Where Do Ideas Come From - Creativity or Synthesisity?

The question “Where do you get ideas for a piece?” is periodically asked
in this and other woodworking forums. The underlying questions is “What
is the source of creativity? - and by implication - “How do I tap that
source?”.

I believe the cliche - There’s nothing new under the sun. - with few
exceptions, is true. I believe that creativity is a very rare thing -
making something from nothing. I believe what is commonly called
creativity is actually synthesisity - combining existing ideas and/or
things, in a way that they’ve not previously been combined. And
synthesisity is not the sole domain of artists, inventors, scientists
and great thinkers. I think synthesisity is built into all of us. It
has to be, or humans would’ve gone extinct a long time ago.

The trick is learning to use what we’ve already got.

The following is a lathe turning example which hopefully illustrates how
synthesisity works and how it can be mistaken for that elusive thing
"creativity". Hopefully it will get someone who thinks they don't have
The Gift to consider the possibility that they do - but aren't using it.

I’ve been playing with an idea that was triggered by a club
demonstration, a rare, to everyone but me, mistake and a skew turning
exercise.

Here are the elements for the synthesis of a piece that’s new - to me.
(It’s probably been done a thousand times before - but I came up with
this on my own)

Element One:

I think it’s not a totally uncommon turner’s mistake - accidently
cutting or sanding through the bottom of a bowl or hollowed form. The
normal fix is to turn a plug to fit the unintentional hole, glue it in
place then re-turn the piece to blend the two pieces of wood together
visually. If you’re very careful, the resulting repair will go
unnoticed by all but the really observant.

Element Two:

If you have been into turning for more than a month or two you’ve
probably seen examples of mini or almost micro turnings - tiny chalices,
little doll house sized bowls and vases, itty bitty spinning tops.

Element Three:

One of the exercises for learning to use a skew is to turn beads and
balls. For the latter, you basically turn a ball on the end of a dowel
then turn off the ball.

Element Four:

Turned lidded boxes require turning a lip on one part that fits snugly
into the other part. The two parts are held together by friction.

Here’s the specifics.

After watching a club demonstration of small turning I tried my hand at
turning small - three small bowls in olive - all about 1” O.D., maybe
3/8” to 1/2” tall - basically flat bottomed hemispheres. At that scale,
a 3/16ths wall thickness looks really thick so I tried going thinner -
1/8th inch - and that was easy. So I went thinner on the next one - and
turned through the bottom of the little bowl. This little thing was too
small and too thin for a plug fix. For some reason I left it on my
workbench.

The olive was pretty and I turned some large beads and drilled a hole
through one - coincidently a that one was a little over 1” in diameter.

Now I had three very small hemispherical bowls, one with a big hole in
the bottom, a sphere with a hole through it and a piece left in the
chuck for the next bead - a dowel with a ball on the end.

Trying to fit the round bead inside one of the little bowls was
impulsive - “Will this fit into that? A ball joint!” It didn’t fit -
ball too big to fit all the way inside. Hmmm - a space between the
inside of the bowl and the outside of the bead. What if I turned the
ball that was in the chuck down and turn down the spigot to go through
the hole in the bowl with the hole in the bottom? If the bead on the
end of the dowel/spigot was inside the bowl and I glued the spigot into
the bead with the hole through it - I’d have a captured articulated
joint - a ball joint! A little more synthesisity and I’ve got a way to
make an articulated chain of beads - for a bracelet, necklace, belt, . .
..

Here are the elements
) bowl with hole in the bottom
O-- ball on the end of a dowel/spigot
(----) bead with a hole through it

Here’s the synthesisity
0)-- ball inside bowl with the hole in it,
spigot through the hole
0)-(- ) ball inside bowel, spigot through the
hole in the bowl, end of spigot in the
hole in the bead
AN ARTICULATED JOINT!
--(OO)-(---) spigot through the hole in the bowl,
ball inside the bowl, assembly glued
to its mirror image whose spigot is
glued into a bead with a hole through
it.
AN ARTICULATED “CHAIN”!

Since I’d already turned a bunch of turned lidded boxes with friction
fit lids, it was a no brainer to join the two “ball socket” the same
way. Lots easier than trying to glue two hemispheres together.

So there you have it - an example of serendipitous synthesisity - no
creativity here. And anyone can do it - and many no doubt have come up
with the idea used in this example.

Have you got an example of your synthesisity you’d be willing to share?

charlie b

I think for me, it is certainly "necessity is the mother of
invention". I am great at using tools and materials for things they
might not be considered for by their respective manufacturers.

I make a lot of different things I use in the shop or on the job
because I am too impatient to go buy them, and something inside me
likes the challenge of designing and making my own jigs a fixtures.

I don't really have too much of an artistic leaning to a lot of the
things I do, but I enjoy the practical aspects of solving a puzzle. I
would figure out how to make a make a jig to cut extreme angles on
trim before I would ever think to make your articulated chain.

I think my artistic inspirations (such as they are) are generated by
me seeing a shape or construction method or idea of something I like,
then going back to the shop and workging out the details to make my
own version.

