Guys, I just got a couple of large box elder trees that blew down in the
latest storm. The reason they blew down was that they were rotted up the
heart. Only 1-3" of wood on the outside was solid. But when I cut the
trunks up, it had the most beautiful spalting and color you could imagine.
The problem is that the wood is too soft to turn.

Does anyone know of a method to harden the wood? A thin epoxy, or something
like that? Even a liquid plastic in a high pressure vessel? Any successes
out there at all? This stuff is absolutely beautiful, and it would pain me
to toss it out.

Thanks,
James Johnson

JRJohnson wrote:
Guys, I just got a couple of large box elder trees that blew down in the
latest storm. The reason they blew down was that they were rotted up the
heart. Only 1-3" of wood on the outside was solid. But when I cut the
trunks up, it had the most beautiful spalting and color you could imagine.
The problem is that the wood is too soft to turn.

Does anyone know of a method to harden the wood? A thin epoxy, or something
like that? Even a liquid plastic in a high pressure vessel? Any successes
out there at all? This stuff is absolutely beautiful, and it would pain me
to toss it out.

I have used acrylic floor polish with some success on moderately punky
wood. Future Acrylic Floor Finish, but I suspect most brands will work.

I rough turn if possible and then submerge it in a jar of the finish for
a day, then leave to dry.

There are two part epoxy wood restorers available, I think the company
is Smith & Co

--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/toolrest/

"Derek Andrews" wrote in message
...
JRJohnson wrote:
Guys, I just got a couple of large box elder trees that blew down in the
latest storm. The reason they blew down was that they were rotted up the
heart. Only 1-3" of wood on the outside was solid. But when I cut the
trunks up, it had the most beautiful spalting and color you could
imagine.
The problem is that the wood is too soft to turn.

Does anyone know of a method to harden the wood? A thin epoxy, or
something
like that? Even a liquid plastic in a high pressure vessel? Any
successes
out there at all? This stuff is absolutely beautiful, and it would pain
me
to toss it out.

I have used acrylic floor polish with some success on moderately punky
wood. Future Acrylic Floor Finish, but I suspect most brands will work.

I rough turn if possible and then submerge it in a jar of the finish for a
day, then leave to dry.

There are two part epoxy wood restorers available, I think the company is
Smith & Co

--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/toolrest/

=====I have used a liquid called Wood Hardener that seems to work. Dries
very quickly and doesn't penetrate very deeply, so I just turn until I run
out of the hardened area and brush on some more.

Leif

"Leif Thorvaldson" wrote in message
...

"Derek Andrews" wrote in
message
...
JRJohnson wrote:
Guys, I just got a couple of large box elder trees that blew down in
the
latest storm. The reason they blew down was that they were rotted up
the
heart. Only 1-3" of wood on the outside was solid. But when I cut the
trunks up, it had the most beautiful spalting and color you could
imagine.
The problem is that the wood is too soft to turn.

Does anyone know of a method to harden the wood? A thin epoxy, or
something
like that? Even a liquid plastic in a high pressure vessel? Any
successes
out there at all? This stuff is absolutely beautiful, and it would
pain
me
to toss it out.

I have used acrylic floor polish with some success on moderately punky
wood. Future Acrylic Floor Finish, but I suspect most brands will work.

I rough turn if possible and then submerge it in a jar of the finish for
a
day, then leave to dry.

There are two part epoxy wood restorers available, I think the company
is
Smith & Co

--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/toolrest/

=====I have used a liquid called Wood Hardener that seems to work. Dries
very quickly and doesn't penetrate very deeply, so I just turn until I run
out of the hardened area and brush on some more.

Leif

Unfortunately, this wood is so soft and punky that I cannot turn it. I
can tear chunks out of it with my bare hands. If it weren't so dabburned
beautiful, I would just toss it and not even consider turning it but......
James J

"JRJohnson" wrote in message
...

"Leif Thorvaldson" wrote in message
...

