pipe in hand, leather-patch covered elbow resting upon the arm of my
chair

It struck me as an original thought, as I don't recall being exposed to
such an idea, that wood turning has a history of being snubbed as a
valuable craft.

Consider other crafts: the glass crafts such as stained glass work,
crystal and glass shaping; textile weaving; metal working; and stone
sculpture. Additionally, within the wood crafts, reflect on carving,
intarsia, marquetry, lutherie and furniture making. There are historical
bodies and progressions of work in each field held in the highest
regard, not only through modern appreciation of museum holdings, but
during the times the pieces were created. Every craft above has been,
and remains, in demand by the ruling and upper economic segments of
society.

Castles, palaces and expensive homes were adorned with fine textiles,
silver and goldsmithed items, finely crafted furniture, ornate wood and
stone carvings in the architecture, as well as free-standing. For
hundreds to thousands of years these items have been sought after and
coveted.

This is not to say that all work in a given craft was valued equally,
but within that craft there have been craftsmen and artisans whose work
was appreciated and thus commanded great respect by society's elites,
which by and large meant that it was recognized by all society to be
highly regarded with a common desire to own similar works.

Where is the historical appreciation for wood turning? I dare say there
is none. There has been no golden era of wood turning. Kings and the
well-to-do have never sought out a turned wood item to possess as a
valuable and status indicative item. Turned wood was and remains largely
relegated to utilitarian, consumable, disposable pieces of every day
use. A wooden plate was the poor mans version of the higher economic
class's pewter, porcelain, bone china or silver dinnerware. A wooden
bowl was kitchenware, not suitable for serving or displaying in finer
settings. Looking to other products of the craft, we find the bodgers -
Itinerant folks who camped in the forests turning chair parts for a
pittance. Again, not especially valued as fine craftsmanship or
appreciated for artistic value - just components a chair maker would out
source to those further down the socioeconomic ladder.

As modern turners we are up against ingrained, historic notions of wood
turning's place in the hierarchy of desirable items. There is no widely
held belief that one should strive to own items turned from wood. Is it
any wonder the artisans of today, by and large, have to rely on other
sources of income to continue developing their body of work? The current
interest and technical developments in wood turning may turn out to be
our golden era. By many accounts it began to get footing about 35 years
ago, with great strides in acceptance by some in the upper levels of
society taking place in the last 20 years. I believe it's safe to say
that society's overall desire for wood turning in the future will owe
much to the recent and current artisans and craftsmen who have struggled
to gain recognition and acceptance among and along with the other hand
crafts.

--
"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
as 100% Americanism." -- Huey P. Long

Owen,
Can't see much wrong with being a producer of regularly utilised
products. After all, there are a lot more in the lower class than in
the ruling classes. But I take your point. Perhaps the proliferation
of salt and pepper grinders/shakers, salad bowls and the like have not
helped dismiss the concept that turning should only be utilitarian.

Unfortunately, much of the stuff being put on the market looks very
similar and, in reality, it's hard to tell one turner's work from
another's. The truly "arty" pieces that demonstrate both the artisan's
skills and the timber's qualities aren't seen that often. Perhaps
because most turners are trying to eke out some sort of an income from
their art.

If turned pieces are starting to be accepted by the upper classes,
perhaps this will provide all turners with the incentive to pursue more
elaborate and artistic work.

Paul.

--
Stop wasting wood. Timber doesn't grow on trees you know!

Again, not especially valued as fine craftsmanship or
appreciated for artistic value - just components a chair maker would out
source to those further down the socioeconomic ladder.

Though it would seem now that components need to be sourced from UP the
socioeconomic ladder given the amount of money one finds one needs to spend.

mick

Owen Lowe wrote:
pipe in hand, leather-patch covered elbow resting upon the arm of my
chair

It struck me as an original thought, as I don't recall being exposed to
such an idea, that wood turning has a history of being snubbed as a
valuable craft.

Hate to disabuse you of that notion -- but I'll bet the pipeful was good
anyway... LOL

The Royal Ontario Museum which I mentioned in a post in early March had
many turned items on display - from the 19th and 20th century (and a few
earlier). One of the chairs appeared to be the one featured in a Darlow
book.

http://www.rom.on.ca/

They had some wonderful furniture displays at the beginning of the
month. Not sure what's there now though.

Perhaps you fellows are building the golden age of turning...

