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Woodturning (rec.crafts.woodturning) To discuss tools, techniques, styles, materials, shows and competitions, education and educational materials related to woodturning. All skill levels are welcome, from art turners to production turners, beginners to masters. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good as another.
Please forgive my long, boring and predictable "anti-eponym rant" that you older members remember and expect. I don't remember inserting tool bits into a CRS bar held in turned wooden handles then, but I remember as long ago as the late 30's using engine lathe tool holders with variously ground bits free hand (not in the tool post) for turning wooden guitar and violin string tightening keys and keg spigots on a beat up old South Bend. I suspect that many of you machinist-woodturners have used inserted bits for turning wood for years and didn't know you were using an "Oland tool". Not that there is anything wrong with that and I'm sure Mr. Oland was a fine man and accomplished woodturner, but he wasn't the first to insert tool bits for turning wood. OK, I am showing my petty prejudices (aka prejudgment) about naming tools, techniques and turned forms and their embellishments for a person. Eponyms may include fewer words, but are often more confusing than indicative and more promotion than invention. Certainly less descriptive. Except of course, for the "Arch Tool", the "Arch cut" and the "Arch paint & puncture creation" I have to admit it's much easier to recognize my (in)famous work by eponym than by "dull scraper", "big catch" and "garish abomination." BTW, I see that full length tool bits inserted into small aluminum handles are being advertized as Sorby's "micro hollowing tools" No eponyms for them yet, but sure to come, even if they aren't anything new. There, I've said it again! What me, a cynic? Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good as another.
Arch wrote:
There, I've said it again! What me, a cynic? Heaven forbid. It's what us COCs are here for. It's in the charter... -- Kevin Miller Juneau, Alaska http://www.alaska.net/~atftb In a recent poll, seven out of ten hard drives preferred Linux. |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good asanother.
Arch,
Good to hear from you again, it has been a while. Thought maybe you were running out of gas, which is different from hot air. You didn't get around to the Ellsworth/Irish/swept back gouges. Same difference though. robo hippy On Feb 8, 3:55*pm, mac davis wrote: On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:36:13 -0500, (Arch) wrote: Please forgive my long, boring and predictable "anti-eponym rant" that you older members remember and expect. * I don't remember inserting tool bits into a CRS bar held in turned wooden handles then, but I remember as long ago as the late 30's using engine lathe tool holders with variously ground bits free hand (not in the tool post) for turning wooden guitar and violin string tightening keys and keg spigots on a beat up old South Bend. I suspect that many of you machinist-woodturners have used inserted bits for turning wood for years and didn't know you were using an "Oland tool". *Not that there is anything wrong with that and I'm sure Mr. Oland was a fine man and accomplished woodturner, but he wasn't the first to insert tool bits for turning wood. * OK, I am showing my petty prejudices (aka prejudgment) about naming tools, techniques and turned forms and their *embellishments for a person. Eponyms may include fewer words, but are often more confusing than indicative and more promotion than invention. Certainly less descriptive. Except of course, for the "Arch Tool", the "Arch cut" and the "Arch paint & puncture creation" *I have to admit it's much easier to recognize my (in)famous work by eponym than by "dull scraper", "big catch" and "garish abomination." * BTW, I see that full length tool bits inserted into small aluminum handles are being advertized as Sorby's "micro hollowing tools" *No eponyms for them yet, but sure to come, even if they aren't anything new. There, I've said it again! *What me, a cynic? * Turn to Safety, *Arch * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings If they're using full size bits in that little holder, the Sorby might end up being called "Aluminum handle that breaks when used".. mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good asanother.
Arch,
Nothing more than marketing. Give it a "brand" name and some people will just have to have it. Personally, I never look at names. I look at features. If there is something unique or I see some sort of advantage I might buy the tool. What they call it is simply not relevant. |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good as another.
Arch wrote:
Please forgive my long, boring and predictable "anti-eponym rant" that you older members remember and expect. I don't remember inserting tool bits into a CRS bar held in turned wooden handles then, but I remember as long ago as the late 30's using engine lathe tool holders with variously ground bits free hand (not in the tool post) for turning wooden guitar and violin string tightening keys and keg spigots on a beat up old South Bend. I suspect that many of you machinist-woodturners have used inserted bits for turning wood for years and didn't know you were using an "Oland tool". Not that there is anything wrong with that and I'm sure Mr. Oland was a fine man and accomplished woodturner, but he wasn't the first to insert tool bits for turning wood. snippers There, I've said it again! What me, a cynic? Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter Nor did Columbus discover America. -- Gerald Ross Cochran, GA All the world's a stage, and I missed rehearsal. |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good as another.
On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 05:10:17 -0800 (PST), ebd wrote:
Arch, Nothing more than marketing. Give it a "brand" name and some people will just have to have it. Personally, I never look at names. I look at features. If there is something unique or I see some sort of advantage I might buy the tool. What they call it is simply not relevant. I've never bought into the thing where if someone licenses their name to a tool the tool suddenly becomes better and worth a much higher price.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good asanother.
I guess I don't have to worry about a line of 'robo hippy' tools,
though I always thought the name had possibilities. Still doing better at getting famous than I am at getting rich. robo hippy On Feb 9, 8:58*am, mac davis wrote: On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 05:10:17 -0800 (PST), ebd wrote: Arch, Nothing more than marketing. Give it a "brand" name and some people will just have to have it. Personally, I never look at names. I look at features. If there is something unique or I see some sort of advantage I might buy the tool. What they call it is simply not relevant. I've never bought into the thing where if someone licenses their name to a tool the tool suddenly becomes better and worth a much higher price.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good as another.
On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:19:33 -0800 (PST), robo hippy
wrote: I think the Reed Gray line sounds more "High Dollar".. I guess I don't have to worry about a line of 'robo hippy' tools, though I always thought the name had possibilities. Still doing better at getting famous than I am at getting rich. robo hippy On Feb 9, 8:58*am, mac davis wrote: On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 05:10:17 -0800 (PST), ebd wrote: Arch, Nothing more than marketing. Give it a "brand" name and some people will just have to have it. Personally, I never look at names. I look at features. If there is something unique or I see some sort of advantage I might buy the tool. What they call it is simply not relevant. I've never bought into the thing where if someone licenses their name to a tool the tool suddenly becomes better and worth a much higher price.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good asanother.
I guess that if I did come out with some tools, I would take the Doug
Thompson approach, factory direct to keep quality high, and price cheap because that is what I would want if I was the customer. robo hippy On Feb 9, 11:24*pm, mac davis wrote: On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:19:33 -0800 (PST), robo hippy wrote: I think the Reed Gray line sounds more "High Dollar".. I guess I don't have to worry about a line of 'robo hippy' tools, though I always thought the name had possibilities. Still doing better at getting famous than I am at getting rich. robo hippy On Feb 9, 8:58*am, mac davis wrote: On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 05:10:17 -0800 (PST), ebd wrote: Arch, Nothing more than marketing. Give it a "brand" name and some people will just have to have it. Personally, I never look at names. I look at features. If there is something unique or I see some sort of advantage I might buy the tool. What they call it is simply not relevant. I've never bought into the thing where if someone licenses their name to a tool the tool suddenly becomes better and worth a much higher price.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good as another.
robo hippy wrote:
I guess that if I did come out with some tools, I would take the Doug Thompson approach, factory direct to keep quality high, and price cheap because that is what I would want if I was the customer. Being that my gouges have about an inch and a half of usable flute left, those look pretty nice. Curious though - do you regrind them to a different profile or leave them as is? Sure wish I had a pair to try - one w/the V groove and one with the U. I have an old Sorby bowl gouge, a Hamlet bowl gouge, and a couple of Henry Taylor Superflute bowl gouges. Not sure how the Thompson grooves compare in profile. Next time I make it to an AAW convention I think I'll try out every brand I can find that will let me! So the other question is, when my gouges are finally worn to a nub, what's the best way to get the old tool out of the handle? ....Kevin -- Kevin Miller Juneau, Alaska http://www.alaska.net/~atftb In a recent poll, seven out of ten hard drives preferred Linux. |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good asanother.
The Thompson V gouge is more of a U, and the U gouge is more of a C.
He is now making a few deep fluted gouges which are more like the old Glaser deep V gouges, which I didn't really like. I prefer Dougs V gouge, the U is just a bit flat for me, more suited to the outside of a bowl. I keep the same angle, but add a bit more sweep to it, and how have made the angle a bit more blunt, in the 55 or so degree range. A little better for getting down the transition area of a bowl, and across the bottom. I haven't used my gouge jig all year. I started doing it on a platform, like Mike Mahoney and Stewart Batty. It is faster and easier, and if you want more sweep, just roll it more up. There is a You Tube video of Mike sharpening his gouges. On any of the turning forums, when 'which gouge to buy' comes up, it is about 90% Thompson. You do have to make your own handles, or you can buy some of the metal ones. I prefer big round straight with no bumps wood. robo hippy On Feb 11, 1:38*pm, Kevin Miller wrote: robo hippy wrote: I guess that if I did come out with some tools, I would take the Doug Thompson approach, factory direct to keep quality high, and price cheap because that is what I would want if I was the customer. Being that my gouges have about an inch and a half of usable flute left, those look pretty nice. *Curious though - do you regrind them to a different profile or leave them as is? *Sure wish I had a pair to try - one w/the V groove and one with the U. I have an old Sorby bowl gouge, a Hamlet bowl gouge, and a couple of Henry Taylor Superflute bowl gouges. *Not sure how the Thompson grooves compare in profile. *Next time I make it to an AAW convention I think I'll try out every brand I can find that will let me! So the other question is, when my gouges are finally worn to a nub, what's the best way to get the old tool out of the handle? ...Kevin -- Kevin Miller Juneau, Alaskahttp://www.alaska.net/~atftb In a recent poll, seven out of ten hard drives preferred Linux. |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good as another.
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:38:01 -0900, Kevin Miller wrote:
So the other question is, when my gouges are finally worn to a nub, what's the best way to get the old tool out of the handle? ...Kevin I put mine in the vise and twist them back & forth.. usually break free fairly easily.. If now, I use one of those small oil filter type wrenches with the rubber strap.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good as another.
robo hippy wrote:
The Thompson V gouge is more of a U, and the U gouge is more of a C. He is now making a few deep fluted gouges which are more like the old Glaser deep V gouges, which I didn't really like. I prefer Dougs V gouge, the U is just a bit flat for me, more suited to the outside of a bowl. I keep the same angle, but add a bit more sweep to it, and now have made the angle a bit more blunt, in the 55 or so degree range. A little better for getting down the transition area of a bowl, and across the bottom. I haven't used my gouge jig all year. I started doing it on a platform, like Mike Mahoney and Stewart Batty. It is faster and easier, and if you want more sweep, just roll it more up. There is a You Tube video of Mike sharpening his gouges. On any of the turning forums, when 'which gouge to buy' comes up, it is about 90% Thompson. You do have to make your own handles, or you can buy some of the metal ones. I prefer big round straight with no bumps wood. robo hippy Thanks Reed. Looking at the photos on the site, it did seem as if it had a really wide valley on the U profile. Not sure what my nose angle is on my current gouges, but they're definitely blunter than 45. I checked out the video. I used to do it that way, but now prefer the Oneway jig. I don't really find it any slower, but to each their own. Think I'll order me a V gouge and keep on the lookout for a U gouge at the next symposium I'm at. Be nice to try, but the V sounds closer to what I'm using now, which I'm pretty happy with. Particularly the Sorby's profile. The Hamlet tool has a very pronounced V which gives it a pretty pointy nose. But there are times that that is just what I need. If only I could order one of everything! Handles are no problem I've got a number of tools w/handles I made... ....Kevin -- Kevin Miller Juneau, Alaska http://www.alaska.net/~atftb In a recent poll, seven out of ten hard drives preferred Linux. |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good as another.
mac davis wrote:
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:38:01 -0900, Kevin Miller wrote: So the other question is, when my gouges are finally worn to a nub, what's the best way to get the old tool out of the handle? ...Kevin I put mine in the vise and twist them back & forth.. usually break free fairly easily.. If not, I use one of those small oil filter type wrenches with the rubber strap.. Ever heat the shaft of the old tool? Wondering if any are epoxied in, and if that would soften the grip... -- Kevin Miller Juneau, Alaska http://www.alaska.net/~atftb In a recent poll, seven out of ten hard drives preferred Linux. |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good as another.
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:00:39 -0900, Kevin Miller wrote:
mac davis wrote: On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:38:01 -0900, Kevin Miller wrote: So the other question is, when my gouges are finally worn to a nub, what's the best way to get the old tool out of the handle? ...Kevin I put mine in the vise and twist them back & forth.. usually break free fairly easily.. If not, I use one of those small oil filter type wrenches with the rubber strap.. Ever heat the shaft of the old tool? Wondering if any are epoxied in, and if that would soften the grip... I've never had to, Kevin.. Most of them have come out pretty easily, without even removing the ferrule.. I'd just try it first.. heating could (probably wouldn't) char or weaken the handle or make the hole loose.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
#17
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good as another.
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:00:39 -0600, Kevin Miller wrote
(in message ications): mac davis wrote: On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:38:01 -0900, Kevin Miller wrote: So the other question is, when my gouges are finally worn to a nub, what's the best way to get the old tool out of the handle? ...Kevin I put mine in the vise and twist them back & forth.. usually break free fairly easily.. If not, I use one of those small oil filter type wrenches with the rubber strap.. Ever heat the shaft of the old tool? Wondering if any are epoxied in, and if that would soften the grip... I have had occasion to soften epoxy joints, and yes, heat works. Epoxy is a polymer - a type of plastic, albeit a very strong one. In the case of a tool bit epoxied into a handle, it might be possible to heat the tool bit with a propane torch - carefully. Testing periodically to see if the epoxy has softened up enough to loosen its grip on the steel. The steel will conduct heat sufficiently, I think, that the wood will not get charred. Wood will char around 450 degrees F. The epoxy should let loose at a temperature much lower than that. I know there are high-temp epoxies, but it is likely the case that an ordinary variety of epoxy would be used for securing a chisel or gouge bit in a handle. tom koehler -- I will find a way or make one. |
#18
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good as another.
On 02/12/2010 10:00 PM, mac davis wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:00:39 -0900, Kevin Miller wrote: Ever heat the shaft of the old tool? Wondering if any are epoxied in, and if that would soften the grip... I've never had to, Kevin.. Most of them have come out pretty easily, without even removing the ferrule.. I'd just try it first.. heating could (probably wouldn't) char or weaken the handle or make the hole loose.. Hopefully I wouldn't get it that hot. I'll give it a try cold first though. Worst case I destroy it and have to sacrifice a 2x2x18 hunk of something solid. S'later... -- Kevin Miller - http://www.alaska.net/~atftb Juneau, Alaska In a recent survey, 7 out of 10 hard drives preferred Linux Registered Linux User No: 307357, http://counter.li.org |
#19
Posted to rec.crafts.woodturning
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"Oland", "Schmoland" One "Inserted Bit" tool is as good as another.
On 02/13/2010 08:57 AM, tom koehler wrote:
I have had occasion to soften epoxy joints, and yes, heat works. Epoxy is a polymer - a type of plastic, albeit a very strong one. In the case of a tool bit epoxied into a handle, it might be possible to heat the tool bit with a propane torch - carefully. Testing periodically to see if the epoxy has softened up enough to loosen its grip on the steel. The steel will conduct heat sufficiently, I think, that the wood will not get charred. Wood will char around 450 degrees F. The epoxy should let loose at a temperature much lower than that. I know there are high-temp epoxies, but it is likely the case that an ordinary variety of epoxy would be used for securing a chisel or gouge bit in a handle. tom koehler Thanks Tom - with any luck it won't be a problem but nice to know it's an option. Of course, I'll have to remember to not pick up the old tool immediately! g ....Kevin -- Kevin Miller - http://www.alaska.net/~atftb Juneau, Alaska In a recent survey, 7 out of 10 hard drives preferred Linux Registered Linux User No: 307357, http://counter.li.org |
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