start all over again in this hobby / business / trade, what mistakes did
you make the first time around that you'd skip on the second go around?

I'm kind of looking for arrows pointing to where the land mines are.

I think I'd skip HF for my mainstay tools EXCEPT where I had carefully
specced the exact tool I needed to buy and HF had a tool that EXACTLY met
that spec or exceeded it. I just bought a Milwaukee 5625-29 router and
it's a real eye-opener. Can't get anything like this at HF.

I also think I'd downplay my willingness to do custom work and put more
effort into building inventory to sell from.

And I'd also give more thought to cost tracking so I'd be collecting
needed data from day one.

I find that I have a LOT of pen blanks cut from unremarkable wood. Skip
that ... anything that isn't eye candy is firewood.

I've got others ... but I'd like to hear from you.

Bill

Bill wrote:
start all over again in this hobby / business / trade, what mistakes did
you make the first time around that you'd skip on the second go around?


It's easy to say that I would have not purchased a small Craftsman
table saw 7 years ago, and instead saved up for a really nice table
saw. Then again, 7 years ago I had no idea that I'd be so into
woodworking years down the road - so maybe that $200 saw shouldn't be
considered a mistake.

Here's one though: We decided that buying rough cut lumber beat the
pants off of dealing with the garbage available at HD/Lowes, and
purchased a 6" Jet jointer and a planer. A year and a half later, I'm
wishing that we'd gone with an 8" jointer, with longer tables. (Why
does it seem like most of the boards we end up with are 6.5 or 7 inches
wide?!?!)

Mike

On 25 Oct 2006 06:14:36 -0700, "Mike" wrote:


Bill wrote:
start all over again in this hobby / business / trade, what mistakes did
you make the first time around that you'd skip on the second go around?


It's easy to say that I would have not purchased a small Craftsman
table saw 7 years ago, and instead saved up for a really nice table
saw. Then again, 7 years ago I had no idea that I'd be so into
woodworking years down the road - so maybe that $200 saw shouldn't be
considered a mistake.

Here's one though: We decided that buying rough cut lumber beat the
pants off of dealing with the garbage available at HD/Lowes, and
purchased a 6" Jet jointer and a planer. A year and a half later, I'm
wishing that we'd gone with an 8" jointer, with longer tables. (Why
does it seem like most of the boards we end up with are 6.5 or 7 inches
wide?!?!)

Mike

And when you have that 8" jointer, it's remarkable how many nice
boards are wider than that. Now, if only I'd have bought that 15"
Northfield....

It never ends.

Back the what the OP said, I'm not sure (as a hobbyist) I would have
done anything different. Maybe I could have avoided a few turkeys
masquerading as tools, but for the most part it's been a learning
experience. An education costs money. No way around that.

BTW, in the beginning, all my tools were Craftsman. Not all were bad.
The floor standing ones were good, the hand held ones (power) were/are
uniformly bad. In every case they provided a learning experience.
Not only in how to use it but also what to look for in a better
example of it's kind.

start all over again in this hobby / business / trade, what mistakes did
you make the first time around that you'd skip on the second go around?

Instruction. If I had it to do over again, I'd get lots of expert
instruction from day one. It's too hard to try to discover everything
about woodturning on your own. Getting started right can save years and
years of mistakes and frustration. Musicians take lessons, athletes have
coaches, why would we as woodturners want to give up the advantage of
instruction and learn the hard way? I know it's fun to tinker and figure
things out for ourselves, but it's called "learning the hard way" for a
reason. Woodturning should be fun. How many beginners experience catches
or are afraid of their skew? How fun is that? And learn from true
experts - they won't start you down the wrong path like some
less-than-experts who only think they know what they are doing. Learn to
be versatile. Learn many ways to make a cut, mount a blank, apply a
finish, or anything else we do. Then you can choose the most ideal method
for each particular instance and not do everything the same way because
it's the only way you know. Knowledge is the key to fun and success in
woodturning. Books, videos, demonstrations, and symposiums are all
sources of woodturning knowledge, but private instruction is *BY FAR* the
best way to mastery. Do yourself a favor, treat yourself to some lessons,
and maximize the fun and satisfaction from your time spent at the lathe.