Stick around for a couple of hundred years. If you're all famous then
you know. :-)

--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

"Owen Lowe" wrote in message
news
pipe in hand, leather-patch covered elbow resting upon the arm of my
chair

.. I believe it's safe to say
that society's overall desire for wood turning in the future will owe
much to the recent and current artisans and craftsmen who have struggled
to gain recognition and acceptance among and along with the other hand
crafts.


Don't equate asking price with artistry. Nor given price with appreciation.

Even the big names make things for money, not love of their art. They then
sell them to people whose purpose in purchasing them is possession rather
than admiration.

Art, in my opinion, is defined not by snob, but universal appeal. Unless
I'm in the wrong venues, that's not stuff for pedestals and glass-enclosed
cabinets, but for tables and shelves.

Turning has always been a labor intensive endeavor. A well done 12" bowl
from one piece of wood can easily take 10 hours and when you get into
segmented and stave work the time involved jumps dramatically. When you
consider that a commercial shop needs $45 to $65 per hour shop fee to stay
in business it is easy to see how expensive turning can become. The only
way to reduce prices is to use the copy lathes and mass produce an item. To
set up a high volume copy lathe is expensive. Lathe $75,000 and up, sander
$75,000 up 3 people to prepare stock, one to run lathe and one to run
sander. I run my shop with a shop fee of $25/hr but that is only possible
because of some VERY special circumstances. There is a lot of custom
business out there for the small custom shop that the big companies can't
afford to do.

--
Art Ransom
Lancaster , Texas

www.turningaround.org
"

Where is the historical appreciation for wood turning? I dare say there
is none. There has been no golden era of wood turning. Kings and the
well-to-do have never sought out a turned wood item to possess as a
valuable and status indicative item.

Not true. 19th century ornamental wood turning was not only considered
high-craft, but was one of the few crafts performed by members of royalty,
not peasants, guild members, or artisans.
http://www.the-sot.com/index.shtml

Turned wood was and remains largely
relegated to utilitarian, consumable, disposable pieces of every day
use.

I think you exagerate. There are many wood pieces that are fanciful,
permanent, and not used daily. However, there is a grain of truth in what
you say. Wood is an organic material and doesn't last as long as stone,
glass, or metal. It's not the wood's fault, but the craft person's. After
all, THEY made the decision to work with a semi-permanent material.


Dan

Owen, good post that provoked good answers. As a practicing COC, I'll
generalize from the land of the outstretched palm and conspicuous
consumer. Other areas may differ.

We bought a cheap waterfront vacation cottage years ago that's now a
modest home surrounded by the mc'mansions of the so called upper class.
'Upper' meaning newly rich in dollars, not in any true appreciation of
artistry in any medium or venue.

Most of the grandiose new homes nearby are designed by trophy wives and
'decorated' by interior brokers. The owner's are led to believe that
expensive equates to tasteful and they don't much care whether wood,
canvas, glass or pink flamingos adorn their abodes. They don't collect
art, they accumulate the artificial, a display of networth to be envied
not enjoyed. If you favor eclectic, you would would love these
residences with their huge columns that are a strange mix of all three
types of Greek architecture. As I warned, I generalize and that's rarely
a good thing.

I leave it to those of you who have forgotten about the beautiful and
ornate woodturnings of the past to wonder why a craft you consider was
once mostly treen and chair legs is having such a hard time going from
the kitchen to the parlor.

OK, now that you've thought about it, you still wonder wottenhell Arch
is trying to say. Likely, not much!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

By many accounts it began to get footing about 35 years
ago, with great strides in acceptance by some in the upper levels of
society taking place in the last 20 years. I believe it's safe to say
that society's overall desire for wood turning in the future will owe
much to the recent and current artisans and craftsmen who have struggled
to gain recognition and acceptance among and along with the other hand
crafts.

Since the 'art' of woodturning was revived in the 1930s & 1940s by
James Prestini and Bob Stocksdale...and soon after by Rude Osolnik and
a few others, it's hard to tell whether we are IN the golden age, or
already past it. I'd argue that it began maybe 20 years ago, as
galleries and shows began to feature it, and really took off maybe 15
years ago as lathe manufacturers and tool makers gave us machines
designed from the ground up especially for woodturning. I've only been
turning since 1988, and I didn't even know where to buy a 'good' 4 jaw
scroll chuck or carbide tipped tools.... I had the "4 in 1" chuck,
which depended on rubber bands to hold parts together, and thought
Grizzly was a good source for machinery!

The developement of glues, finishes and a way to trade information on
the internet/WWW also speeded up interchange of ideas and techniques

Finally, the growth of wood suppliers who would process some trees
into CHUNKS, instead of just boards made a wide variety of wood
available world-wide. and gave us an amazing selection of timer to
work with.