Robert

wrote:

I think for me, it is certainly "necessity is the mother of
invention". I am great at using tools and materials for things they
might not be considered for by their respective manufacturers.

Well turning certainly lends itself to that skill and ability.
Lots of people think up things that they can't do with the
tools they have - and abandon the idea. You start with
an idea and, if necessary, make the tool(s) to then make
the idea a reality.

Most folks who get into turning and stay with it have
some sort of grinder, maybe a flex shaft or equivalent
with various burs , files etc.. - most if not everything
needed to make some of their own tools.

If you need a small tool - dental tools are great - either
"off the shelf" or easily modified. Dentists NEVER
throw tools away - even if a new and improved one
has replaced an old one. Ask and you may receive.


I make a lot of different things I use in the shop or on the job
because I am too impatient to go buy them, and something inside me
likes the challenge of designing and making my own jigs a fixtures.

Ah but a significant part of "creativity" involves problem
solving. If, rather than seeing something as a problem, you
choose to see it as an opportunity to use your brain and
existing skills to find a solution, you're more likely to
create something new - at least to you. So maybe Attitude
is an element of creativity?

I don't really have too much of an artistic leaning to a lot of the
things I do, but I enjoy the practical aspects of solving a puzzle. I
would figure out how to make a make a jig to cut extreme angles on
trim before I would ever think to make your articulated chain.

Hey, we're talking creativity here - not "Art". I've got an
idea worked out, now I have to come up with a use for it.

When HP developed the first pocket sized programable
calculator they called it A Solution Looking For Problems
To Solve. People found all kinds of problems to solve
with it.

I'm always amazed when "tradesmen" say "I can't do MATH"
and then take a flat piece of sheet metal and make a 3-D
object with tight seams that fits perfectly - or close enough,
or a carpenter who works out and then builds a staircase
- with a landing if need be - that fits the alloted space, meets
code and allows for subsequent rugs or flooring at the top
and bottom, or a trim carpenter who deals with walls not
being plumb, corners that aren't square and floors that
aren't level. Ever watched a Phd. try doing an exposed
aggregate walkway, or try cutting roof rafters?

I think my artistic inspirations (such as they are) are generated by
me seeing a shape or construction method or idea of something I like,
then going back to the shop and workging out the details to make my
own version.

But you had to have combined things you've done before in
a new way - at least new to you. And when it works your
brain gives you an endorphin rush - a reward for being
"creative". It's built into us. So the next time a "challenge"
comes along the subconscious thinks "Hey! An endorphin
opportunity!" and you look for a way to meet the "challenge".

Them that tries may or may not succeed.
Them that don't try don't fail. But they won't succeed
either.

charlie b

I think CREATIVITY is built into all of us. It
has to be, or humans would've gone extinct a long time ago.

I'll agree with the above statement, since it includes your coined terminology,
too. Coining a new term, and then asking for discussion is sorta like the dog
chasing his own tail. Everyone is creative, plain and simple. Why muddy the
waters with new, confusing, or limiting terms?

Creativity is closely associated with playfulness. If you are struggling with a
design, then I submit you are trying to hard. Lighten up!

Everyone has their way of solving problems. Most of us learned how to solve
problems by the time we were five years-old. Very few of us found new ways after
that. The difference between regular folk and very creative folk like artists
and designers is that they not only have discovered how they solve problems,
they've also learned new ways, too. It is a conscious effort for them.

The first step is to learn how you solve problems.

Just my thoughts, Dan

charlieb wrote:
Dan Bollinger wrote:

I think CREATIVITY is built into all of us. It
has to be, or humans would've gone extinct a long time ago.

I'll agree with the above statement, since it includes your coined terminology,
too. Coining a new term, and then asking for discussion is sorta like the dog
chasing his own tail. Everyone is creative, plain and simple. Why muddy the
waters with new, confusing, or limiting terms?


I was initially using synthesis to differentiate combining existing
things in a new way rather than creativity, making something from
nothing that existed before. Was trying to get the two terms
in the same form, not to coin a new term. Also was trying to
get around the potential mental block some have when creativity
is mentioned the "I'm not creative - but I'm pretty good at finding
a way to do things." folks I hope join this thread.


Creativity is closely associated with playfulness. If you are struggling with a
design, then I submit you are trying to hard. Lighten up!


Two critical parts of creativity - play vs work - an attitude that
it's play and not drudgery, something to overcome and Lighten
Up! It's only wood and some time that's lost if you make a mistake.
Not the end of the world. Try again or go do something else that
might be an opportunity to be creative.


Everyone has their way of solving problems. Most of us learned how to solve
problems by the time we were five years-old. Very few of us found new ways after
that.


Having been trained as an engineer I have to take issue with that
statement. I didn't know trig or geometry at age five. Both come
in real handy handy in woodworking - whether you call it trig and
geometry or not.


The difference between regular folk and very creative folk like artists
and designers is that they not only have discovered how they solve problems,
they've also learned new ways, too. It is a conscious effort for them.