-mike paulson, fort collins, co

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:52:15 +0000, Mike Paulson wrote:
start all over again in this hobby / business / trade, what mistakes did
Books, videos, demonstrations, and symposiums are all
sources of woodturning knowledge, but private instruction is *BY FAR* the
best way to mastery. Do yourself a favor, treat yourself to some lessons,
and maximize the fun and satisfaction from your time spent at the lathe.

-mike paulson, fort collins, co

While I have not yet had any private instruction, I did just recently view
my first video (Woodturning: Fundamentals of Sharpening) from AAW. It was
a good thing to see skilled hands performing this essential skill.

I'll take that back ... I took a class at Woodcraft in using the router.
In that case (and having been an instructor myself) I don't think I got my
money's worth. But there are any number of individuals (including a
couple I know locally) who I'd like to learn from. Although I'll agree
that the education I might get from it would be more than worth the
expense, traveling somewhere in order to pay a high tuition for a week or
even a weekend, just isn't possible for me just yet.

I had high hopes for that router class, but the joints I made (using the
instructors jigs) were better than the ones he made using the same jigs.
Printed material for the class consisted of Shop Notes photocopies and he
touched on too many topics to actually teach any of them ... finally
ending the class a half-hour early so some of the guys could go watch some
game or other.

Even so, I'll be keeping an eye out for a local class from a better
instructor.

Good tip.

Thanks,
Bill

Bill wrote:
start all over again in this hobby / business / trade, what mistakes did
you make the first time around that you'd skip on the second go around?


Read this, by Mike Dunbar:

http://www.americanfurnituredsgn.com/Top10UnavTruthsofWoodwrkin.htm


Read #5 over and over... Read it again before applyign a finish. G

To relate it to my own experience, money spent on hands-on instruction
and books related to woodworking, finishing, and sharpening, has
returned a far better profit than most of the "time and labor saving"
gadgets I purchased as a beginner.

Luckily, much of the crap was easily sold on eBay.

"Mike" wrote in message
ups.com...

Here's one though: We decided that buying rough cut lumber beat the
pants off of dealing with the garbage available at HD/Lowes, and
purchased a 6" Jet jointer and a planer. A year and a half later, I'm
wishing that we'd gone with an 8" jointer, with longer tables. (Why
does it seem like most of the boards we end up with are 6.5 or 7 inches
wide?!?!)

Same reason that if you had the 8" your boards would be 8.5" wide.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Bill wrote:
start all over again in this hobby / business / trade, what mistakes did
you make the first time around that you'd skip on the second go around?

For me, it's a hobby. So I have that slant. The rest of your post
sounds like a business so I'm not sure I can help. But fwiw:

I'd avoid benchtop tools entirely.

I'd find grizzly first (rather than after buying the tools), go there
to check things out in person (which I still haven't done), then not be
a delta snob. Now that I have several delta and several grizzly tools,
I'm kicking myself for not finding griz sooner.

I'd always buy the best tools I could afford even if it meant getting
one good tool instead of two medeocre ones.

I'd give more thought to (pricey) hand tools up front rather than
buying the cheap ones, skipping all that useless info about sharpening,
then passing judgement on hand tools as too hard to use. :-)

I'd start out on smaller projects first rather than aiming big up
front.

I'd give a lot more thought to where the shop is and how nice it is to
be there. I'm getting sick of sharing the garage with all the bikes
and lawn equipment and putting up with the cold weather. We're getting
ready to move. As soon as we're in the new place, i'm building a
dedicated shop. SWMBO is on board already. :-)

I'd start out with more disposable income. :-)

I think I'd skip HF for my mainstay tools EXCEPT where I had carefully
specced the exact tool I needed to buy and HF had a tool that EXACTLY met
that spec or exceeded it. I just bought a Milwaukee 5625-29 router and
it's a real eye-opener. Can't get anything like this at HF.

Yeah, i'd skip HF for almost everything except the really cheap
odd-ball stuff. I might buy a bench grinder or a vice from them for
example, but never anything that I would need or expect to be accurate.

I also think I'd downplay my willingness to do custom work and put more
effort into building inventory to sell from.

The down side here is that you may get bored with what you're making.
The upside is that you'll nail the process and get really efficient.
You'll also have all the jigs and patterns figured out.

And I'd also give more thought to cost tracking so I'd be collecting
needed data from day one.

This is just good business sense.


I find that I have a LOT of pen blanks cut from unremarkable wood. Skip
that ... anything that isn't eye candy is firewood.

Maybe you could come up with a jig that would let you crank them out in
seconds rather than hand-turning each one. Then you could sell them as
discount models.

brian

Mike wrote:
Here's one though: We decided that buying rough cut lumber beat the
pants off of dealing with the garbage available at HD/Lowes, and
purchased a 6" Jet jointer and a planer. A year and a half later, I'm
wishing that we'd gone with an 8" jointer, with longer tables. (Why
does it seem like most of the boards we end up with are 6.5 or 7 inches
wide?!?!)

Ha! This is exactly why I started with a riser block when I bought my
14" bandsaw. It wasn't because I wanted to resaw 12" boards. It was
because I wanted to resaw 7" boards.

After the delta benchtop jointer mistake, I jumped right to the 8"
grizzly dj-20 clone.

I can't believe I actually had foresight for a change. :-)

brian

"Bill" wrote in message
...
start all over again in this hobby / business / trade, what mistakes did
you make the first time around that you'd skip on the second go around?

I'm kind of looking for arrows pointing to where the land mines are.

I think I'd skip HF for my mainstay tools EXCEPT where I had carefully
specced the exact tool I needed to buy and HF had a tool that EXACTLY met
that spec or exceeded it. I just bought a Milwaukee 5625-29 router and
it's a real eye-opener. Can't get anything like this at HF.

I also think I'd downplay my willingness to do custom work and put more
effort into building inventory to sell from.

And I'd also give more thought to cost tracking so I'd be collecting
needed data from day one.

I find that I have a LOT of pen blanks cut from unremarkable wood. Skip
that ... anything that isn't eye candy is firewood.

I've got others ... but I'd like to hear from you.

I agree with you about HF, but not about custom work. What fun is building
inventory? It is the challenge of doing something I haven't done before
that is enjoyable.

"Bill" wrote in news:12jtufon3334t83
@corp.supernews.com:

start all over again in this hobby / business / trade, what mistakes
did
you make the first time around that you'd skip on the second go around?

I'm kind of looking for arrows pointing to where the land mines are.

I think I'd skip HF for my mainstay tools EXCEPT where I had carefully
specced the exact tool I needed to buy and HF had a tool that EXACTLY
met
that spec or exceeded it. I just bought a Milwaukee 5625-29 router and
it's a real eye-opener. Can't get anything like this at HF.

I also think I'd downplay my willingness to do custom work and put more
effort into building inventory to sell from.

And I'd also give more thought to cost tracking so I'd be collecting
needed data from day one.

I find that I have a LOT of pen blanks cut from unremarkable wood. Skip
that ... anything that isn't eye candy is firewood.

I've got others ... but I'd like to hear from you.

Bill


Let's talk about HF. To buy mainstay tools (I think you mean the major
tools in your shop that are used to run your business etc.) from them
would be much less than smart. To buy any tool sight unseen is a question
of faith and hope. If you wish to buy a HF tool, visit a HF store and
place the tool in your hand. I have several HF tools and they are
satifactory for my use. Clamps (Pittsburgh), HSS turning tools (don't
particularly like the grind) for a $35 price per set of eight are a very
good buy. Many turners in this group feel the HF lathes are a good buy.
Building an inventory can be tricky. Pens, bottle stoppers and
utilitarian bowls etc., are the most common turnings I've seen at shows
and shops. I think people are getting less than excited with them. With a
bit of practice, most turners can turn very nice examples of them to
sell. Pens, stoppers, dibbles, etc. don't have a high overhead, so
building an inventory doesn't involve a large outlay.
If you are capable of doing custom work, do it by all means. The
challenge is there and the rest is practice.
The turner makes unremarkable wood, REMARKABLE. How did you acquire all
those pen blanks? A good price may not always be a good price.
Hank

"Bill" wrote in
:

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:52:15 +0000, Mike Paulson wrote:
start all over again in this hobby / business / trade, what mistakes
did
Books, videos, demonstrations, and symposiums are all
sources of woodturning knowledge, but private instruction is *BY FAR*
the best way to mastery. Do yourself a favor, treat yourself to some
lessons, and maximize the fun and satisfaction from your time spent
at the lathe.

-mike paulson, fort collins, co

While I have not yet had any private instruction, I did just recently
view my first video (Woodturning: Fundamentals of Sharpening) from
AAW. It was a good thing to see skilled hands performing this
essential skill.

I'll take that back ... I took a class at Woodcraft in using the
router. In that case (and having been an instructor myself) I don't
think I got my money's worth. But there are any number of individuals
(including a couple I know locally) who I'd like to learn from.
Although I'll agree that the education I might get from it would be
more than worth the expense, traveling somewhere in order to pay a
high tuition for a week or even a weekend, just isn't possible for me
just yet.

I had high hopes for that router class, but the joints I made (using
the instructors jigs) were better than the ones he made using the same
jigs. Printed material for the class consisted of Shop Notes
photocopies and he touched on too many topics to actually teach any of
them ... finally ending the class a half-hour early so some of the
guys could go watch some game or other.

Even so, I'll be keeping an eye out for a local class from a better
instructor.

Good tip.

Thanks,
Bill


What subject did you instruct/teach?

"Mike" wrote in message
It's easy to say that I would have not purchased a small Craftsman
table saw 7 years ago, and instead saved up for a really nice table
saw. Then again, 7 years ago I had no idea that I'd be so into
woodworking years down the road - so maybe that $200 saw shouldn't be
considered a mistake.

Not a mistake at all. I did the same thing, not knowing if I had the talent
to do reasonably decent woodwork; turns out I can do OK. I used that saw
for two years and gave it away and bought a Delta contractors saw.

I do regret buying that Craftsman router though. I've not bought a cheap
tool since so it was a lesson learned.

If I was starting over again I would first decide exactly what type of
things I wanted to make, build, turn. I'd stick with one area ie.
turning or carving or furniture etc. until I became "expert" at it.

I'd talk to those that I admire that do the same type of work. I'd
pick their brain for advice much as you are doing here. I find a good
mentor. I'd take lessons.

I'd start with the minimum number of tools I could get by with and they
would be the best I could afford. I'd think twice or thrice before
buying a new tool once the basics were bought.

I'd do it for my own pleasure rather than selling at least until my own
and family needs for what I produced was satisfied. I would enter
competitions if available in the field I chose.

Then I might try selling, but on my terms at my prices for quality
work!

For what its worth

Bob
London, Ontario



Bill wrote:
start all over again in this hobby / business / trade, what mistakes did
you make the first time around that you'd skip on the second go around?

I'm kind of looking for arrows pointing to where the land mines are.

If I was starting over again I would first decide exactly what type of
things I wanted to make, build, turn. I'd stick with one area ie.
turning or carving or furniture etc. until I became "expert" at it.

I'd talk to those that I admire that do the same type of work. I'd
pick their brain for advice much as you are doing here. I find a good
mentor. I'd take lessons.

I'd start with the minimum number of tools I could get by with and they
would be the best I could afford. I'd think twice or thrice before
buying a new tool once the basics were bought.

I'd do it for my own pleasure rather than selling at least until my own
and family needs for what I produced was satisfied. I would enter
competitions if available in the field I chose.

Then I might try selling, but on my terms at my prices for quality
work!

For what its worth

Bob
London, Ontario



Bill wrote:
start all over again in this hobby / business / trade, what mistakes did
you make the first time around that you'd skip on the second go around?

I'm kind of looking for arrows pointing to where the land mines are.

If I was starting over again I would first decide exactly what type of
things I wanted to make, build, turn. I'd stick with one area ie.
turning or carving or furniture etc. until I became "expert" at it.

I'd talk to those that I admire that do the same type of work. I'd
pick their brain for advice much as you are doing here. I find a good
mentor. I'd take lessons.

I'd start with the minimum number of tools I could get by with and they
would be the best I could afford. I'd think twice or thrice before
buying a new tool once the basics were bought.

I'd do it for my own pleasure rather than selling at least until my own
and family needs for what I produced was satisfied. I would enter
competitions if available in the field I chose.

Then I might try selling, but on my terms at my prices for quality
work!

For what its worth

Bob
London, Ontario



Bill wrote:
start all over again in this hobby / business / trade, what mistakes did
you make the first time around that you'd skip on the second go around?