I suspect that when the history is finally written in a hundred years,
the years from 1975-2000 will be looked on as the great creative
spurt. Whether we can do more than merely embellish and refine in the
future, remains to be seen.

Arch,
As someone who built homes like the ones that you are talking about,
those are for people who have more dollars than they do sense. They
also help drive the 'art' market by buying things that don't have much
use, but are wonderful to look at.
robo hippy

.... wood turning has a history of being snubbed as a
valuable craft.

Much snippage.

Dude, you've got a serious inferiority complex.

:-)

Interesting thread. I think I just received a bonus. I joined the
newsgroup to get an education on turning wood. As it turns out I also get
an education on wood turning.

However, I still think it's fun. Even though my work may never be
appreciated in society, I don't plan to quit

10sc.

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 4:51:36 -0800, Art Ransom wrote
(in message ):

Turning has always been a labor intensive endeavor. A well done 12" bowl
from one piece of wood can easily take 10 hours and when you get into
segmented and stave work the time involved jumps dramatically. When you
consider that a commercial shop needs $45 to $65 per hour shop fee to stay
in business it is easy to see how expensive turning can become. The only
way to reduce prices is to use the copy lathes and mass produce an item. To
set up a high volume copy lathe is expensive. Lathe $75,000 and up, sander
$75,000 up 3 people to prepare stock, one to run lathe and one to run
sander. I run my shop with a shop fee of $25/hr but that is only possible
because of some VERY special circumstances. There is a lot of custom
business out there for the small custom shop that the big companies can't
afford to do.



10 hours for a 12" bowl!?! are you talking about in the past? like before
electric motors?

C & S wrote:
... wood turning has a history of being snubbed as a
valuable craft.

Reminds me of something in a TV production of one of Jane Austen's
novels. I don't recall the context, but someone is told they 'could
always set up a turning room' in a most condescending voice. I would
assume that they were talking of taking up ornamental turning as a past
time.

--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/toolrest/

In article ,
WillR wrote:

The Royal Ontario Museum which I mentioned in a post in early March had
many turned items on display - from the 19th and 20th century (and a few
earlier). One of the chairs appeared to be the one featured in a Darlow
book.

http://www.rom.on.ca/

Does the museum know the names of the pre-20th century turners? Can
anyone here name a pre-20th century turner?

--
"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
as 100% Americanism." -- Huey P. Long

In article , (Bart V)
wrote:

Do feel too bad, I got into turning because it looked more promising,
as far as trying to make a few bucks at it, than to continue doing
stained glass. I was producing really cool stuff, original designs
(check my website for some pics) etc. - no elites to cater to here
either and in fact, literally having a hard time trying to give it
away...

There's a difference though... Stained and leaded glass has been valued
for centuries in cathedrals as well as a major selling point in old
homes. Styles, skills and markets affect all arts and crafts but in the
case of glass there have been very clear periods of time when demand was
evident throughout society. I don't see instances in history in which
wood turning has enjoyed that respect and desire of ownership.

--
"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
as 100% Americanism." -- Huey P. Long

In article kQT1e.1285$Vx1.630@attbi_s01,
"Dan Bollinger" wrote:

Not true. 19th century ornamental wood turning was not only considered
high-craft, but was one of the few crafts performed by members of royalty,
not peasants, guild members, or artisans.
http://www.the-sot.com/index.shtml

Turned wood was and remains largely
relegated to utilitarian, consumable, disposable pieces of every day
use.

I think you exagerate. There are many wood pieces that are fanciful,
permanent, and not used daily. However, there is a grain of truth in what
you say. Wood is an organic material and doesn't last as long as stone,
glass, or metal. It's not the wood's fault, but the craft person's. After
all, THEY made the decision to work with a semi-permanent material.

I looked through the Society of Ornamental Turners website and found it
interesting and fascintating. BUT... I didn't see anything about
recognized and demanded OT artists of history. Yes, there was quite the
movement in the 1800s though it appears to me to be more in line with a
gentleman's hobbycraft rather than producing work to meet society's
demand for a recognized artform.

When you mentioned the organic nature of wood, it sparked a rather
obvious realization: Wood is not and has not been scarce. Unlike
precious metals, silk, fine wool, marble, even glass - keep in mind that
glass was very expensive and rare, even 300 years ago; you were the top
of society to have glass windows prior to that - generally speaking,
wood has been readily available everywhere populations of people
settled. It has never been a particularly scarce material and is quite
suitable to fashioning into unnumerable different purposes. In this
light, material that is in abundance is used for the most utilitarian
objects; is discarded and replaced as needed; does not cause the owner
to view the piece as having any intrinsic value. Plastic today is wood's
historic lot in life.

