I've made too many 'not quite as good as I could do' turnings. Not bad,
but not great. I guess the major reason is an abundance of caution to
not lose all the time and work I had already put into the piece, but is
giving up 'good' to assure 'something less than good' make any sense for
a hobby turner?

I think not, so why do I do it? The old belt & suspenders thing?
Satisfaction with the ordinary? Rather three average instead one good?
Hate of waste? Timidity? Sloth? Ignorance? Incompetence? What?

I realize that a bowl sitting untouched on a high shelf can hide or
compensate for much 'less than good' work and many won't know anyway,
but if any of you feel some guilt or are not entirely satsfied with a
slightly clunky bowl you've turned with caution, why did _you do it?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Arch, many years ago I made a promise to myself....that I would never,
ever, look at a piece that I was turning and say "that's good
enough"....instead I would continue working on it until I could say
"that's as good as I can do"

By taking that one last cut, you may end up losing a piece on a rare
occasion, but isn't that part of the game?

Wally

Arch,

My first dry wood bowl in class and I cut that mother to an 1/8" UNIFORMLY
all the way through the sides. Not a ripple. Cut a mortise and then a walnut
foot with tenon for a base. So proud!!

Everybody says it's beautiful "but why is it so light?"
Think every bowl at the John C. Campbell festival tapered to a heavy thick
bottom. Bowls at Gatlinburg same. No where's close to worrying about
breakout. Sanding marks, ripples, and tear out were common as hell.

So my "masterpiece" ends up being judged as funky. And here I thought the
skill to achieve thin and smooth was desireable!

Well, I like it and it's my bowl - so I'm happy.

TomNie


"Arch" wrote in message
...
I've made too many 'not quite as good as I could do' turnings. Not bad,
but not great. I guess the major reason is an abundance of caution to
not lose all the time and work I had already put into the piece, but is
giving up 'good' to assure 'something less than good' make any sense for
a hobby turner?

I think not, so why do I do it? The old belt & suspenders thing?
Satisfaction with the ordinary? Rather three average instead one good?
Hate of waste? Timidity? Sloth? Ignorance? Incompetence? What?

I realize that a bowl sitting untouched on a high shelf can hide or
compensate for much 'less than good' work and many won't know anyway,
but if any of you feel some guilt or are not entirely satsfied with a
slightly clunky bowl you've turned with caution, why did _you do it?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Hi Wally,

Thanks for your response. A lonely orphan musing is sad, "a poor thing
but mine own".

You sure kept your promise to yourself and you have our admiration and
respect to prove it. So say all of us!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Thanks Arch.....Tom, anyone that that thinks a thin piece is "funky"
should look at the very thin and very expensive work of turners like
Ellsworth, Frank Sudol, Binh Pho, J. Paul Fennel and others. .....They
all command prices in the thousands. Just maybe thin is good.

Wally

Well, I say take the last cut. You never expand your skills or
understand what your limits are unless you do. The trick is to be
dedicated to the task (no matter what) that you do it enough times that
it is not a tragedy if it doesn't work.

Years ago (could it really be 30?) when paneling was in style, I
learned to scribe cut corners with a circular saw. My boss demanded
tight corners... one too many trims and the whole sheet was ruined.
Not trimmed close enough, and the work was unacceptable. So you had to
suck it up and cut. But once mastered, it really bolstered my
confidence to do even more difficult carpentry projects.

Same principle here... you will never know how good you are or where
you need to practice until you stretch out your current skills.

As for Tom's remarks.... ditto. It has been noticed here (I actually
think by Arch!) that we either a) turn for ourselves and the club, or
b) we turn for other people. I have a magnolia vase that is about 8
1/2" tall, and the walls are 3/32 thick, with a small base and a 1/4"
rim on the top. Really one of my better efforts. But no one wants to
handle it or buy it because it seems to fragile.

However, knock out a "rustic" nut bowl, and people can't keep their
hands off of it. "Feels solid" they say, or "nice weight". You would
think they are buying the bowl by the pound. Those sell, the artsy
stuff doesn't.

