Two winters with no loft insulation is quite enough and I have been
costing the various options, which turn out to be

Wool batts
Conductivity 0.038 W/mK
£11.30 /sqm

Flax rolls
Conductivity 0.037 W/mK
£15.00 /sqm

Isowool rolls (glass fibre)
Conductivity 0.04 W/mK
£1.70 /sqm

Even if VAT needs to be added to the glass fibre option it still looks
loads cheaper than either of the others so I can see why the
eco-products haven't hit the mass market yet. I'd be prepared to pay a
bit more for them, but an order of magnitude more sticks in my gullet

Anyhow whats eco-unfriendly about glass fibre. Its only sand, isn't
it?

Anna


~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

In article , "Anna Kettle"
says...
snip
Anyhow whats eco-unfriendly about glass fibre. Its only sand, isn't
it?

The energy required to produce it?

Anna Kettle wrote:

Even if VAT needs to be added to the glass fibre option it still looks
loads cheaper than either of the others so I can see why the
eco-products haven't hit the mass market yet. I'd be prepared to pay a
bit more for them, but an order of magnitude more sticks in my gullet

You could use Rockwool, it's (just) a little less unpleasant than
glass fibre. They've a website at http:www.rockwool.co.uk with
some "environmental" info. What about insect larvae etc. with
"eco-products"?

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:16:11 GMT, Anna Kettle wrote:



Even if VAT needs to be added to the glass fibre option it still looks
loads cheaper than either of the others so I can see why the
eco-products haven't hit the mass market yet. I'd be prepared to pay a
bit more for them, but an order of magnitude more sticks in my gullet

We got a roofing quote for a client a few weeks ago and I noticed that the
roofer is automatically quoting for wool based insulation now.
Unfortunately the quote has been posted off since we would have no further
involvement and so I didn't keep a copy! But...this would suggest that it
is competively priced here in France. I'll investigate and post back if I
find anything worthwhile. Whether it would be worth a trip to fetch it is
another matter :-)



--
Holly, in France
Holiday home in Dordogne
http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:35:13 +0100, Chris Bacon
wrote:

You could use Rockwool, it's (just) a little less unpleasant than
glass fibre.

I thought rockwool was for stopping sound transmission rather than
heat transmission

What about insect larvae etc. with "eco-products"?

Thats dealt with. They lace it with something or other

Anna


~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 12:52:25 +0100, Rob Morley
wrote:

Anyhow whats eco-unfriendly about glass fibre. Its only sand, isn't
it?

The energy required to produce it?

Spose so. I know nothing about the processes requried to turn sand
into glass. It sounds a bit unlikely though so maybe it takes lots of
energy

Anna


~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:41:59 +0100, Holly in France
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:16:11 GMT, Anna Kettle wrote:



Even if VAT needs to be added to the glass fibre option it still looks
loads cheaper than either of the others so I can see why the
eco-products haven't hit the mass market yet. I'd be prepared to pay a
bit more for them, but an order of magnitude more sticks in my gullet

We got a roofing quote for a client a few weeks ago and I noticed that the
roofer is automatically quoting for wool based insulation now.

Yes wool batt insulation originated in France. There is a producer
here in England now and one would hope that their prices are
competitive with importing from France

Unfortunately the quote has been posted off since we would have no further
involvement and so I didn't keep a copy! But...this would suggest that it
is competively priced here in France. I'll investigate and post back if I
find anything worthwhile. Whether it would be worth a trip to fetch it is
another matter :-)

I haven't spoken to the grant people yet but what I am hoping is that
cos the government is putting lots of money into energy saving so its
possible that they subsidise the cost of wool batts. Thats what I'm
hoping anyway cos fleece has no value now. Isn't it shocking that
farmers have to burn fleeces

For hundreds of years, England was rich from selling wool to the rest
of the western world

Anna


~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

Anna Kettle wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:

You could use Rockwool, it's (just) a little less unpleasant than
glass fibre.

I thought rockwool was for stopping sound transmission rather than
heat transmission

Erm, no. It's an alternative to glass, looks similar, usu. brown in
colour, slightly less irritating to handle. See the website.

What about insect larvae etc. with "eco-products"?

Thats dealt with. They lace it with something or other

Hmm. More poison in the roof.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:41:59 +0100, Holly in France
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:16:11 GMT, Anna Kettle wrote:



Even if VAT needs to be added to the glass fibre option it still looks
loads cheaper than either of the others so I can see why the
eco-products haven't hit the mass market yet. I'd be prepared to pay a
bit more for them, but an order of magnitude more sticks in my gullet

We got a roofing quote for a client a few weeks ago and I noticed that the
roofer is automatically quoting for wool based insulation now.
Unfortunately the quote has been posted off since we would have no further
involvement and so I didn't keep a copy! But...this would suggest that it
is competively priced here in France. I'll investigate and post back if I
find anything worthwhile. Whether it would be worth a trip to fetch it is
another matter :-)

One can think of a number of other reasons to visit your part of the
world, Holly.

