards you should just use mineral oil but I suspect this
whole thing is a troll.

SP -

No troll, I thought it was a fair question... The can makes no mention of
it not being food safe, or of having additives such as metallic driers. The
label says "Pure Linseed Oil, Boiled" - but have no other info.

So, straight up question: is pure linseed oil, boiled or otherwise, safe
for food surfaces use?

I may not be the most attractive fellow, but I am *not* a troll. I accept
your apology in advance.

Cheers,

John Moorhead


"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message
oups.com...
For cutting boards you should just use mineral oil but I suspect this
whole thing is a troll.

I have read that any commercially available finish is safe for food contact.
Of course, we read lots of things...
Email the manufacturer and ask them.

Pure linseed oil takes forever to dry and would probably end up
flavoring whatever was on it. Boiled linseed oil has metalic driers so
probably isn't safe for food contact. To be safe, I would say no but
then I'm posting through deja.com so you probably aren't even seeing my
response.

"John Moorhead" wrote in message
. ..
SP -

No troll, I thought it was a fair question... The can makes no mention of
it not being food safe, or of having additives such as metallic driers.
The
label says "Pure Linseed Oil, Boiled" - but have no other info.


You'll not be able to get enough of the cobalt - siccative - out of the
embrace of the cross-linked oil to be detected unless you eat the whole
board.

That said, why bother, when walnut oil cures, giving some protection from
water, and doesn't collect trash like the forever uncured mineral oil.
Linseed stinks, but it's good for prostate health - in rats, anyway.

A few months ago I ask the question about BLO being non-toxic safe for
children's toys. Send E-mail to manufacture of BLO I found in local BORG.

Reply was very emphatic; NO, don't use our product on toys. (Sounded like
an insurance / lawyer thing to me.) If the maker states not to use for toys,
I think "food safe" is right out.

Anyway, there are many who claim you must let BLO cure (that is cure, not
dry) for a couple of weeks and it becomes OK for toys. However, IMHO, that
does not remove the metallic dryers used in BLO manufactured by today's
factory process. On the other hand, these metallic dryers are such a low
density and are probably bound tightly to the cured BLO finish as to pose
no "truly significant" health risk. All bets are off if someone uses BLO
finished wood piece as teething toy for toddler.

What convinced me was the cheep price of mineral oil purchased in the local
drug store when compared to the messing around with BLO, long cure time, and
problems with the rags.

Phil

If you do decide to use BLO, warm it to 130 degrees and it will absorb
quite quickly. I recently finished a box with it and was able to apply it
warm, let it stand for 30 minutes, wipe off the excess and then let sit for
24 hrs. Repeat twice more and finish with Butchers. Makes for a nice
finish.

SteveP.

"John Moorhead" wrote in message
.. .
Folks -

Is Boiled Linseed Oil food-safe for use on a cutting board? The label
doesn't say either way... There is no "ingredient list" other than that
it says "Pure Linseed Oil" - no listing of dryers or additives.

I haven't used BLO before, so if'n y'all have any tips - I already know
that you are supposed to keep the soiled rags tightly wadded up in a
confined area, preferably a small box filled with woodshavings to absorb
the vapors and undried oils. (Kidding!)

John Moorhead

Another Phil wrote:
A few months ago I ask the question about BLO being non-toxic safe for
children's toys. Send E-mail to manufacture of BLO I found in local BORG.

Reply was very emphatic; NO, don't use our product on toys. (Sounded like
an insurance / lawyer thing to me.) If the maker states not to use for
toys,
I think "food safe" is right out.

Unless the manufacturer had explicitly had the product checked for food
safety (expert opinion, etc) and cleared with their lawyers, there is no
way in hell they are going to recommend it.

Now, the comparsion of toys to food safety isn't really fair. Children
naw at things, suck on them and possibly swallow. A child could get a
*lot* more finish internally then you could ever get from a cutting
board unless you have taken to shaving you board and placing the
shavings in your food.

PK

In article ,
says...
If you do decide to use BLO, warm it to 130 degrees and it will absorb
quite quickly. I recently finished a box with it and was able to apply it
warm, let it stand for 30 minutes, wipe off the excess and then let sit for
24 hrs. Repeat twice more and finish with Butchers. Makes for a nice
finish.

I thought it was "Once a day for a week, once a week for a year, and
once a year forever."

OK, maybe that was raw linseed oil :-).

