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Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
Most of us grew up thinking that big is best, but Is it? So many big
things we once admired are gone. You choose, but the Zeppelins, the Titanic and the World Trade Center come to mind. It seems that when anything goes wrong with education, business, government, religion and yes, woodturning associations, growth, expansion and becoming bigger is invariably the stock remedy. Is It truly the same with woodturning? I make no value judgement here, but It seems the normal and recognized path for most _hobby turners is to learn on and enjoy many happy hours with their mini lathes. Then they feel compelled to 'upgrade' to bigger lathes, bigger tools, bigger shops, bigger timbers, and bigger bowls for bigger satisfactions. IOW, big is the goal without which the hobby will become little. Given that bigger is a good thing and a worthy goal for the growth of the average (I omit dedicated pen and minature folks) turner, then how much bigger is best? Of course, big means more than swing; vibration, stability, pride of gear, etc. also count, but after the first blush of knowing 'youcanturnitbig' wanes, what size bowls, platters and wall plaques are thereafter turned on these bigger lathes? Is there a practical limit regardless of the bigness of the gear and timber? Do human sized dining tables, walls, display shelves and pocket books render a fifty inch swing on a _hobby lathe moot? Why did you, Mr. Hobbiest, 'upgrade' to bigger equipment? What is the size of your big lathe and the usual size of the things that you regularly turn on it? Cost, space, art and ego aside, can bigger ever be too big? For starters, I favor a 16 inch swing lathe and I swivel the headstock mostly for comfort. I seldom turn anything over 14 inches in diameter...and I kept my mini. How's by you, big guy? :) Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
"Arch" wrote in message ... Most of us grew up thinking that big is best, but Is it? Why did you, Mr. Hobbiest, 'upgrade' to bigger equipment? What is the size of your big lathe and the usual size of the things that you regularly turn on it? Cost, space, art and ego aside, can bigger ever be too big? Well, as Freud said once, _sometimes_ a cigar is just a cigar. People may buy to push themselves a bit beyond what they can do, though I rather suspect there's an element of that "guy thing" in it when the talk of how big, how heavy or how expensive creeps in to a conversation where how to or how'd you do is the norm (Norm?). I went out and turned at capacity on the 3000 when I got it. Then I noticed that 15.75 is bigger than a lot of toilets, especially after my dear spouse's "thunder mug" remarks. Got a couple-three dozen big ones waiting for their turn to market, but I'm not actively searching for size any more, because it's ornament time. What I have to do now is work up the courage to say good-bye to Blue, because I need the space. Not that the new lathe's too big, just too many. |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
"Arch" wrote in message ... Given that bigger is a good thing and a worthy goal for the growth of the average (I omit dedicated pen and minature folks) turner, then how much bigger is best? Of course, big means more than swing; vibration, stability, pride of gear, etc. also count, but after the first blush of knowing I think you focus too much on size, and too little on quality. Those two aspects do not follow each other proportionally, but more so when you get above a certain size of lathe. I own and used (yes, the past tense is intentional) a Record lathe with a swing of 12". No stretch of anybodys imagination can conclude that to be enough for a lifetime of woodturning, not even a handful of years. I got really tired of cutting up beautiful big blanks that I only could handle by cutting them up. More than anything, I got tired of vibrations, noise, bad quality nuts and bolts and screws, difficult accessibility to parts for repair and adjustment, and tired of repair and adjustment. Now I am the happy, very happy owner of a lathe with _enough_ swing, any speed I choose on a little wheel, heavy enough to stay where it is put, silent, so I can work and listen to music, spindle lock for easy change of equipment, reverse for the smooth polish, and indexing for making the wheels. I can use my lathe time working at what I want, instead of musing about what I could have done with a bigger lathe. In short, I am happy! Bjarte |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
Bjarte Runderheim wrote:
Now I am the happy, very happy owner of a lathe with _enough_ swing, any speed I choose on a little wheel, heavy enough to stay where it is put, silent, so I can work and listen to music, spindle lock for easy change of equipment, reverse for the smooth polish, and indexing for making the wheels. I can use my lathe time working at what I want, instead of musing about what I could have done with a bigger lathe. I agree. When I upgraded from a Delta 46-700 to the Nova 3000 my turning improved considerably. Not because I could turn bigger, just better. If I were to upgrade, I would largely be doing it for even more robustness and ease of use. A larger lathe (probably a VB36) would let me turn unbalanced pieces of wood at faster speeds, making for better cuts and less fatigue. -- Derek Andrews, woodturner http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com http://chipshop.blogspot.com - a blog for my customers http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com/TheToolrest/ - a blog for woodturners |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