Soo... make your last cut for yourself, your won personal pleasure.
Stop three cuts before that and sell what you made so you can buy more
tools!

Keep 'em comin' Arch.

Robert

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your take on this old and maybe worn out question. Also I
wonder how we can know for any one turning, when we've done our best and
it's time to quit. Turnings are made less instead of more as often by
not quitting as by quitting. Cutting thru the wall isn't the only way to
spoil a worthy turning.

I think there is a difference in being happy or even proud of a turning
and being satisfied with it. Happy is the turner who can achieve both,
and denied or suppressed aspirations to become better truly don't nag at
him.

Being ordinary can be a good thing...for those who really believe it and
feel no need for strong protestations.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Forgive me Robert, but your vase reminds me of one or two Southern
Female 'Magnolias' I have known. Nubile! Fragile! and if not handled
with care, Hostile! Expensive and sometimes hard to sell.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Let me throw another log on the fire.

Couple sisters inherited their father's woodturning business outside and
just East of Gatlinburg, TN; Proffitt's Woodworking. Saw their work, among
others, at a gift shop and managed to find their location.

Why? Well, these were simple items but they were flawless. Probably $40 item
the most expensive. But they were flawless and they were the ONLY flawless
items including the "art" galleries as best as I could see. I had to meet
the folks.

Their dad started them on "grapes" before he'd let them do other stuff. Had
to turn those little round devils and fasten them to a stick to make
"grapes". Pure, old-fashioned pride in what they do means they do them FAST
but well. When I mentioned some of the other 'artists' whose work I'd seen
the one lady just sorta rolled her eyes but wouldn't say a word.

Little building alongside the Hwy 321 with woods behind. Their dad had
managed to get a plate glass window from some old building and when he built
the shop he put it across the back wall and next to the rollup garage door.
His lathe faced the window and the deer, etc.

They still get excited seeing the deer.

TomNie


"Arch" wrote in message
...
I've made too many 'not quite as good as I could do' turnings. Not bad,
but not great. I guess the major reason is an abundance of caution to
not lose all the time and work I had already put into the piece, but is
giving up 'good' to assure 'something less than good' make any sense for
a hobby turner?

I think not, so why do I do it? The old belt & suspenders thing?
Satisfaction with the ordinary? Rather three average instead one good?
Hate of waste? Timidity? Sloth? Ignorance? Incompetence? What?

I realize that a bowl sitting untouched on a high shelf can hide or
compensate for much 'less than good' work and many won't know anyway,
but if any of you feel some guilt or are not entirely satsfied with a
slightly clunky bowl you've turned with caution, why did _you do it?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

SORRY - not flawless. Their concession to production work was the tiny X on
the bottom of stuff. They cut from rough sawn planks and didn't use chucks.

TomNie


"Tom Nie" wrote in message
...
Let me throw another log on the fire.

Couple sisters inherited their father's woodturning business outside and
just East of Gatlinburg, TN; Proffitt's Woodworking. Saw their work, among
others, at a gift shop and managed to find their location.

Why? Well, these were simple items but they were flawless. Probably $40
item the most expensive. But they were flawless and they were the ONLY
flawless items including the "art" galleries as best as I could see. I had
to meet the folks.

Their dad started them on "grapes" before he'd let them do other stuff.
Had to turn those little round devils and fasten them to a stick to make
"grapes". Pure, old-fashioned pride in what they do means they do them
FAST but well. When I mentioned some of the other 'artists' whose work I'd
seen the one lady just sorta rolled her eyes but wouldn't say a word.

Little building alongside the Hwy 321 with woods behind. Their dad had
managed to get a plate glass window from some old building and when he
built the shop he put it across the back wall and next to the rollup
garage door. His lathe faced the window and the deer, etc.

They still get excited seeing the deer.

TomNie


"Arch" wrote in message
...
I've made too many 'not quite as good as I could do' turnings. Not bad,
but not great. I guess the major reason is an abundance of caution to
not lose all the time and work I had already put into the piece, but is
giving up 'good' to assure 'something less than good' make any sense for
a hobby turner?

