The manufacturer requires that a surge protector be installed to safeguard the electronics on the lathe. Is one really necessary in the UK?

It is a good Idea to use surge protection with any type of electronic
controls. It does not matter where you are electrical surges can damage or
destroy electronic components.

Steven Raphael
Ithaca Mi
http://www.geocities.com/steven_raph...turnings1.html
"Tony the Turner" wrote in
message ...

The manufacturer requires that a surge protector be installed to
safeguard the electronics on the lathe. Is one really necessary in the
UK?


--
Tony the Turner

Tony - I sold electrical products for over 40 years and was around for
the introduction of surge surpression. Basically a surge surpressor is
an insurance policy for electronics. You spend a small amount once and
protect an expensive piece of equipment. ALWAYS WORTH THE COST!

Just MHO,

The Other Bruce
================================================== ========================


Steven Raphael wrote:
It is a good Idea to use surge protection with any type of electronic

controls. It does not matter where you are electrical surges can
damage or
destroy electronic components.

Steven Raphael
Ithaca Mi
http://www.geocities.com/steven_raph...turnings1.html
"Tony the Turner" wrote
in
message ...

The manufacturer requires that a surge protector be installed to
safeguard the electronics on the lathe. Is one really necessary in
the
UK?


--
Tony the Turner

It would seem to me that you could make one pretty easily. You'd need
two of the 110 type and some rewiring. Our 110 is half of the 220 which
comes into your house -- one of the dumber things with which we are
having to deal because of historical reasons.

Bill

Eddie Munster wrote:
I have thought about this too. I would buy one but don't see one for 240.



Tony the Turner wrote:

The manufacturer requires that a surge protector be installed to
safeguard the electronics on the lathe. Is one really necessary in the
UK?

Thanks for the advice. I have sourced a UK spec protector for 18GBpounds which is about $33 at current exchange rate. It is contained in a replacement wall socket. Have fitted it and fingers crossed!

Supplier was Speedfix who have a UK website www.speedfix.com.

Tony

The surge protectors without earth ground does very little.
In fact, anything that is effective in a 'power cord'
protectors is already inside that electronics. The effective
surge protectors makes a less than 3 meter connection to surge
protection. The component called surge protection is always
required. Sometimes we must install a surge protector to make
that surge protection connection. The plug-in protector does
not provide this AND avoids the discussion. Example of
effective protectors that are far more effective and typically
cost about £1 per protected appliance:
http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse06.htm

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. This
being what ineffective (and typically grossly overpriced)
plug-in protectors fear you might learn.

Tony the Turner wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I have sourced a UK spec protector for
18GBpounds which is about $33 at current exchange rate. It is
contained in a replacement wall socket. Have fitted it and fingers
crossed!

Supplier was Speedfix who have a UK website www.speedfix.com.

Tony

--
Tony the Turner

The best protection is to unplug it when not in use.

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 07:57:25 -0500, w_tom wrote:

The surge protectors without earth ground does very little.
In fact, anything that is effective in a 'power cord'
protectors is already inside that electronics. The effective
surge protectors makes a less than 3 meter connection to surge
protection. The component called surge protection is always
required. Sometimes we must install a surge protector to make
that surge protection connection. The plug-in protector does
not provide this AND avoids the discussion. Example of
effective protectors that are far more effective and typically
cost about £1 per protected appliance:
http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse06.htm

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. This
being what ineffective (and typically grossly overpriced)
plug-in protectors fear you might learn.

Tony the Turner wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I have sourced a UK spec protector for
18GBpounds which is about $33 at current exchange rate. It is
contained in a replacement wall socket. Have fitted it and fingers
crossed!

Supplier was Speedfix who have a UK website www.speedfix.com.

Tony

--
Tony the Turner

Unplugging assumes the human is reliable. Unplugging
assumes that destructive transients don't occur during normal
operation. Unplugging for protection a least reliable
solution. At £1 per protected appliance, the 'whole house'
protectors is more reliable and cost effective. Protection so
reliable that electronics in high transient areas just don't
suffer damage and don't unplug. The secret. Protection is
not defined by the protector. Protection is defined by an
item 'out of sight' and therefore 'out of mind'. The earthing
system. A protector is only as effective as the earthing
system it connects to. More reliable than any human.