I suspect the answer is dependant on the turner in question
For myself, I'm just a beginner with a JET mini lathe... I quite happy with it as it is, for what it can do. What do I want to upgrade to? well I do - in the lathe department I think that a 20" swing will be enough for anything I'd ever want to make and that 16" will be enough for more than 80% of it (especially if I have swing capability), even now my main problem with my lathe is mostly space between centers, as I am much more attracted to that type of turning... and my closest planned upgrade is just to buy the extension - no lathe purchase is planned for the upcomming few years (unless I winn the lottery, or decide to switch from hobby to proffesion). Other than that I admit to the guy thing, I WANT bigger (even if I don't really need it). I do need some other shop tools such as a band saw, and router (I do want to do some other woodworking as well). |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
Thanks George, Bjarte & Derek. No argument here about quality, the value
of heavy iron or the 'rightness' of upsizing. (my spell checker suggested "capsizing" , "aspiring" and "baptizing" for "upsizing") Anyway, I was just wondering about size; not the importance of other attributes. I was musing about the relation and limits, if any, of equipment _size to the pieces we actually turn. p.s. Bjarte, You'll be pleased to know that my spell checker suggested "smart" for Bjarte, but we all knew that. :) Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
"Arch" wrote in message ... Most of us grew up thinking that big is best, but Is it? So many big things we once admired are gone. You choose, but the Zeppelins, the Titanic and the World Trade Center come to mind. It seems that when anything goes wrong with education, business, government, religion and yes, woodturning associations, growth, expansion and becoming bigger is invariably the stock remedy. From my childhood to now, I've always believed that airships/zepplins/dirgibles would be a rather elegant and civilized mode of transporation - gliding above the scenerly like a cloud at a stately and sedate speed. Is It truly the same with woodturning? I make no value judgement here, but It seems the normal and recognized path for most _hobby turners is to learn on and enjoy many happy hours with their mini lathes. Then they feel compelled to 'upgrade' to bigger lathes, bigger tools, bigger shops, bigger timbers, and bigger bowls for bigger satisfactions. IOW, big is the goal without which the hobby will become little. This reminds me a bit of a book by Samuel Goldberg titled "Difference Equations" In the book he provides several examples of systems and how they change over time. Paraphrasing: Systems tend to gravitate toward an equibrium. In turning, that equlibrium is a function of the market. The market is not just what foks are willing to pay for items. The market is also what the individual turner wants or needs; an internal market if you will. Given that bigger is a good thing and a worthy goal for the growth of the average (I omit dedicated pen and minature folks) turner, then how much bigger is best? We really don't know if bigger is better. Bigger, at least for me would be more bells and whistles to make the turning experience a bit more enjoyable. I currently have a Jet 1236 and while it has served me well for the past 2 years I would like to have both variable speed control and the ability to reverse the spin for sanding purposes. Of course, big means more than swing; vibration, stability, pride of gear, etc. also count, but after the first blush of knowing 'youcanturnitbig' wanes, what size bowls, platters and wall plaques are thereafter turned on these bigger lathes? Is there a practical limit regardless of the bigness of the gear and timber? Do human sized dining tables, walls, display shelves and pocket books render a fifty inch swing on a _hobby lathe moot? I 'spose I could hook up a large chunk of wood to the PTO of a tractor and give it a twirl with the end result a good sized feeding trough for the in-laws but that would be a one-off item. |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
Well Arch, I have about 5 lathes.
The 17x35 shopsmith - though you'd practically need another lathe to rough in any 17" blank you'd care to turn on it's 700 rpm at slowest, 5/8" spindle, tube-framed flexible self. I do still turn on it sometimes, but mostly keep it around for its other functions. My first lathe. The Plywood-box "bowl lathe" - bought at a price that pretty much covered the drive system, and worth about that much. All kids of swing, all kinds of flex, not a great setup. The 20x60 faye & scott - presently sitting in a shed, awaiting unearthment into the slowly progressing new shop. Fine quality 1880's cast iron, spindle threads that will have me making custom adapters, flat belt drive, Babbit bearings. A bit fluffy, but ought to be pretty good. Has 70+ inches of outboard swing and a floor-standing tool rest, if I get a yen for turned tabletops. The 10x36 or so F. E. Reed, makers (thus quite elderly) - suffered a crude de-babbiting and spindle swap (bronze bushings clamped into the babbit shells - not same height as tailstock) before I met it, needs some tlc to get back in the game properly, also shed-bound at present. The 17x60 FE Reed & Co, Worcester (thus