"Derek Andrews" wrote in
message
...
JRJohnson wrote:
Guys, I just got a couple of large box elder trees that blew down in
the
latest storm. The reason they blew down was that they were rotted up
the
heart. Only 1-3" of wood on the outside was solid. But when I cut
the
trunks up, it had the most beautiful spalting and color you could
imagine.
The problem is that the wood is too soft to turn.

Does anyone know of a method to harden the wood? A thin epoxy, or
something
like that? Even a liquid plastic in a high pressure vessel? Any
successes
out there at all? This stuff is absolutely beautiful, and it would
pain
me
to toss it out.

I have used acrylic floor polish with some success on moderately punky
wood. Future Acrylic Floor Finish, but I suspect most brands will work.

I rough turn if possible and then submerge it in a jar of the finish
for
a
day, then leave to dry.

There are two part epoxy wood restorers available, I think the company
is
Smith & Co

--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/toolrest/

=====I have used a liquid called Wood Hardener that seems to work.
Dries
very quickly and doesn't penetrate very deeply, so I just turn until I
run
out of the hardened area and brush on some more.

Leif

Unfortunately, this wood is so soft and punky that I cannot turn it. I
can tear chunks out of it with my bare hands. If it weren't so dabburned
beautiful, I would just toss it and not even consider turning it but......
James J

I had basically the same experience with cottonwood and birch, but managed
to get a box and a bowl out of the pieces. Maybe your wood is more advanced
in decomposition than mine was. Check out the following url:
http://www.minwax.com/products/woodmaint/hardener.cfm
Leif

I use CA glue for this purpose - it works well, and cost is reasonable when
you buy it by the pint or quart

"JRJohnson" wrote in message
...
Guys, I just got a couple of large box elder trees that blew down in the
latest storm. The reason they blew down was that they were rotted up the
heart. Only 1-3" of wood on the outside was solid. But when I cut the
trunks up, it had the most beautiful spalting and color you could imagine.
The problem is that the wood is too soft to turn.

Does anyone know of a method to harden the wood? A thin epoxy, or
something
like that? Even a liquid plastic in a high pressure vessel? Any
successes
out there at all? This stuff is absolutely beautiful, and it would pain
me
to toss it out.

Thanks,
James Johnson

"JRJohnson" wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, this wood is so soft and punky that I cannot turn it. I
can tear chunks out of it with my bare hands. If it weren't so dabburned
beautiful, I would just toss it and not even consider turning it but......
James J



Some wood is beyond turning. Sounds like yours may be. If you'd like to
hedge, take some and dry it to see how well it consolidates when not
waterlogged. If it's still crumbling, you'd best think of mulch or
embedding it in acrylic for keychains.

You have to have something to start with.

JR,

I've had good luck with a water thin epoxy from www.rotdoctor.com.
There is a similar product called Polyall 2000, but as I recall, I it
was only available in Canada. Maybe that's changed now, but you the Rot
Doctor product is the same I believe and it's available.

Art

JRJohnson wrote:

Guys, I just got a couple of large box elder trees that blew down in the
latest storm. The reason they blew down was that they were rotted up the
heart. Only 1-3" of wood on the outside was solid. But when I cut the
trunks up, it had the most beautiful spalting and color you could imagine.
The problem is that the wood is too soft to turn.

Does anyone know of a method to harden the wood? A thin epoxy, or something
like that? Even a liquid plastic in a high pressure vessel? Any successes
out there at all? This stuff is absolutely beautiful, and it would pain me
to toss it out.

Thanks,
James Johnson

"Bart V" wrote in message
...
Polyall 2000
Any idea how hard this stuff makes the wood and whether it
will penetrate into tight tight grained wood? I'd be trying it to
harden the top of my banjo bridges (http://haruteq.com/BR-08.htm), in
particular I'd like to do this for the teak ones I make. As is, the
strings excert an enormous pressure (5,000~8,000 psi) on it and with
the continous tuning the strings keep sawing into the wood. Even as
hard as teak is, this sawing action eventually slices thru teak and
the only way to stop it is by capping the teak with ebony. By the way,
beech seems to handle these stresses a lot better.
Maybe off topic but then again, I make them bridges out of wood pieces
left over from turning
Bart.