Phisherman wrote:
The best protection is to unplug it when not in use.

On 13 Mar 2005 12:18:26 -0800, wrote:

Tony - I sold electrical products for over 40 years and was around for
the introduction of surge surpression. Basically a surge surpressor is
an insurance policy for electronics. You spend a small amount once and
protect an expensive piece of equipment. ALWAYS WORTH THE COST!

Just MHO,


Sadly true

Around a year ago the audible alarm in my SL Waber "wavetracker" began
to scream. A surge had come through frying a resistor and the zener
diode contained within, but the connected electronics didn't suffer at
all. My surge device died that the computer may live.

So yes, surge protection devices, the good ones at least, are worth
every penny you'll spend on it.

BTW, I got my Wavetracker repaired since Tripp Lite bought the Waber
company and immediately ceased production of what I think is one of
the best devices ever made for the task.

"The surge protector sacrificed itself to save the
electronics" is a classic myth. First, any surge protectors
that fails due to a transient is grossly undersized and
totally ineffective. Effective protectors SHUNT (don't stop,
block, or absorb) the transient - and remain functional.

Second, to promote the myth, many *feel* the protector sits
between electronics and the incoming transient. Mechanically
- yes. Electrically the protector and electronics are
confronted by the transient simultaneously. They connect in
parallel. Protector connects to AC mains just like another
light bulb. Again, they are called shunt mode devices. To
sit between transient and electronics, it must be a series
mode device.

Third, so what really happened? Protector was so grossly
undersized as to be damaged by a transient that could not
overwhelm protection inside the adjacent electronics.
Electronics contain internal protection. But the protector
can be undersized and damaged. Then the naive recommend more
of these damaged protectors. If the protector was properly
sized, then the human would never even know a transient
existed.

Again, electronics already contain effective protection.
But that protection assumes destructive transients are earthed
to not overwhelm electronics' internal protection. It is
called 'whole house' protection - as was installed even 70
years ago. So inexpensive and so reliable that your incoming
phone lines has one installed, for free, by the telco.

Unfortunately, we still build new buildings as if the
transistor did not exist. Then we let hearsay speculation
claim "the surge protector sacrificed itself to ...". In
reality, an effective, properly sized, and properly earthed
'whole house' protector makes that transient insignificant.
An effective protector earths the destructive transient,
remains functional, and leaves the human completely unaware
that a transient even occurred. That is the difference
between grossly overpriced, undersized, and ineffective
plug-in protectors. No earth ground means no effective
protection.

Just another reason to grossly undersize the protector. The
naive will then recommend and buy more of these $15 and $50
protectors. Effective 'whole house' protector costs about $1
per protected appliance.

BTW, SL Waber once sold the same plug-in protectors sold by
Tripplite, APC, etc. But SL Waber was also honest. This
statement was on SL Waber EP63 Power Master protectors:
This Surge suppressor is not a lightning arrestor and may
not protect against lightning induced voltage surges.
Why would a name like Tripplite or Belkin make the same
circuit any more effective? It always comes back to the
bottom line: a protector is only as effective as its earth
ground. No earth ground means no effective protection. If
not selling effective protectors, then grossly under sizing a
protector means increased profits due to less costs and
sales. The 'sacrificial protector' is another myth that sells
ineffective protectors.

LL wrote:
On 13 Mar 2005 12:18:26 -0800, wrote:
Tony - I sold electrical products for over 40 years and was around for
the introduction of surge surpression. Basically a surge surpressor is
an insurance policy for electronics. You spend a small amount once and
protect an expensive piece of equipment. ALWAYS WORTH THE COST!

Just MHO,

Sadly true

Around a year ago the audible alarm in my SL Waber "wavetracker" began
to scream. A surge had come through frying a resistor and the zener
diode contained within, but the connected electronics didn't suffer at
all. My surge device died that the computer may live.

So yes, surge protection devices, the good ones at least, are worth
every penny you'll spend on it.

BTW, I got my Wavetracker repaired since Tripp Lite bought the Waber
company and immediately ceased production of what I think is one of
the best devices ever made for the task.

No matter what the load, the protection circuit would not have failed
due to the load because it is in electrical parallel (with the load)

The Wavetracker is/was unique for a consumer surge protection device
in that in is uses some very fast response components (zener diode,
gas tube) and the usual MOVs as well as chokes for each outlet.

These devices do shunt the spike to ground. Go large enough with a
spike and they will fail the component - then the next component in
line takes up the slack. For my device the first and fastest item in
line (zener diode) is the one that failed.

The "protection" you speak of other devices (computers, TVs, etc.) is
the transformer in it's power supply. Do you really want a big spike
to get in your expensive electronics?


On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:59:05 -0500, w_tom wrote:

"The surge protector sacrificed itself to save the
electronics" is a classic myth. First, any surge protectors
that fails due to a transient is grossly undersized and
totally ineffective. Effective protectors SHUNT (don't stop,
block, or absorb) the transient - and remain functional.

Second, to promote the myth, many *feel* the protector sits
between electronics and the incoming transient. Mechanically
- yes. Electrically the protector and electronics are
confronted by the transient simultaneously. They connect in
parallel. Protector connects to AC mains just like another
light bulb. Again, they are called shunt mode devices. To
sit between transient and electronics, it must be a series
mode device.

Third, so what really happened? Protector was so grossly
undersized as to be damaged by a transient that could not
overwhelm protection inside the adjacent electronics.
Electronics contain internal protection. But the protector
can be undersized and damaged. Then the naive recommend more
of these damaged protectors. If the protector was properly
sized, then the human would never even know a transient
existed.

Again, electronics already contain effective protection.
But that protection assumes destructive transients are earthed
to not overwhelm electronics' internal protection. It is
called 'whole house' protection - as was installed even 70
years ago. So inexpensive and so reliable that your incoming
phone lines has one installed, for free, by the telco.

Unfortunately, we still build new buildings as if the
transistor did not exist. Then we let hearsay speculation
claim "the surge protector sacrificed itself to ...". In
reality, an effective, properly sized, and properly earthed
'whole house' protector makes that transient insignificant.
An effective protector earths the destructive transient,
remains functional, and leaves the human completely unaware
that a transient even occurred. That is the difference
between grossly overpriced, undersized, and ineffective
plug-in protectors. No earth ground means no effective
protection.

Just another reason to grossly undersize the protector. The
naive will then recommend and buy more of these $15 and $50
protectors. Effective 'whole house' protector costs about $1
per protected appliance.

BTW, SL Waber once sold the same plug-in protectors sold by
Tripplite, APC, etc. But SL Waber was also honest. This
statement was on SL Waber EP63 Power Master protectors:
This Surge suppressor is not a lightning arrestor and may
not protect against lightning induced voltage surges.
Why would a name like Tripplite or Belkin make the same
circuit any more effective? It always comes back to the
bottom line: a protector is only as effective as its earth
ground. No earth ground means no effective protection. If
not selling effective protectors, then grossly under sizing a
protector means increased profits due to less costs and
sales. The 'sacrificial protector' is another myth that sells
ineffective protectors.

LL wrote:
On 13 Mar 2005 12:18:26 -0800, wrote:
Tony - I sold electrical products for over 40 years and was around for
the introduction of surge surpression. Basically a surge surpressor is
an insurance policy for electronics. You spend a small amount once and
protect an expensive piece of equipment. ALWAYS WORTH THE COST!

Just MHO,

Sadly true

Around a year ago the audible alarm in my SL Waber "wavetracker" began
to scream. A surge had come through frying a resistor and the zener
diode contained within, but the connected electronics didn't suffer at
all. My surge device died that the computer may live.

So yes, surge protection devices, the good ones at least, are worth
every penny you'll spend on it.

BTW, I got my Wavetracker repaired since Tripp Lite bought the Waber
company and immediately ceased production of what I think is one of
the best devices ever made for the task.

No paragraph even implied that the protector circuit was
damaged due to a load. The 'shunt mode' protector circuit was
so grossly undersized that a transient (not the load) damaged
an undersized protector. The Wavetracker protector was damaged
by a transient that confronted electronics simultaneously and
that was too small to overwhelm protection inside the adjacent
electronics. Electronics internal protection protected the
appliance. Point one: the grossly undersized Wavtracker did
as excepted of any grossly undersized protector. It
prematurely failed. Effective protectors shunt the load and
remain functional.

As described, the Wavetracker sounds equivalent to most
plug-in, consumer protector devices. They all have fast
response components. Note the slowest responding device on
your list was the gas discharge tube (GDT). Some even have a
minimal inline choke. However which is this ground the
Wavetracker shunts to? Safety (equipment) ground or earth
ground? There is a major difference - electrically. Second
point: if a typically destructive transient is grounded to
receptacle safety ground, well, that transient must travel how
many feet back to earth ground? 50 feet maybe? So for 50
feet that transient is now inducing transients on all other,
adjacent wires? What kind of protection is that? Protection
made ineffective by a long connection to earth ground while
bundled with other wires. Induced transients created.

Third, wire impedance is major part of a protector circuit.
We apply numbers for a typically destructive transient.
Numbers - something so often missing to recommend an
ineffective plug-in protector. Wire provides maybe less than
0.2 ohms resistance, but has maybe 130 ohms impedance. Will a
trivial 100 amp transient shunted by that Wavetracker take the
130 ohm path to earth? Of course not. That would leave the
Wavetracker and protected electronics at less than 13,000
volts relative to earth ground. If the protected electronics
is at 13,000 volts, then a transient will find other
destructive paths to earth via that electronics. And so we
have another major problem with adjacent protectors. They can
even contribute to damage of the adjacent appliance.
Protector attached to power cord can even shunt a transient
destructively through the adjacent electronics to earth
ground.

A transient on one wire was provided, by the Wavetracker,
potentially destructive paths to earth ground via
electronics. Just another problem with adjacent protectors.
They are too close to transistors and too far from earth
ground to be effective. That trivial 100 amp transient is
made irrelevant when shunted less than 3 meters at the
earthing point. Effective solution is called a 'whole house'
protector.

Described are reasons why shunt protectors adjacent to
appliances are not effective. Wire impedance is large due to
distance. Wire impedance is increased when we include
splices, sharp bends, and other complications. If that
Wavetracker were farther from electronics and substantially
closer to single point earth ground, then the Wavetracker
would have shunted to earth before transient got close to
electronics. But again, the Wavetracker was so pathetically
undersized as to be damaged by one transient anyway. A
transient too small to overwhelm protection inside the
adjacent electronics damaged a grossly undersized Wavetracker.

Yes, electronics has internal protection that includes
transformer and other components. Why let that transient get
near to electronics by placing a protector adjacent to
electronics? A transient so large as to damage the
Wavetracker was still too small to overwhelm protection inside
the adjacent electronics. Internal appliance protection is
that superior. And internal appliance protection is made even
better when the protector is located close to earth ground.

First three of many reasons says the Wavetracker was not
effective. One, induced surges. Two, too much wire impedance
to earth ground thereby encouraging the transient to find
destructive earthing paths via the adjacent electronics. And
three, a Wavetracker so undersized as to be damaged by what
was really a trivial transient? A transient so small that it
did not also damage the adjacent electronics? What kind of
protection is that? Ineffective.

Again, effective protector is located less than 3 meters to
earth ground. A transient made so trivial by a properly
located protector as to not overwhelm protection already
inside electronics.

But now we have the most important fourth point. The
protector is not protection. Protector is only a connection
to protection. Protection is earth ground. Yes, distance to
and quality of that earth ground determines whether internal
electronic protection will work or will be overwhelmed.
Again, a most important number for effective protection -
'less than 10 foot' connection to a single point earth
ground. Notice the difference between this post and so many
others. This post also provides the perspective of numbers.

LL wrote:
No matter what the load, the protection circuit would not have failed
due to the load because it is in electrical parallel (with the load)

The Wavetracker is/was unique for a consumer surge protection device
in that in is uses some very fast response components (zener diode,
gas tube) and the usual MOVs as well as chokes for each outlet.

These devices do shunt the spike to ground. Go large enough with a
spike and they will fail the component - then the next component in
line takes up the slack. For my device the first and fastest item in
line (zener diode) is the one that failed.

The "protection" you speak of other devices (computers, TVs, etc.) is
the transformer in it's power supply. Do you really want a big spike
to get in your expensive electronics?