later, probably 1880s) engineering (metal/threadcutting) lathe, which probably weighs 2-3x the similar overall size Faye & Scott (thus the assessment of the F&S as fluffy). Should let me fix and adapt the others, though I'll probably end up getting a mill and/or metal shaper as well, eventually. I've wanted to get a mini lathe of late, simply to have something easily portable that I can play with without having the shop finished, but keep being put off by poor design aspects common to the breed (such as the backwards tailstock supports), and a slight feeling that I have enough lathes (reinforced by by wife's scathing comments to that effect). I also have yet another project, that being a Singer base I plan to turn into a small treadle lathe, which would fill the purpose if finished. The SS is accessible if I move the pile off of it, and I should be able to move the others into the shop IF I get the siding on one end, SO I can move the staging, SO I can get the backhoe out, SO I can pick up the lathes and put them in the truck...another potential advantage of a mini lathe - no heavy machinery needed to move it. I've gotten the bigger, solider lathes in part because the limitations of the highly flexible shopsmith drove me nuts. Also partly because they were available pretty cheap - at a big enough size, the thought of having to have it removed if it does not sell brings the price down ($250 and $400 for the big ones, though rigging was another $250 for the heavy one). Also, I'm looking towards making turned drum shells in sizes that will need pretty big lathes, though I have not done so as yet. This is part of testing the waters for moving into "making money" .vs. just hobby, though hobby will win out if trying to make money starts ruining the fun. I might get to a point where I let the 10x36 go, but I might also just set it up in a different location so I've got easy access to some lathe. It's just fine for small bowls (such as one person might eat out of) and mallets (even butchered as it is), and will be more generally useful if fixed up to proper working order again. I vaguely want porch-post size lathes, and have even seen a few go by, but the rigging costs on those is kinda harsh even if you get one at the bargain basement price they sometimes go for as US machine shops go belly up, plus you need overhead cranes to handle the materials and chucks, etc... If I actually decide to turn porch posts, a box to hold the 20 inch tailstock and some anchor points in the floor would probably do it at a better price, or I could grab a few beams and recreate one of the wooden-bed variety easily enough. Seems like a pretty limited market, however. -- Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
Good question from my perspective. I am indebted to a good friend and fine
turner, Maurice Gamblin, for letting me do some of the rough turning on a 5 foot bowl he was working on made from a yellow birch burl. It was wild. The tools were over 5 feet long and I leaded on the handle and the piece was still picking me off the floor. It was good to get it out of my system. The other aspect was simply getting the piece on the lathe. It took both Maurice's son and myself, neither of us under 200 pounds, with a block and tackle suspended from an 8x8 in the room overhead to maneuver it into place while Maurice got it onto the spindle. Frankly, wrestling an eighty or so pound log for a large mushroom is heavy enough for me. I like to turn small stuff. A fifteen inch bowl is a lot of salad for me. On the other hand (somewhere near the third or fourth I think) a lot of my stuff is spindle oriented; mushrooms, spatulas, chopsticks, ornaments, and such. Quick and fun. A log goes a long way. So I have 4 lathes, none of them fancy or expensive. They range from a mini to a 16" swing. According to Record, my bowl lathe could swing a 36" piece. Hah!! Not this coward. Good question Arch. -- God bless and safe turning Darrell Feltmate Truro, NS Canada www.aroundthewoods.com |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
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Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
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Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
Many thanks to Kevin, Ecner, Darrell, DJ and mac for adding their
perceptive posts. They may not agree with me, (I'm never sure what me thinks), but it sure is nice when respondors 'get it' but offer their own takes. I wonder if there isn't a significant number of tired, decrepit or just old or disabled turners who are on the down slope of the bell curve for size? My VL100 is a little jewel and easy to deal with. It's looking better all the time. Trouble is, there are so many big logs on the ground in Florida. :) Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
Ooops, I left out Kevin's and Meshel's
perceptive posts. They ain't chopped liver! Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
"Ecnerwal" wrote: (clip) testing the waters for moving into "making money" (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Have you considered opening a lathe museum, and charging admission? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Should be rephrased to : "Cats, coffee, chocolate, lathes...vices to live by." (Sorry, I couldn't keep the alliteration.) |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
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Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
Perspective of a big guy.
Arch, and anyone else reading this, I thought I would add my perspective, not so much as a professional but as a big guy. I like big. Most of the time small, or even normal size doesn't cut it for me. Big shoes, big clothes, big hats are just the beginning. I need a big truck just to be able to get inside. Most cars are more like putting it on instead of getting into it. A king size bed is a must if there is going to be room for SWMBO in it along with me. When we bought our most recent digital camera, one of the first requirements was that it was able to fit in my hand. Most of them are so small it is almost impossible for me to use them. Tools are the same way. I have owned a fair number of lathes, and it was only when I got to my Poolewood that I finally felt like I had a lathe I could use comfortably without having to worry about breaking it, or shoving it across the floor by accident. The amount of force I can apply without even thinking is often above and beyond what most people would consider normal. SWMBO hates it when I tighten things to what I think is tight. She can't get them loose again. Sure, I can use little lathes and little tools, and I even make little things, but I love big. I can hold 80 lb blanks in one arm while spinning the handwheel with the other to get them on the lathe without even thinking about it. For me, big is normal, and the rest of the world is just a little on the small side. ;-) -- Bill Bill Grumbine www.wonderfulwood.com www.enter.net/~ultradad "Arch" wrote in message ... Most of us grew up thinking that big is best, but Is it? So many big things we once admired are gone. You choose, but the Zeppelins, the Titanic and the World Trade Center come to mind. It seems that when anything goes wrong with education, business, government, religion and yes, woodturning associations, growth, expansion and becoming bigger is invariably the stock remedy. Is It truly the same with woodturning? I make no value judgement here, but It seems the normal and recognized path for most _hobby turners is to learn on and enjoy many happy hours with their mini lathes. Then they feel compelled to 'upgrade' to bigger lathes, bigger tools, bigger shops, bigger timbers, and bigger bowls for bigger satisfactions. IOW, big is the goal without which the hobby will become little. Given that bigger is a good thing and a worthy goal for the growth of the average (I omit dedicated pen and minature folks) turner, then how much bigger is best? Of course, big means more than swing; vibration, stability, pride of gear, etc. also count, but after the first blush of knowing 'youcanturnitbig' wanes, what size bowls, platters and wall plaques are thereafter turned on these bigger lathes? Is there a practical limit regardless of the bigness of the gear and timber? Do human sized dining tables, walls, display shelves and pocket books render a fifty inch swing on a _hobby lathe moot? Why did you, Mr. Hobbiest, 'upgrade' to bigger equipment? What is the size of your big lathe and the usual size of the things that you regularly turn on it? Cost, space, art and ego aside, can bigger ever be too big? For starters, I favor a 16 inch swing lathe and I swivel the headstock mostly for comfort. I seldom turn anything over 14 inches in diameter...and I kept my mini. How's by you, big guy? :) Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
In article ,
"Leo Lichtman" wrote: "Ecnerwal" wrote: (clip) testing the waters for moving into "making money" (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Have you considered opening a lathe museum, and charging admission? No, I have a hard time imagining competing with places like the American Precision Museum, and I do actually like the using of them, as opposed to just collecting them. I probably would not have both of the big ones if they had become available in the opposite order, but as it is, I can possibly keep the threadcutter mostly for metal (and occasional wooden vise screws), and thus not booger it up too badly with wood dust (not so good for metalworking precision). Mine are not creampuffs, they are grubby workers, and other than the abused one, are barely broken in at ~120 years. Just your typical Northeast US industrial corridor toys. I suppose it would give a reason to fix the paintjobs, but at the moment that's not a big priority, though it is on the list. I've given a whole minute's thought (when setting up the new shop) to a lineshaft, and decided that it was crazy, inconvenient, inflexible for shop layout, hazardous, and far more expensive than individual variable speed motors on each machine. I will take a minute to reiterate that a metal lathe which is "worn out" for metal lathe purposes can be just fine (and nice and heavy and solid) for wood lathe purposes (at which point more wear from wood dust is not so much of an issue), though you do need to keep your wits about you when choosing which metal lathe accessories to use, and which to avoid like the plague because they might hurt you badly in woodturning (mostly chucks with projecting jaws, and similar work-holding devices). -- Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
Bill Grumbine said:
Perspective of a big guy. Arch, and anyone else reading this, I thought I would add my perspective, not so much as a professional but as a big guy. I like big. Most of the time small, or even normal size doesn't cut it for me. Big shoes, big clothes, big hats are just the beginning. I need a big truck just to be able to get inside. Most cars are more like putting it on instead of getting into it. A king size bed is a must if there is going to be room for SWMBO in it along with me. When we bought our most recent digital camera, one of the first requirements was that it was able to fit in my hand. Most of them are so small it is almost impossible for me to use them. I won't even comment on where I thought you were headed with this... ;-) But hey, I hear what you are saying and can empathize in some 'small' way. I'm NOT a big guy, but I still find the cab of a Ford Ranger too confining. I can't imagine what it would be like for you to ride around in it, given your biography. And as for the cameras, PLEASE. Bought SWMBO a digital camera years ago. It was an HP, and fairly comfortable in the hand. Pretty good ergonomics, however. Simple to use was a requirement. Well, times change and things get better (or the illusion does, anyway), and I found myself using her camera as much as she. So I bought one for myself a couple of months ago. They were like slippery little bars of bath soap, with 32 little pushbuttons on them. I found the largest one I could, without getting into the 'pro' cameras, and it still has all these little buttons all over it. I've used up the entire SS drive by accident by hitting one of those little buttons accidentally when picking it up, setting it down, or just holding it. It's a pain. Tools are the same way. I have owned a fair number of lathes, and it was only when I got to my Poolewood that I finally felt like I had a lathe I could use comfortably without having to worry about breaking it, or shoving it across the floor by accident. The amount of force I can apply without even thinking is often above and beyond what most people would consider normal. SWMBO hates it when I tighten things to what I think is tight. She can't get them loose again. Bull in a China shop comes to mind... ;-) Sure, I can use little lathes and little tools, and I even make little things, but I love big. I can hold 80 lb blanks in one arm while spinning the handwheel with the other to get them on the lathe without even thinking about it. For me, big is normal, and the rest of the world is just a little on the small side. ;-) WOW! I just realized who I was responding to. A STAR! Received your DVD a couple of weeks ago. Watched it that evening. Nice Lathe - nice color - looks durable - looks....well..... BIG! Enjoyed your DVD as well. It detailed a LARGE number of the aspects of woodturning. From the chainsaw, to the finished product. It did seem a bit like it was oriented towards beginning wood turners, but that is not a criticism, as I am barely beyond that level myself. Nope, I just can't see you willfully riding around in my truck... Greg G. |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
I started turning a long time ago and during that time I've had 8
lathes. The smallest would swing only 8 inches. The largest, my present lathe, a Nichols, swings 26 inches over the top bed and 38 inches over the lower bed. I used to turn some pretty big stuff, but now I seldom turn anything over 12 inches in dia., unless it's the occasional platter. The big lathe turns small stuff just as well as a small lathe. Bigger is not necessarily better, but most turners, at some time, want to give it a try. I used to be into boating, (lived aboard our boat for a couple of years after retiring) and most boaters dream of a boat maybe a couple of feet longer. Twofootitis it's called. Wally |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
Thanks for mentioning the American Precision Museum, Lawrence. Any
turner going up the Ct. Valley near Windsor Locks should stop by. It has a large and interesting collection of lathes from the days when N.E. led the world in machine tools and was first to use parts that were interchangeable. Used to be a great coffee shop in town; good food & good gossip! Liberty tools in Liberty Me. is also worth a stop by for tool junkies, but bring your own lunch. No cafes or much else there. (sorry Skip, if you're lurking) Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
"Ecnerwal" wrote: (clip) I've given a whole minute's thought (when setting
up the new shop) to a lineshaft, and decided that it was crazy, inconvenient, inflexible for shop layout, hazardous, and far more expensive than individual variable speed motors on each machine. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ But it would be SO COOL. |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
"Bill Grumbine" wrote: (clip) A king size bed is a must if there is going
to be room for SWMBO in it along with me. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Not to get too personal, but it sounds like there could be a safety issue. |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
When I upgraded from a 12" lathe to a Stubby 750, much of the reason
was that "bigger is bigger". What I quickly realized when the Stubby arrived is that "bigger is better - quality" for all the reasons stated. I still turn a number of things that go beyond the 12" lathe, but I turn a lot of small bowls and vessels too. Bigger means more stable, less vibration, reversing capability, variable speed, remote pendant, etc. Having spent close to $5,000 on that lathe, however, it was still the cheap part of this hobby. Going back to Arch's original post, we all have large eyes for all sorts of things. For me, its wood and tools. Joe Fleming - San Diego |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
Wally will remember when homeshop power tools were lined up and driven
by a single 1/4 hp split phase motor via a series of pulleys on a dinky 1/2" shaft between pillow blocks. What a mess! I bet Leo meant an overhead assembly with loose flatbelts moved with long poles between huge pulleys with crowned shives would be cool. It would get an even cooler shoulder from Lawrence. :) Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
I too, started my serious turning phase on a Jet Mini lathe my wife bought
me for Christmas 2001. After a few days, I was hooked. I never stopped looking for a larger lathe. (I was looking for one when I got the mini for Christmas.) The mini served its purpose. I learned the basics on the mini. I found out what I really desired in a larger lathe..........stability, smoothness, quietness, more power, in addition to the capacity to turn larger items. This past January, I graduated to a Stubby 750. I kept the Jet Mini and still use it for items like winestoppers, etc. I don't like it any less now that I have a larger "big name" lathe. I had a lot of fun with the mini and still do. I have more fun on the Stubby, but probably not in proportion to the respective prices. We paid $350 for the mini and $5000+ for the Stubby. The Mini may well be the greater bargain, although I wouldn't want to give either one up. I have had my Stubby almost a year. Although I turn larger items now, I still have not turned anything that even approached the capacity of my lathe. I appreciate the solidity and versatility of the larger lathe and of course the variable speed control, although that feature really isn't needed on the mini. I can't say that it is any smoother or quieter than the mini. And, I love the additional power. Let's not forget that the lathe is just a tool, albeit a large one. As such, it is just a means to get a particular job done, which is quite simply to remove wood and make it round. Barry "Arch" wrote in message ... Most of us grew up thinking that big is best, but Is it? So many big things we once admired are gone. You choose, but the Zeppelins, the Titanic and the World Trade Center come to mind. It seems that when anything goes wrong with education, business, government, religion and yes, woodturning associations, growth, expansion and becoming bigger is invariably the stock remedy. Is It truly the same with woodturning? I make no value judgement here, but It seems the normal and recognized path for most _hobby turners is to learn on and enjoy many happy hours with their mini lathes. Then they feel compelled to 'upgrade' to bigger lathes, bigger tools, bigger shops, bigger timbers, and bigger bowls for bigger satisfactions. IOW, big is the goal without which the hobby will become little. Given that bigger is a good thing and a worthy goal for the growth of the average (I omit dedicated pen and minature folks) turner, then how much bigger is best? Of course, big means more than swing; vibration, stability, pride of gear, etc. also count, but after the first blush of knowing 'youcanturnitbig' wanes, what size bowls, platters and wall plaques are thereafter turned on these bigger lathes? Is there a practical limit regardless of the bigness of the gear and timber? Do human sized dining tables, walls, display shelves and pocket books render a fifty inch swing on a _hobby lathe moot? Why did you, Mr. Hobbiest, 'upgrade' to bigger equipment? What is the size of your big lathe and the usual size of the things that you regularly turn on it? Cost, space, art and ego aside, can bigger ever be too big? For starters, I favor a 16 inch swing lathe and I swivel the headstock mostly for comfort. I seldom turn anything over 14 inches in diameter...and I kept my mini. How's by you, big guy? :) Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
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Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 14:22:56 -0500, (Arch) wrote:
Many thanks to Kevin, Ecner, Darrell, DJ and mac for adding their perceptive posts. They may not agree with me, (I'm never sure what me thinks), but it sure is nice when respondors 'get it' but offer their own takes. I wonder if there isn't a significant number of tired, decrepit or just old or disabled turners who are on the down slope of the bell curve for size? My VL100 is a little jewel and easy to deal with. It's looking better all the time. Trouble is, there are so many big logs on the ground in Florida. :) Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings Once you have a "large" lathe, the only reason that I could see for down sizing is floor/shop space... Since you can turn things like pens on a 20" swing lathe, the project size probably wouldn't be a factor... mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
On 3 Nov 2005 17:46:42 -0800, "Wally" wrote:
I started turning a long time ago and during that time I've had 8 lathes. The smallest would swing only 8 inches. The largest, my present lathe, a Nichols, swings 26 inches over the top bed and 38 inches over the lower bed. I used to turn some pretty big stuff, but now I seldom turn anything over 12 inches in dia., unless it's the occasional platter. The big lathe turns small stuff just as well as a small lathe. Bigger is not necessarily better, but most turners, at some time, want to give it a try. I used to be into boating, (lived aboard our boat for a couple of years after retiring) and most boaters dream of a boat maybe a couple of feet longer. Twofootitis it's called. Wally Been there, done that... after the "fun" part fades, it's just a bigger hole in the water that needs more money poured into it.. Same with RV's... always have the "shoulda gone a few feet longer to get xx"... (bed direction, bigger bathroom, bigger windows, etc., etc.) mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 22:03:12 GMT, "Bill Grumbine"
wrote: Perspective of a big guy. Arch, and anyone else reading this, I thought I would add my perspective, not so much as a professional but as a big guy. I like big. Most of the time small, or even normal size doesn't cut it for me. Big shoes, big clothes, big hats are just the beginning. I need a big truck just to be able to get inside. Most cars are more like putting it on instead of getting into it. A king size bed is a must if there is going to be room for SWMBO in it along with me. When we bought our most recent digital camera, one of the first requirements was that it was able to fit in my hand. Most of them are so small it is almost impossible for me to use them. Tools are the same way. I have owned a fair number of lathes, and it was only when I got to my Poolewood that I finally felt like I had a lathe I could use comfortably without having to worry about breaking it, or shoving it across the floor by accident. The amount of force I can apply without even thinking is often above and beyond what most people would consider normal. SWMBO hates it when I tighten things to what I think is tight. She can't get them loose again. Sure, I can use little lathes and little tools, and I even make little things, but I love big. I can hold 80 lb blanks in one arm while spinning the handwheel with the other to get them on the lathe without even thinking about it. For me, big is normal, and the rest of the world is just a little on the small side. ;-) Bill... the image of you turning a little bowl on a Jet mini made me spray coffee... lol I can just see it on a 4" high table with an offset for the turning muscle.. *g* mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 18:17:41 -0500, Greg wrote:
Bill Grumbine said: Perspective of a big guy. Arch, and anyone else reading this, I thought I would add my perspective, not so much as a professional but as a big guy. I like big. Most of the time small, or even normal size doesn't cut it for me. Big shoes, big clothes, big hats are just the beginning. I need a big truck just to be able to get inside. Most cars are more like putting it on instead of getting into it. A king size bed is a must if there is going to be room for SWMBO in it along with me. When we bought our most recent digital camera, one of the first requirements was that it was able to fit in my hand. Most of them are so small it is almost impossible for me to use them. I won't even comment on where I thought you were headed with this... ;-) But hey, I hear what you are saying and can empathize in some 'small' way. I'm NOT a big guy, but I still find the cab of a Ford Ranger too confining. I can't imagine what it would be like for you to ride around in it, given your biography. And as for the cameras, PLEASE. Bought SWMBO a digital camera years ago. It was an HP, and fairly comfortable in the hand. Pretty good ergonomics, however. Simple to use was a requirement. Well, times change and things get better (or the illusion does, anyway), and I found myself using her camera as much as she. So I bought one for myself a couple of months ago. They were like slippery little bars of bath soap, with 32 little pushbuttons on them. I found the largest one I could, without getting into the 'pro' cameras, and it still has all these little buttons all over it. I've used up the entire SS drive by accident by hitting one of those little buttons accidentally when picking it up, setting it down, or just holding it. It's a pain. Tools are the same way. I have owned a fair number of lathes, and it was only when I got to my Poolewood that I finally felt like I had a lathe I could use comfortably without having to worry about breaking it, or shoving it across the floor by accident. The amount of force I can apply without even thinking is often above and beyond what most people would consider normal. SWMBO hates it when I tighten things to what I think is tight. She can't get them loose again. Bull in a China shop comes to mind... ;-) Sure, I can use little lathes and little tools, and I even make little things, but I love big. I can hold 80 lb blanks in one arm while spinning the handwheel with the other to get them on the lathe without even thinking about it. For me, big is normal, and the rest of the world is just a little on the small side. ;-) WOW! I just realized who I was responding to. A STAR! Received your DVD a couple of weeks ago. Watched it that evening. Nice Lathe - nice color - looks durable - looks....well..... BIG! Enjoyed your DVD as well. It detailed a LARGE number of the aspects of woodturning. From the chainsaw, to the finished product. It did seem a bit like it was oriented towards beginning wood turners, but that is not a criticism, as I am barely beyond that level myself. Nope, I just can't see you willfully riding around in my truck... Greg G. Funny that you should mention trucks, Greg.... In the last 8 or 9 years, as my "turning muscle" has expanded, I've gone from a Mazda pickup, to a Dodge Dakota that was "just the right size" to a full size pickup with 4 doors.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness' (OT rant)
Hi mac, I loved my '91 Dodge Dakota, so I didn't look around for a
different '05 PU. The person who designed those stupid doors to the so called 'back seat' ought to be strung up or at least have to load groceries at a crowded parking lot. They can't be opened without opening the front door. My new PU with is tiny cab space and enormous fenders reminds me of a pretty woman with a bad disposition. Glad I kept the '91. It was worthless as trade in. Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
"Bill Grumbine" wrote in message ... Perspective of a big guy. Arch, and anyone else reading this, I thought I would add my perspective, not so much as a professional but as a big guy. I like big. Most of the time small, or even normal size doesn't cut it for me. Big shoes, big clothes, big hats are just the beginning. Seems I am also in the process of developing a 'turning muscle'. Whether it comes from age or turning, I care not. |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
Seems I am also in the process of developing a 'turning muscle'. Whether it
comes from age or turning, I care not. In my case it is a 'burl' not a turning muscle. My Dad referred to his as a 'Budweiser Tumor.' |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
"Ecnerwal" wrote: (clip).but if Leo wants to make a LARGE donation, I'm
sure I can work something out ;-). (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ My donations are always in the form of IDEAS. ;-) BTW, right now I am amusing myself by visualizing a Jet Minilathe running off a flat belt off of line shafting. |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
Not sure on that one Barry - largely right.. :-)
When we moved this time to our 'retirement' home - read that semi-retirement (more work /day it seems!) - she flatly stated - get the shop you want and what comes with it we will fit into. I bought 4 houses for her - this time I got the shop! Yes on the TV...... Martin Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder Barry N. Turner wrote: It's an American tradition. Bigger is Better. Or so it seems. Women want bigger houses, cars, TV's. bank accounts, boobs, etc. Women however want to be skinnier (smaller). Men want much the same things women want; bigger houses, cars, TV's, bank accounts, boobs (on their women), etc. On a personal level, men want bigger muscles. Hardly anyone is happy with what they have. Have you noticed? :-) Barry "Arch" wrote in message ... Most of us grew up thinking that big is best, but Is it? So many big things we once admired are gone. You choose, but the Zeppelins, the Titanic and the World Trade Center come to mind. It seems that when anything goes wrong with education, business, government, religion and yes, woodturning associations, growth, expansion and becoming bigger is invariably the stock remedy. Is It truly the same with woodturning? I make no value judgement here, but It seems the normal and recognized path for most _hobby turners is to learn on and enjoy many happy hours with their mini lathes. Then they feel compelled to 'upgrade' to bigger lathes, bigger tools, bigger shops, bigger timbers, and bigger bowls for bigger satisfactions. IOW, big is the goal without which the hobby will become little. Given that bigger is a good thing and a worthy goal for the growth of the average (I omit dedicated pen and minature folks) turner, then how much bigger is best? Of course, big means more than swing; vibration, stability, pride of gear, etc. also count, but after the first blush of knowing 'youcanturnitbig' wanes, what size bowls, platters and wall plaques are thereafter turned on these bigger lathes? Is there a practical limit regardless of the bigness of the gear and timber? Do human sized dining tables, walls, display shelves and pocket books render a fifty inch swing on a _hobby lathe moot? Why did you, Mr. Hobbiest, 'upgrade' to bigger equipment? What is the size of your big lathe and the usual size of the things that you regularly turn on it? Cost, space, art and ego aside, can bigger ever be too big? For starters, I favor a 16 inch swing lathe and I swivel the headstock mostly for comfort. I seldom turn anything over 14 inches in diameter...and I kept my mini. How's by you, big guy? :) Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
"Barry N. Turner" wrote in message .. . It's an American tradition. Bigger is Better. Or so it seems. Women want bigger houses, cars, TV's. bank accounts, boobs, etc. Women however want to be skinnier (smaller). Men want much the same things women want; bigger houses, cars, TV's, bank accounts, boobs (on their women), etc. On a personal level, men want bigger muscles. Hardly anyone is happy with what they have. Have you noticed? :-) "You can never be to rich or too thin." -Wallace Warfield Simpson (Windsor) |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
It's an American tradition. Bigger is Better. Or so it seems. Women want
bigger houses, cars, TV's. bank accounts, boobs, etc. Women however want to be skinnier (smaller). Men want much the same things women want; bigger houses, cars, TV's, bank accounts, boobs (on their women), etc. On a personal level, men want bigger muscles. Hardly anyone is happy with what they have. Have you noticed? :-) Barry "Arch" wrote in message ... Most of us grew up thinking that big is best, but Is it? So many big things we once admired are gone. You choose, but the Zeppelins, the Titanic and the World Trade Center come to mind. It seems that when anything goes wrong with education, business, government, religion and yes, woodturning associations, growth, expansion and becoming bigger is invariably the stock remedy. Is It truly the same with woodturning? I make no value judgement here, but It seems the normal and recognized path for most _hobby turners is to learn on and enjoy many happy hours with their mini lathes. Then they feel compelled to 'upgrade' to bigger lathes, bigger tools, bigger shops, bigger timbers, and bigger bowls for bigger satisfactions. IOW, big is the goal without which the hobby will become little. Given that bigger is a good thing and a worthy goal for the growth of the average (I omit dedicated pen and minature folks) turner, then how much bigger is best? Of course, big means more than swing; vibration, stability, pride of gear, etc. also count, but after the first blush of knowing 'youcanturnitbig' wanes, what size bowls, platters and wall plaques are thereafter turned on these bigger lathes? Is there a practical limit regardless of the bigness of the gear and timber? Do human sized dining tables, walls, display shelves and pocket books render a fifty inch swing on a _hobby lathe moot? Why did you, Mr. Hobbiest, 'upgrade' to bigger equipment? What is the size of your big lathe and the usual size of the things that you regularly turn on it? Cost, space, art and ego aside, can bigger ever be too big? For starters, I favor a 16 inch swing lathe and I swivel the headstock mostly for comfort. I seldom turn anything over 14 inches in diameter...and I kept my mini. How's by you, big guy? :) Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
"mac davis" wrote in message ... Bill... the image of you turning a little bowl on a Jet mini made me spray coffee... lol I can just see it on a 4" high table with an offset for the turning muscle.. *g* mac Please remove splinters before emailing Hang onto your coffee Mac! I spent yesterday's turning time doing up some confetti lights in the 3" and 4" diameter range! I did use the Poolewood though. ;-) -- Bill Bill Grumbine www.wonderfulwood.com www.enter.net/~ultradad |
Sizing up our hobby. Musing about 'bigness'
"Greg G." wrote in message ... WOW! I just realized who I was responding to. A STAR! Received your DVD a couple of weeks ago. Watched it that evening. Nice Lathe - nice color - looks durable - looks....well..... BIG! Enjoyed your DVD as well. It detailed a LARGE number of the aspects of woodturning. From the chainsaw, to the finished product. It did seem a bit like it was oriented towards beginning wood turners, but that is not a criticism, as I am barely beyond that level myself. Nope, I just can't see you willfully riding around in my truck... Greg G. Hi Greg I don't know that I'm a star, at least not yet. Maybe a planetoid. Some who don't care for me might say asteroid. I'm glad to hear that you liked the DVD. We are working on a second one, although we seem to be stalled at the scheduling phase right now. Small trucks are like small cars for me. I can squeeze in, but only under protest. I like my Chevy Silverado, and for the past seven years, our "small" car has been a Suburban. You should have seen the expression on the cop's face when my daughter parallel parked it for her driving test. He told her "Now I have a story for all those kids who can't park their little rice burners" (or something to that effect). -- Bill Bill Grumbine www.wonderfulwood.com www.enter.net/~ultradad |
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