I think not, so why do I do it? The old belt & suspenders thing?
Satisfaction with the ordinary? Rather three average instead one good?
Hate of waste? Timidity? Sloth? Ignorance? Incompetence? What?

I realize that a bowl sitting untouched on a high shelf can hide or
compensate for much 'less than good' work and many won't know anyway,
but if any of you feel some guilt or are not entirely satsfied with a
slightly clunky bowl you've turned with caution, why did _you do it?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

"Arch" wrote in message
...


I realize that a bowl sitting untouched on a high shelf can hide or
compensate for much 'less than good' work and many won't know anyway,
but if any of you feel some guilt or are not entirely satsfied with a
slightly clunky bowl you've turned with caution, why did _you do it?


I have re-turned bowls which were not finished to my satisfaction. Too
yellow from varnish versus lacquer, for instance. Sometimes a piece that's
been out four or five times with no takers becomes a "first grab" with a bit
of extra turning. Not a lot of restyling available, but a bead, grooves or
a burn in the proper place makes me feel like it's a new piece.

I think there are too many tippy pieces out there for the sake of thin and
the old turners' tale that the bottom should be as thin as the sides to
prevent cracking. If you're going to flare it wide and taper it fast, best
to leave some extra thickness in the bottom to keep the apples from rolling
out. I prefer this to broad stance.

Tom Nie wrote:
SORRY - not flawless. Their concession to production work was the tiny X on
the bottom of stuff. They cut from rough sawn planks and didn't use chucks.

TomNie


All this reminds me. When I left Japan, my Mama-San bought me a
beautiful ceramic tea cup (mug). It had a deep notch cut in the rim of
the base. She explained that a century or so ago, this company's wares
so impressed the Emperor that they made an agreement that all their
perfect pieces would be sent to the Emperor. Over the years their skills
improved so that they consider most of their wares "perfect", so to make
a living they cut a notch in most of them and sell them.

Nice trademark. I think my cup cost about $30.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

The early worm gets the bird.





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Arch wrote:

Forgive me Robert, but your vase reminds me of one or two Southern
Female 'Magnolias' I have known. Nubile! Fragile! and if not handled

with care, Hostile! Expensive and sometimes hard to sell.

Put in that context..... AMEN brother!

Robert

but you cant just toss 'em in the fire though...

"Arch" wrote in message
...
Forgive me Robert, but your vase reminds me of one or two Southern
Female 'Magnolias' I have known. Nubile! Fragile! and if not handled
with care, Hostile! Expensive and sometimes hard to sell.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Wally wrote:

Arch, many years ago I made a promise to myself....that I would never,
ever, look at a piece that I was turning and say "that's good
enough"....instead I would continue working on it until I could say
"that's as good as I can do"

By taking that one last cut, you may end up losing a piece on a rare
occasion, but isn't that part of the game?

Part of mastery is knowning when the piece is done and when more work will
improve it. Watch some art students sometime if you get a chance--you'll
see that in many cases they have a very nice piece and take one more stroke
that starts diminishing it, and from there it's all downhill.

Wally

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:38:59 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Wally wrote:

Arch, many years ago I made a promise to myself....that I would never,
ever, look at a piece that I was turning and say "that's good
enough"....instead I would continue working on it until I could say
"that's as good as I can do"

By taking that one last cut, you may end up losing a piece on a rare
occasion, but isn't that part of the game?

Part of mastery is knowning when the piece is done and when more work will
improve it. Watch some art students sometime if you get a chance--you'll
see that in many cases they have a very nice piece and take one more stroke
that starts diminishing it, and from there it's all downhill.

Wally

Yep.. I've tried to stop my wife from "completing" a wood burning project many
times...
She does mostly people, and (IMHO) I think that they are best done simply and as
more of a caricature, unless it's a "portrait"...
She'll have something that I really think is great... and then she'll retrace a
few lines, shade an area or two, etc... and it just loses the first "result...

I think that a lot of people design or make something from instinct or feeling
and then complicate it with technique or self-critisism.. YMMV (and should!)


mac

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