Most of us grew up thinking that big is best, but Is it? So many big
things we once admired are gone. You choose, but the Zeppelins, the
Titanic and the World Trade Center come to mind. It seems that when
anything goes wrong with education, business, government, religion and
yes, woodturning associations, growth, expansion and becoming bigger is
invariably the stock remedy.

Is It truly the same with woodturning? I make no value judgement here,
but It seems the normal and recognized path for most _hobby turners is
to learn on and enjoy many happy hours with their mini lathes. Then they
feel compelled to 'upgrade' to bigger lathes, bigger tools, bigger
shops, bigger timbers, and bigger bowls for bigger satisfactions. IOW,
big is the goal without which the hobby will become little.

Given that bigger is a good thing and a worthy goal for the growth of
the average (I omit dedicated pen and minature folks)
turner, then how much bigger is best?

Of course, big means more than swing; vibration, stability, pride of
gear, etc. also count, but after the first blush of knowing
'youcanturnitbig' wanes, what size bowls, platters and wall plaques are
thereafter turned on these bigger lathes? Is there a practical limit
regardless of the bigness of the gear and timber? Do human sized dining
tables, walls, display shelves and pocket books render a fifty inch
swing on a _hobby lathe moot?

Why did you, Mr. Hobbiest, 'upgrade' to bigger equipment? What is the
size of your big lathe and the usual size of the things that you
regularly turn on it? Cost, space, art and ego aside, can bigger ever
be too big?

For starters, I favor a 16 inch swing lathe and I swivel the headstock
mostly for comfort. I seldom turn anything over 14 inches in
diameter...and I kept my mini. How's by you, big guy?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

"Arch" wrote in message
...
Most of us grew up thinking that big is best, but Is it?

Why did you, Mr. Hobbiest, 'upgrade' to bigger equipment? What is the
size of your big lathe and the usual size of the things that you
regularly turn on it? Cost, space, art and ego aside, can bigger ever
be too big?


Well, as Freud said once, _sometimes_ a cigar is just a cigar. People may
buy to push themselves a bit beyond what they can do, though I rather
suspect there's an element of that "guy thing" in it when the talk of how
big, how heavy or how expensive creeps in to a conversation where how to or
how'd you do is the norm (Norm?).

I went out and turned at capacity on the 3000 when I got it. Then I noticed
that 15.75 is bigger than a lot of toilets, especially after my dear
spouse's "thunder mug" remarks. Got a couple-three dozen big ones waiting
for their turn to market, but I'm not actively searching for size any more,
because it's ornament time.

What I have to do now is work up the courage to say good-bye to Blue,
because I need the space. Not that the new lathe's too big, just too many.

Thanks George, Bjarte & Derek. No argument here about quality, the value
of heavy iron or the 'rightness' of upsizing. (my spell checker
suggested "capsizing" ,
"aspiring" and "baptizing" for "upsizing")
Anyway, I was just wondering about size; not the importance of other
attributes.

I was musing about the relation and limits, if any, of equipment _size
to the pieces we actually turn.

p.s. Bjarte, You'll be pleased to know that my spell checker suggested
"smart" for Bjarte, but we all knew that.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

"Arch" wrote in message
...
Thanks George, Bjarte & Derek. No argument here about quality, the value
of heavy iron or the 'rightness' of upsizing. (my spell checker
suggested "capsizing" ,
"aspiring" and "baptizing" for "upsizing")
Anyway, I was just wondering about size; not the importance of other
attributes.

I was musing about the relation and limits, if any, of equipment _size
to the pieces we actually turn.

p.s. Bjarte, You'll be pleased to know that my spell checker suggested
"smart" for Bjarte, but we all knew that.


(blush, blush

Bjarte

"Arch" wrote in message
...

Given that bigger is a good thing and a worthy goal for the growth of
the average (I omit dedicated pen and minature folks)
turner, then how much bigger is best?

Of course, big means more than swing; vibration, stability, pride of
gear, etc. also count, but after the first blush of knowing


I think you focus too much on size, and too little on quality.
Those two aspects do not follow each other proportionally,
but more so when you get above a certain size of lathe.

I own and used (yes, the past tense is intentional) a Record lathe
with a swing of 12". No stretch of anybodys imagination can conclude
that to be enough for a lifetime of woodturning, not even a handful of
years.
I got really tired of cutting up beautiful big blanks that I only could
handle by
cutting them up.
More than anything, I got tired of vibrations, noise, bad quality nuts and
bolts
and screws, difficult accessibility to parts for repair and adjustment,
and tired of repair and adjustment.

Now I am the happy, very happy owner of a lathe with _enough_ swing,
any speed I choose on a little wheel, heavy enough to stay where it is put,
silent, so I can work and listen to music, spindle lock for easy change of
equipment, reverse for the smooth polish, and indexing for making the
wheels.

I can use my lathe time working at what I want, instead of musing about
what I could have done with a bigger lathe.

In short, I am happy!

Bjarte

Bjarte Runderheim wrote:
Now I am the happy, very happy owner of a lathe with _enough_ swing,
any speed I choose on a little wheel, heavy enough to stay where it is put,
silent, so I can work and listen to music, spindle lock for easy change of
equipment, reverse for the smooth polish, and indexing for making the
wheels.
I can use my lathe time working at what I want, instead of musing about
what I could have done with a bigger lathe.