OK so conscious awareness is important along with intentionally
making
an effort to use that awareness is important. That's something that
can be learned. Any tips on ways to learn to do that?


The first step is to learn how you solve problems.


I think that's the second step. The first step is to not quit
when problems are encountered. Creativity and Risk Avoidance
don't seem to go together.


Just my thoughts, Dan


Master of The Understatement.

More please.

charlie b
The first step is to realize that there is a problem.

Dan Bollinger wrote:

I think CREATIVITY is built into all of us. It
has to be, or humans would've gone extinct a long time ago.

I'll agree with the above statement, since it includes your coined terminology,
too. Coining a new term, and then asking for discussion is sorta like the dog
chasing his own tail. Everyone is creative, plain and simple. Why muddy the
waters with new, confusing, or limiting terms?

I was initially using synthesis to differentiate combining existing
things in a new way rather than creativity, making something from
nothing that existed before. Was trying to get the two terms
in the same form, not to coin a new term. Also was trying to
get around the potential mental block some have when creativity
is mentioned the "I'm not creative - but I'm pretty good at finding
a way to do things." folks I hope join this thread.

Creativity is closely associated with playfulness. If you are struggling with a
design, then I submit you are trying to hard. Lighten up!

Two critical parts of creativity - play vs work - an attitude that
it's play and not drudgery, something to overcome and Lighten
Up! It's only wood and some time that's lost if you make a mistake.
Not the end of the world. Try again or go do something else that
might be an opportunity to be creative.

Everyone has their way of solving problems. Most of us learned how to solve
problems by the time we were five years-old. Very few of us found new ways after
that.

Having been trained as an engineer I have to take issue with that
statement. I didn't know trig or geometry at age five. Both come
in real handy handy in woodworking - whether you call it trig and
geometry or not.

The difference between regular folk and very creative folk like artists
and designers is that they not only have discovered how they solve problems,
they've also learned new ways, too. It is a conscious effort for them.

OK so conscious awareness is important along with intentionally
making
an effort to use that awareness is important. That's something that
can be learned. Any tips on ways to learn to do that?

The first step is to learn how you solve problems.

I think that's the second step. The first step is to not quit
when problems are encountered. Creativity and Risk Avoidance
don't seem to go together.

Just my thoughts, Dan

Master of The Understatement.

More please.

charlie b

Ralph Fedorak wrote:

The first step is to realize that there is a problem.

I think that when you've blown through the bottom
or walls of a piece the recognition of the existence
of a problem is self evident.

Are you talking about Recovery rather than Creativity?
There's a difference between getting back to where
you were before the problem and your attitude towards
getting beyond the problem - and maybe find a creative
use for what could be seen as a failure.

Could you elaborate on the statement?

charlie b

Everyone has their way of solving problems. Most of us learned how to solve
problems by the time we were five years-old. Very few of us found new ways
after
that.

Having been trained as an engineer I have to take issue with that
statement. I didn't know trig or geometry at age five. Both come
in real handy handy in woodworking - whether you call it trig and
geometry or not.

Uh, I thought we were talking about creativity, not book learning. A band saw
is handy, too. Doesn't mean using one (or a trig formula, for that matter) makes
you artistic. I stand by my original statement. Most people do not learn new
ways of solving problems after about the age of 5.

The difference between regular folk and very creative folk like artists
and designers is that they not only have discovered how they solve problems,
they've also learned new ways, too. It is a conscious effort for them.

OK so conscious awareness is important along with intentionally
making
an effort to use that awareness is important. That's something that
can be learned. Any tips on ways to learn to do that?

Yup. Go to art and design school, take an evening class. Reading design texts
like Pye or ones on design methodology may help, too. A lower cost alternative
is to solve problems, any problems, but especialy 3D problems like Rubics Cube,
or other visual brain teasers. Anything that gets those creative synapses firing
is good. Also, take a different route to work each day. Or write with you
non-dominant hand. These work, too.

The first step is to learn how you solve problems.

I think that's the second step. The first step is to not quit
when problems are encountered. Creativity and Risk Avoidance
don't seem to go together.

Not the way I look at it: Learn how to solve problems, then begin to solve a
problem, then keep at it even when all seems lost. That makes it the 3rd step,
right?

Designers will tell you that way too often the tendency is to jump in and solve
a problem, and many people take the first solution they come up with. I've seen
many engineers (sorry) step into that pitfall, as in, "We'll just add a bracket
to fix that." Designers on the other hand will sketch ten, even a hundred
sketches, throw them all away, and then begin with the design. Artists will
start over repeatedly on a project.

Tossing a handful of designs away is also a good way to remove your ego form the
equation, too.

A more direct way is one I've mentioned here before. Get some low density foam
and turn it with scrapers and files. Set a timer and see how many shapes you can
knock out in twenty minutes. Or turn a foam shape, turn it again making one
slight change, do it again and again, but never returning to a former shape.
Don't stop until you have a hundred.

Finally, a good designer, and this includes home-shop bowl
designers/crafters/turners is one who spends a great deal of time crafting the
design statement before even beginning. "Design a fork" is a lot different than
"Design a personal sustenance device." The first is limiting, the latter
expansive. Expansive is good, it leads to play and creative results.

Hope this helps. Dan

Not sure about the meaning of "Synthesisity", but in the dictionary
"Creativity" lies between "Crazy" and "Crotchety" and not far from
"Crud". Don't know what that means either, but my ideas probably fit in
there somewhere.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

On 22 Mar, 04:05, (Arch) wrote:
Not sure about the meaning of "Synthesisity", but in the dictionary
"Creativity" lies between "Crazy" and "Crotchety" and not far from
"Crud". Don't know what that means either, but my ideas probably fit in
there somewhere.

Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter

http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings


Hello, I'm Maestrodascia and I make wooden puppets. Watched my web-
site please! Thanks!

www.maestrodascia.com

"Arch" wrote: (clip) in the dictionary "Creativity" lies between "Crazy"
and "Crotchety" and not far from "Crud". Don't know what that means either,
but my ideas probably fit in there somewhere.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Of course, the dictionary lists words alphabetically, without regard to
their meaning. I think it is *creative* of you to *synthesize* a list of
words, taken in alphabetical order, whose meanings are related to an
arbitrary topic.

"Arch" wrote: Not sure about the meaning of "Synthesisity" (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Synthesisity" is structurally similar to "synergisity," and in this context
has a related meaning.

On Mar 21, 6:23 am, charlieb wrote:

Well turning certainly lends itself to that skill and ability.
Lots of people think up things that they can't do with the
tools they have - and abandon the idea. You start with
an idea and, if necessary, make the tool(s) to then make
the idea a reality.

That goes with all aspects of craft/trade work. When I started in
capentry I was lucky enough to work with someone that was not only a
talented craftsman, but someone that had a great imagination. When we
were working and someone could get the job done because they felt like
they needed a certain tool, he would say "well, you better figure it
out if you want to be a carpenter. You won't be working in shop full
of tools very often".

Ah but a significant part of "creativity" involves problem
solving. If, rather than seeing something as a problem, you
choose to see it as an opportunity to use your brain and
existing skills to find a solution, you're more likely to
create something new - at least to you. So maybe Attitude is an element of creativity?

Absoltuely. It has a lot to do with the profession I am in, repair
and remodeling. And even more over, the fact that it is my company,
and all eyes look to me when looking for a solution to an unexpected
problem. If there is no satisfactory solution to a prolem, I might
not get paid, or worse, might get sued.

For me, it is this: an expeditious solution has to be found. There
is nothing else. And hopefully, within budget. So my brain doesn't
see the end result as being creative, but more of having the ability
to think more out of the box than some. In the end, the resolution of
an exepected challenge it viewed by me as a solution, nothing else.
Sometimes at the end of the day I go home thinking I dodged a bullet,
not feeling like I did something creative.


But you had to have combined things you've done before in
a new way - at least new to you. And when it works your
brain gives you an endorphin rush - a reward for being
"creative". It's built into us.

I agree with that at least part of the time. If it is for my
business, a solution is more of a sigh of relief than a hormone bang.

But for me personally, I do like working things out for myself. And I
get a charge out of doing something new to me and coming out with
satisfactory results. To me it is rewarding and satisfying on a lot
of different levels.

Robert

wrote:
On Mar 21, 6:23 am, charlieb wrote:

Well turning certainly lends itself to that skill and ability.
Lots of people think up things that they can't do with the
tools they have - and abandon the idea. You start with
an idea and, if necessary, make the tool(s) to then make
the idea a reality.

That goes with all aspects of craft/trade work. When I started in
capentry I was lucky enough to work with someone that was not only a
talented craftsman, but someone that had a great imagination. When we
were working and someone could get the job done because they felt like
they needed a certain tool, he would say "well, you better figure it
out if you want to be a carpenter. You won't be working in shop full
of tools very often".

Absolutely ... nothing is so convincing as knowing that someone else
solved the problem before it came to us and did it with fewer tools /
less material. When I was working in a die shop that was an every day
occurrence. I was surrounded by brilliant men whose natural inclination
was to make things. They didn't even care what it was they were making
.... it was the challenge of making something that had never been made
before, on time, within budget and to spec. Then, do it again tomorrow.
There is a mental rush in the skilled trades that I simply don't find
elsewhere. I suspect that the guy who makes a sale, predicts the stock
market and so on has his own sense of accomplishment ... but it's not
the same. Not the same as mine.

Bill
--
I am disillusioned enough to know that no man's opinion on any subject
is worth (much) unless backed up with enough genuine information to make
him really know what he's talking about.

H. P. Lovecraft

http://nmwoodworks.com


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"Dan Bollinger" wrote: (clip) many people take the first solution they come
up with. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The brain works in mysterious ways. The first solution you come up with
maybe a very good one. This is because your brain processes information at
a subconscious level, turning things over and making comparisons you are not
even aware of. Suddenly you have an *idea* which turns out to be good. It
didn't come from nowhere. In some cases I have deliverately tried to
improve on my first solution, only to make things worse.

