On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 17:04:14 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Barry Lennox wrote:

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 10:09:07 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Barry Lennox wrote:

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:47:30 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Barry Lennox" wrote in message


Well, they should sack some of their useless staff and get their costs
under control. Amazon and Barnes & Noble can give reasonable shipping
costs so what exactly is Jet's problem?


Huge difference. Amazon, B&N are in the mail order business. Jet is
not,
and does not want to be. They want to sell through distributors. Order
the part from your local dealer.

Those are arbitrary labels, and there is no huge difference.

Amazon, B&N are NOT in the mail order business (maybe the Post Office
is) They are in the business of offering something a customer wants in
exchange for a fair price, just as Jet is (or should be)

Actually, they are in the mail order business, or more precisely the
online order business if you want to split hairs about ordering via the
Internet
not being "mail order". By that token Sears isn't in the mail order
business and Sears _invented_ the mail order business. But perhaps you're
too young to be familiar with "mail order" that actually uses the mail.

Whatever semantics or labels you use, they are still in the business
of business, ie: offering something a customer wants in exchange for a
fair price. That is a fundamental.

Too young? Hardly! I see in my 1902 Sears catalogue Stanley planes
are priced from 9c to 37c.

So you're 120 years old?


No, didn't say I was. But it's a genuine 1902 catalogue, not the 1986
reprinted version, belonged to my grandad.

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...

Umm, lots of people use to do that if they had the
time, especially since they could save about $1000
which was nearly 1/4 years salary. But I think
the dealer franchises put a stop to that long ago.
Otoh, my neighbor last fall flew half way across
the U.S. and drove his new motorhome back, saving
$10,000 over the sales price of a local dealer.
Might not be much for high living folk, but for
over 50 percent of the working people it is 3
months salary. Not bad for a 4 day trip.

Not bad, but I'm sure he wasn't happy with the close attention given these
days to holders of one-way tickets.

George wrote:


Not bad, but I'm sure he wasn't happy with the close attention given these
days to holders of one-way tickets.



What attention? Southwest has always booked me with one-way tickets, I
don't know if they even sell real round trips. I buy one-ways all the
time on other carriers. I've never noticed any extra attention from
anyone, from the salesperson to the TSA agents, because I had a one way.
In fact the TSA people don't usually even LOOK at tickets!

I've been known to book a one way to destination "A", drive to
destination "B", and book my way home from "B". I frequently don't even
know what day I'm returning.

Round trips are cheaper. Terrorists wishing to save money will buy
round trip tickets. G

Barry

In article ,
says...
Unquestionably Confused wrote:
The crux of the problem and Jamie's problem is that if the customer
PERCEIVES that they are being hosed, they will take their business
elsewhere. Perception is, in the real world, reality.

It works in the other direction too. If I call up a company and say I need
a new left-handed frobnitz, and the person I talk to on the phone says, "Aw
heck, that's not worth the paperwork to bill you for, just give me your
address and I'll send you one, no charge", they've just earned a customer
for life.

There's a couple of sayings:

1) It's a lot harder to get a new customer than to keep an existing one
happy.

2) It's a lot harder to get a old customer that you've ****ed off once to
come back again than it is to get a new one.

That pretty much exactly describes my experience with Jet.

I had two minor problems with my table saw. 1) There is a small
hex bolt that's part of the motor support assembly. It screws into
the housing of part of the motor bracket and runs through a groove in
a rod to keep it from slipping out. (The motor mount pivots on the
rod under force of gravity to keep tension on the belt.) Anyway,
the head sheared off the bolt when I screwed it in. Since the shank
of the bolt was fully screwed into the hole, it was holding the rod
in place and so I didn't worry about it at the time. (Figured I could
buy a new bolt anywhere for a few cents if I ever needed to disassemble
it.)

2) There was a crack in the fence cursor (XACTA fence, I think it is
called, looks like a Beisemeyer fence.) The crack was through one of
the slotted holes used to fine-tune the cursor setting, and it was
cracked when I unpacked it. It worked fine, and I was able to adjust
it and screw it down tight without breaking it completely.

About a year later, the cursor broke completely, so I called up Jet
to ask about getting a replacement. The lady who answered the phone
was very nice and helpful, knew exactly what I was looking for, etc,
and then said "anything else?", so I mentioned the broken bolt.
She said fine, and asked for shipping information and such. I said
"how am I going to pay for this, do you need a credit card or will
you bill me", and she said "no charge." Got the parts a couple of
days later.

Now you could argue that either or both parts were manufacturing
defects, or that they were both my fault (maybe I over tightened
the bolt, or maybe it was cracked, maybe I stepped on the cursor
or dropped something heavy on it while I was unpacking it), and it
was well over a year after I bought the saw, and well out of
warranty, but they replaced both at no charge and no questions
asked and were very pleasant about it.

Too bad the OP wasn't treated the same way. I hope this doesn't
reflect a change of policy or management at Jet.


--
John

OK - the problem I have with that theory of what businesses are in
business to do is this:

If I work hard and decide to spend money on your product, I want it to
work as advertised, and if it breaks or wears out, I want to be able to
fix it in a reasonable period of time. Something like a belt breaking
or needing to be replaced should not keep the tool out of commission for
weeks.

I mean - a table saw uses blades that you should be able to buy from
damn near any store. When the blade gets dull, or you need a different
blade for cutting plywood instead of ripping 2x, you can go anywhere to
get the blade. Can you imagine how tough it would be to work with a
tool if they used a proprietary blade that you could only get from them?
You would be at the mercy of the supply chain.

And today - with this "just in time" bull****, the stores don't stock
the parts you need. One store sells a miter gauge for a table saw, but
not the hold-down clamps. If the saw needs a belt, ant the belts
sgtretch or break or wear out, then they should stock the belts, or have
a way to get them sooner rather than later.

One other problem is that with these companies merging, buying each
ohter out, or moving offshore, is that the parts come from all over the
damn place from companies in bum**** china or wherever, and they don't
make the parts but every so many months. Or the dealer only orders
parts from Delta or a distributor every month or so - or worse -
whenever they have sold a certain volume of parts and tools per some
corporate bean counter. This is for no other reason than to hit some
target profit level dictated by some beancounter who feels that the
companies business isn't to make a tool - it's to get a return on
investment whether they sell saws or package up bags of dog****. They
don't care about your needs, or even doing a good job - they only care
about their almighty dollar!

Barry Lennox wrote:

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:47:30 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Barry Lennox" wrote in message


Well, they should sack some of their useless staff and get their costs
under control. Amazon and Barnes & Noble can give reasonable shipping
costs so what exactly is Jet's problem?


Huge difference. Amazon, B&N are in the mail order business. Jet is not,
and does not want to be. They want to sell through distributors. Order the
part from your local dealer.


Those are arbitrary labels, and there is no huge difference.

Amazon, B&N are NOT in the mail order business (maybe the Post Office
is) They are in the business of offering something a customer wants in
exchange for a fair price, just as Jet is (or should be)

Most enlightened companies understand their real role is to offer
whatever it takes to satisfy, and perhaps delight, customers and keep
them coming back. They may well "want" to deal through distributors. I
do *not* want to, and prefer to deal direct. My view is as valid as
theirs. OTOH, if they don't want customers, then fine, get rid of them
all, that will solve their annoying spares problems.


What makes you think they have useless staff?


They don't seem to get the point above, in my experience, and that of
the OP.

"USENET READER" wrote in message

If I work hard and decide to spend money on your product, I want it to
work as advertised, and if it breaks or wears out, I want to be able to
fix it in a reasonable period of time. Something like a belt breaking or
needing to be replaced should not keep the tool out of commission for
weeks.

Reasonable expectations. Parts should also be available for a few years
after a model is dicontinued.


I mean - a table saw uses blades that you should be able to buy from damn
near any store. When the blade gets dull, or you need a different blade
for cutting plywood instead of ripping 2x, you can go anywhere to get the
blade. Can you imagine how tough it would be to work with a tool if they
used a proprietary blade that you could only get from them? You would be
at the mercy of the supply chain.

That would change the dynamices of a tool buying decision. OTOH, if your
transmission fails on your Chevy, you may have to buy a GM part to get if
fixed. Sure, starters and alternators are readily available on the
aftermarket, but if you need a new door, it may have to come from a GM
dealer. You are very much at the mercy of the supply chain.


And today - with this "just in time" bull****, the stores don't stock the
parts you need. One store sells a miter gauge for a table saw, but not
the hold-down clamps. If the saw needs a belt, ant the belts sgtretch or
break or wear out, then they should stock the belts, or have a way to get
them sooner rather than later.

Maybe. If a store sell two lathes a years, should he have a belt in stock
at all times? How long to belts last? That $20 belt willl tie sup maybe
412 for a few years waiting for someone to buy it. Bandsaw blades wear out
a few times a year so they stock a lo tof them. If you are that conerned,
why don't you keep a spare in the shop? Most companies carry a stock of
parts for machines that they know will fail over time. We probably have
$20,000 in motors, hydraulip pumps, water pumps, solenoids, controllers,
etc. Some sit for a long time, but if needed, it is nice to have rahter
than have a machine down and not produce $500 an hour. If you are concerned
about your saw losing a belt late at night, keep a spare. Prudent to do so.

One other problem is that with these companies merging, buying each ohter
out, or moving offshore, is that the parts come from all over the damn
place from companies in bum**** china or wherever, and they don't make the
parts but every so many months.

Yes, that can be a problem

Or the dealer only orders parts from Delta or a distributor every month or
so - or worse - whenever they have sold a certain volume of parts and tools
per some corporate bean counter.