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

In article , lgb wrote:
In article ,
says...
If you do decide to use BLO, warm it to 130 degrees and it will absorb
quite quickly. I recently finished a box with it and was able to apply it
warm, let it stand for 30 minutes, wipe off the excess and then let sit for
24 hrs. Repeat twice more and finish with Butchers. Makes for a nice
finish.

I thought it was "Once a day for a week, once a week for a year, and
once a year forever."

The way I heard it was once a day for a week, once a week for a month, once a
month for a year, once a year for life.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Another option is walnut oil. Available at your local market or health
food shop. Just as safe as eating walnuts.
Disclaimer: some people get extreme allergic reactions to nuts and nut
oils.

If you want a premium walnut oil that has been heated to cause it to
dry harder and possibly faster, you can get some he
http://tinyurl.com/d2enc
No additives at all.

Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with the above product or it's
manufacturer, but I've met him and he seems like a trustworthy guy. I
don't receive a cut on any of his sales.

I always thought that was for workbenches that you wanted a tougher finish
on.

SteveP.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , lgb
wrote:
In article ,
says...
If you do decide to use BLO, warm it to 130 degrees and it will absorb
quite quickly. I recently finished a box with it and was able to apply
it
warm, let it stand for 30 minutes, wipe off the excess and then let sit
for
24 hrs. Repeat twice more and finish with Butchers. Makes for a nice
finish.

I thought it was "Once a day for a week, once a week for a year, and
once a year forever."

The way I heard it was once a day for a week, once a week for a month,
once a
month for a year, once a year for life.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

John Moorhead wrote in message
on Monday 25 April 2005 12:54 pm:

Folks -

Is Boiled Linseed Oil food-safe for use on a cutting board?

You got a lot of 'no' answers. The correct answer is 'yes' ... with the
condition that it be allowed to completely cure before use.

Here are some of the results I found googling with "food safe wood finish'
for bait:

http://www.waterlox.com/faq.cfm?categoryid=4
Are Waterlox Original finishes food safe/non-toxic?
Once Waterlox Original finishes are completely dry (30 days), they are
non-toxic. Many customers use Waterlox Original finishes on items such as
butcher-block counter tops and cutting boards, salad bowls and bowl
turnings, knife handles and eating utensils, children’s toys and furniture,
etc. This does not apply to urethane products.

http://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/standards.htm
How safe is it,really? All Tried & True Wood Finishes comply with the inner
most circle of product safety established by the FDA: "safe for food
contact surfaces" (FDA 21,Sec 175.300). Beeswax and natural varnish resin
are FDA approved as non-toxic and non-allergic. Non-hazardous. Our
products, and or any of their ingredients, are not regulated under the
Hazardous Materials Transportation Act (Title 40) or the EPA Resource and
Recovery Act(Title 49). Our oils are non-toxic and non-flammable (Although
common sense and our label should be consulted for disposal of wiping
cloths). The use of these finishes in commercial applications is not
regulated by OSHA. No heavy metal driers. These metallic salts of cobalt
and manganese are a health risk to those who manufacure them. In use they
areconsidered a health risk only in long term exposure. Fume Free - Zero
VOC.No solventsor petroleum distillates are present in Tried & True Wood
Finishes. Therefore, there is nocompromise in environmental impact, worker
health and safety, or indoor air quality.

(note the VERY LIMITED health risks associated with metal driers)


http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/althea/FinishingAtoM.htm
CRYSTAL COAT Get a sophisticated high-gloss finish that?s also water-and
wear-resistant. Quick, easy and no-mess! Perfect for turned pens! Can be
applied to wood pens and other turnings right while they?re on the lathe!
Easy to use 6 ounce bottle. Designed as a final finish coat. Food safe
when dry. u.s.a. only

And last, but far from least:
www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/finlines/knaeb98c.pdf

If you only read ONE of these, this is the one.

Bill

Bill C. wrote:

John Moorhead wrote in message
on Monday 25 April 2005
12:54 pm:

Folks -

Is Boiled Linseed Oil food-safe for use on a cutting board?

You got a lot of 'no' answers. The correct answer is 'yes' ... with the
condition that it be allowed to completely cure before use.

And that it is in fact linseed oil that has been boiled and not some
chemist's nightmare that is sold under that label. Don't assume--make
sure.

Here are some of the results I found googling with "food safe wood finish'
for bait:

http://www.waterlox.com/faq.cfm?categoryid=4
Are Waterlox Original finishes food safe/non-toxic?
Once Waterlox Original finishes are completely dry (30 days), they
are
non-toxic. Many customers use Waterlox Original finishes on items such as
butcher-block counter tops and cutting boards, salad bowls and bowl
turnings, knife handles and eating utensils, children’s toys and
furniture, etc. This does not apply to urethane products.

http://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/standards.htm
How safe is it,really? All Tried & True Wood Finishes comply with the
inner most circle of product safety established by the FDA: "safe for food
contact surfaces" (FDA 21,Sec 175.300). Beeswax and natural varnish resin
are FDA approved as non-toxic and non-allergic. Non-hazardous. Our
products, and or any of their ingredients, are not regulated under the
Hazardous Materials Transportation Act (Title 40) or the EPA Resource and
Recovery Act(Title 49). Our oils are non-toxic and non-flammable (Although
common sense and our label should be consulted for disposal of wiping
cloths). The use of these finishes in commercial applications is not
regulated by OSHA. No heavy metal driers. These metallic salts of cobalt
and manganese are a health risk to those who manufacure them. In use they
areconsidered a health risk only in long term exposure. Fume Free - Zero
VOC.No solventsor petroleum distillates are present in Tried & True Wood
Finishes. Therefore, there is nocompromise in environmental impact, worker
health and safety, or indoor air quality.

(note the VERY LIMITED health risks associated with metal driers)

Note "only in long term exposure". So how many salads _are_ you planning to
eat out of this bowl? Note also "No heavy metal driers" regardless of
their risks.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/althea/FinishingAtoM.htm
CRYSTAL COAT Get a sophisticated high-gloss finish that?s also water-and
wear-resistant. Quick, easy and no-mess! Perfect for turned pens! Can be
applied to wood pens and other turnings right while they?re on the lathe!
Easy to use 6 ounce bottle. Designed as a final finish coat. Food safe
when dry. u.s.a. only

And last, but far from least:
www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/finlines/knaeb98c.pdf

If you only read ONE of these, this is the one.

And it says, under "precautions", "Also be sure the finish you select is
recommended for use with food or is described as food grade."

In other words, don't just assume that a finish is safe, _check_. The one
time you don't Murphy will get you. Don't assume that because the can says
"boiled linseed oil" on the outside that that is the only thing in it.

Bill

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke says...

And that it is in fact linseed oil that has been boiled and not some
chemist's nightmare that is sold under that label. Don't assume--make
sure.

BLO has always had metallic dryers. It's just that the lead dryers of
the old school BLO have been replaced by less toxic cobalt and
manganese. Boiling was necessary to dissolve the lead dryer.
Manganese and cobalt aren't toxic at low levels. Even cyanide isn't
toxic at low enough levels. At high levels over long periods of time
cobalt can cause an enlarged thyroid and manganese can interfere with
iron uptake. By far the greatest danger with these metals is breathing
the dust in a work environment where exposure amounts are off the
charts. Ingesting small amounts or even handling it in its pure form
occasionally is not dangerous. Finishes contain tiny amounts of the
driers and when it cures the driers are locked into the finish, but even
if you tipped the can and chugged it, the metallic driers wouldn't be
what made you sick.

Tried and True BLO brand is touted as being prepared the OLD way
without chemical driers. This is contrary to your "BLO has always had
metallic dryers. It's just that the lead dryers of the old school BLO
have been replaced by less toxic cobalt and manganese." Comment?

On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:47:35 -0500, Hax Planx
wrote:

J. Clarke says...

And that it is in fact linseed oil that has been boiled and not some
chemist's nightmare that is sold under that label. Don't assume--make
sure.

BLO has always had metallic dryers. It's just that the lead dryers of
the old school BLO have been replaced by less toxic cobalt and
manganese. Boiling was necessary to dissolve the lead dryer.
Manganese and cobalt aren't toxic at low levels. Even cyanide isn't
toxic at low enough levels. At high levels over long periods of time
cobalt can cause an enlarged thyroid and manganese can interfere with
iron uptake. By far the greatest danger with these metals is breathing
the dust in a work environment where exposure amounts are off the
charts. Ingesting small amounts or even handling it in its pure form
occasionally is not dangerous. Finishes contain tiny amounts of the
driers and when it cures the driers are locked into the finish, but even
if you tipped the can and chugged it, the metallic driers wouldn't be
what made you sick.

Hax Planx wrote:

J. Clarke says...

And that it is in fact linseed oil that has been boiled and not some
chemist's nightmare that is sold under that label. Don't assume--make
sure.

BLO has always had metallic dryers. It's just that the lead dryers of
the old school BLO have been replaced by less toxic cobalt and
manganese. Boiling was necessary to dissolve the lead dryer.
Manganese and cobalt aren't toxic at low levels. Even cyanide isn't
toxic at low enough levels. At high levels over long periods of time
cobalt can cause an enlarged thyroid and manganese can interfere with
iron uptake. By far the greatest danger with these metals is breathing
the dust in a work environment where exposure amounts are off the
charts. Ingesting small amounts or even handling it in its pure form
occasionally is not dangerous. Finishes contain tiny amounts of the
driers and when it cures the driers are locked into the finish, but even
if you tipped the can and chugged it, the metallic driers wouldn't be
what made you sick.

Look, the bottom line on this is to check that it's FDA approved for food
contact, not just assume it's safe because some random individual said on
USENET that it was.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

nospambob says...

Tried and True BLO brand is touted as being prepared the OLD way
without chemical driers. This is contrary to your "BLO has always had
metallic dryers. It's just that the lead dryers of the old school BLO
have been replaced by less toxic cobalt and manganese." Comment?

I don't see a BLO listed on their web site. I see Danish Oil, Varnish
Oil and Original Wood Finish. They say their products are based on
linseed oil polymerized in a traditional way, but don't explain what
that process is.

J. Clarke wrote in message on Tuesday 26
April 2005 09:04 am:

(note the VERY LIMITED health risks associated with metal driers)

Note "only in long term exposure". So how many salads _are_ you planning
to
eat out of this bowl? Note also "No heavy metal driers" regardless of
their risks.


agggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ... the sky is falling, the sky is falling!

;-)

People who manufacture these metallic salts recieve long-term exposure. And
what they do _is_ fraught with hazard. In fact, they wear much the same
protective garb as folks who process mineral oil.

However, users of salad bowls are not manufacturers of metallic salts and do
not recieve 'long term exposure'. They recieve 'intermittant / sporadic'
exposure at extremely low levels. Different animal altogether. That was a
carefully worded advertising blurb trying to sell you on the negligible
advantages of using their product over some other. Not too different from
selling 'high-fiber' foods from a processing plant located next door to a
sawmill.

So how many salads are _you_ planning to eat?

Enough to exceed the Permissable Exposure Limit (PEL) on a regular basis? I
rather doubt that. I don't think you could even approach the PEL for those
salts if you threw away the salad and actually ate the bowl.

Here are some numbers for cobalt from the National Safety Council.

"People who work in the coal mining and hard metal industry, cobalt dye
painters in porcelain factories, and workers in the ore processing and
chemical manufacturing industries may be exposed to cobalt inhalation at
higher than background levels."

Exposure Values:

* IDLH: 20 mg/m3 (as Co) (NIOSH, 1997
* NIOSH REL: TWA 0.05 mg/m3
* OSHA PEL: 0.1 mg/m3
http://www.nsc.org/library/chemical/cobalt.htm

(note: cobalt is a constituent of vitamin B-12)

and for manganese:
Exposure Values:

* IDLH: 500 mg/m3 (NIOSH, 1997)
* NIOSH REL: TWA 1 mg/m3 ST 3 mg/m3
* OSHA PEL: C 5 mg/m3 [*Note: Also see specific listings for Manganese
cyclopentadienyl tricarbonyl and Methyl cyclopentadienyl manganese
tricarbonyl.]
http://www.nsc.org/library/chemical/Maganese.htm

Note that the NIOSH REL is a Time Weighted Average (TWA) based on 10 hours
per day / 40 hours per week.


Oft-recommended mineral oil also has both a PEL and an LD50. Do a Google
search for yourself if you don't want to accept this posting from OSHA.
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguide...cognition.html

Yet, since there hasn't been any advertising against it, people on this list
just accept it as being safe for food contact surfaces. As it, indeed, is.

"All finishes are non-toxic when fully cured, despite what you may have read
or heard. Once the solvents are evaporated, the cured film is safe enough
for contact with food. This does not mean that the finish itself is safe to
gobble up. It means that additives such as driers or plasticizers are
encapsulated enough so that they do not migrate to what you?re eating. For
edible finishes, wax and shellac are the only ones I?m aware of (which is
why apples and candy are coated with these)"
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/ht...singFinish.htm

Shellac is also frequently used as a coating to retard the dissolving of
medicine ... for instance, that 81mg enteric coated aspirin doctors urge us
all to take daily.

You probably don't want to know where antifreeze ends up ... read any good
candy bar wrappers lately?

Here's the gig, as I see it. The US gubmint says BLO is non-toxic if allowed
to cure first. Reasoning on this by doing the rough math, I see that
metallic salt ingredients that were most likely in the ppm range (Too low,
in fact, to require protective labeling or even inclusion on the label at
all.) in the original container are reduced to the parts per billion range
on my salad (a few millionths, by weight, of a microgram of finish on a
comparatively huge chunk of tomato) and in the parts per trillion (or even
more dilute) range when I put the fork in my mouth.

Since I suspect that I get a larger and more frequent dose of heavy metals
than that just by breathing, I'm willing to risk eating as much of that
salad as you care to buy.

But, not from McDonalds. I, personally, think the risk is higher when you
serve that salad from a plastic bowl ... off-gassing and plastic shreds,
you know. And who knows what risks you face serving it from a colored glass
bowl?

Once it's cured, it's safe. Anything else is unsupported by fact.

I must most respectfully disagree with you.
Bill

Bill C. wrote:

J. Clarke wrote in message on Tuesday 26
April 2005 09:04 am:

(note the VERY LIMITED health risks associated with metal driers)

Note "only in long term exposure". So how many salads _are_ you planning
to
eat out of this bowl? Note also "No heavy metal driers" regardless of
their risks.


agggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ... the sky is falling, the sky is falling!

much blather about the safety of metallic salts in coatings snipped

Once it's cured, it's safe. Anything else is unsupported by fact.

Fine, find me an assertion by a physician, government agency, or some other
source that one can tell with certainty has no affiliation with the
coatings industry to the effect that ALL coatings containing metallic
driers are safe when used in contact with food. If you can't produce such
a statement then go pound sand.

I must most respectfully disagree with you.

Look, you use what you want to, but if I ever find out that you have sold me
anything that is going to come in contact with the food I eat that has
toxic metals in it WITHOUT telling me so that I can make my own decision
about the risk, my lawyers are going to tear you two or three new assholes.

Why is it so important to you that people regard coatings with toxic metal
driers as being "safe once it's cured"? Do you make metallic driers or
something?

I agree that the risk if any is probably minimal. But "probably minimal"
and "proven safe" are not the same thing. And especially when you say ALL
coatings.

Bill

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Hax Planx wrote:

nospambob says...

Tried and True BLO brand is touted as being prepared the OLD way
without chemical driers. This is contrary to your "BLO has always had
metallic dryers. It's just that the lead dryers of the old school BLO
have been replaced by less toxic cobalt and manganese." Comment?

I don't see a BLO listed on their web site. I see Danish Oil, Varnish
Oil and Original Wood Finish. They say their products are based on
linseed oil polymerized in a traditional way, but don't explain what
that process is.

From http://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/: "No Heavy Metal Driers"
From http://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/products.htm "Danish Oil is
pure, moderately polymerized linseed oil."

Seems pretty clear that their "Danish oil" is functionally boiled linseed
oil and it also seems pretty clear that they do not use metallic driers.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Look, the bottom line on this is to check that it's FDA approved for food
contact, not just assume it's safe because some random individual said on
USENET that it was.


Except that it is up to the manufacturer to prove that it's safe, and the
hoops are many, expensive and stupid.

Precisely why nobody bothers, especially as there is the blanket that all
oxygen-cured finishes are deemed safe.

The real bottom line is to realize that death is more likely from a doorknob
covered with bacteria than ingestion of cured finish.

J. Clarke says...

From http://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/: "No Heavy Metal Driers"
From http://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/products.htm "Danish Oil is
pure, moderately polymerized linseed oil."

Seems pretty clear that their "Danish oil" is functionally boiled linseed
oil and it also seems pretty clear that they do not use metallic driers.

I really didn't want to get into an argument about semantics, but the
fact is they don't have a product labeled as BLO. Your functional
equivalence statement is your assessment, not theirs or mine. I doubt
that it does behave the same way. It may be better in some ways, or it
may be worse in some ways. I'm not going to do experiments to find out
more. You can if you so desire.