Just scan across the objects on your desk. How many are made of wood?
(Not counting turned objects you have made.) There are 9 on my desk, a
majority of which are pencils. I don't treat these items with a level of
care that I would if they were silver, marble, glass, etc. Why? Because
the material itself has little value - hell, it's almost as if the stuff
grows on trees.

--
"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
as 100% Americanism." -- Huey P. Long

Owen Lowe wrote:

In article ,
WillR wrote:

The Royal Ontario Museum which I mentioned in a post in early March
had many turned items on display - from the 19th and 20th century
(and a few earlier). One of the chairs appeared to be the one
featured in a Darlow book.

http://www.rom.on.ca/

Does the museum know the names of the pre-20th century turners? Can
anyone here name a pre-20th century turner?


John Jacob Holtzapffel - Late 18th through Early 19th Century

"Owen Lowe" wrote in message
news

Does the museum know the names of the pre-20th century turners? Can
anyone here name a pre-20th century turner?

Peter Romanov

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 4:17:06 -0800, George wrote
(in message ):


"Owen Lowe" wrote in message
news

Does the museum know the names of the pre-20th century turners? Can
anyone here name a pre-20th century turner?

Peter Romanov



Bertram Jones

Owen Lowe questioned, "Can anyone here name a pre 20th-century turner?"
***********************************************
Anyone here naming Arch is a liar!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Owen Lowe wrote:

Does the museum know the names of the pre-20th century turners? Can
anyone here name a pre-20th century turner?


Nehemiah Wallington (1598-1658) (admittedly known for his journals, not
his turnings)

Owen Lowe wrote:

When you mentioned the organic nature of wood, it sparked a rather
obvious realization: Wood is not and has not been scarce. Unlike
precious metals, silk, fine wool, marble, even glass - keep in mind that
glass was very expensive and rare,

Most art is as common as, well dirt and rocks. The first paintings were
chipped on rock faces. Later paintings used ground up dirt and water with
rock for a canvas. Painters still use pigments made from ground up rock and
vegetable matter. Potters use clay - not as readily available as plain
dirt, but probably as common as trees. Wool is as common as sheep and the
first woolens were likely very utilitarian. Marble is as common as rock,
where it occurs - Vermont, for example and the northern shores of the
Mediterranean. Glass is now as common as dirt and made from it.

The only items you mention as scarce are still scarce - precious metals
(and stones) and silk (pure silk from the worm).

Gee, I like woodturning but I don't have any illusions about it.


John



Owen Lowe wrote:
pipe in hand, leather-patch covered elbow resting upon the arm of my
chair

It struck me as an original thought, as I don't recall being exposed to
such an idea, that wood turning has a history of being snubbed as a
valuable craft.

Consider other crafts: the glass crafts such as stained glass work,
crystal and glass shaping; textile weaving; metal working; and stone
sculpture. Additionally, within the wood crafts, reflect on carving,
intarsia, marquetry, lutherie and furniture making. There are historical
bodies and progressions of work in each field held in the highest
regard, not only through modern appreciation of museum holdings, but
during the times the pieces were created. Every craft above has been,
and remains, in demand by the ruling and upper economic segments of
society.

Castles, palaces and expensive homes were adorned with fine textiles,
silver and goldsmithed items, finely crafted furniture, ornate wood and
stone carvings in the architecture, as well as free-standing. For
hundreds to thousands of years these items have been sought after and
coveted.

This is not to say that all work in a given craft was valued equally,
but within that craft there have been craftsmen and artisans whose work
was appreciated and thus commanded great respect by society's elites,
which by and large meant that it was recognized by all society to be
highly regarded with a common desire to own similar works.

Where is the historical appreciation for wood turning? I dare say there
is none. There has been no golden era of wood turning. Kings and the
well-to-do have never sought out a turned wood item to possess as a
valuable and status indicative item. Turned wood was and remains largely
relegated to utilitarian, consumable, disposable pieces of every day
use. A wooden plate was the poor mans version of the higher economic
class's pewter, porcelain, bone china or silver dinnerware. A wooden
bowl was kitchenware, not suitable for serving or displaying in finer
settings. Looking to other products of the craft, we find the bodgers -
Itinerant folks who camped in the forests turning chair parts for a
pittance. Again, not especially valued as fine craftsmanship or
appreciated for artistic value - just components a chair maker would out
source to those further down the socioeconomic ladder.