How hard is urethane resin? About as hard as what it's adhered to, I would
say. It's the weakest link business, all over again. If I put a piece to
foil over a piece of wood, the dent resistance is still pretty much that of
the wood.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fp...tr113/ch04.pdf

Seems to indicate that sweet birch might be even better than Beech for your
application. The Locusts would be an excellent choice. Believe Osage
Orange - "Bois D'Arc" or "Bodark" would be even better. More attractive,
certainly.

"Derek Andrews" wrote: (clip) There are two part epoxy wood restorers
available, I think the company is Smith & Co
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes. The product is called "Clear Penetrting Epoxy Sealer," and I have seen
it used successfully on some pretty punky wood. It think the only problem
you would have is that if the wood is REALLY porous, the filler + wood won't
look like wood. I'd give it a try, though, since the wood is so attractive.
(Smith and Company has a website.)

this is another potential application for CA glue - might be worth a test -
the glue is quite hard and brittle, so putting a layer across the top of the
bridge might well harden up the wood without degrading the sound qualities -
at least it's worth a try. Of coruse you can always sell replacement
bridges and figure that they are a wear item like the strings


"Bart V" wrote in message
...
Seems to indicate that sweet birch might be even better than Beech for
your
application. The Locusts would be an excellent choice. Believe Osage
Orange - "Bois D'Arc" or "Bodark" would be even better. More attractive,
certainly
Thanks for the tips. There's special considerations here
though, the various woods have a huge effect on the [banjo's] tone,
sound clarity, volume etc.
Bart.
-
Check my most up to date email address at:
www.haruteq.com/contact.htm
awesome banjo bridges, tabs, stained glass:
www.haruteq.com

**may your moments of need be met by moments of compassion**

In article
,
"Leo Lichtman" wrote:

"Derek Andrews" wrote: (clip) There are two part epoxy wood restorers
available, I think the company is Smith & Co
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes. The product is called "Clear Penetrting Epoxy Sealer," and I have seen
it used successfully on some pretty punky wood. It think the only problem
you would have is that if the wood is REALLY porous, the filler + wood won't
look like wood. I'd give it a try, though, since the wood is so attractive.
(Smith and Company has a website.)

I have used (in no particular order or preference)
Polyall 2000
50/50 white glue and water mix
PC-Petrifier
LDD


Polyall 2000
Bloody expensive, works OK on punky wood that doesn't crumble to the
touch
50/50 white glue and water. Soaked for 24 hours (total immersion) dried
for a month turned and sanded OK. Didn't take stains was OK with shellac
finish.
PC-Petrifier. A lot cheaper than Polyall. I suspect it is nothing more
than diluted white glue with additives. Works the same
LDD
Funny enough I started using LDD because of a comment on Ron Kent's site
(the original LDD man go he http://www.ronkent.com/RKhome.html )
where he talks about spalting and Norfolk Pine. I have to say the LDD
did make punky wood turnable BUT finishing is a nightmare. I resort to
multiple rinses in hot running water and alternate with the microwave
until there is no more foaming. The LDD will penetrate a 12"dia. punky
log 100% in a weeks soak.
So there you have a choice of 4 take your pick and try one

--
Remove no & spam to email

meet me at:
http://peterhyde.bravehost.com/

JRJohnson wrote:
: Guys, I just got a couple of large box elder trees that blew down in the
: latest storm. The reason they blew down was that they were rotted up the
: heart. Only 1-3" of wood on the outside was solid. But when I cut the
: trunks up, it had the most beautiful spalting and color you could imagine.
: The problem is that the wood is too soft to turn.

: Does anyone know of a method to harden the wood? A thin epoxy, or something
: like that?


Yup -- check out

http://www.rotdoctor.com

That's what you're looking for.

-- Andy Barss

"Andrew Barss" wrote in message
...
JRJohnson wrote:
: Guys, I just got a couple of large box elder trees that blew down in the
: latest storm. The reason they blew down was that they were rotted up
the
: heart. Only 1-3" of wood on the outside was solid. But when I cut the
: trunks up, it had the most beautiful spalting and color you could
imagine.
: The problem is that the wood is too soft to turn.

: Does anyone know of a method to harden the wood? A thin epoxy, or
something
: like that?


Yup -- check out

http://www.rotdoctor.com

That's what you're looking for.

-- Andy Barss

After looking at the rotdoctor site, it seems worth a try. Thanks to all
for their input.

Incidentally, I have used CA to harden soft spots. I also have used 1 lb
shellac, lacquer based sanding sealer cut 50%, all of which works, but not
to the degree that I am looking for. Again, thanks for the help.

Best regards, James Johnson

In article ,
"JRJohnson" wrote:

Unfortunately, this wood is so soft and punky that I cannot turn it. I
can tear chunks out of it with my bare hands. If it weren't so dabburned
beautiful, I would just toss it and not even consider turning it but......
James J

There's a company in Oregon called Specialty Polymers that has developed
a process they call WoodSure - impregnating wood with an acrylic
polymer. I've heard two demos by one of the lead research guys working
for the company as well as seeing and hearing results of local turners
who have taken advantage of the process. You can take the punky-est wood
and it will harden it up through and through - 100% penetration. The
process removes all moisture and replaces it with acrylic - done under
vacuum and pressure in a sealed chamber. You can choose among a number
of colors or natural.

They charge by the pound as I recall and the guy to contact is Bob
McSween, , 800-770-7523.

The following was printed in our chapter newsletter (editor Fred Kline):
Many thanks to our March demonstrator Bob McSween from Woodsure
in Woodburn, Bob captivated us all with some very beautiful pieces of
wood as well as many turned specimens of wood that has been stabilized
and sometimes colored with acrylic. This unique process will enable us
to take an otherwise useless piece of punky wood and turn it into a one
of a kind masterpiece, this process opens the door to many possibilities
to woodturning or just woodworking in general. Hopefully by now many
of you have taken Bob up on his generous offer to treat a few pieces free of
charge to the club members. Well be looking to future show & tells for some
of your completed pieces.

I had three chunks done but haven't finished any as yet. Two are some
spalted birch that was tearing out something awful when attempting to
make some Osolnik style candlesticks. When I got the impregnated pieces
back I rough turned them just to see what it was like - very nice and
solid - though they outgas the polymer smell for about 30 days.

Here's a link to someone who appears to be marketing WoodSure but I'm
not familiar with them though the wood samples and description look and
sound like what Bob showed and said:
http://tkandj.com/id3.html

Here's the Specialty Polymers site:
http://www.specpoly.com/index.html

As was mentioned at the two demos and in subsequent conversations - it's
not for all woods - due to the cost to process - but when you have
something really special that you'd really like to use then it's a great
solution.

James,

Not every piece of wood has to end up on a lathe. You are a creative
person. I know you can make something worthy of the wood just as it is.

Clay Foster

JRJohnson wrote:
Guys, I just got a couple of large box elder trees that blew down in the
latest storm. The reason they blew down was that they were rotted up the
heart. Only 1-3" of wood on the outside was solid. But when I cut the
trunks up, it had the most beautiful spalting and color you could imagine.
The problem is that the wood is too soft to turn.

Does anyone know of a method to harden the wood? A thin epoxy, or something
like that? Even a liquid plastic in a high pressure vessel? Any successes
out there at all? This stuff is absolutely beautiful, and it would pain me
to toss it out.

Thanks,
James Johnson

wrote in message
oups.com...

James,

Not every piece of wood has to end up on a lathe. You are a creative
person. I know you can make something worthy of the wood just as it is.

Clay Foster

Hi, Clay!!! Long time no see, no talk to. But in my case, if I can't turn
it,
I don't even burn it (any longer--moved up town & don't heat with wood
any more). But I think that the response by Owen provides the answer.
When I get a little more free time, I will see what it will cost to
stabilize a
couple peices of the wood.