I'm kind of looking for arrows pointing to where the land mines are.

If I was starting over again I would first decide exactly what type of
things I wanted to make, build, turn. I'd stick with one area ie.
turning or carving or furniture etc. until I became "expert" at it.

I'd talk to those that I admire that do the same type of work. I'd
pick their brain for advice much as you are doing here. I find a good
mentor. I'd take lessons.

I'd start with the minimum number of tools I could get by with and they
would be the best I could afford. I'd think twice or thrice before
buying a new tool once the basics were bought.

I'd do it for my own pleasure rather than selling at least until my own
and family needs for what I produced was satisfied. I would enter
competitions if available in the field I chose.

Then I might try selling, but on my terms at my prices for quality
work!

For what its worth

Bob
London, Ontario



Bill wrote:
start all over again in this hobby / business / trade, what mistakes did
you make the first time around that you'd skip on the second go around?

I'm kind of looking for arrows pointing to where the land mines are.

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 21:55:10 -0500, Henry St.Pierre wrote:


What subject did you instruct/teach?

Well, it was unrealated to this forum, but I taught adult HS dropouts (the
PC term is "non-completers") how to use computers in a business setting.
I taught word processing, database and spreadsheet design, operating
system manipulation. I had 480 class hours and I beat up on them.

But any who passed were hireable ... and that was the goal.

Bill

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 18:07:06 +0000, B A R R Y wrote:

Bill wrote:
start all over again in this hobby / business / trade, what mistakes
did you make the first time around that you'd skip on the second go
around?


Read this, by Mike Dunbar:

http://www.americanfurnituredsgn.com/Top10UnavTruthsofWoodwrkin.htm


Read #5 over and over... Read it again before applyign a finish. G

To relate it to my own experience, money spent on hands-on instruction
and books related to woodworking, finishing, and sharpening, has
returned a far better profit than most of the "time and labor saving"
gadgets I purchased as a beginner.

Luckily, much of the crap was easily sold on eBay.

That page is now a permanent part of the hard-copy manual I am making for
myself. Page one.

I am just now learning (thunk, thunk, thunk ... anyone in there?) about
good tools vs cheaply made tools.

I still think that the best overall strategy includes a mix of top end
tools and barely-adequate tools. And I think that it takes actual shop
experience to know where to shave the corners and where to pay top dollar.

When I came into a LOT of "rough-sawn but worth having" salvage stock
(including 10/4 tamarind) I bought a jointer and a planer ... at HF. Though
miles away from being 'top end', the jointer is more than adequate for my
current, and currently envisioned, uses. But that planer is on the jettison
list because of an inherent design flaw ... the table moves rather than
the head. That makes it effectively impossible to give it larger feed
tables and reduce or eliminate the snipe.

I scraped my knee on that one, but, because it didn't nick me for big
bucks, I didn't shoot my foot off. I now have enough experience that I
will be able to purchase my next one in a reasonably intelligent fashion.

Would I buy HF again? Maybe.

Their nitrile gloves seem to be plenty good enough to protect my hands
from finishes and adhesives. Their 8 pc lathe tool set is (and I HAVE
now bought a few high-end tools) an excellent value for the money. I
would urge new turners to begin there and build out from that starting
point. Their bar clamps work about like brand-name bar clamps of similar
design. Their respirators seem to meet the same standards as others with
the same gubmint ratings.

I doubt if I'll ever buy another of their lathes (I own two)and I am MUCHO
not happy about having to order replacement blades for the planer and the
jointer online.

The old principle still applies ... caveat emptor. That is, let the 'buyer
beware'. Not all HF stuff is of inadequate quality, not everything at
Woodcraft or Rocklers is worth hauling home, either. Sit up straight, look
directly ahead, get rid of that gum and fer cryin' out loud, pay attention!

If someone is a hobbyist I would urge them to go slowly with major tool
acquisitions, taking the time to do careful research. If a business
person, there is no substitute for knowing your business ... all of it.

Bill

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 21:50:35 -0500, Henry St.Pierre wrote:

The turner makes unremarkable wood, REMARKABLE. How did you acquire all
those pen blanks? A good price may not always be a good price.
Hank

Freebies cut on my HF bandsaw. ;-)

Bill