I agree.

When I upgraded from a Delta 46-700 to the Nova 3000 my turning improved
considerably. Not because I could turn bigger, just better.

If I were to upgrade, I would largely be doing it for even more
robustness and ease of use. A larger lathe (probably a VB36) would let
me turn unbalanced pieces of wood at faster speeds, making for better
cuts and less fatigue.

--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com - a blog for my customers
http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com/TheToolrest/ - a blog for woodturners

Good question from my perspective. I am indebted to a good friend and fine
turner, Maurice Gamblin, for letting me do some of the rough turning on a 5
foot bowl he was working on made from a yellow birch burl. It was wild. The
tools were over 5 feet long and I leaded on the handle and the piece was
still picking me off the floor. It was good to get it out of my system.
The other aspect was simply getting the piece on the lathe. It took both
Maurice's son and myself, neither of us under 200 pounds, with a block and
tackle suspended from an 8x8 in the room overhead to maneuver it into place
while Maurice got it onto the spindle. Frankly, wrestling an eighty or so
pound log for a large mushroom is heavy enough for me.
I like to turn small stuff. A fifteen inch bowl is a lot of salad for me. On
the other hand (somewhere near the third or fourth I think) a lot of my
stuff is spindle oriented; mushrooms, spatulas, chopsticks, ornaments, and
such. Quick and fun. A log goes a long way.
So I have 4 lathes, none of them fancy or expensive. They range from a mini
to a 16" swing. According to Record, my bowl lathe could swing a 36" piece.
Hah!! Not this coward.
Good question Arch.


--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

I suspect the answer is dependant on the turner in question

For myself, I'm just a beginner with a JET mini lathe... I quite happy
with it as it is, for what it can do.

What do I want to upgrade to? well I do - in the lathe department I
think that a 20" swing will be enough for anything I'd ever want to
make and that 16" will be enough for more than 80% of it (especially if
I have swing capability), even now my main problem with my lathe is
mostly space between centers, as I am much more attracted to that type
of turning... and my closest planned upgrade is just to buy the
extension - no lathe purchase is planned for the upcomming few years
(unless I winn the lottery, or decide to switch from hobby to
proffesion).

Other than that I admit to the guy thing, I WANT bigger (even if I
don't really need it). I do need some other shop tools such as a band
saw, and router (I do want to do some other woodworking as well).

Ooops, I left out Kevin's and Meshel's
perceptive posts. They ain't chopped liver!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

"Arch" wrote in message
...
Most of us grew up thinking that big is best, but Is it? So many big
things we once admired are gone. You choose, but the Zeppelins, the
Titanic and the World Trade Center come to mind. It seems that when
anything goes wrong with education, business, government, religion and
yes, woodturning associations, growth, expansion and becoming bigger is
invariably the stock remedy.

From my childhood to now, I've always believed that
airships/zepplins/dirgibles would be a rather elegant and civilized mode of
transporation - gliding above the scenerly like a cloud at a stately and
sedate speed.

Is It truly the same with woodturning? I make no value judgement here,
but It seems the normal and recognized path for most _hobby turners is
to learn on and enjoy many happy hours with their mini lathes. Then they
feel compelled to 'upgrade' to bigger lathes, bigger tools, bigger
shops, bigger timbers, and bigger bowls for bigger satisfactions. IOW,
big is the goal without which the hobby will become little.

This reminds me a bit of a book by Samuel Goldberg titled "Difference
Equations" In the book he provides several examples of systems and how they
change over time. Paraphrasing: Systems tend to gravitate toward an
equibrium. In turning, that equlibrium is a function of the market. The
market is not just what foks are willing to pay for items. The market is
also what the individual turner wants or needs; an internal market if you
will.

Given that bigger is a good thing and a worthy goal for the growth of
the average (I omit dedicated pen and minature folks)
turner, then how much bigger is best?

We really don't know if bigger is better. Bigger, at least for me would be
more bells and whistles to make the turning experience a bit more enjoyable.
I currently have a Jet 1236 and while it has served me well for the past 2
years I would like to have both variable speed control and the ability to
reverse the spin for sanding purposes.

Of course, big means more than swing; vibration, stability, pride of
gear, etc. also count, but after the first blush of knowing
'youcanturnitbig' wanes, what size bowls, platters and wall plaques are
thereafter turned on these bigger lathes? Is there a practical limit
regardless of the bigness of the gear and timber? Do human sized dining
tables, walls, display shelves and pocket books render a fifty inch
swing on a _hobby lathe moot?

I 'spose I could hook up a large chunk of wood to the PTO of a tractor and
give it a twirl with the end result a good sized feeding trough for the
in-laws but that would be a one-off item.

Well Arch, I have about 5 lathes.

The 17x35 shopsmith - though you'd practically need another lathe to
rough in any 17" blank you'd care to turn on it's 700 rpm at slowest,
5/8" spindle, tube-framed flexible self. I do still turn on it
sometimes, but mostly keep it around for its other functions. My first
lathe.

The Plywood-box "bowl lathe" - bought at a price that pretty much
covered the drive system, and worth about that much. All kids of swing,
all kinds of flex, not a great setup.

The 20x60 faye & scott - presently sitting in a shed, awaiting
unearthment into the slowly progressing new shop. Fine quality 1880's
cast iron, spindle threads that will have me making custom adapters,
flat belt drive, Babbit bearings. A bit fluffy, but ought to be pretty
good. Has 70+ inches of outboard swing and a floor-standing tool rest,
if I get a yen for turned tabletops.

The 10x36 or so F. E. Reed, makers (thus quite elderly) - suffered a
crude de-babbiting and spindle swap (bronze bushings clamped into the
babbit shells - not same height as tailstock) before I met it, needs
some tlc to get back in the game properly, also shed-bound at present.

The 17x60 FE Reed & Co, Worcester (thus later, probably 1880s)
engineering (metal/threadcutting) lathe, which probably weighs 2-3x the
similar overall size Faye & Scott (thus the assessment of the F&S as
fluffy). Should let me fix and adapt the others, though I'll probably
end up getting a mill and/or metal shaper as well, eventually.

I've wanted to get a mini lathe of late, simply to have something easily
portable that I can play with without having the shop finished, but keep
being put off by poor design aspects common to the breed (such as the
backwards tailstock supports), and a slight feeling that I have enough
lathes (reinforced by by wife's scathing comments to that effect). I
also have yet another project, that being a Singer base I plan to turn
into a small treadle lathe, which would fill the purpose if finished.
The SS is accessible if I move the pile off of it, and I should be able
to move the others into the shop IF I get the siding on one end, SO I
can move the staging, SO I can get the backhoe out, SO I can pick up the
lathes and put them in the truck...another potential advantage of a mini
lathe - no heavy machinery needed to move it.

I've gotten the bigger, solider lathes in part because the limitations
of the highly flexible shopsmith drove me nuts. Also partly because they
were available pretty cheap - at a big enough size, the thought of
having to have it removed if it does not sell brings the price down
($250 and $400 for the big ones, though rigging was another $250 for the
heavy one). Also, I'm looking towards making turned drum shells in sizes
that will need pretty big lathes, though I have not done so as yet. This
is part of testing the waters for moving into "making money" .vs. just
hobby, though hobby will win out if trying to make money starts ruining
the fun.

I might get to a point where I let the 10x36 go, but I might also just
set it up in a different location so I've got easy access to some lathe.
It's just fine for small bowls (such as one person might eat out of) and
mallets (even butchered as it is), and will be more generally useful if
fixed up to proper working order again.

I vaguely want porch-post size lathes, and have even seen a few go by,
but the rigging costs on those is kinda harsh even if you get one at the
bargain basement price they sometimes go for as US machine shops go
belly up, plus you need overhead cranes to handle the materials and
chucks, etc... If I actually decide to turn porch posts, a box to hold
the 20 inch tailstock and some anchor points in the floor would probably
do it at a better price, or I could grab a few beams and recreate one of
the wooden-bed variety easily enough. Seems like a pretty limited
market, however.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

"Ecnerwal" wrote: (clip) testing the waters for moving into "making money"
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Have you considered opening a lathe museum, and charging admission?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Should be rephrased to : "Cats, coffee, chocolate, lathes...vices to live
by." (Sorry, I couldn't keep the alliteration.)

In article ,
"Leo Lichtman" wrote:

"Ecnerwal" wrote: (clip) testing the waters for moving into "making money"
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Have you considered opening a lathe museum, and charging admission?

No, I have a hard time imagining competing with places like the American
Precision Museum, and I do actually like the using of them, as opposed
to just collecting them.

I probably would not have both of the big ones if they had become
available in the opposite order, but as it is, I can possibly keep the
threadcutter mostly for metal (and occasional wooden vise screws), and
thus not booger it up too badly with wood dust (not so good for
metalworking precision). Mine are not creampuffs, they are grubby
workers, and other than the abused one, are barely broken in at ~120
years. Just your typical Northeast US industrial corridor toys. I
suppose it would give a reason to fix the paintjobs, but at the moment
that's not a big priority, though it is on the list. I've given a whole
minute's thought (when setting up the new shop) to a lineshaft, and
decided that it was crazy, inconvenient, inflexible for shop layout,
hazardous, and far more expensive than individual variable speed motors
on each machine.

I will take a minute to reiterate that a metal lathe which is "worn out"
for metal lathe purposes can be just fine (and nice and heavy and solid)
for wood lathe purposes (at which point more wear from wood dust is not
so much of an issue), though you do need to keep your wits about you
when choosing which metal lathe accessories to use, and which to avoid
like the plague because they might hurt you badly in woodturning (mostly
chucks with projecting jaws, and similar work-holding devices).

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Thanks for mentioning the American Precision Museum, Lawrence. Any
turner going up the Ct. Valley near Windsor Locks should stop by. It has
a large and interesting collection of lathes from the days when N.E. led
the world in machine tools and was first to use parts that were
interchangeable. Used to be a great coffee shop in town; good food &
good gossip!

Liberty tools in Liberty Me. is also worth a stop by for tool junkies,
but bring your own lunch. No cafes or much else there. (sorry Skip, if
you're lurking)


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

"Ecnerwal" wrote: (clip) I've given a whole minute's thought (when setting
up the new shop) to a lineshaft, and decided that it was crazy,
inconvenient, inflexible for shop layout, hazardous, and far more expensive
than individual variable speed motors on each machine.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
But it would be SO COOL.

(Arch) writes:
So many big things we once admired are gone.

Well, sun worshiping is still popular in some parts :-)

Then they feel compelled to 'upgrade' to bigger lathes, bigger
tools, bigger shops, bigger timbers, and bigger bowls for bigger
satisfactions.

The only time I feel compelled to bug bigger anything is when my
current setup proves insufficient for my next project. My current
lathe was sized for table legs, because that's what I had to make
next. I suspect the only real reason I'd upgrade is not because of
bigger bowls, but because of some need to turn a large platter-shaped
part for something. Assuming my current lathe hasn't the mass for it.

But since big tools can do little jobs also, you rarely hear about
someone downgrading - the need just isn't there, unless you're talking
about a high-precision micro tool or portability.

Is there a practical limit regardless of the bigness of the gear
and timber?

I don't know about a practical limit. One of our club members
suggested bolting a steel plate to the 5" square steel post holding up
my house, giving me a six foot swing and enough mass to turn anything
that fit through the door.

But I tend to size tools this way: figure out what I think I'll need
for the next few years or more, and then get the next size up.

Why did you, Mr. Hobbiest, 'upgrade' to bigger equipment?

For my non-lathe upgrades:

Jointer: Found myself working with wider wood than my old jointer
allowed.

Planer: snipe and age.

Drill: Speed and features.

Drill press (pending): excessive wear and quill runout.

What is the size of your big lathe and the usual size of the things
that you regularly turn on it?

Mine is 14x40 but it's a swivel head. I'm hoping someday to try
turning a large platter with it, with the head turned 90° to the bed,
and see if it's workable. So far, 12" finished size seems to be the
limit but I might try a slightly larger segmented bowl via swiveling.
I've got 300lbs of marble chips on the lower shelf adding mass to it,
but larger rough blanks would still be too much.

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 00:01:00 -0500, (Arch) wrote:

Most of us grew up thinking that big is best, but Is it? So many big
things we once admired are gone. You choose, but the Zeppelins, the
Titanic and the World Trade Center come to mind. It seems that when
anything goes wrong with education, business, government, religion and
yes, woodturning associations, growth, expansion and becoming bigger is
invariably the stock remedy.

Is It truly the same with woodturning? I make no value judgement here,
but It seems the normal and recognized path for most _hobby turners is
to learn on and enjoy many happy hours with their mini lathes. Then they
feel compelled to 'upgrade' to bigger lathes, bigger tools, bigger
shops, bigger timbers, and bigger bowls for bigger satisfactions. IOW,
big is the goal without which the hobby will become little.

Given that bigger is a good thing and a worthy goal for the growth of
the average (I omit dedicated pen and minature folks)
turner, then how much bigger is best?

Of course, big means more than swing; vibration, stability, pride of
gear, etc. also count, but after the first blush of knowing
'youcanturnitbig' wanes, what size bowls, platters and wall plaques are
thereafter turned on these bigger lathes? Is there a practical limit
regardless of the bigness of the gear and timber? Do human sized dining
tables, walls, display shelves and pocket books render a fifty inch
swing on a _hobby lathe moot?

Why did you, Mr. Hobbiest, 'upgrade' to bigger equipment? What is the
size of your big lathe and the usual size of the things that you
regularly turn on it? Cost, space, art and ego aside, can bigger ever
be too big?

For starters, I favor a 16 inch swing lathe and I swivel the headstock
mostly for comfort. I seldom turn anything over 14 inches in
diameter...and I kept my mini. How's by you, big guy?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

hey Arch...
I upgraded lathes because I'd outgrown the mini and needed more swing...
What dictated that? Certainly not my skill level.. *g*

In my case, it was the sudden availability of larger pieces of wood... my wife
got a firewood permit and we filled the shop and driveway with 10" to 18"
diameter logs...

The size of the stuff I turn really is dictated by the wood available... this
week I've turned a few 10" bowls, but mainly have been using up branch wood by
turning about a dozen goblets/tea lights/bud vases in the 2" to 5" diameter
range...

I still like to play with mini stuff like 1" tall vases and things.... but the
nice thing about a bigger lathe is like George said, you can turn smaller things
on a big lathe...

It's a LOT easier to turn a 2' diameter candle stick on a 14" swing lathe than
it is to turn a 10" rough bowl on a mini.. DAMHIKT


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 00:01:00 -0500, (Arch) wrote:

What is the size of your big lathe and the usual size of the things that you regularly turn on it?

Sorry, I missed this question on my first reading of your post, Arch..

Jet 1442... 14" swing and reeves type speed control..

Upgraded from a mini and didn't want to upgrade again soon, so I skipped 12"...
Thought about 16" swing, but that pretty much doubles the cost of the lathe..

I turn mostly bowls, 4" to 12" range...

Recently got hooked on a sort of modified goblet shape with a recess that fits
tea lights, so lots of small stuff lately..



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Many thanks to Kevin, Ecner, Darrell, DJ and mac for adding their
perceptive posts. They may not agree with me, (I'm never sure what me
thinks), but it sure is nice when respondors 'get it' but offer their
own takes.

I wonder if there isn't a significant number of tired, decrepit or just
old or disabled turners who are on the down slope of the bell curve for
size? My VL100 is a little jewel and easy to deal with. It's looking
better all the time. Trouble is, there are so many big logs on the
ground in Florida.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

In article ,
(Arch) wrote:

size? My VL100 is a little jewel and easy to deal with. It's looking
better all the time. Trouble is, there are so many big logs on the
ground in Florida.

Thats what chainsaws, or kids/grandkids/neighbors/power-line-crews with
chainsaws, are for. After all, you can make way more little turning
blocks than big bowl blanks from each big hunk of wood...

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

I started turning a long time ago and during that time I've had 8
lathes. The smallest would swing only 8 inches. The largest, my present
lathe, a Nichols, swings 26 inches over the top bed and 38 inches over
the lower bed. I used to turn some pretty big stuff, but now I seldom
turn anything over 12 inches in dia., unless it's the occasional
platter. The big lathe turns small stuff just as well as a small lathe.
Bigger is not necessarily better, but most turners, at some time, want
to give it a try. I used to be into boating, (lived aboard our boat for
a couple of years after retiring) and most boaters dream of a boat
maybe a couple of feet longer. Twofootitis it's called.

Wally

On 3 Nov 2005 17:46:42 -0800, "Wally" wrote:

I started turning a long time ago and during that time I've had 8
lathes. The smallest would swing only 8 inches. The largest, my present
lathe, a Nichols, swings 26 inches over the top bed and 38 inches over
the lower bed. I used to turn some pretty big stuff, but now I seldom
turn anything over 12 inches in dia., unless it's the occasional
platter. The big lathe turns small stuff just as well as a small lathe.
Bigger is not necessarily better, but most turners, at some time, want
to give it a try. I used to be into boating, (lived aboard our boat for
a couple of years after retiring) and most boaters dream of a boat
maybe a couple of feet longer. Twofootitis it's called.

Wally

Been there, done that... after the "fun" part fades, it's just a bigger hole in
the water that needs more money poured into it..

Same with RV's... always have the "shoulda gone a few feet longer to get xx"...
(bed direction, bigger bathroom, bigger windows, etc., etc.)


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 14:22:56 -0500, (Arch) wrote:

Many thanks to Kevin, Ecner, Darrell, DJ and mac for adding their
perceptive posts. They may not agree with me, (I'm never sure what me
thinks), but it sure is nice when respondors 'get it' but offer their
own takes.

I wonder if there isn't a significant number of tired, decrepit or just
old or disabled turners who are on the down slope of the bell curve for
size? My VL100 is a little jewel and easy to deal with. It's looking
better all the time. Trouble is, there are so many big logs on the
ground in Florida.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Once you have a "large" lathe, the only reason that I could see for down sizing
is floor/shop space...
Since you can turn things like pens on a 20" swing lathe, the project size
probably wouldn't be a factor...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

(Arch) wrote:

Many thanks to Kevin, Ecner, Darrell, DJ and mac for adding their
perceptive posts. They may not agree with me, (I'm never sure what me
thinks), but it sure is nice when respondors 'get it' but offer their
own takes.

I wonder if there isn't a significant number of tired, decrepit or just
old or disabled turners who are on the down slope of the bell curve for
size? My VL100 is a little jewel and easy to deal with. It's looking
better all the time. Trouble is, there are so many big logs on the
ground in Florida.

Those would be that Rainbow you were looking for!

Perspective of a big guy.

Arch, and anyone else reading this, I thought I would add my perspective,
not so much as a professional but as a big guy. I like big. Most of the
time small, or even normal size doesn't cut it for me. Big shoes, big
clothes, big hats are just the beginning. I need a big truck just to be
able to get inside. Most cars are more like putting it on instead of
getting into it. A king size bed is a must if there is going to be room for
SWMBO in it along with me. When we bought our most recent digital camera,
one of the first requirements was that it was able to fit in my hand. Most
of them are so small it is almost impossible for me to use them.

Tools are the same way. I have owned a fair number of lathes, and it was
only when I got to my Poolewood that I finally felt like I had a lathe I
could use comfortably without having to worry about breaking it, or shoving
it across the floor by accident. The amount of force I can apply without
even thinking is often above and beyond what most people would consider
normal. SWMBO hates it when I tighten things to what I think is tight. She
can't get them loose again.

Sure, I can use little lathes and little tools, and I even make little
things, but I love big. I can hold 80 lb blanks in one arm while spinning
the handwheel with the other to get them on the lathe without even thinking
about it. For me, big is normal, and the rest of the world is just a little
on the small side. ;-)

--
Bill

Bill Grumbine
www.wonderfulwood.com
www.enter.net/~ultradad


"Arch" wrote in message
...
Most of us grew up thinking that big is best, but Is it? So many big
things we once admired are gone. You choose, but the Zeppelins, the
Titanic and the World Trade Center come to mind. It seems that when
anything goes wrong with education, business, government, religion and
yes, woodturning associations, growth, expansion and becoming bigger is
invariably the stock remedy.

Is It truly the same with woodturning? I make no value judgement here,
but It seems the normal and recognized path for most _hobby turners is
to learn on and enjoy many happy hours with their mini lathes. Then they
feel compelled to 'upgrade' to bigger lathes, bigger tools, bigger
shops, bigger timbers, and bigger bowls for bigger satisfactions. IOW,
big is the goal without which the hobby will become little.

Given that bigger is a good thing and a worthy goal for the growth of
the average (I omit dedicated pen and minature folks)
turner, then how much bigger is best?

Of course, big means more than swing; vibration, stability, pride of
gear, etc. also count, but after the first blush of knowing
'youcanturnitbig' wanes, what size bowls, platters and wall plaques are
thereafter turned on these bigger lathes? Is there a practical limit
regardless of the bigness of the gear and timber? Do human sized dining
tables, walls, display shelves and pocket books render a fifty inch
swing on a _hobby lathe moot?

Why did you, Mr. Hobbiest, 'upgrade' to bigger equipment? What is the
size of your big lathe and the usual size of the things that you
regularly turn on it? Cost, space, art and ego aside, can bigger ever
be too big?

For starters, I favor a 16 inch swing lathe and I swivel the headstock
mostly for comfort. I seldom turn anything over 14 inches in
diameter...and I kept my mini. How's by you, big guy?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Bill Grumbine said:

Perspective of a big guy.

Arch, and anyone else reading this, I thought I would add my perspective,
not so much as a professional but as a big guy. I like big. Most of the
time small, or even normal size doesn't cut it for me. Big shoes, big
clothes, big hats are just the beginning. I need a big truck just to be
able to get inside. Most cars are more like putting it on instead of
getting into it. A king size bed is a must if there is going to be room for
SWMBO in it along with me. When we bought our most recent digital camera,
one of the first requirements was that it was able to fit in my hand. Most
of them are so small it is almost impossible for me to use them.

I won't even comment on where I thought you were headed with this...

;-)

But hey, I hear what you are saying and can empathize in some 'small'
way. I'm NOT a big guy, but I still find the cab of a Ford Ranger too
confining. I can't imagine what it would be like for you to ride
around in it, given your biography.

And as for the cameras, PLEASE. Bought SWMBO a digital camera years
ago. It was an HP, and fairly comfortable in the hand. Pretty good
ergonomics, however. Simple to use was a requirement.

Well, times change and things get better (or the illusion does,
anyway), and I found myself using her camera as much as she. So I
bought one for myself a couple of months ago. They were like slippery
little bars of bath soap, with 32 little pushbuttons on them. I found
the largest one I could, without getting into the 'pro' cameras, and
it still has all these little buttons all over it. I've used up the
entire SS drive by accident by hitting one of those little buttons
accidentally when picking it up, setting it down, or just holding it.
It's a pain.

Tools are the same way. I have owned a fair number of lathes, and it was
only when I got to my Poolewood that I finally felt like I had a lathe I
could use comfortably without having to worry about breaking it, or shoving
it across the floor by accident. The amount of force I can apply without
even thinking is often above and beyond what most people would consider
normal. SWMBO hates it when I tighten things to what I think is tight. She
can't get them loose again.

Bull in a China shop comes to mind... ;-)

Sure, I can use little lathes and little tools, and I even make little
things, but I love big. I can hold 80 lb blanks in one arm while spinning
the handwheel with the other to get them on the lathe without even thinking
about it. For me, big is normal, and the rest of the world is just a little
on the small side. ;-)

WOW! I just realized who I was responding to. A STAR!
Received your DVD a couple of weeks ago. Watched it that evening.
Nice Lathe - nice color - looks durable - looks....well..... BIG!
Enjoyed your DVD as well. It detailed a LARGE number of the aspects
of woodturning. From the chainsaw, to the finished product.
It did seem a bit like it was oriented towards beginning wood turners,
but that is not a criticism, as I am barely beyond that level myself.

Nope, I just can't see you willfully riding around in my truck...




Greg G.

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 18:17:41 -0500, Greg wrote:

Bill Grumbine said:

Perspective of a big guy.

Arch, and anyone else reading this, I thought I would add my perspective,
not so much as a professional but as a big guy. I like big. Most of the
time small, or even normal size doesn't cut it for me. Big shoes, big
clothes, big hats are just the beginning. I need a big truck just to be
able to get inside. Most cars are more like putting it on instead of
getting into it. A king size bed is a must if there is going to be room for
SWMBO in it along with me. When we bought our most recent digital camera,
one of the first requirements was that it was able to fit in my hand. Most
of them are so small it is almost impossible for me to use them.

I won't even comment on where I thought you were headed with this...

;-)

But hey, I hear what you are saying and can empathize in some 'small'
way. I'm NOT a big guy, but I still find the cab of a Ford Ranger too
confining. I can't imagine what it would be like for you to ride
around in it, given your biography.

And as for the cameras, PLEASE. Bought SWMBO a digital camera years
ago. It was an HP, and fairly comfortable in the hand. Pretty good
ergonomics, however. Simple to use was a requirement.

Well, times change and things get better (or the illusion does,
anyway), and I found myself using her camera as much as she. So I
bought one for myself a couple of months ago. They were like slippery
little bars of bath soap, with 32 little pushbuttons on them. I found
the largest one I could, without getting into the 'pro' cameras, and
it still has all these little buttons all over it. I've used up the
entire SS drive by accident by hitting one of those little buttons
accidentally when picking it up, setting it down, or just holding it.
It's a pain.