Thanks to all,
James Johnson


JRJohnson wrote:
Guys, I just got a couple of large box elder trees that blew down in the
latest storm. The reason they blew down was that they were rotted up
the
heart. Only 1-3" of wood on the outside was solid. But when I cut the
trunks up, it had the most beautiful spalting and color you could
imagine.
The problem is that the wood is too soft to turn.

Does anyone know of a method to harden the wood? A thin epoxy, or
something
like that? Even a liquid plastic in a high pressure vessel? Any
successes
out there at all? This stuff is absolutely beautiful, and it would pain
me
to toss it out.

Thanks,
James Johnson

In article , jjohnson17
@stx.rr.com says...

wrote in message
oups.com...

James,

Not every piece of wood has to end up on a lathe. You are a creative
person. I know you can make something worthy of the wood just as it is.

Clay Foster

Hi, Clay!!! Long time no see, no talk to. But in my case, if I can't turn
it,
I don't even burn it (any longer--moved up town & don't heat with wood
any more). But I think that the response by Owen provides the answer.
When I get a little more free time, I will see what it will cost to
stabilize a
couple peices of the wood.

Thanks to all,
James Johnson


JRJohnson wrote:
Guys, I just got a couple of large box elder trees that blew down in the
latest storm. The reason they blew down was that they were rotted up
the
heart. Only 1-3" of wood on the outside was solid. But when I cut the
trunks up, it had the most beautiful spalting and color you could
imagine.
The problem is that the wood is too soft to turn.

Does anyone know of a method to harden the wood? A thin epoxy, or
something
like that? Even a liquid plastic in a high pressure vessel? Any
successes
out there at all? This stuff is absolutely beautiful, and it would pain
me
to toss it out.

Thanks,
James Johnson




James,

Give WSSI (http://www.stabilizedwood.com/wssi.shtml) in eastern Iowa a
shot at your stabilization work. Mike Luddeman is a good guy.

All the best,

Michael Mastin
Curly Woods
McKinney, TX
http://www.curlywoods.com
(469)742-0097
Toll-Free: 866.Mr.Woods (866-679-6637)

Michael, I e-mailed Mike Luddeman and he replied with the information that
the wood had to be dry. Since it is dripping wet right now, it will be a
while before I can do anything about stabilizing it.

Thanks,
James Johnson

"Curly Woods" wrote in message
...
In article , jjohnson17
@stx.rr.com says...

wrote in message
oups.com...

James,

Not every piece of wood has to end up on a lathe. You are a creative
person. I know you can make something worthy of the wood just as it
is.

Clay Foster

Hi, Clay!!! Long time no see, no talk to. But in my case, if I can't
turn
it,
I don't even burn it (any longer--moved up town & don't heat with wood
any more). But I think that the response by Owen provides the answer.
When I get a little more free time, I will see what it will cost to
stabilize a
couple peices of the wood.

Thanks to all,
James Johnson


JRJohnson wrote:
Guys, I just got a couple of large box elder trees that blew down in
the
latest storm. The reason they blew down was that they were rotted
up
the
heart. Only 1-3" of wood on the outside was solid. But when I cut
the
trunks up, it had the most beautiful spalting and color you could
imagine.
The problem is that the wood is too soft to turn.

Does anyone know of a method to harden the wood? A thin epoxy, or
something
like that? Even a liquid plastic in a high pressure vessel? Any
successes
out there at all? This stuff is absolutely beautiful, and it would
pain
me
to toss it out.

Thanks,
James Johnson




James,

Give WSSI (http://www.stabilizedwood.com/wssi.shtml) in eastern Iowa a
shot at your stabilization work. Mike Luddeman is a good guy.

All the best,

Michael Mastin
Curly Woods
McKinney, TX
http://www.curlywoods.com
(469)742-0097
Toll-Free: 866.Mr.Woods (866-679-6637)