I posted this at rec.woodworking, and was told I would probably get a better
answer here.

I am making a small pedestal table, and got a hunk of maple, split, planed,
squared, and turned the pedestal, ans put three coats of shellac on it. Now
this wood was pretty much as green as you can get, but I read that stuff
should be turned green. I haven't been doing this for long, and this is the
first large piece I have ever turned. I figured the coats of shellac would
seal it, and keep it from splitting. Was i correct to assume this? anything
else I need to know before I go ahead and put this thing together?


Also while I'm at it, should stuff be turned green? and how should it be
treated afterward?

Thanks in advance from a newbie.

comments inline below

"js" wrote in message
...
I posted this at rec.woodworking, and was told I would probably get a
better
answer here.

I am making a small pedestal table, and got a hunk of maple, split,
planed,
squared, and turned the pedestal, ans put three coats of shellac on it.
Now
this wood was pretty much as green as you can get


First and huge mistake. There are times and places for turning green wood.
THIS project wasn't either.


but I read that stuff should be turned green.


Second mistake. Ignore what you read. g Third mistake. You kept reading!

Where, per chance, did you read this? Who was the author? I'm going to
guess that either the book made the error of making a broad statement like
"it's easier to turn green wood" or "it's preferrable to turn green wood" or
you make the mistake of generalizing what you read. Like I said above,
there are uses for green woood turning but this wasn't it.



first large piece I have ever turned. I figured the coats of shellac would
seal it, and keep it from splitting. Was i correct to assume this?


No. A simple Shellac finish is mainly a wax and waxes allow moisture
movement through them. Slowly, sure. But it doesn't completely seal the wood
like a hard film building finish. I assume you've sealed all areas (ends
too) and the turned piece is around 4" diameter max and it's all in one
piece so it's fairly long, right? You've set up some stress in that wood
that could (COULD ... you just never know) cause it to split, check, and/or
warp. There's still water in there and it WILL come out one way or another.
A long, thin, wet spindle will likely warp.


anything else I need to know before I go ahead and put this thing
together?


Make a duplicate right now and do it right so that when the first one is
destroyed you'll have one ready to go.


Also while I'm at it, should stuff be turned green?



Sure. Now, what stuff are you talking about? No simple answers here. This
isn't woodworking, you know! g For your pedastel, you certainly can start
it green but you should carefully dry it to the same moisture content as the
surrounding environment. Then it won't move or crack. It's still a gamble
because there are no guarantees in the drying process either. Personally,
in this instance, I would dry the piece of wood first and then turn it. You
don't waste the turning time when your drying process turns bad. It's not
like you're hollowing it or doing something terribly difficult so the dry
wood turning is fine.

I do a lot (actually the vast majority) of my work with green wood and
either let it dry/warp/crack naturally (gives nice character to the piece
that I can work with) or dry it in a number of different ways after the
turning.



and how should it be treated afterward?



That's a whole 'nuther book! Or, actually, a series of books. Everything
depends on so many factors and each decision you make along the way. It all
depends on what you want to achieve too. I HIGHLY recommend finding another
woodturner to speak to. The best is to join a local woodturning club and
ask questions. You can only get so much out of books and videos and the
chaotic/incomplete nature of online answers.

If your pedastel HASN'T warped or cracked yet then I say great. I certainly
hope it doesn't. I also certainly won't place any bet that it won't in the
future. Like I've said before.... there's no easy answers and some pieces
that you just know will have problems come out just fine. Others cause all
kinds of problems that nobody would have suspected. You just never know.
And that's just how I like it. (but I do like to have the odds on my side!)

- Andrew

I just put three or four coats on the outside. Ends have not been sealed. it
has been sitting for about a week now, and no checking, cracking, splitting
yet.

I think i'll just set it aside, and see how it turns out. I'm in no hurry to
finish the table anyways. I'll chalk it up to a lesson learned, and not
bother with green wood in the future.

I dont consider it a huge mistake. My first large turning project, and I
learned something that will suit me well for the rest of my life. a free
piece of maple is a small price to pay for learning said lesson.

Thanks for your input.

"AHilton" wrote in message
...
comments inline below

"js" wrote in message
...
I posted this at rec.woodworking, and was told I would probably get a
better
answer here.

I am making a small pedestal table, and got a hunk of maple, split,
planed,
squared, and turned the pedestal, ans put three coats of shellac on it.
Now
this wood was pretty much as green as you can get


First and huge mistake. There are times and places for turning green wood.
THIS project wasn't either.


but I read that stuff should be turned green.


Second mistake. Ignore what you read. g Third mistake. You kept
reading!

Where, per chance, did you read this? Who was the author? I'm going to
guess that either the book made the error of making a broad statement like
"it's easier to turn green wood" or "it's preferrable to turn green wood"
or
you make the mistake of generalizing what you read. Like I said above,
there are uses for green woood turning but this wasn't it.



first large piece I have ever turned. I figured the coats of shellac
would
seal it, and keep it from splitting. Was i correct to assume this?


No. A simple Shellac finish is mainly a wax and waxes allow moisture
movement through them. Slowly, sure. But it doesn't completely seal the
wood
like a hard film building finish. I assume you've sealed all areas (ends
too) and the turned piece is around 4" diameter max and it's all in one
piece so it's fairly long, right? You've set up some stress in that wood
that could (COULD ... you just never know) cause it to split, check,
and/or
warp. There's still water in there and it WILL come out one way or
another.
A long, thin, wet spindle will likely warp.


anything else I need to know before I go ahead and put this thing
together?


Make a duplicate right now and do it right so that when the first one is
destroyed you'll have one ready to go.


Also while I'm at it, should stuff be turned green?



Sure. Now, what stuff are you talking about? No simple answers here.
This
isn't woodworking, you know! g For your pedastel, you certainly can
start
it green but you should carefully dry it to the same moisture content as
the
surrounding environment. Then it won't move or crack. It's still a
gamble
because there are no guarantees in the drying process either. Personally,
in this instance, I would dry the piece of wood first and then turn it.
You
don't waste the turning time when your drying process turns bad. It's not
like you're hollowing it or doing something terribly difficult so the dry
wood turning is fine.

I do a lot (actually the vast majority) of my work with green wood and
either let it dry/warp/crack naturally (gives nice character to the piece
that I can work with) or dry it in a number of different ways after the
turning.



and how should it be treated afterward?



That's a whole 'nuther book! Or, actually, a series of books. Everything
depends on so many factors and each decision you make along the way. It
all
depends on what you want to achieve too. I HIGHLY recommend finding
another
woodturner to speak to. The best is to join a local woodturning club and
ask questions. You can only get so much out of books and videos and the
chaotic/incomplete nature of online answers.

If your pedastel HASN'T warped or cracked yet then I say great. I
certainly
hope it doesn't. I also certainly won't place any bet that it won't in
the
future. Like I've said before.... there's no easy answers and some pieces
that you just know will have problems come out just fine. Others cause
all
kinds of problems that nobody would have suspected. You just never know.
And that's just how I like it. (but I do like to have the odds on my
side!)

- Andrew

"js" wrote in message
...
I posted this at rec.woodworking, and was told I would probably get a
better
answer here.

I am making a small pedestal table, and got a hunk of maple, split,
planed,
squared, and turned the pedestal, ans put three coats of shellac on it.
Now
this wood was pretty much as green as you can get, but I read that stuff
should be turned green. I haven't been doing this for long, and this is
the
first large piece I have ever turned. I figured the coats of shellac would
seal it, and keep it from splitting. Was i correct to assume this?
anything
else I need to know before I go ahead and put this thing together?


Also while I'm at it, should stuff be turned green? and how should it be
treated afterward?

Thanks in advance from a newbie.



My first thought was "horrors" but you are dealing with a spindle and if the
pith (the center of the tree) is not included in your piece you may well get
away with it if it drys fairly slowly. I would however go and coat the ends
so they dry more slowly and see what happens; also, keep it from obvously
hot and dry locations so you don't get rapid surface and end drying.

Good luck with it.

Billh

Welcome js, I don't think Andrew meant "not bother with unstable green
wood in the future" as it is very much used by turners for many
reasons. I happen to believe that it is easier to turn, less dusty and
it's a short time between log & lathe. Keep on turning it and learning
with the rest of us. You are probably experienced in woodworking and
it's unlikely that you ever made furniture out of green wood. I don't
advise it...... but then a lot of bodgers did. Arch

Fortiter,

Andrew was too modest and self-effacing to suggest to you a particularly
efficacious method of treating and turning green wood -- namely, LDD. This
has been the topic of numerous discussions on this NG. If you are
interested, please contact me by private email as we don't want the camel
herders all excited!*G*

Leif



"js" wrote in message
...
I just put three or four coats on the outside. Ends have not been sealed.
it
has been sitting for about a week now, and no checking, cracking,
splitting
yet.

I think i'll just set it aside, and see how it turns out. I'm in no hurry
to
finish the table anyways. I'll chalk it up to a lesson learned, and not
bother with green wood in the future.

I dont consider it a huge mistake. My first large turning project, and I
learned something that will suit me well for the rest of my life. a free
piece of maple is a small price to pay for learning said lesson.

Thanks for your input.