As modern turners we are up against ingrained, historic notions of wood
turning's place in the hierarchy of desirable items. There is no widely
held belief that one should strive to own items turned from wood. Is it
any wonder the artisans of today, by and large, have to rely on other
sources of income to continue developing their body of work? The current
interest and technical developments in wood turning may turn out to be
our golden era. By many accounts it began to get footing about 35 years
ago, with great strides in acceptance by some in the upper levels of
society taking place in the last 20 years. I believe it's safe to say
that society's overall desire for wood turning in the future will owe
much to the recent and current artisans and craftsmen who have struggled
to gain recognition and acceptance among and along with the other hand
crafts.

I'm still lucubrating on "lucubrating".....................Barry


"Arch" wrote in message
...
Owen Lowe questioned, "Can anyone here name a pre 20th-century turner?"
***********************************************
Anyone here naming Arch is a liar!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Don't you think archaeologists in the future will dig up some of our
earliest attempts at woodturning (which to us looked like almost perfectly
formed ashtrays, tire knockers and potato mashers) and say to themselves.
"What........ the....... Hell.......is......... that?"

Barry



"Eddie Munster" wrote in message
...
Gee, I like woodturning but I don't have any illusions about it.


John



Owen Lowe wrote:
pipe in hand, leather-patch covered elbow resting upon the arm of my
chair

It struck me as an original thought, as I don't recall being exposed to
such an idea, that wood turning has a history of being snubbed as a
valuable craft.

Consider other crafts: the glass crafts such as stained glass work,
crystal and glass shaping; textile weaving; metal working; and stone
sculpture. Additionally, within the wood crafts, reflect on carving,
intarsia, marquetry, lutherie and furniture making. There are historical
bodies and progressions of work in each field held in the highest
regard, not only through modern appreciation of museum holdings, but
during the times the pieces were created. Every craft above has been,
and remains, in demand by the ruling and upper economic segments of
society.

Castles, palaces and expensive homes were adorned with fine textiles,
silver and goldsmithed items, finely crafted furniture, ornate wood and
stone carvings in the architecture, as well as free-standing. For
hundreds to thousands of years these items have been sought after and
coveted.

This is not to say that all work in a given craft was valued equally,
but within that craft there have been craftsmen and artisans whose work
was appreciated and thus commanded great respect by society's elites,
which by and large meant that it was recognized by all society to be
highly regarded with a common desire to own similar works.

Where is the historical appreciation for wood turning? I dare say there
is none. There has been no golden era of wood turning. Kings and the
well-to-do have never sought out a turned wood item to possess as a
valuable and status indicative item. Turned wood was and remains largely
relegated to utilitarian, consumable, disposable pieces of every day
use. A wooden plate was the poor mans version of the higher economic
class's pewter, porcelain, bone china or silver dinnerware. A wooden
bowl was kitchenware, not suitable for serving or displaying in finer
settings. Looking to other products of the craft, we find the bodgers -
Itinerant folks who camped in the forests turning chair parts for a
pittance. Again, not especially valued as fine craftsmanship or
appreciated for artistic value - just components a chair maker would out
source to those further down the socioeconomic ladder.

As modern turners we are up against ingrained, historic notions of wood
turning's place in the hierarchy of desirable items. There is no widely
held belief that one should strive to own items turned from wood. Is it
any wonder the artisans of today, by and large, have to rely on other
sources of income to continue developing their body of work? The current
interest and technical developments in wood turning may turn out to be
our golden era. By many accounts it began to get footing about 35 years
ago, with great strides in acceptance by some in the upper levels of
society taking place in the last 20 years. I believe it's safe to say
that society's overall desire for wood turning in the future will owe
much to the recent and current artisans and craftsmen who have struggled
to gain recognition and acceptance among and along with the other hand
crafts.

No. Wood rots.



"Barry N. Turner" wrote in message
Don't you think archaeologists in the future will dig up some of our
earliest attempts at woodturning (which to us looked like almost perfectly
formed ashtrays, tire knockers and potato mashers) and say to themselves.
"What........ the....... Hell.......is......... that?"

Derek Hartzell wrote:
No. Wood rots.


If that were always true we would not have "amber", or petrified forests
-- or petrified wooden items.

And of course we have fossils for the record..

And the lifetime depends on the climate to some degree.

Besides some archaeologists study the relatively recent past...
Otherwise they would not have uncovered the Huron Villages near
Penatanguishine (Lake Huron/Georgian Bay area)


--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

Barry,
it's already happening. I've been recently contacted by an
archeologist working on Gauls villlage (so ~2000 or 3000 years old),
who found what she thought to be the remain of a turned object. it
appeared to be what remains when you hollow a bowl between centers,
with the tailstock in place (ala Robin Wood): the core, which you
remove just at the end.

Pascal

"Barry N. Turner" wrote in message .. .
Don't you think archaeologists in the future will dig up some of our
earliest attempts at woodturning (which to us looked like almost perfectly
formed ashtrays, tire knockers and potato mashers) and say to themselves.
"What........ the....... Hell.......is......... that?"

Barry

You're right, with rapid burial and then water to replace the wood with
soluble rock, there can be fossilization. But this is extremely rare.

"WillR" wrote in message
...
Derek Hartzell wrote:
No. Wood rots.


If that were always true we would not have "amber", or petrified forests
-- or petrified wooden items.

And of course we have fossils for the record..

And the lifetime depends on the climate to some degree.

Besides some archaeologists study the relatively recent past...
Otherwise they would not have uncovered the Huron Villages near
Penatanguishine (Lake Huron/Georgian Bay area)


--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

Well that is the dream of many. Time to charge up my metal detector.
Maybe 500 years from now they will have wood detectors, but I don't
think so.

A house only needs one good salad bowl.

However in conjunction with other tools, then you're cooking with
gasoline. But as sad as it sounds I think very few pure lathe products
are useful. I am going through a pen making phase as most people will at
least once. So I'm just giving them away. How many wooden vessels can a
house withstand? Will I be destined for that. So many an evening I
looked around for a hunk of wood just to turn. Just to make a handle for
a file. All for the sake of spinning it off. If only it paid real money.

It is so damned easy to get hooked on. Then like a junkie your stopping
at nothing to justify your woodturning habit.

Yes some people make good money on a lathe, and some people become rock
stars. Maybe we should all be in the basement with a karaoke machine?

John




Barry N. Turner wrote:
Don't you think archaeologists in the future will dig up some of our
earliest attempts at woodturning (which to us looked like almost perfectly
formed ashtrays, tire knockers and potato mashers) and say to themselves.
"What........ the....... Hell.......is......... that?"

Barry

"Eddie Munster" wrote in message
...
Well that is the dream of many. Time to charge up my metal detector.
Maybe 500 years from now they will have wood detectors, but I don't
think so.

A house only needs one good salad bowl.


Anyone who has ever placed a metal or plastic bowl of fresh popcorn in his
lap knows the value of a wooden popcorn bowl. Then there are other dry
service types, and the unique gift of an original....

No wonder they called him Peter the Great!

Peter Romanov

Arch

Good take on the neighbors! I also find the newly loaded to be every bit as
uninformed as the newly graduated!
It seems they want to have taste and class, but they just cant get over the
fact that they have a few extra bucks in their pockets. I would rather keep
a piece of my work than sell it to someone who would not appreciate it -
even if they are willing to part with some money to buy it.....wait a
minute, am I crazy - of course I will sell it to them, but I will jack up
the price a bit!

Ray Sandusky
Brentwood, TN (land of the newly rich)



"Arch" wrote in message
...
Owen, good post that provoked good answers. As a practicing COC, I'll
generalize from the land of the outstretched palm and conspicuous
consumer. Other areas may differ.

We bought a cheap waterfront vacation cottage years ago that's now a
modest home surrounded by the mc'mansions of the so called upper class.
'Upper' meaning newly rich in dollars, not in any true appreciation of
artistry in any medium or venue.

Most of the grandiose new homes nearby are designed by trophy wives and
'decorated' by interior brokers. The owner's are led to believe that
expensive equates to tasteful and they don't much care whether wood,
canvas, glass or pink flamingos adorn their abodes. They don't collect
art, they accumulate the artificial, a display of networth to be envied
not enjoyed. If you favor eclectic, you would would love these
residences with their huge columns that are a strange mix of all three
types of Greek architecture. As I warned, I generalize and that's rarely
a good thing.

I leave it to those of you who have forgotten about the beautiful and
ornate woodturnings of the past to wonder why a craft you consider was
once mostly treen and chair legs is having such a hard time going from
the kitchen to the parlor.

OK, now that you've thought about it, you still wonder wottenhell Arch
is trying to say. Likely, not much!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings