As we approach a new decade of turning wood our evaluation of and the
public's view of our products may have changed immeasurably. I'm not
sure.


Once we turned round objects for using or for enjoying and discussed art
vs craft and innovation vs plagairy 'ad ifinitum'. One subject that
arose again and again was how to fairly price our turnings for
ourselves, for our professionals and for the good of the hobby or
business, whether it is art or craft.


One argument centered around the question of hobby turning with no time
or overhead constraints that could demean woodturning or undercut our
fellow professionals with give away prices.


We also had different opinions about woodturning always being a craft or
trade. We were concerned about the possibility that crappy work grossly
over priced showed woodturning as a false and presumptive craft or a
ridicuous art form.


Any opinions for twenty ten?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 12:57:49 -0600, Arch wrote
(in message ):


As we approach a new decade of turning wood our evaluation of and the
public's view of our products may have changed immeasurably. I'm not
sure.


Once we turned round objects for using or for enjoying and discussed art
vs craft and innovation vs plagairy 'ad ifinitum'. One subject that
arose again and again was how to fairly price our turnings for
ourselves, for our professionals and for the good of the hobby or
business, whether it is art or craft.


One argument centered around the question of hobby turning with no time
or overhead constraints that could demean woodturning or undercut our
fellow professionals with give away prices.


We also had different opinions about woodturning always being a craft or
trade. We were concerned about the possibility that crappy work grossly
over priced showed woodturning as a false and presumptive craft or a
ridicuous art form.


Any opinions for twenty ten?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings




I'm a hobby-level turner. Been one for thirty-five years. I've seen some of
the crappy work you refer to, and I have seen some wonderful stuff. I don't
sell what I make - I give it to friends and relatives. I donated a modest
piece for a silent auction fund-raiser, no reserve price, and saw it go for
20 bucks. The outcome in that kind of venue depends a lot on the clientele, I
think.

If I presume to put my stuff where the public can see it and evaluate it, I
do the best work I know how to do, with no thought to a reasonable financial
return for my time and skill (such as it is). As the general public sees more
and more turning, I assume the public will also see more and more high
quality turning, and learn to recognize the difference between the two.

As in any other medium, there will be dialogue concerning the separation
between art and craft, and recognition of skill and quality over cheap mass
produced goods. I personally regard my own work as craft. If those who get my
stuff choose to call it art, they are entitled to their own opinions. I have
seen some efforts of other people (in various media) called art which should
have been more properly called recyleable. That opinion of course is mine.

Well done turning will be known by the company it keeps. Go to a gallery or a
commercial venue which sells good goods, and look around. Go to a place that
sells mass-produced goods and "genuine Indian pottery" made in China, and
look around. The turned articles in each of these different outlets will vary
in quality (and price) according to the nature of the rest of the goods in
thse places.

It is my belief that the hobbyist who can produce goods with the skill and
quality of the full-time professional turner will not have the motivation or
ability to produce the same volume of output as the professional. Further,
the marketplace where quality goods are sold will weed out substandard goods
as a matter of self-preservation of its (the marketplace's) own reputation.

In art, what too often seems to happen is that the artist while living is
under remunerated for his or her efforts, and the works produced are not
properly appreciated until after the death of the artist.

A thing may be produced and sold for its utility. A thing may be produced for
art, and might get sold. Each article has its market. Utility is advertised,
art is promoted.

Superiority is not a term with inherent absolute meaning. No comparison can
be made between art and craft with a claim of superiority of one over the
other.

I turn because it is pleasurable... and some people appreciate and like what
I do. Others here earn a living with their turning, possibly not concerned
whether their work be art or craft. Some produce art and express themselves
or convey some kind of meaning to others - and possibly make some money.
Others will decide in the end which is art and which is craft - and what is
neither art or craft.

All of what I have just said is of course my opinion, and it may or may not
resonate with others. I don't know what is art, but I know what I like.

tom koehler
--
I will find a way or make one.

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 18:44:06 -0600, tom koehler wrote
(in message . net):

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 12:57:49 -0600, Arch wrote
(in message ):


As we approach a new decade of turning wood our evaluation of and the
public's view of our products may have changed immeasurably. I'm not
sure.




Any opinions for twenty ten?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings




I'm a hobby-level turner. Been one for thirty-five years.

snip a lot

All of what I have just said is of course my opinion, and it may or may not
resonate with others. I don't know what is art, but I know what I like.

tom koehler


I was not trying to sound pompous, or bloviating, just trying to express my
own opinions on the issue. I hope I did not get anyone ticked off, I was not
trying to do that. If I did tighten anyone's jaws, I earnestly apologize.

Mr. Fortiter asked a great question, and I am surprised there have not been
more responses to it.

tom koehler


--
I will find a way or make one.

From a websites definition, art is more on concept and craft is focused on tangible products. Art is an expression that of what's inside the artist. It is more on paintings and drawings. Crafts on the other hand are those that we can feel and touch such as wood work.

As for me, woodturning is both an art and a craft for me as it comprises concept and tangibility. I believe that one cannot create a craft without a concept. If an artist merely creates a tangible product without being the original concept maker, that is the only time it will be considered a craft. - yve