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Woodturning (rec.crafts.woodturning) To discuss tools, techniques, styles, materials, shows and competitions, education and educational materials related to woodturning. All skill levels are welcome, from art turners to production turners, beginners to masters. |
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#1
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Fingernail grind
Is a fingernail grind the same as am Ellsworth grind?
I've read of the advantages to the side grind but are the disadvantages? I have a few small detail gouges that were purchased with the fingernail grind and was wondering if there'd be any benefit to putting that grind on a 1/2" spindle gouge. Wondering if it would make hollowing out end grain easier or harder. Shifting gears - I'm trying to wrap my head around what I've read about bowl gouges. I've read that using a spindle gouge as a bowl gouge could break the gouge. I'm assuming we're talking about large pieces here not the cups or small boxes that I would make. I'm also assuming that the difference between hollowing end grain and hollowing face grain is significant - or am I doing the typical newbie over think here? Thanx, Vic -- There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who don't |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Fingernail grind
Hello Vic,
The Ellsworth Grind is designed for the 5/8 inch deep fluted bowl gouge. It has a nose angle of 60 degrees and a swept back side grind that is best obtained with the Ellsworth Jig. I don't consider it to be the same as the fingernail grind used on spindle gouges. For spindle gouges, I generally grind a 30 to 35 degree nose bevel and swing the wings back similar to the Ellsworth Grind. This way you can use the spindle gouge in a scraping cut if desired. It is the spindle roughing gouge that they recommend that one not use for bowls. The reason for this is the small extension of the gouge that goes into the handle. This is the area where they are likely to break and often do. I personally use two spindle gouges: a 1/2 inch Crown spindle gouge with a 35 degree bevel and swept back wings and a 3/8 inch Hamlet spindle gouge also ground with the same grind as the 1/2 inch. Plus, of course, the roughing gouge which is about 1-3/8 inch wide. My roughing gouge is actually a Robert Sorby Spindle gouge with a roughing Gouge grind on it, which is probably about 45 degrees. The spindle roughing gouge I've just described will work fine for little boxes and the outside of bowls; however, the bevel angle is too sharp for hollowing bowls. You can use them to hollow End grain boxes by first drilling a hole to the depth to be hollowed on center. The with the spindle gouge you go in and cut up toward about 10:00 o'clock and pull it back toward the top of the box while cutting with the left side of the swept back wing. I hope this helps, if not let me know. Fred Holder http://www.morewoodturning.net On Nov 7, 9:55*am, "Vic Baron" wrote: Is a fingernail grind the same as am Ellsworth grind? I've read of the advantages to the side grind but are the disadvantages? I have a few small detail gouges that were purchased with the fingernail grind and was wondering if there'd be any benefit to putting that grind on a 1/2" spindle gouge. Wondering if it would make hollowing out end grain easier or harder. Shifting gears - I'm trying to wrap my head around what I've read about bowl gouges. I've read that using a spindle gouge as a bowl gouge could break the gouge. I'm assuming we're talking about large pieces here not the cups or small boxes that I would make. I'm also assuming that the difference between hollowing end grain and hollowing face grain is significant - or am I doing the typical newbie over think here? Thanx, Vic -- There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who don't |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Fingernail grind
Hi Fred -
Thanx for the explanation. I can visualize what you are saying. Have to give it a try! If using the tool rest across the face of the end grain cup and using a 1/2 gouge - what would you say would me the (safest?) max depth you could hollow out? Vic "Fred Holder" wrote in message ... Hello Vic, The Ellsworth Grind is designed for the 5/8 inch deep fluted bowl gouge. It has a nose angle of 60 degrees and a swept back side grind that is best obtained with the Ellsworth Jig. I don't consider it to be the same as the fingernail grind used on spindle gouges. For spindle gouges, I generally grind a 30 to 35 degree nose bevel and swing the wings back similar to the Ellsworth Grind. This way you can use the spindle gouge in a scraping cut if desired. It is the spindle roughing gouge that they recommend that one not use for bowls. The reason for this is the small extension of the gouge that goes into the handle. This is the area where they are likely to break and often do. I personally use two spindle gouges: a 1/2 inch Crown spindle gouge with a 35 degree bevel and swept back wings and a 3/8 inch Hamlet spindle gouge also ground with the same grind as the 1/2 inch. Plus, of course, the roughing gouge which is about 1-3/8 inch wide. My roughing gouge is actually a Robert Sorby Spindle gouge with a roughing Gouge grind on it, which is probably about 45 degrees. The spindle roughing gouge I've just described will work fine for little boxes and the outside of bowls; however, the bevel angle is too sharp for hollowing bowls. You can use them to hollow End grain boxes by first drilling a hole to the depth to be hollowed on center. The with the spindle gouge you go in and cut up toward about 10:00 o'clock and pull it back toward the top of the box while cutting with the left side of the swept back wing. I hope this helps, if not let me know. Fred Holder http://www.morewoodturning.net On Nov 7, 9:55 am, "Vic Baron" wrote: Is a fingernail grind the same as am Ellsworth grind? I've read of the advantages to the side grind but are the disadvantages? I have a few small detail gouges that were purchased with the fingernail grind and was wondering if there'd be any benefit to putting that grind on a 1/2" spindle gouge. Wondering if it would make hollowing out end grain easier or harder. Shifting gears - I'm trying to wrap my head around what I've read about bowl gouges. I've read that using a spindle gouge as a bowl gouge could break the gouge. I'm assuming we're talking about large pieces here not the cups or small boxes that I would make. I'm also assuming that the difference between hollowing end grain and hollowing face grain is significant - or am I doing the typical newbie over think here? Thanx, Vic -- There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who don't |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Fingernail grind
On 11/07/2011 08:55 AM, Vic Baron wrote:
Is a fingernail grind the same as am Ellsworth grind? More or less. A fingernail grind is usually associated with a spindle gouge, whereas the Ellsworth grind more specifically refers to the particular grind that the Ellsworth jig produces on a specific set of bowl gouges. 5/8" IIRC. They share the characteristic that the wings are ground back. A more generic term is "Irish grind" or as you say below "side grind". I've read of the advantages to the side grind but are the disadvantages? You can cut a much wider shaving with the side grind if you use the side rather than the tip. The advantage is it removes a lot of wood really fast. The disadvantage is if you get a catch it'll likely be an ugly one. It's an easy grind to control once you figure out how it wants to cut, and it's a flexible grind - can be used in both a pushing or pulling cut as well as shear scraping to good affect. You'll want to experiment on scrap wood though to learn the ropes. I have a few small detail gouges that were purchased with the fingernail grind and was wondering if there'd be any benefit to putting that grind on a 1/2" spindle gouge. Wondering if it would make hollowing out end grain easier or harder. I would. Shifting gears - I'm trying to wrap my head around what I've read about bowl gouges. I've read that using a spindle gouge as a bowl gouge could break the gouge. I'm assuming we're talking about large pieces here not the cups or small boxes that I would make. I'm also assuming that the difference between hollowing end grain and hollowing face grain is significant - or am I doing the typical newbie over think here? I think Fred hit the nail on the head regarding spindle/roughing gouges. There is a noticeable difference between cutting face grain and end grain. It's a similar situation to planing face grain and end grain on a board. Lots easier to plane face grain... ....Kevin -- Kevin Miller Juneau, Alaska http://www.alaska.net/~atftb "In the history of the world, no one has ever washed a rented car." - Lawrence Summers |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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Fingernail grind
Hello Vic,
Probably at your skill level 1-1/2" to 2" maximum, beyond that depth you will probably need a hollowing tool. Something like the Hunter Carbide tools. His little straight tool would probably take you safely to three inches. End grain is difficult to cut with a gouge when you lose the ability to ride the bevel. Fred Holder m http://www.morewoodturning.net On Nov 7, 1:35*pm, "Vic Baron" wrote: Hi Fred - Thanx for the explanation. I can visualize what you are saying. Have to give it a try! If using the tool rest across the face of the end grain cup and using a 1/2 gouge - what would you say would me the (safest?) max depth you could hollow out? Vic "Fred Holder" wrote in message ... Hello Vic, The Ellsworth Grind is designed for the 5/8 inch deep fluted bowl gouge. It has a nose angle of 60 degrees and a swept back side grind that is best obtained with the Ellsworth Jig. I don't consider it to be the same as the fingernail grind used on spindle gouges. For spindle gouges, I generally grind a 30 to 35 degree nose bevel and swing the wings back similar to the Ellsworth Grind. This way you can use the spindle gouge in a scraping cut if desired. It is the spindle roughing gouge that they recommend that one not use for bowls. The reason for this is the small extension of the gouge that goes into the handle. This is the area where they are likely to break and often do. I personally use two spindle gouges: a 1/2 inch Crown spindle gouge with a 35 degree bevel and swept back wings and a 3/8 inch Hamlet spindle gouge also ground with the same grind as the 1/2 inch. Plus, of course, the roughing gouge which is about 1-3/8 inch wide. My roughing gouge is actually a Robert Sorby Spindle gouge with a roughing Gouge grind on it, which is probably about 45 degrees. The spindle roughing gouge I've just described will work fine for little boxes and the outside of bowls; however, the bevel angle is too sharp for hollowing bowls. You can use them to hollow End grain boxes by first drilling a hole to the depth to be hollowed on center. The with the spindle gouge you go in and cut up toward about 10:00 o'clock and pull it back toward the top of the box while cutting with the left side of the swept back wing. I hope this helps, if not let me know. Fred Holder http://www.morewoodturning.net On Nov 7, 9:55 am, "Vic Baron" wrote: Is a fingernail grind the same as am Ellsworth grind? I've read of the advantages to the side grind but are the disadvantages? I have a few small detail gouges that were purchased with the fingernail grind and was wondering if there'd be any benefit to putting that grind on a 1/2" spindle gouge. Wondering if it would make hollowing out end grain easier or harder. Shifting gears - I'm trying to wrap my head around what I've read about bowl gouges. I've read that using a spindle gouge as a bowl gouge could break the gouge. I'm assuming we're talking about large pieces here not the cups or small boxes that I would make. I'm also assuming that the difference between hollowing end grain and hollowing face grain is significant - or am I doing the typical newbie over think here? Thanx, Vic -- There are 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who don't |
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