"AHilton" wrote in message
...
comments inline below

"js" wrote in message
...
I posted this at rec.woodworking, and was told I would probably get a
better
answer here.

I am making a small pedestal table, and got a hunk of maple, split,
planed,
squared, and turned the pedestal, ans put three coats of shellac on
it.
Now
this wood was pretty much as green as you can get


First and huge mistake. There are times and places for turning green
wood.
THIS project wasn't either.


but I read that stuff should be turned green.


Second mistake. Ignore what you read. g Third mistake. You kept
reading!

Where, per chance, did you read this? Who was the author? I'm going to
guess that either the book made the error of making a broad statement
like
"it's easier to turn green wood" or "it's preferrable to turn green
wood"
or
you make the mistake of generalizing what you read. Like I said above,
there are uses for green woood turning but this wasn't it.



first large piece I have ever turned. I figured the coats of shellac
would
seal it, and keep it from splitting. Was i correct to assume this?


No. A simple Shellac finish is mainly a wax and waxes allow moisture
movement through them. Slowly, sure. But it doesn't completely seal the
wood
like a hard film building finish. I assume you've sealed all areas (ends
too) and the turned piece is around 4" diameter max and it's all in one
piece so it's fairly long, right? You've set up some stress in that wood
that could (COULD ... you just never know) cause it to split, check,
and/or
warp. There's still water in there and it WILL come out one way or
another.
A long, thin, wet spindle will likely warp.


anything else I need to know before I go ahead and put this thing
together?


Make a duplicate right now and do it right so that when the first one is
destroyed you'll have one ready to go.


Also while I'm at it, should stuff be turned green?



Sure. Now, what stuff are you talking about? No simple answers here.
This
isn't woodworking, you know! g For your pedastel, you certainly can
start
it green but you should carefully dry it to the same moisture content as
the
surrounding environment. Then it won't move or crack. It's still a
gamble
because there are no guarantees in the drying process either.
Personally,
in this instance, I would dry the piece of wood first and then turn it.
You
don't waste the turning time when your drying process turns bad. It's
not
like you're hollowing it or doing something terribly difficult so the
dry
wood turning is fine.

I do a lot (actually the vast majority) of my work with green wood and
either let it dry/warp/crack naturally (gives nice character to the
piece
that I can work with) or dry it in a number of different ways after the
turning.



and how should it be treated afterward?



That's a whole 'nuther book! Or, actually, a series of books.
Everything
depends on so many factors and each decision you make along the way. It
all
depends on what you want to achieve too. I HIGHLY recommend finding
another
woodturner to speak to. The best is to join a local woodturning club
and
ask questions. You can only get so much out of books and videos and the
chaotic/incomplete nature of online answers.

If your pedastel HASN'T warped or cracked yet then I say great. I
certainly
hope it doesn't. I also certainly won't place any bet that it won't in
the
future. Like I've said before.... there's no easy answers and some
pieces
that you just know will have problems come out just fine. Others cause
all
kinds of problems that nobody would have suspected. You just never
know.
And that's just how I like it. (but I do like to have the odds on my
side!)

- Andrew

I can assure you that I am not too modest or self-effacing to suggest
anything. Please do not use my name to present your own ideas.

- Andrew


"Leif Thorvaldson" wrote in message
...
Andrew was too modest and self-effacing to suggest to you a particularly
efficacious method of treating and turning green wood -- namely, LDD.
This
has been the topic of numerous discussions on this NG. If you are
interested, please contact me by private email as we don't want the camel
herders all excited!*G*

Leif

JS, you might just get away with it. You split it out; so I assume that it
doesn't include the pith. Maple is less prone to splitting than many other
woods, especially if it is straight grained. Seal the ends and let it dry
slowly in a cool, moderately humid location and it may not split. It will go
a little oval, however. After a year or two, check for roundness with
calipers and don't be surprised if it's out of round by 1/8". Otherwise, it
will probably be fine. The bodgers did it that way for hundreds of years.
--
Marshall Gorrow
Hogansburg, NY USA
http://mgorrow.tripod.com/
"js" wrote in message
...
I posted this at rec.woodworking, and was told I would probably get a
better
answer here.

I am making a small pedestal table, and got a hunk of maple, split,
planed,
squared, and turned the pedestal, ans put three coats of shellac on it.
Now
this wood was pretty much as green as you can get, but I read that stuff
should be turned green. I haven't been doing this for long, and this is
the
first large piece I have ever turned. I figured the coats of shellac would
seal it, and keep it from splitting. Was i correct to assume this?
anything
else I need to know before I go ahead and put this thing together?


Also while I'm at it, should stuff be turned green? and how should it be
treated afterward?

Thanks in advance from a newbie.