Roy Smith wrote:


It works in the other direction too. If I call up a company and say I need
a new left-handed frobnitz, and the person I talk to on the phone says, "Aw
heck, that's not worth the paperwork to bill you for, just give me your
address and I'll send you one, no charge", they've just earned a customer
for life.

Two stories:

I was trying to get my new digital TV setup with an outdoor antenna. This
turned out to be hard. I think I'm in some kind of signal hole. Anyway, I
bought a Winegard amplifier and was having trouble getting power to it. I
contacted Winegard support via email and got a prompt, intelligent reply. The
reply included a recommendation for a power regulated diplexer. I searched the
net looking for one and couldn't find it. I sent another email to support
asking where I could get one. The prompt reply was "I'll send you one". No
charge. I like Winegard.

I've posted here before about my Jet 18" bandsaw lacking power that I bought in
1999. It turns out they had installed a 1/2 HP motor instead of the 1 1/2 HP
motor that is spec'ed. A call to Jet customer service got a reply to the effect
of "You've got 90 days to discover that sort of problem". I asked to speak to a
supervisor and got the same result. I wrote a nice letter to the president of
WMH Tool Group, which owns Jet. I got a prompt email from his admin saying that
it had been referred to the head of the Jet division. I got a phone call and
email from him saying a new motor was on the way. No charge. The bandsaw runs
great. I like Jet.

-- Doug

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:39:16 GMT, Douglas Johnson
wrote:

Roy Smith wrote:


It works in the other direction too. If I call up a company and say I need
a new left-handed frobnitz, and the person I talk to on the phone says, "Aw
heck, that's not worth the paperwork to bill you for, just give me your
address and I'll send you one, no charge", they've just earned a customer
for life.

Two stories:

I was trying to get my new digital TV setup with an outdoor antenna. This
turned out to be hard. I think I'm in some kind of signal hole. Anyway, I
bought a Winegard amplifier and was having trouble getting power to it. I
contacted Winegard support via email and got a prompt, intelligent reply. The
reply included a recommendation for a power regulated diplexer. I searched the
net looking for one and couldn't find it. I sent another email to support
asking where I could get one. The prompt reply was "I'll send you one". No
charge. I like Winegard.

I've posted here before about my Jet 18" bandsaw lacking power that I bought in
1999. It turns out they had installed a 1/2 HP motor instead of the 1 1/2 HP
motor that is spec'ed. A call to Jet customer service got a reply to the effect
of "You've got 90 days to discover that sort of problem". I asked to speak to a
supervisor and got the same result. I wrote a nice letter to the president of
WMH Tool Group, which owns Jet. I got a prompt email from his admin saying that
it had been referred to the head of the Jet division. I got a phone call and
email from him saying a new motor was on the way. No charge. The bandsaw runs
great. I like Jet.

-- Doug


You had to go all the way to the president of Jets parent company to
get a fix for a manufacturing error and you see no problem with that.
You're too easy.

M

MikeK wrote:

....

You had to go all the way to the president of Jets parent company to
get a fix for a manufacturing error and you see no problem with that.
You're too easy.

My reading is he waited from '99 to sometime fairly recently to make
them aware of the problem and they still fixed it up at no charge...that
sounds pretty good to me, as well...

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:40:17 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

MikeK wrote:

...

You had to go all the way to the president of Jets parent company to
get a fix for a manufacturing error and you see no problem with that.
You're too easy.

My reading is he waited from '99 to sometime fairly recently to make
them aware of the problem and they still fixed it up at no charge...that
sounds pretty good to me, as well...

Ok, IF that's the case, I'd give them a thumbs up also.

M

MikeK wrote:

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:40:17 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

MikeK wrote:

...

You had to go all the way to the president of Jets parent company to
get a fix for a manufacturing error and you see no problem with that.
You're too easy.

My reading is he waited from '99 to sometime fairly recently to make
them aware of the problem and they still fixed it up at no charge...that
sounds pretty good to me, as well...

Ok, IF that's the case, I'd give them a thumbs up also.



I stated explicitly it was past the 90 days, anyway, which seems like
that would be plenty of time to have found/identified/complained
initially...I'm inferring the other, granted from the way in which it
was written.

MikeK wrote:

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:40:17 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

MikeK wrote:

...

You had to go all the way to the president of Jets parent company to
get a fix for a manufacturing error and you see no problem with that.
You're too easy.

My reading is he waited from '99 to sometime fairly recently to make
them aware of the problem and they still fixed it up at no charge...that
sounds pretty good to me, as well...

Ok, IF that's the case, I'd give them a thumbs up also.

That's what happened. I had wondered about a lack of power on resawing, even
posting some questions here. I had seen the 1/2 HP rating on the motor, but
thought it was probably a mis-print. Then I saw the amperage rating and a light
went on. I did notify them as soon as I realized there was a manufacturing
problem. -- Doug