Tools are the same way. I have owned a fair number of lathes, and it was
only when I got to my Poolewood that I finally felt like I had a lathe I
could use comfortably without having to worry about breaking it, or shoving
it across the floor by accident. The amount of force I can apply without
even thinking is often above and beyond what most people would consider
normal. SWMBO hates it when I tighten things to what I think is tight. She
can't get them loose again.

Bull in a China shop comes to mind... ;-)

Sure, I can use little lathes and little tools, and I even make little
things, but I love big. I can hold 80 lb blanks in one arm while spinning
the handwheel with the other to get them on the lathe without even thinking
about it. For me, big is normal, and the rest of the world is just a little
on the small side. ;-)

WOW! I just realized who I was responding to. A STAR!
Received your DVD a couple of weeks ago. Watched it that evening.
Nice Lathe - nice color - looks durable - looks....well..... BIG!
Enjoyed your DVD as well. It detailed a LARGE number of the aspects
of woodturning. From the chainsaw, to the finished product.
It did seem a bit like it was oriented towards beginning wood turners,
but that is not a criticism, as I am barely beyond that level myself.

Nope, I just can't see you willfully riding around in my truck...




Greg G.

Funny that you should mention trucks, Greg....

In the last 8 or 9 years, as my "turning muscle" has expanded, I've gone from a
Mazda pickup, to a Dodge Dakota that was "just the right size" to a full size
pickup with 4 doors..



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Hi mac, I loved my '91 Dodge Dakota, so I didn't look around for a
different '05 PU. The person who designed those stupid doors to the so
called 'back seat' ought to be strung up or at least have to load
groceries at a crowded parking lot. They can't be opened without opening
the front door. My new PU with is tiny cab space and enormous fenders
reminds me of a pretty woman with a bad disposition. Glad I kept the
'91. It was worthless as trade in.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 13:01:19 -0500, (Arch) wrote:

Hi mac, I loved my '91 Dodge Dakota, so I didn't look around for a
different '05 PU. The person who designed those stupid doors to the so
called 'back seat' ought to be strung up or at least have to load
groceries at a crowded parking lot. They can't be opened without opening
the front door. My new PU with is tiny cab space and enormous fenders
reminds me of a pretty woman with a bad disposition. Glad I kept the
'91. It was worthless as trade in.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Our Dak (01) is the "club cab"... have to reach in back after folding seats
forward... the 99 ram is a "quad cab" but I've only found 1 out of the 4 cabs...
lol
It has the type doors that you're talking about, I think.. used to call them
suicide doors..

The fix to loading groceries is to open front & rear doors, then close front
door... that gives you room for that cart from the borg and access to the back
seat, so you can tie down those 2x4's that run from the tailgate through the
back window and into the front seat.. *g*


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Greg G." wrote in message
...

WOW! I just realized who I was responding to. A STAR!
Received your DVD a couple of weeks ago. Watched it that evening.
Nice Lathe - nice color - looks durable - looks....well..... BIG!
Enjoyed your DVD as well. It detailed a LARGE number of the aspects
of woodturning. From the chainsaw, to the finished product.
It did seem a bit like it was oriented towards beginning wood turners,
but that is not a criticism, as I am barely beyond that level myself.

Nope, I just can't see you willfully riding around in my truck...




Greg G.

Hi Greg

I don't know that I'm a star, at least not yet. Maybe a planetoid. Some
who don't care for me might say asteroid. I'm glad to hear that you liked
the DVD. We are working on a second one, although we seem to be stalled at
the scheduling phase right now.

Small trucks are like small cars for me. I can squeeze in, but only under
protest. I like my Chevy Silverado, and for the past seven years, our
"small" car has been a Suburban. You should have seen the expression on the
cop's face when my daughter parallel parked it for her driving test. He
told her "Now I have a story for all those kids who can't park their little
rice burners" (or something to that effect).


--
Bill

Bill Grumbine
www.wonderfulwood.com
www.enter.net/~ultradad

"Bill Grumbine" wrote: (clip) A king size bed is a must if there is going
to be room for SWMBO in it along with me. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not to get too personal, but it sounds like there could be a safety issue.

Wally will remember when homeshop power tools were lined up and driven
by a single 1/4 hp split phase motor via a series of pulleys on a dinky
1/2" shaft between pillow blocks. What a mess!

I bet Leo meant an overhead assembly with loose flatbelts moved with
long poles between huge pulleys with crowned shives would be cool. It
would get an even cooler shoulder from Lawrence.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

In article ,
(Arch) wrote:

Wally will remember when homeshop power tools were lined up and driven
by a single 1/4 hp split phase motor via a series of pulleys on a dinky
1/2" shaft between pillow blocks. What a mess!

But easy reversing by mounting the drive pulley at 90 degrees to the
driven pulley and twisting the belt. Twist this way for forward and that
way for reverse.

I bet Leo meant an overhead assembly with loose flatbelts moved with
long poles between huge pulleys with crowned shives would be cool. It
would get an even cooler shoulder from Lawrence.

I'm sure he did. I'm sure 3 of my lathes started life that way.

I truly did consider it. Far a few years I was in (rented space) an old
mill building, but they had removed all the shafts eons ago, and were
(still are) letting the turbine rust in the basement rather than make
power with the darn thing. A crying shame...

Turns out I'll probably be making my own power at the new (non-rented)
shop site, since the power company wants way too much money to connect
me, even for a pretty short connection. So the thought of the bitty
diesel that will be a needed part of the system (also some solar,
probably no wind, given the site) driving a lineshaft went through my
head. But the practical issues I previously reported won out.

DC Variable Speed or a VFD and 3-phase motor are a considerable
improvement...but if Leo wants to make a LARGE donation, I'm sure I can
work something out ;-).

Aside from the APM, he can see some exceedingly minor and quite short
duration woodturning (well, diameter reduction though loss of shavings,
anyway) done with water power and an overhead shaft drive during the
brief periods when Hancock Shaker Village fires up the reproduction
water turbine at their mill building. One of my lathes was in not very
much danger of ending up there - I got to emailing with a guy working on
that project who mentioned that they were looking for lineshaft lathes
(since all the equipment, including the turbine they have reproduced,
got patriotically scrapped in WWII), so I offered him one of mine, but
at a price that would replace it with ye modern equivalent, since that's
what it's worth to me (as opposed to what I paid for it). I also
mentioned that they could no doubt do better from someone who valued
theirs less, and they did - they were looking for a smaller one anyway.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

"Ecnerwal" wrote: (clip).but if Leo wants to make a LARGE donation, I'm
sure I can work something out ;-). (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
My donations are always in the form of IDEAS. ;-)
BTW, right now I am amusing myself by visualizing a Jet Minilathe running
off a flat belt off of line shafting.

On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 22:03:12 GMT, "Bill Grumbine"
wrote:

Perspective of a big guy.

Arch, and anyone else reading this, I thought I would add my perspective,
not so much as a professional but as a big guy. I like big. Most of the
time small, or even normal size doesn't cut it for me. Big shoes, big
clothes, big hats are just the beginning. I need a big truck just to be
able to get inside. Most cars are more like putting it on instead of
getting into it. A king size bed is a must if there is going to be room for
SWMBO in it along with me. When we bought our most recent digital camera,
one of the first requirements was that it was able to fit in my hand. Most
of them are so small it is almost impossible for me to use them.

Tools are the same way. I have owned a fair number of lathes, and it was
only when I got to my Poolewood that I finally felt like I had a lathe I
could use comfortably without having to worry about breaking it, or shoving
it across the floor by accident. The amount of force I can apply without
even thinking is often above and beyond what most people would consider
normal. SWMBO hates it when I tighten things to what I think is tight. She
can't get them loose again.

Sure, I can use little lathes and little tools, and I even make little
things, but I love big. I can hold 80 lb blanks in one arm while spinning
the handwheel with the other to get them on the lathe without even thinking
about it. For me, big is normal, and the rest of the world is just a little
on the small side. ;-)

Bill... the image of you turning a little bowl on a Jet mini made me spray
coffee... lol

I can just see it on a 4" high table with an offset for the turning muscle.. *g*


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"mac davis" wrote in message
...


Bill... the image of you turning a little bowl on a Jet mini made me spray
coffee... lol

I can just see it on a 4" high table with an offset for the turning
muscle.. *g*


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Hang onto your coffee Mac! I spent yesterday's turning time doing up some
confetti lights in the 3" and 4" diameter range! I did use the Poolewood
though. ;-)


--
Bill

Bill Grumbine
www.wonderfulwood.com
www.enter.net/~ultradad

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 14:03:28 GMT, "Bill Grumbine"
wrote:


"mac davis" wrote in message
.. .


Bill... the image of you turning a little bowl on a Jet mini made me spray
coffee... lol

I can just see it on a 4" high table with an offset for the turning
muscle.. *g*


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Hang onto your coffee Mac! I spent yesterday's turning time doing up some
confetti lights in the 3" and 4" diameter range! I did use the Poolewood
though. ;-)

I didn't drop it, Bill.. I sort of sprayed it...
Having lots of computer experience, I did manage to turn my head and not hit the
keyboard or monitor..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Bill Grumbine" wrote in message
...
Perspective of a big guy.

Arch, and anyone else reading this, I thought I would add my perspective,
not so much as a professional but as a big guy. I like big. Most of the
time small, or even normal size doesn't cut it for me. Big shoes, big
clothes, big hats are just the beginning.

Seems I am also in the process of developing a 'turning muscle'. Whether it
comes from age or turning, I care not.

Seems I am also in the process of developing a 'turning muscle'. Whether it
comes from age or turning, I care not.

In my case it is a 'burl' not a turning muscle. My Dad referred to his
as a 'Budweiser Tumor.'

On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 15:02:49 -0500, "Kevin" wrote:


"Bill Grumbine" wrote in message
. ..
Perspective of a big guy.

Arch, and anyone else reading this, I thought I would add my perspective,
not so much as a professional but as a big guy. I like big. Most of the
time small, or even normal size doesn't cut it for me. Big shoes, big
clothes, big hats are just the beginning.

Seems I am also in the process of developing a 'turning muscle'. Whether it
comes from age or turning, I care not.

I'm sort of proud of my turning muscle, kevin...
It took a lot of work, pumping those 12 ouncers for many tears, to work up to
the repetitions required... *g*


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing