"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:58:01 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"No Spam" wrote in message
. ..
T i m wrote:

It could still be YOUR problem if they are high volume water users and
you want to sell?

Precisely.

Also if everyone was metered it wouldn't be a problem but all partial
metering does is drive up costs for people still on the "rateable
value" system.

No, it makes people aware of what they're using and might make them more
responsible consumers,

You think? These are the same folk who wash the car / water the
gardens / flush a full 2 gallons every time even though there is a
drought on. They also have all the filament / halogen lights on all
the time .. because they can afford it. On top of that they don't
recycle "we don't get paid to to it" and replace the TV / kitchen /
car at regular intervals to stay in fashion (creating more waste).
(They are easily spotted by the empty 50" Plasma TV box on the
pavement by the dustbin, not flat packed and put with the cardboard)

There are people like that but if they don't count any cost to themselves or
anyone else they're not likely to even look at their water bills.

I'd hope that if they had to pay by the unit some might think twice about
the need to have a sparkling car, about collecting roof water for the garden
and somehow to restrict their flush flow.

It's not just everyone who can afford it who squanders money though ...


in which case there won't be the same demands on the
water companies.

True, we should all pay for what we use .. but while they can get away
with it ... ?

That's another argument for universal water metering.

People in drought ridden countries don't pay high water rates.

Because they don't have any water?

Quite. They don't feel the need to wash cars, water gardens, fill paddling
pools, flush lavatories - especially all done with purified drinking water.

Mary

"T i m" wrote in message
...



BUT, regardless of what you do after one year, the next occupant of
the property is lumbered with metered water.

which is fine IMO, since our bills even with 2 young kids now are lower
than the unmetered neighbours.

But with one older 'kid' and a low rateable value I don't think our
bill would be less and I believe the waste costs stay the same?

Yes, but as part of an integrated awareness exercise it might make people
think more about that too. You have to start somewhere, we've had it too
good for too long.

Mary

T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 21:16:51 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


See, reading other replies .. they are *somtimes* in a hole in the
road ner ner ne ner ner. And don't forget it's easier for them to
dig the roads up daun Sauf cos they aren't cobbled ...

As far as I know they are at the consumer's end of the rising main. Well,
they are in God's Own County.

London? .. I downt fink so ...

Is London a county? To me it's certainly Godless.

Sadly, there are few cobbled streets here these days. The only setts I
ever
see are those laid at great expense in their turning circles by people
with
more money than sense. The bit of unadopted Victorian road at the bottom
of
our street was cobbled until the then Labour Lord Mayor had his
installation
ceremony at the church there. To avoid the noble body in the expenisve RR
being jogged the surface was cushioned with wall to wall tarmac.

I thought that was the whole point of Range Rovers .. off road work
s******?

No dear, a bit more upmarket than an upgraded agricultural cart for our Lord
Mayor. Up here a RR is a Rolls Royce, a RoRo, a Roller, it's a big posh car.
Used to be black with the coat of arms on it and a little flag when the LM
was in residence. Registration U1. Now it's something more lowly but still
not a 4X4.

Recently they installed 'pillows' as a traffic calming thingy. I pointed
out
to the engineer that if they stripped the tarmac at the bottom that would
calm traffic, she said oh they couldn't do that, it would damage cars. I
said only if they were doing more than 20mph - the aim (which of course
isn't enforced). She said that no-one would keep to 20mph.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhh hhhh ..........

I know the feeling Mary .. like you don't need to bother about speed
cameras if you are in a stolen car ...

There aren't any cameras and not all the cars are stolen. In fact the
majority in our street are driven by state employees. They're just as
irresponsible as the twoc-ers.

WHERE'S MY PRESCRIPTION?

Top shelf, in the tupperware box .. ?

er - no Tupperware boxes here.

Thinks - does he keep his prescription in a plastic box? How odd. Must be a
s**th*rn custom ...


Erm .. because all the others talk sense *most* of the time ... ?

Oh. I hadn't noticed ... Not a good enough excuse anyway. You'll have to
get
a note from your mum.

Doh kicks the ground .. ok .. mumble ;-(

I'm waiting arms folded

ducks and runs away zig zagging from the longbow arrows

That's no defence. A hail would get you with no problems :-)

Think Agincourt.

Bit before my time Mary but I'll take your word for it ..

note to self: apparently they don't teach them history down there ...

did you
provide them with the hog roast and honey sarnies (captive audience
and all that)?

Not my style dear boy.

Save water - drink wine.

Mary

..

Quite. They don't feel the need to wash cars, water gardens, fill paddling
pools, flush lavatories - especially all done with purified drinking
water.

Mary

Normally I find myself agreeing with what you say, Mary. For once I don't
think I do. Purifying water does not so far I know use a lot of energy.
Bacteria do all the work. The energy is only needed to turn the spray bars
and do some pumping. I think that water is so central and essential that it
should be sold as cheaply as possible without profit. I was on a Chamber of
Commerce commitee when the whole shebang was being privatised. There were
only two of us who had doubts about it. I could not see what benefit there
was. If profits have to be distributed then prices would go up. Efficiency
in private companies is often poor. Councils generally ran water plants
well.

As so it has come to pass. We are now made to feel bad about watering our
gardens, giving our kids a bit of fun in the summer and *flushing the bog*.
Oh tempera, oh mores!

Just as with rail, water should be nationalised. The whole privatisation
idea is a disaster and this lot of industrial lap-dogs are worse than the
Tories. At least the Tories could smell a rat from their mates and knew that
they were only doing it to make a buck. This lot of preachers don't knwo
their a**es from their apices.

What's needed is to stop wasting water. It should be recycled through
multiple purifiers rather than piped down to the sea and thrown away. Yes,
we are short of rain in some parts of this country but by re-use we could
all have all we wanted.

I was interested by the comment about meters and resale. Meters are yet
another family-unfriendly device. I won't have one because I have a large
family-type house and don't want to put people off with a meter. I chuckle
when I hear people congratulating themselves on the savings they've made.
Just wait to see what impact there will be on the price of the house.

That's it. Rant over!

Peter Scott

In message , No Spam
writes
T i m wrote:

It could still be YOUR problem if they are high volume water users and
you want to sell?

Precisely.

No one looking at our house to buy even asked about he water supply
charging.


Also if everyone was metered it wouldn't be a problem but all partial
metering does is drive up costs for people still on the "rateable
value" system.

So? if those on the old system don't like it they can easily change
--
Chris French, Leeds

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:13:38 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


Is London a county?

Spose not .. it's called 'London Village' (by some) now .. ?

To me it's certainly Godless.

Well it is expensive down here .. "Jesus saves" .. not on my money he
wouldn't ..

I thought that was the whole point of Range Rovers .. off road work
s******?

No dear, a bit more upmarket than an upgraded agricultural cart for our Lord
Mayor. Up here a RR is a Rolls Royce, a RoRo, a Roller, it's a big posh car.

Oh ... now I understand Mary .. giggles

Used to be black with the coat of arms on it and a little flag when the LM
was in residence. Registration U1. Now it's something more lowly but still
not a 4X4.

Spose not ..you hardly need a 4x4 for red carpet .. even over cobbles
?


There aren't any cameras

Youfes nicked them all?

and not all the cars are stolen.

Ok, maybe not *all* ...

In fact the
majority in our street are driven by state employees. They're just as
irresponsible as the twoc-ers.

Ah ..


er - no Tupperware boxes here.

Thinks - does he keep his prescription in a plastic box? How odd. Must be a
s**th*rn custom ...

No, it's because I don't happen to have any spare goats bladders to
keep mine in so use tupperware (you get it delivered to the door round
here)? I think tupperware is superior to your goats bladder for
keeping drugs fresh .. and in hindsight could explain some of your
'problems' taking bad medicine .. it could explain some of your
symtoms .. ?


I'm waiting arms folded

"Cor, look over there!" runs away


note to self: apparently they don't teach them history down there ...

History is past, finished, over .. down sauf we look to the future and
therefore now enjoy such things as mains electricity and plumbed in
toilets (not a 'long drop'). ;-)


Save water - drink wine.

Never been much of a wine drinker and have never drunk spirits ..
neither are things we have in the house and wouldn't think of buying.
If we ever get given drink (as a 'thank you' for doing stuff) we
normally give it away?

I did brew my own beer and wine (do you 'brew' wine?) but found myself
drinking the wine by the pint then falling over .. ;-(

All the best ..

T i m

No Spam wrote:
Of course if capital expenditure can be
reduced or deferred by everyone moving to metered supplies then
everyone benefits - until then metered customers (usually) pay less
and "rateable value" customers subsidise them.


This is cloud cuckoo land. It should read "some rateable value
customers support them, some metered customers get screwed"! The water
companies inherited no debt and released large amounts of capital back
to their shareholders, then went and borrowed money to operate with,
thereby incurring borrowing (increased operating) costs. They still paid
(and pay) ridiculously high dividends to shareholders, compared to the
market average. The water companies now want to increase their capital
expenditure without costing their shareholders a penny. ie, there is no
rights issue to raise risk capital, instead the prices are being
increased to generate cash for investment and to repay the unnecessary
loans which they incurred in the first place. It is now a zero risk
business and needs financial controls with teeth. Ofwat are clearly
incompetent, if we can see the trees, they should be able to. In any
other business, competition and regulation would reduce the prices
(except in the UK and the EU!). The objectives should be to obtain
capital, increase the volume sold, compete and to efficiently generate a
return for the shareholders. I am opposed to metered water, I believe
that most consumers are reasonably responsible and don't waste water. I
am appalled at the variation in water costs between areas (Cornwall etc)
and believe that the way in which the system operates is grossly unfair
to many young low income families.

If someone wishes to do the sums, here's what it costs in a Chicago suburb.

http://www.hanoverparkillinois.org/S...SewerRates.htm



Regards
Capitol

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:18:30 +0000, chris French
wrote:

In message , No Spam
writes
T i m wrote:

It could still be YOUR problem if they are high volume water users and
you want to sell?

Precisely.

No one looking at our house to buy even asked about he water supply
charging.

That may of been down to several things ..

They were light water users so knew it wouldn't impact them much ..
Didn't get round to asking those sorts of questions at that stage ..
Assumed that it you had one they would be stuck with it anyway ..


Also if everyone was metered it wouldn't be a problem but all partial
metering does is drive up costs for people still on the "rateable
value" system.

So? if those on the old system don't like it they can easily change

I don't understand that bit?

All the best ..

T i m

In message , Peter Scott
writes
I was interested by the comment about meters and resale. Meters are yet
another family-unfriendly device. I won't have one because I have a large
family-type house and don't want to put people off with a meter.

We have a family, we don't find it off putting, as I said even with 2
adults and 2 children (in typical 3 bed 1930's semi) a pretty large
garden etc. we still beat the fixed charges on our meter, and that's
with no particular effort to limit consumption.

I chuckle
when I hear people congratulating themselves on the savings they've made.
Just wait to see what impact there will be on the price of the house.

We just sold our house, it has a meter, we got the asking price (and
good one at that) in 12 days, the question of being on meter was never
mentioned.

--
Chris French, Leeds

In message , Peter Scott
writes
I was interested by the comment about meters and resale. Meters are yet
another family-unfriendly device. I won't have one because I have a large
family-type house and don't want to put people off with a meter.

We have a family, we don't find it off putting, as I said even with 2
adults and 2 children (in typical 3 bed 1930's semi) a pretty large
garden etc. we still beat the fixed charges on our meter, and that's
with no particular effort to limit consumption.

I chuckle
when I hear people congratulating themselves on the savings they've made.
Just wait to see what impact there will be on the price of the house.

We just sold our house, it has a meter, we got the asking price (and
good one at that) in 12 days, the question of being on meter was never
mentioned.

We are buying a house in Cambridgeshire, meter or not really wasn't an
issue for us (though as it happens, most did seem to have meters) I'm
sure there are few people who would be deterred, but I think the
impact is limited.

--
Chris French, Leeds

In message , T i m
writes

But with one older 'kid' and a low rateable value I don't think our
bill would be less and I believe the waste costs stay the same?

Waste is charged at a per m^3 rate at 95% of water consumption
--
Chris French, Leeds

In message , T i m
writes
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:18:30 +0000, chris French
wrote:

In message , No Spam
writes
T i m wrote:

It could still be YOUR problem if they are high volume water users and
you want to sell?

Precisely.

No one looking at our house to buy even asked about he water supply
charging.

That may of been down to several things ..

They were light water users so knew it wouldn't impact them much ..
Didn't get round to asking those sorts of questions at that stage ..
Assumed that it you had one they would be stuck with it anyway ..

Oh sure it could be down to many reasons, my point was just that it
didn't seem to impact on our house sale. In fact given that our house
was the quickest to sell in our road for a long time I could argue the
opposite if I really wanted to.

I'm not saying this might not be an issue for some people, but I think
the concern expressed here by some gives it much to much weight.

Anyway, our water bills are the lowest of our bills I should think.





--
Chris French, Leeds

In article , Capitol wrote:
I believe that most consumers are reasonably responsible
and don't waste water.

People with gardens, hoses and unmetered water are capable of
using large amounts without thinking about it. Also look at the
various threads here in which people say that the shower volume
produced by even the largest combi is inadequate. Both these
groups would not consider themselves to be wasting water but they
probably use twice the average or more.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

"Vera" wrote in message
...


one day, some people will not be able to
afford clean, fresh drinking water

....

and that WILL happen once the whole
country is metered.

WHY?

Mary

"T i m" wrote in message
...

Spose not .. it's called 'London Village' (by some) now .. ?

To me it's certainly Godless.

Me too. I avoid going when I can.



There aren't any cameras

Youfes nicked them all?

Where they are they're far too high. Our local coppers are very experienced
:-)

and not all the cars are stolen.


er - no Tupperware boxes here.

Thinks - does he keep his prescription in a plastic box? How odd. Must be
a
s**th*rn custom ...

No, it's because I don't happen to have any spare goats bladders to
keep mine in so use tupperware (you get it delivered to the door round
here)?

Our medication comes in individually foil wrapped packs. One day such
civilisation might get to your parts :-)

I think tupperware is superior to your goats bladder for
keeping drugs fresh ..

You still relying on Culpeper's remedies???

shakes head in despair

and in hindsight could explain some of your
'problems' taking bad medicine .. it could explain some of your
symtoms .. ?

Like being able to spell?

How many times have I told you, it's "symptoms". The p is silent as in
swimming.


note to self: apparently they don't teach them history down there ...

History is past, finished, over .. down sauf we look to the future and
therefore now enjoy such things as mains electricity and plumbed in
toilets (not a 'long drop'). ;-)

We've had all those things for a long time. It might be a novelty to you, of
course ...


Save water - drink wine.

Never been much of a wine drinker and have never drunk spirits ..

ah! That could explain a lot!

neither are things we have in the house and wouldn't think of buying.
If we ever get given drink (as a 'thank you' for doing stuff) we
normally give it away?

In my experience that's the only thing to do with what you're given. I
suspect that presents of drink go round in circles.

I did brew my own beer and wine (do you 'brew' wine?) but found myself
drinking the wine by the pint then falling over .. ;-(

Hmm. I shan't answer that ...

But since this is a diy group I'll say that I did used to make wine and
mead, about a gallon a week, and brew beer and stout. Some of it was
excellent.

Some wasn't.

There are those who claim that the drinks they made were/are always far
superior to anything you can buy. I don't believe them.

Mary

All the best ..

T i m

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
In article , Capitol wrote:
I believe that most consumers are reasonably responsible
and don't waste water.

People with gardens, hoses and unmetered water are capable of
using large amounts without thinking about it.

Huge amounts.

Also look at the
various threads here in which people say that the shower volume
produced by even the largest combi is inadequate. Both these
groups would not consider themselves to be wasting water but they
probably use twice the average or more.

Yes.

Mary

"Peter Scott" wrote in message
...
.

Quite. They don't feel the need to wash cars, water gardens, fill
paddling
pools, flush lavatories - especially all done with purified drinking
water.

Mary

Normally I find myself agreeing with what you say, Mary.

Good Heavens! And you're admitting it here???

Wotchit ... tar sticks.

For once I don't
think I do. Purifying water does not so far I know use a lot of energy.
Bacteria do all the work. The energy is only needed to turn the spray bars
and do some pumping. I think that water is so central and essential that
it
should be sold as cheaply as possible without profit. I was on a Chamber
of
Commerce commitee when the whole shebang was being privatised. There were
only two of us who had doubts about it. I could not see what benefit there
was. If profits have to be distributed then prices would go up. Efficiency
in private companies is often poor. Councils generally ran water plants
well.

I'm not saying that all privatised water companies are efficient (or that
all LAs were) but I do know that 'Yorkshire Water' is very efficient and I'm
proud to be associated with what they do.

As so it has come to pass. We are now made to feel bad about watering our
gardens, giving our kids a bit of fun in the summer and *flushing the
bog*.

Apparently we're not made to feel bad about it!

Oh tempera, oh mores!

'Twas always thus.


What's needed is to stop wasting water. It should be recycled through
multiple purifiers rather than piped down to the sea and thrown away. Yes,
we are short of rain in some parts of this country but by re-use we could
all have all we wanted.

I agree 100%

I was interested by the comment about meters and resale. Meters are yet
another family-unfriendly device. I won't have one because I have a large
family-type house and don't want to put people off with a meter. I chuckle
when I hear people congratulating themselves on the savings they've made.
Just wait to see what impact there will be on the price of the house.

We don't congratulate ourselves about what we save, that's not why we had a
meter installed.

As for the re-sale of our house, that doesn't matter to us either, not that
I think the meter will be the most off-putting feature.

We have to take a bigger view and not think in purely selfish, greedy terms.
Our water meter is part of the whole way of life we've chosen. We put our
money where our mouths are. If we save on water bills for the present it's
spent on not supporting intensive food production. Swings and roundabouts.

That's it. Rant over!

It wasn't all that much of a rant - you'll have to do better than that.

VBG

Mary

Peter Scott

"chris French" wrote in message

We are buying a house in Cambridgeshire, meter or not really wasn't an
issue for us (though as it happens, most did seem to have meters) I'm sure
there are few people who would be deterred, but I think the impact is
limited.

I'm sorry you're leaving the broad acres, Chris. Will you be telling us
where your new abode is?

Mary

--
Chris French, Leeds

"chris French" wrote in message
...
In message , T i m
writes

But with one older 'kid' and a low rateable value I don't think our
bill would be less and I believe the waste costs stay the same?

Waste is charged at a per m^3 rate at 95% of water consumption

That's interesting, I suppose I might have known that once but couldn't
haveplucked it out just like that!

Mary
--
Chris French, Leeds

Peter Scott wrote:
... I think that water is so central and essential that it
should be sold as cheaply as possible without profit. I was on a Chamber of
Commerce commitee when the whole shebang was being privatised. There were
only two of us who had doubts about it. I could not see what benefit there
was. If profits have to be distributed then prices would go up. Efficiency
in private companies is often poor. Councils generally ran water plants
well.

This is why we in Scotland -- a country short of neither rainfall nor
lochs and reservoirs in which to store it -- have to pay more for our
public water than customers of private-sector water companies in England.

If I can choose competitive gas and electricity suppliers why can't I do
the same for water?

There is very little that councils run well, and even less that
unelected quangos run well.

Owain

Vera wrote:
I am sure you are wrong once the whole country is metered.
I just hate the idea that one day, some people will not be able to
afford clean, fresh drinking water and that WILL happen once the whole
country is metered. I know I am tilting at windmills but I will never
have a water meter until I am forced to.

Why should metered water be any different from metered gas, electricity,
telephone -- or cabbages at Tesco for that matter?

Owain

"Owain" wrote in message
. ..
Vera wrote:
I am sure you are wrong once the whole country is metered.
I just hate the idea that one day, some people will not be able to
afford clean, fresh drinking water and that WILL happen once the whole
country is metered. I know I am tilting at windmills but I will never
have a water meter until I am forced to.

Why should metered water be any different from metered gas, electricity,
telephone -- or cabbages at Tesco for that matter?

Quite.

People expect to pay more for their beer than drinking water and a lot more
for smelly stuff to put in bathing water and nasty chemicals. to put down
the lav and ...

Mary

Owain

In message , Mary
Fisher wrote

People expect to pay more for their beer than drinking water



Remove the tax element from beer and you will find that many people are
prepared to pay many times more for bottled water.

--
Alan

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:31:22 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


Our medication comes in individually foil wrapped packs.

Ah .. 'medication' you call it .. I've seen the other addicts under
the railway arches with their little foil packs ...


You still relying on Culpeper's remedies???

shakes head in despair

Or "Dr. Nicholas" as we call him .. nice bloke ;-)

and in hindsight could explain some of your
'problems' taking bad medicine .. it could explain some of your
symtoms .. ?

Like being able to spell?

How many times have I told you, it's "symptoms". The p is silent as in
swimming.

LOL ..

Never been much of a wine drinker and have never drunk spirits ..

ah! That could explain a lot!

Because I never submit stuff here whilst intoxicated MARY ..?? ;-)

In my experience that's the only thing to do with what you're given. I
suspect that presents of drink go round in circles.

I did brew my own beer and wine (do you 'brew' wine?) but found myself
drinking the wine by the pint then falling over .. ;-(

Hmm. I shan't answer that ...

Good grief .. ;-)

But since this is a diy group I'll say that I did used to make wine and
mead, about a gallon a week, and brew beer and stout. Some of it was
excellent.

Some wasn't.

My first wife liked mild and I'm a suven lager drinker (Special Brew
mainly .. normally goes hand-in-hand with your foil wrapped 'medicine'
Mary g)... and while I was there I did some bitter. It all seemed to
go ok and didn't seem to hang about very long once ready ? ;-)

There are those who claim that the drinks they made were/are always far
superior to anything you can buy. I don't believe them.

It's all a matter of taste though isn't it? It could be that someone
may actually prefer the taste of their particular home-brew over
anything they could buy?

All the best ..

T i m

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:18:35 +0000, chris French
wrote:



I'm not saying this might not be an issue for some people, but I think
the concern expressed here by some gives it much to much weight.

Anyway, our water bills are the lowest of our bills I should think.

Our water bill is much more than our gas .. the last gas bill was
£5.50 ;-) (and we use gas for cooking, water heating and some heating)

Just out of interest ..

Our rateable value is 169

So our water is £108.87 and waste £77.35

As we rarely wash cars, don't have a garden to water, have one loo
with a split flush (defaults to min water use) and a small corner bath
that's mainly used as a (electric) shower (low volume), do you think
we would be much better off on a meter?

All the best ..

T i m

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 07:59:23 GMT, T i m wrote:

Just out of interest ..

Our rateable value is 169

So our water is £108.87 and waste £77.35

I should add the supply cost for the water is £85.00 with a fixed cost
of £23. So *if* I reduced the supply cost by 50% by being on a meter
I would save £42 / annum? (£30 fixed charge for the waste).

T i m

When did Tesco start metering cabbages?

Well they didn't have an "all you can eat" offer on cabbages last time I
looked.

Christian.

P.S. Telephones don't have to be metered either. Ours isn't, at least for
standard national and local calls.

"Vera" wrote in message

Why should metered water be any different from metered gas, electricity,
telephone -- or cabbages at Tesco for that matter?

We can live without gas, electricity and the telephone.

I wonder how you'd feel if they were witdrawn?

When did Tesco start metering cabbages?

When they found they could increase their hold on suppliers.

But that's another story.

Mary

"T i m" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:31:22 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


Our medication comes in individually foil wrapped packs.

Ah .. 'medication' you call it .. I've seen the other addicts under
the railway arches with their little foil packs ...

Oddly, I'm not an addict, even though some are morphine based. I keep
forgetting :-(


You still relying on Culpeper's remedies???

shakes head in despair

Or "Dr. Nicholas" as we call him .. nice bloke ;-)

You're older than you look!


Never been much of a wine drinker and have never drunk spirits ..

ah! That could explain a lot!

Because I never submit stuff here whilst intoxicated MARY ..?? ;-)

You could have fooled me!


I did brew my own beer and wine (do you 'brew' wine?) but found myself
drinking the wine by the pint then falling over .. ;-(

Hmm. I shan't answer that ...

Good grief .. ;-)

The shock element of wit.

But since this is a diy group I'll say that I did used to make wine and
mead, about a gallon a week, and brew beer and stout. Some of it was
excellent.

Some wasn't.

My first wife liked mild and I'm a suven lager drinker (Special Brew
mainly .. normally goes hand-in-hand with your foil wrapped 'medicine'
Mary g)

Oh no it doesn't! In fact, in my opinion it doesn't go hand in had with
anything. But I only drink in association with food.

.... and while I was there I did some bitter. It all seemed to
go ok and didn't seem to hang about very long once ready ? ;-)

Beers of all types were certainly less challenging to achieve a good result.
The other day I found some stout I made in the 70s. The fizz has gone (it's
in thick bottles with screw in stoppers with knurled tops and decayed rubber
washers) but the taste is still good and it's excellent for cooking.

There are those who claim that the drinks they made were/are always far
superior to anything you can buy. I don't believe them.

It's all a matter of taste though isn't it? It could be that someone
may actually prefer the taste of their particular home-brew over
anything they could buy?

How would they know? No-one can taste everything he can buy even if he could
buy everything.

Mary

"T i m" wrote in message
...


Just out of interest ..

Our rateable value is 169

So our water is £108.87 and waste £77.35

As we rarely wash cars, don't have a garden to water, have one loo
with a split flush (defaults to min water use) and a small corner bath
that's mainly used as a (electric) shower (low volume), do you think
we would be much better off on a meter?

Depends how much you drink ... :-)

Mary

All the best ..

T i m

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:41:40 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

Our medication comes in individually foil wrapped packs.

Ah .. 'medication' you call it .. I've seen the other addicts under
the railway arches with their little foil packs ...

Oddly, I'm not an addict, even though some are morphine based. I keep
forgetting :-(

Come on Mary .. you know your first step to recovery is honesty ..

Or "Dr. Nicholas" as we call him .. nice bloke ;-)

You're older than you look!

But not wiser .. ;-(



My first wife liked mild and I'm a suven lager drinker (Special Brew
mainly .. normally goes hand-in-hand with your foil wrapped 'medicine'
Mary g)

Oh no it doesn't! In fact, in my opinion it doesn't go hand in had with
anything. But I only drink in association with food.

No, not in an ideal sense but if you visit any good doorway or railway
arches you will see SB *is* the drink of choice ..

... and while I was there I did some bitter. It all seemed to
go ok and didn't seem to hang about very long once ready ? ;-)

Beers of all types were certainly less challenging to achieve a good result.
The other day I found some stout I made in the 70s.

I thought your restraining order prevented from going to the dump any
more? ;-)

The fizz has gone (it's
in thick bottles with screw in stoppers with knurled tops and decayed rubber
washers) but the taste is still good and it's excellent for cooking.

I bet! looks at others note to self, don't eat round Mary's any
more ..


It's all a matter of taste though isn't it? It could be that someone
may actually prefer the taste of their particular home-brew over
anything they could buy?

How would they know? No-one can taste everything he can buy even if he could
buy everything.

You did your best though didn't you Mary (15 bottles of wine in 12
mins ..) .. you were lucky the staff of Oddbins didn't call the
Police .. ! (lucky you are *known* in the area ..)

All the best ..

T i m

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:42:35 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
.. .


Just out of interest ..

Our rateable value is 169

So our water is £108.87 and waste £77.35

As we rarely wash cars, don't have a garden to water, have one loo
with a split flush (defaults to min water use) and a small corner bath
that's mainly used as a (electric) shower (low volume), do you think
we would be much better off on a meter?

Depends how much you drink ... :-)

Was it in the Hitch Hikers Guide ....

".. a certain tourist planet that was eroding away due to the
excessive amount of mass being removed by visitors. It is therefore
required that you excrete as much as you eat - you get a receipt from
the toilet - or the difference is surgically removed before you can
leave for home."

T i m ;-)

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:41:40 -0000, "Mary Fisher"

Oddly, I'm not an addict, even though some are morphine based. I keep
forgetting :-(

Come on Mary .. you know your first step to recovery is honesty ..

Sadly, there is no recovery for some conditions, just quality of life
issues.

Or "Dr. Nicholas" as we call him .. nice bloke ;-)

You're older than you look!

But not wiser .. ;-(

I couldn't possibly comment!



My first wife liked mild and I'm a suven lager drinker (Special Brew
mainly .. normally goes hand-in-hand with your foil wrapped 'medicine'
Mary g)

Oh no it doesn't! In fact, in my opinion it doesn't go hand in had with
anything. But I only drink in association with food.

No, not in an ideal sense but if you visit any good doorway or railway
arches you will see SB *is* the drink of choice ..

I bow to your greater experience ...

... and while I was there I did some bitter. It all seemed to
go ok and didn't seem to hang about very long once ready ? ;-)

Beers of all types were certainly less challenging to achieve a good
result.
The other day I found some stout I made in the 70s.

I thought your restraining order prevented from going to the dump any
more? ;-)

House arrest allows access to under the stairs :-)

The fizz has gone (it's
in thick bottles with screw in stoppers with knurled tops and decayed
rubber
washers) but the taste is still good and it's excellent for cooking.

I bet! looks at others note to self, don't eat round Mary's any
more ..

If you wanted to you'd have to join the queue. It's a long one.


It's all a matter of taste though isn't it? It could be that someone
may actually prefer the taste of their particular home-brew over
anything they could buy?

How would they know? No-one can taste everything he can buy even if he
could
buy everything.

You did your best though didn't you Mary (15 bottles of wine in 12
mins ..) .. you were lucky the staff of Oddbins didn't call the
Police .. !

I couldn't manage that any more :-(

And when I could it was Guinness anyway!

(lucky you are *known* in the area ..)

A Household Name.

Mary

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:12:31 +0000, Vera wrote:

Try giving up clean water...

Quite a few places around where I was brought up (rural Yorkshire) have no
mains water, and they manage just fine.

Kieran

"Vera" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:35:52 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Vera" wrote in message

Why should metered water be any different from metered gas, electricity,
telephone -- or cabbages at Tesco for that matter?

We can live without gas, electricity and the telephone.

I wonder how you'd feel if they were witdrawn?

It'd be dreadful to lose electricity. I could easily do without gas.
The telephone could go as long as I had electricity.

Try giving up clean water...

I have done. Animals and Man have done for most of Time, some still do.

The only use for clean water which could be considered *essential* is for
drinking. I could do without elecricity or gas, my life would be different,
that's all.

How about having just pure drinking water metered? It would be expensive of
course ... but worthwhile.

Mary

"Kieran Mansley" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:12:31 +0000, Vera wrote:

Try giving up clean water...

Quite a few places around where I was brought up (rural Yorkshire) have no
mains water, and they manage just fine.

Oh yes, you remind me of when we spent time on the NYMoors, that was spring
water. a friend in Cornwall has only well water. A daughter uses spring
water in Wales ... but buys bottled water for drinking. I don't when we stay
there ...

Mary

Kieran

Quite a few places around where I was brought up (rural Yorkshire) have no
mains water, and they manage just fine.

But they still have clean water by other means, whether it is from well,
spring or stream.

Living without mains electricity would be fine if you had a generator, or
hydro plant.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
Quite a few places around where I was brought up (rural Yorkshire) have
no
mains water, and they manage just fine.

But they still have clean water by other means, whether it is from well,
spring or stream.

Living without mains electricity would be fine if you had a generator, or
hydro plant.

Electricity isn't essential. If it were we wouldn't be here.

Mary

Christian.

But they still have clean water by other means, whether it is from well,
spring or stream.

Living without mains electricity would be fine if you had a generator, or
hydro plant.

Electricity isn't essential. If it were we wouldn't be here.

I never claimed otherwise. (Leaving aside electrical impulses in the nervous
system...)

Christian.

Quite. They don't feel the need to wash cars, water gardens, fill paddling
pools, flush lavatories - especially all done with purified drinking
water.

Mary


Normally I find myself agreeing with what you say, Mary. For once I don't
think I do. Purifying water does not so far I know use a lot of energy.
Bacteria do all the work. The energy is only needed to turn the spray bars
and do some pumping. I think that water is so central and essential that it
should be sold as cheaply as possible without profit. I was on a Chamber of
Commerce commitee when the whole shebang was being privatised. There were
only two of us who had doubts about it. I could not see what benefit there
was. If profits have to be distributed then prices would go up. Efficiency
in private companies is often poor. Councils generally ran water plants
well.

As so it has come to pass. We are now made to feel bad about watering our
gardens, giving our kids a bit of fun in the summer and *flushing the bog*.
Oh tempera, oh mores!

Just as with rail, water should be nationalised. The whole privatisation
idea is a disaster and this lot of industrial lap-dogs are worse than the
Tories. At least the Tories could smell a rat from their mates and knew that
they were only doing it to make a buck. This lot of preachers don't know
their a**es from their apices.

What's needed is to stop wasting water. It should be recycled through
multiple purifiers rather than piped down to the sea and thrown away. Yes,
we are short of rain in some parts of this country but by re-use we could
all have all we wanted.

I was interested by the comment about meters and resale. Meters are yet
another family-unfriendly device. I won't have one because I have a large
family-type house and don't want to put people off with a meter. I chuckle
when I hear people congratulating themselves on the savings they've made.
Just wait to see what impact there will be on the price of the house.



Peter Scott