Most are to do with eating and drinking. The people are OK as well.
:-)






--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Holly in France wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:16:11 GMT, Anna Kettle wrote:



Even if VAT needs to be added to the glass fibre option it still looks
loads cheaper than either of the others so I can see why the
eco-products haven't hit the mass market yet. I'd be prepared to pay a
bit more for them, but an order of magnitude more sticks in my gullet

We got a roofing quote for a client a few weeks ago and I noticed that the
roofer is automatically quoting for wool based insulation now.
Unfortunately the quote has been posted off since we would have no further
involvement and so I didn't keep a copy! But...this would suggest that it
is competively priced here in France. I'll investigate and post back if I

The cynical might also suggest that a 20% markup on a wool insulation
is much better than a 20% markup on glass-fiber.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:16:11 GMT, (Anna Kettle)
wrote:

Two winters with no loft insulation is quite enough and I have been
costing the various options, which turn out to be

Wool batts
Conductivity 0.038 W/mK
£11.30 /sqm

Flax rolls
Conductivity 0.037 W/mK
£15.00 /sqm

Isowool rolls (glass fibre)
Conductivity 0.04 W/mK
£1.70 /sqm

Even if VAT needs to be added to the glass fibre option it still looks
loads cheaper than either of the others so I can see why the
eco-products haven't hit the mass market yet. I'd be prepared to pay a
bit more for them, but an order of magnitude more sticks in my gullet

Anyhow whats eco-unfriendly about glass fibre. Its only sand, isn't
it?

Anna


I used the Pink Panther stuff after the mess clearing the old style
stuff out.

Comes in nice compacted pink rolls, very few stray fibres to get all
over you and make your skin nice and itchy.

Costs more than the normal stuff but worth it for the ease of use. :-)

Mark S.

In message , Anna Kettle
writes
Two winters with no loft insulation is quite enough and I have been
costing the various options, which turn out to be

Wool batts

Flax rolls
Isowool rolls (glass fibre)

There is also Warmcel, which is a loose fill type insulation, made from
recycled newspaper AIUI

No experience.

http://naturalbuildingproductscouk.n...l100_insert.pd
f

http://naturalbuildingproductscouk.ntitemp.com/pdfs/warmcel_100.pdf


According to the price on this place:

http://www.womersleys.co.uk/acatalog/natural_insulation.html

it's about GBP4/m^2 at 100mm thick


Even if VAT needs to be added to the glass fibre option it still looks
loads cheaper than either of the others so I can see why the
eco-products haven't hit the mass market yet. I'd be prepared to pay a
bit more for them, but an order of magnitude more sticks in my gullet

Anyhow whats eco-unfriendly about glass fibre. Its only sand, isn't
it?

As others have said, the energy consumption for one. And sand has to
come from somewhere - either big hole in the ground, or from the sea

I hate glassfibre or rockwool, not just installing it, but I find I'm
very susceptible to irritation from it, so just going into a loft with
it in starts me itching, and I soon get rash on arms, neck etc. The
stuff encased in thin plastic sheeting is an improvement in this aspect,
but still not brilliant for me.
--
Chris French, Leeds

"Anna Kettle" wrote in message
...

Yes wool batt insulation originated in France. There is a producer
here in England now and one would hope that their prices are
competitive with importing from France

Unfortunately the quote has been posted off since we would have no
further
involvement and so I didn't keep a copy! But...this would suggest that it
is competively priced here in France. I'll investigate and post back if I
find anything worthwhile. Whether it would be worth a trip to fetch it is
another matter :-)

I haven't spoken to the grant people yet but what I am hoping is that
cos the government is putting lots of money into energy saving so its
possible that they subsidise the cost of wool batts. Thats what I'm
hoping anyway cos fleece has no value now. Isn't it shocking that
farmers have to burn fleeces

All ours go for insulation nowadays. The fleeces were never that good for
wool or sheepskin clothing anyway so the prices fetched are quite similar.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 23:37:03 +0100, "Mike" wrote:


"Anna Kettle" wrote in message
...

Yes wool batt insulation originated in France. There is a producer
here in England now and one would hope that their prices are
competitive with importing from France

Unfortunately the quote has been posted off since we would have no
further
involvement and so I didn't keep a copy! But...this would suggest that it
is competively priced here in France. I'll investigate and post back if I
find anything worthwhile. Whether it would be worth a trip to fetch it is
another matter :-)

I haven't spoken to the grant people yet but what I am hoping is that
cos the government is putting lots of money into energy saving so its
possible that they subsidise the cost of wool batts. Thats what I'm
hoping anyway cos fleece has no value now. Isn't it shocking that
farmers have to burn fleeces

All ours go for insulation nowadays. The fleeces were never that good for
wool or sheepskin clothing anyway so the prices fetched are quite similar.

Do you know why? English wool used to be highly prized and I always
assumed it was something to do with the climate rather than the sheep
itself cos otherwise why didn't them foreigners sheepnap some of ours
and set up in competition?

Are you unusual in selling it for insulation or has the trade expanded
sufficiently to take most of the nation's fleeces?