On Mar 22, 11:56 pm, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:

The brain works in mysterious ways. The first solution you come up with maybe a very good one. This is because your brain processes information at
a subconscious level, turning things over and making comparisons you are not even aware of. Suddenly you have an *idea* which turns out to be good. It didn't come from nowhere.

I know that tune. There are times I cannot resolve something in the
afternoon no matter how hard I think about it. A cabinet that doesn't
fit a space, not enough tile, electricians didn't show, etc. I grind
away, and nothing happens. I can smell the rubber burning from the
wheels turning, but .... nothing.

Next day, walk out on the job, and it's "hey, why don't we try this"
and it was better than the orignal plan,or sometimes at least as good.

Robert

Next day, walk out on the job, and it's "hey, why don't we try this"
and it was better than the orignal plan,or sometimes at least as good.

To me, what you are describing is more about being playful, letting your
subconscious mind mull it over, and 'lightening it up', than it is about what
order the idea came in, first, second, etc.

Dan

The brain works in mysterious ways. The first solution you come up with maybe
a very good one. This is because your brain processes information at a
subconscious level, turning things over and making comparisons you are not
even aware of. Suddenly you have an *idea* which turns out to be good. It
didn't come from nowhere. In some cases I have deliverately tried to improve
on my first solution, only to make things worse.

Grist for this (creativity) mill:

The human brain processes information associatively. "This is like that."

Great designers work in visual metaphors, we know this because they create in a
concious manner and they know how they solve problems. For instance, "I'm going
to turn a bowl that reminds me of a farmer and his John Deere tractor."

Just for fun, try that on for size, imagine such a bowl and you'll see the
possibilities spring to mind. Note how it gets your brain buzzing. Much
differently than, say, leafing through a book of bowl patterns.

If the problem is a simple one like, "How to I get these apples in that bushel
basket" then the first idea may be a good one. It may not be the best, but it
probably will suffice. But we are not talking about day-to-day problems in this
thread, but artisitic creativity in our work. If you want excellence, not
mediocrity, in your craft, then tossing out the 'obvious solutions' will not
only put your mind into 'creative mode', but also separate your work from others
who chose their 'first idea.' You can chose the well-traveled road, or blaze
your own path. Its up to you.

Me? I toss out the obvious solutions if I want to end up with a creative
result. What I want is a non-obvious solution that will Wow! people. I want the
solution that people will say, "I wish I'd thought of that!" or "That's so
elegant, why hasn't anyone done that before?'

Dan

On Mar 23, 9:00 am, "Dan Bollinger"
wrote:

To me, what you are describing is more about being playful, letting your
subconscious mind mull it over, and 'lightening it up', than it is about what
order the idea came in, first, second, etc.

Dan

Not to quibble Dan, but I think in reality it means my brain does
better work when I'm not using it. ;^)

Robert

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:27:12 -0800, charlieb
wrote:

Snip

Since Id already turned a bunch of turned lidded boxes with friction
fit lids, it was a no brainer to join the two €œball socket€� the same
way. Lots easier than trying to glue two hemispheres together.

So there you have it - an example of serendipitous synthesisity - no
creativity here. And anyone can do it - and many no doubt have come up
with the idea used in this example.

Charlie,

Your perceptions of what an "artist" is supposed to be is messing you
up here. Putting on a beret and laquering dog poop is not creativity
simply because it has not been done before. Making something to fill
a need or express an idea is creative. There is no need to coin a new
phrase to describe the creative process when creativity will do just
fine- and is better applied to the act of making a bowl to eat your
popcorn out of than it is to stripping naked and throwing paint at the
wall.

At root, the word contains creation. Don't give it away to those who
create nothing of value simply because they have a snotty attitude.
There are all sorts of degrees and applications of creativity in the
world, and most have nothing whatever to do with some self-proclaimed
avant guarde.

So there you go. You're a creative artist. If you like, I can make
you up a certificate or something to that effect, but would hardly
think that is necessary.

"Prometheus" wrote: (clip) Putting on a beret and laquering dog poop is
not creativity
simply because it has not been done before. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The beret has nothing to do with it, of course. Lacquering dog poop might
qualify as creative, but how much credit should go to the dog? It might be
hard to sell at first, but if you can get it into a prestigious museum or
gallery, you might be able to start a "movement."

Need I say TIC?

"Leo Lichtman" wrote:


"Prometheus" wrote: (clip) Putting on a beret and laquering dog poop
is not creativity
simply because it has not been done before. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The beret has nothing to do with it, of course. Lacquering dog poop
might qualify as creative, but how much credit should go to the dog?
It might be hard to sell at first, but if you can get it into a
prestigious museum or gallery, you might be able to start a
"movement."

Need I say TIC?




"The Act of Creation" by Arthur Koestler is The best source for
understanding creativity.

"A Whack on the Side of the Head" and similar titles, are very good for
stimulating creativity.

Act is the academic view, Whack the pragmatic problem solving view.

Prometheus wrote:

Charlie,

Your perceptions of what an "artist" is supposed to be is messing you
up here. Putting on a beret and laquering dog poop is not creativity
simply because it has not been done before. Making something to fill
a need or express an idea is creative. There is no need to coin a new
phrase to describe the creative process when creativity will do just
fine- and is better applied to the act of making a bowl to eat your
popcorn out of than it is to stripping naked and throwing paint at the
wall.

At root, the word contains creation. Don't give it away to those who
create nothing of value simply because they have a snotty attitude.
There are all sorts of degrees and applications of creativity in the
world, and most have nothing whatever to do with some self-proclaimed
avant guarde.

So there you go. You're a creative artist. If you like, I can make
you up a certificate or something to that effect, but would hardly
think that is necessary.

No decoder ring? No secret handshake? Not even a beret with my
name embroidered inside - in gold thread? No learning the name of
a Cabal member? (oops - wrong news group)

Seriously - we see pieces done by others, and some of us show
pieces we've done. Where'd the idea came from and how did it get
from the beginnings of an idea to the piece? That part is missing.

I'm using an example of an idea I'm playing with to illustrate one
of the many ways to end up, hopefully, with an interesting piece,
or a series of pieces. The hope is that others will provide
examples
of another process they've found. And with several approaches
to getting ideas and then a piece, maybe someone will give it a try
and finally getting around to discovering that creativity is built
into them - and be creative.

Here's the next idea for using a ball and socket swivel joint.

http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/T...culation4.html

Getting pretty good at doing the ball and socket parts. Found
I had a 1/4" shank router bit for routing letters - cuts a half
round - just the right size for a small round socket. Chuck it
in a drill chuck in the tail stock and making the round concave
part of the ball and socket a snap. Turning the ball to fit the
socket is pretty. Now it'll be easy to play with this swivel joint.
May end up going nowhere - but so far the trip's been interesting.

With an easy way to make the parts, maybe someone else will
come up with some interesting uses - and tell us about it.

charlie b

charlie b
easy

wrote:

Not to quibble Dan, but I think in reality it means my brain does
better work when I'm not using it. ;^)

Insight couched in humor. A zen exercise poses a question which
can't be answered - with logic/ego. The idea is that when the
ego grinds on the question long enough it gives up and what lies
beyond ego is revealed - ultimately that everything is everything.
In western thought it's getting past the conscious mind to the
subconscious mind. If you've tried to see a faint star in the
dark night sky, you know that if you look directly at it you won't
see it. But if you look a little to the side of it you will see it.
Has to do with how the eye works - but often the brain seems
to work in a similar manner.

charlie b

"charlieb" wrote in message
...
Here's the next idea for using a ball and socket swivel joint.

http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/T...culation4.html

Getting pretty good at doing the ball and socket parts. Found
I had a 1/4" shank router bit for routing letters - cuts a half
round - just the right size for a small round socket. Chuck it
in a drill chuck in the tail stock and making the round concave
part of the ball and socket a snap. Turning the ball to fit the
socket is pretty. Now it'll be easy to play with this swivel joint.
May end up going nowhere - but so far the trip's been interesting.

With an easy way to make the parts, maybe someone else will
come up with some interesting uses - and tell us about it.

Shakers used one on the back legs of their chairs for the leaners.

"A Whack on the Side of the Head" and similar titles, are very good for
stimulating creativity.

Whack is a good primer. I'd forgotten about it. There is also a Whack card deck
that can be used to generate new ideas or solutions. Dan

Not to quibble Dan, but I think in reality it means my brain does
better work when I'm not using it. ;^)

LOL! Whenever I read a response like yours using 'but' I can't help to add the
words implied, but left out:

Not to quibble Dan, BUT I WILL...

That's OK. You have my permission to quibble, no need to disquise it or be
afraid.

I agree. There is value in 'mulling it over', or 'sleeping on it.' It is an old
designer's trick; give your brain a problem to work on 'in the background' and
then do something else for awhile, knowing that it continues to work on it.

Dan

George wrote:

With an easy way to make the parts, maybe someone else will
come up with some interesting uses - and tell us about it.

Shakers used one on the back legs of their chairs for the leaners.

See, nothing new under the sun.

Slept on the swivel joint idea and came up with another application
- Interactive, Ball Activated, Articulated Elements Bowl

http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/T...culation5.html

Plenty of room for variations with this one - change the size of the
ball, change the contour of the inside of the bowl, limit the
movement
of the ball socket to either just vertical or just horizontal - lots
of
possiblities for making a dynamic, interactive piece. Since the
swivel
joint is relatively easy to make, playing with ideas to use it is
easy.

Going "modular" has many advantages and lends itself to experiment-
ation - a critical component of "creativity".

Fun this turning thing yes?

charlie b

Prometheus wrote:


So there you go. You're a creative artist. If you like, I can make
you up a certificate or something to that effect, but would hardly
think that is necessary.


Can I have one, too?
(I always wanted to be creative but just never had the hang of it. Maybe
having a certificate on my wall would help.)

;-)

Bill

--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


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Do I not hear echos of the Wizrd and the Scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz?
Something about scholars and diplomas? :-)

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"Bill in Detroit" wrote in message
...
Prometheus wrote:


So there you go. You're a creative artist. If you like, I can make
you up a certificate or something to that effect, but would hardly
think that is necessary.


Can I have one, too?
(I always wanted to be creative but just never had the hang of it. Maybe
having a certificate on my wall would help.)

;-)

Bill

--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


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"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:mpNNh.13318$6z3.9475@edtnps82...
Do I not hear echos of the Wizrd and the Scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz?
Something about scholars and diplomas? :-)


Or as with some "drying methods," testimonials?

On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 23:34:54 -0800, charlieb
wrote:

Prometheus wrote:

Charlie,

Your perceptions of what an "artist" is supposed to be is messing you
up here. Putting on a beret and laquering dog poop is not creativity
simply because it has not been done before. Making something to fill
a need or express an idea is creative. There is no need to coin a new
phrase to describe the creative process when creativity will do just
fine- and is better applied to the act of making a bowl to eat your
popcorn out of than it is to stripping naked and throwing paint at the
wall.

At root, the word contains creation. Don't give it away to those who
create nothing of value simply because they have a snotty attitude.
There are all sorts of degrees and applications of creativity in the
world, and most have nothing whatever to do with some self-proclaimed
avant guarde.

So there you go. You're a creative artist. If you like, I can make
you up a certificate or something to that effect, but would hardly
think that is necessary.

No decoder ring? No secret handshake? Not even a beret with my
name embroidered inside - in gold thread? No learning the name of
a Cabal member? (oops - wrong news group)

*pssst* -- the secret password is "oh CRAP!" If you like, I
learned all sorts of secret handshakes and chicken dances in a
previous life among various silly societies, and I'm sure I could come
up with something pretty convincing.

Seriously - we see pieces done by others, and some of us show
pieces we've done. Where'd the idea came from and how did it get
from the beginnings of an idea to the piece? That part is missing.

There's nothing missing, IMO. Having had plenty of mulling time at
various boring jobs over the years, I made a point of thinking about
thinking itself.

What I came up with is this, and of course others may modify or
disagree- I can only see what is in my own head, after all.

Every concept is derived from one of your senses, after being passed
through (at least) five basic steps. The first is observation-
whether that is visual, aural or olfactory really makes no difference,
but nothing exists in a void of sensory input.

After observation, the next step of congnition is identification. To
merely observe something means nothing- the mind has to ascribe
attributes to the object of an observation to give it "handles" with
which to deal with the information.

Once a thing is identified as accurately as possible, it needs to be
analysed and generalized to associate it with things with share
similar charateristics, and distance it from thing which are
dissimilar.

That abstraction rolls seamlessly into catagorization. We all have an
internal mental framework which allows us to put things in their
proper place. That framework varies from person to person, but
everyone has something along those lines. So, when we encounter, for
instance, a tree we have not seen before, we can identify that it is
rooted in the ground, has a trunk which supports a canopy of leaves
and is covered in bark, and is more than likely a tree. That's the
broad catagory- from that, we may deduce that it is more similar to a
pine than an oak, which might lead us to the conclusion that it is
coniferous, and so on- leading from corse gradiations to finer ones
until we have placed the new plant in it's proper niche.

After it is catagorized, most things are associated. The process of
association might tell you that when you smell salt in the air and see
seagulls flying overhead, you are likely near the ocean. Or when you
are surrounded by sand in a hot, dry environment, you are probably in
a desert. While these things can not necessarily be catagorized
together, they are casually linked and integrated with your total
worldview.

That casual linkage seems to be the area from which most creative
endeavors arise. When you wish to create something, your mind recalls
the links to those things which your initial concept is connected.
So, if you wanted to create a bowl that represented a watery theme,
your mind may come up with anything from a wave shape to a
life-preserver. You pick those things which fit the mood you are
trying to convey- for instance, a large fish hook or spear may not
represent a particularly calm image (though it may, if you're an
angler,) so you might choose not to integrate those sharp hooks or
points into your design. A water lily is not necessarily a good way
to convey a thunderous sea.

In the case of a utilitarian item, those linkages will be of a
different character, but operate on the same principle. If you are
engineering a bridge, your mind will recall the relevant materials and
their properties, as well as various known structural forms that are
appropriate to the task. Eliminating variables to fit the intended
use will lead to the appropriate form and construction of that bridge.

In both cases, the act of creativity was a process- whether or not it
is ever articulated by any given person. Inspiration does not come
from a muse- and it does not enter your nostrils from some unseen
ether. It is a natural process, whether concious or unconcious, that
consists of recalling casual linkages and reducing them to fundimental
principles to relay information or perform a task. Everyone is
creative to a degree, but that creativity is informed by the rational
function of that person's mind, and the breadth and depth of those
things which they have observed, identified, and integrated- thus,
some people appear to be more creative, while others will appear to be
less so.

In the cases of insanity or brain damage, a person's casual links may
be altered or missing- sometimes that leads to striking imagery, but
it rarely actually means anything. Unfortunately, it seems like that
is too often the case with the avant guarde of modern art!

I'm using an example of an idea I'm playing with to illustrate one
of the many ways to end up, hopefully, with an interesting piece,
or a series of pieces. The hope is that others will provide
examples
of another process they've found. And with several approaches
to getting ideas and then a piece, maybe someone will give it a try
and finally getting around to discovering that creativity is built
into them - and be creative.

That's a noble enough goal- and I think I may have missed your inital
point in that. I do enjoy your posts, but occasionally it seems like
you are beating yourself up a little (though it's just as likely my
toungue-in-cheek meter is out of service some days)- and there is
certainly no call for that!

With an easy way to make the parts, maybe someone else will
come up with some interesting uses - and tell us about it.

It definately is an interesting concept, and I thank you for sharing.
It will undoubtedly get used somewhere down the line in my shop.

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 10:39:14 GMT, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:

Do I not hear echos of the Wizrd and the Scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz?
Something about scholars and diplomas? :-)

*wink*

"Prometheus" wrote: (clip) they are casually linked and integrated with
your total
worldview.
That casual linkage seems to be the area from which most creative
endeavors arise. (clip)In the cases of insanity or brain damage, a
person's casual links may be altered or missing- (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Very interesting post--you obviously HAVE spent a lot of time thinking about
thinking. I normally would not nit-pick about a spelling error, but in this
case, it seems to have a serious effect on your meaning. Where you write
"casual," do you mean "causal?"

(Actually, I'm just trying to prove that I read it." ;-)

I am a little hesitant to accept analyses like yours, and Dr. Phil's, which
divide complex continuous processes into numbered steps. This kind of
thinking can be helpful sometimes, but after you have the categories firmly
in mind, consider removing removing the boundaries between them.

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 17:00:02 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


"Prometheus" wrote: (clip) they are casually linked and integrated with
your total
worldview.
That casual linkage seems to be the area from which most creative
endeavors arise. (clip)In the cases of insanity or brain damage, a
person's casual links may be altered or missing- (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Very interesting post--you obviously HAVE spent a lot of time thinking about
thinking. I normally would not nit-pick about a spelling error, but in this
case, it seems to have a serious effect on your meaning. Where you write
"casual," do you mean "causal?"

At first I did, but then it occured to me that those links are not
always a product of cause and effect, but often informally linked by
emotion as much as any real connection. I actually typed causual
first, and then reconsidered- it was easier to drop the "u" than to
figure out a more appropriate word (I was getting tired, and ready for
bed.)

(Actually, I'm just trying to prove that I read it." ;-)

I am a little hesitant to accept analyses like yours, and Dr. Phil's, which
divide complex continuous processes into numbered steps. This kind of
thinking can be helpful sometimes, but after you have the categories firmly
in mind, consider removing removing the boundaries between them.

That's good thinking on your part. The point was less that what I had
to say was graven in stone then that everyone's mind has a system of
processes that it uses to deal with reality, and anything you do will
be a natural outgrowth of those. As with anything that is enormously
complex, a person can only make a broad outline if you want to make a
case without going into endless qualifications! There are folks who
have gone that route as well, and build elaborate castles of logic,
but those are tough to follow (Aristotle comes to mind- by the time he
adresses his thesis, you've gone though 30 pages of definitions for
each word, and an exploration of every concievable "what if".)

Bill in Detroit wrote:

Can I have one, too?
(I always wanted to be creative but just never had the hang of it. Maybe
having a certificate on my wall would help.)

;-)

Bill


I've been doing a lot of late-night thinking recently about things
'everybody knows' that are actually anything -except- certain.

I'm coming up with insights of a level I am not accustomed to in recent
years. I'm not liking them especially ... there is clearly a dark wind
blowing ... but am also mulling over how I can turn them to my
advantage. Some of what I am seeing more clearly now I've seen dimly
before. But now I'm looking straight on at it. What I am seeing is both
ugly and dangerous.

I think I've come up with my first answer with wide ranging usefulness.
If it catches on, my days of honest labor are over. You'll find it in my
shopping cart under the category of "subversion". It sets privacy
invasion back one full notch at a cost of exactly $2.00. I think it'll
cost me about a buck to do. I get to keep the other for my trouble. In a
limited sense, it can be done locally, but will work a lot better if it
gains an anonymizing layer -- me.

I got the spy v spy graphic from a blog about real-life spying
(http://www.blackfive.net/main/2006/0..._spy_civi.html) but I
rather suspect that they busted on the Mad Magazine copyright. If anyone
knows where I might find some similar symbolism (copyright free) in a
graphic, I'd appreciate a 'heads up'.

In the meantime I'll try to come up with something else on my own. I
-really- don't want to bust on someone elses' IP for more than a day or
three. Beyond that time frame, I'll pick some non-related image.

Bill

--
http://nmwoodworks.com/cube


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