Anna


~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:21:31 +0100, Mark S.
wrote:

I used the Pink Panther stuff after the mess clearing the old style
stuff out.

Comes in nice compacted pink rolls, very few stray fibres to get all
over you and make your skin nice and itchy.

Costs more than the normal stuff but worth it for the ease of use. :-)

I will check that out but if I get a grant then someone else puts it
in place so the itchiness is not a big problem for me

Anna


~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 23:14:33 +0100, chris French
wrote:

There is also Warmcel, which is a loose fill type insulation, made from
recycled newspaper AIUI

I discounted that one cos I live in a very old house and one of these
days I will have to do some ceiling repairs from above and I want
something that I can remove easily

I hate glassfibre or rockwool, not just installing it, but I find I'm
very susceptible to irritation from it

Luckily I'm not particularly susceptible. I'd still prefer to use wool
though

Anna

PS Hope the house move goes OK. Very stressful time


~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repairs
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

"Anna Kettle" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 23:37:03 +0100, "Mike" wrote:
All ours go for insulation nowadays. The fleeces were never that good
for
wool or sheepskin clothing anyway so the prices fetched are quite
similar.

Do you know why? English wool used to be highly prized and I always
assumed it was something to do with the climate rather than the sheep
itself cos otherwise why didn't them foreigners sheepnap some of ours
and set up in competition?

Are you unusual in selling it for insulation or has the trade expanded
sufficiently to take most of the nation's fleeces?

I think it's because the demand for UK wool isn't there anymore plus hill
sheep are never going to have the best fleeces for spinning wool from. But
the stuff is naturally so dense (you can see them shiver when they lose it
:-) that it's great for insulating houses.

In message , Anna Kettle
writes

PS Hope the house move goes OK. Very stressful time

Getting there - after what seems like a month of nothing much really
happening half the time, finally, bumpf and contracts etc. should be
going out this week this week. Just need to push for quick completion
date.

Interested in the insulation discussion as we will need to up ours in
the new house
--
Chris French, Leeds

chris French wrote:

In message , Anna Kettle
writes


PS Hope the house move goes OK. Very stressful time

Getting there - after what seems like a month of nothing much really
happening half the time, finally, bumpf and contracts etc. should be
going out this week this week. Just need to push for quick completion
date.

Interested in the insulation discussion as we will need to up ours in
the new house

Per unit insulation rockwool is the cheapest, but needs good depth.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:32:47 GMT, Anna Kettle wrote:




Yes wool batt insulation originated in France. There is a producer
here in England now and one would hope that their prices are
competitive with importing from France

Sorry to be so long replying to this. Have done a bit of research into
prices here, which was a good idea anyway since my sister is likely to be
interested later in the year. Found lots of sites about DIY wool
insulation, this one is quite detailed but all in French - has some
pictures too though :-)

http://www.eco-bio.info/isolation.html

Other prices as follows, with rough transations from

http://www.eco-logis.com/isolat.htm


Hemp (chanvre) panels
panels of 0,625 x 1,20 m
price inc VAT per sq metre
panels 50 mm thick 10.20 ¤ 7,5 Euros
panels 80 mm thick 16.30 ¤ 9 Euros

This following refers to hemp insulation on a roll, comes in 10m rolls:

EPAISSEUR PRIX TTC / m²
thickness price incl vat/sq m
50 mm 10,20 7,5 Euros
80 mm 20,20 9 Euros



Wool insulation on rolls
EPAISSEUR PRIX TTC / m²
thickness price incl VAT/sq m
30 à 40 mm - Longueur 15 mètres 6 Euros
60 à 80 mm - Longueur 10 mètres 9 Euros

Hope you can make some sense of that.


I haven't spoken to the grant people yet but what I am hoping is that
cos the government is putting lots of money into energy saving so its
possible that they subsidise the cost of wool batts. Thats what I'm
hoping anyway cos fleece has no value now. Isn't it shocking that
farmers have to burn fleeces

Didn't know that, yes, it is indeed shocking, and sad. Perhaps you could
find a friendly farmer and go the DIY route?! No grant of course, and more
work, probably wouldn't be worthwhile....

More info on the way in the post and from the local BM, will post back if
prices are very different.



--
Holly, in France
Holiday home in Dordogne
http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr

"Holly in France" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:32:47 GMT, Anna Kettle wrote:

Other prices as follows, with rough transations from

http://www.eco-logis.com/isolat.htm


Wool insulation on rolls
EPAISSEUR PRIX TTC / m²
thickness price incl VAT/sq m
30 à 40 mm - Longueur 15 mètres 6 Euros
60 à 80 mm - Longueur 10 mètres 9 Euros

Hope you can make some sense of that.

For reference it leaves the sheep at about 60mm thick at about £2/sq m.



Perhaps you could
find a friendly farmer and go the DIY route?! No grant of course, and more
work, probably wouldn't be worthwhile....

Lots of hassle to clean the fleece but most sheep farmers will sell you them
if you come at the right time.