I'm currently having a loft conversion done. My architect drew up the
plans and they have been submitted and approved by building regs. The
build is now nearly finished, but one of the guys from the loft
company said that the building inspector my insist that I have a wall
built downstairs, for fire regs. Bearing in mind that the building has
been altered according to the submitted and approved plans can the
Building regs people then change their minds? If so it strikes me as a
bit bonkers having commiteed 25K to this build so far and I really
dont want any of it changing.

Cheers

Blakey

blakey9000 wrote:

I'm currently having a loft conversion done. My architect drew up the
plans and they have been submitted and approved by building regs. The
build is now nearly finished, but one of the guys from the loft
company said that the building inspector my insist that I have a wall
built downstairs, for fire regs. Bearing in mind that the building has
been altered according to the submitted and approved plans can the
Building regs people then change their minds? If so it strikes me as a
bit bonkers having commiteed 25K to this build so far and I really
dont want any of it changing.

I think it depends what you want to call it - if you want
to claim the house now has an extra bedroom, then you have
to follow more regs than if you simply call it a loft
conversion.

--
jc

Remove the -not from email

build is now nearly finished, but one of the guys from the loft
company said that the building inspector my insist that I have a wall
built downstairs, for fire regs.

Do you mean that you have open plan stairs downstairs or something?

Christian.

Do you mean that you have open plan stairs downstairs or something?

Christian.

Yes the stairs downstairs are open plan, however I have building regs
approval and the staircase was clearly indicated on the plans, the new
stairs are however enclosed.

Blakey

"blakey9000" wrote in message
m...
Yes the stairs downstairs are open plan, however I have building regs
approval and the staircase was clearly indicated on the plans, the new
stairs are however enclosed.

Are you sure you have an "approved" plan? If you've left it to an architect
or plan drawer, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that he may have
put the application on a Building Notice, or the plans may be rejected, or
conditionally approved subject to this item. I'm not clear from your reply
whether the open plan stair was indicated at ground floor level. If not, it
may have just been assumed by the plan checker that it was enclosed.

If none of the above apply, and you have fully approved plans showing an
open plan layout, then the Council can't take enforcement action against you
for failing to provide an enclosure (except by way of an injunction to the
High Court for a dangerous building). However they can withhold a
completion certificate on the basis that it doesn't comply with the
requirements.

However, the lack of an enclosure at ground floor level is so fundamental to
the safety of a loft conversion that any competent architect or Building
Control Surveyor should have picked it up on day one. It's one of the first
questions I ask when I'm asked, "what do I need for a loft conversion?".
--
Hugo Nebula
"The fact that no-one on the internet wants a piece of this
shows you just how far you've strayed from the pack".

"Hugo Nebula" wrote in message ...
"blakey9000" wrote in message
m...
Yes the stairs downstairs are open plan, however I have building regs
approval and the staircase was clearly indicated on the plans, the new
stairs are however enclosed.

Are you sure you have an "approved" plan?

Plans are definitly approved I have the paperwork from the local
authority and their are no conditions to its approval.

Yes the ground floor stairs are open plan into my living room, which
leads up to first floor landing with new fire door to lobby at bottom
of (new enclosed)stairs to loft, also in lobby is another fire door to
another room, with window which is apparently a means of escape.


Blakey

"blakey9000" wrote in message
om...
"Hugo Nebula" wrote in message
...
"blakey9000" wrote in message
m...
Yes the stairs downstairs are open plan, however I have building regs
approval and the staircase was clearly indicated on the plans, the new
stairs are however enclosed.

Are you sure you have an "approved" plan?

Plans are definitly approved I have the paperwork from the local
authority and their are no conditions to its approval.

Yes the ground floor stairs are open plan into my living room, which
leads up to first floor landing with new fire door to lobby at bottom
of (new enclosed)stairs to loft, also in lobby is another fire door to
another room, with window which is apparently a means of escape.


Blakey

A now I see !!! If you already have proper fire doors at the appropriate points
on the stair-well, then you're OK. As long as the new part of the staircase is
not fully open all the way down to the open plan part, then you're sorted.


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"Hugo Nebula" wrote in message ...
"blakey9000" wrote in message
m...

If none of the above apply, and you have fully approved plans showing an
open plan layout, then the Council can't take enforcement action against you
for failing to provide an enclosure (except by way of an injunction to the
High Court for a dangerous building). However they can withhold a
completion certificate on the basis that it doesn't comply with the
requirements.

However, the lack of an enclosure at ground floor level is so fundamental to
the safety of a loft conversion that any competent architect or Building
Control Surveyor should have picked it up on day one. It's one of the first
questions I ask when I'm asked, "what do I need for a loft conversion?".

I know we're still talking 'theoretically' here, but if the latter is
the case, does that mean that the punter just has to grin and bear it,
and pick up the tab for undoing work done so far, and redoing it to
the appropriate standard?

I had a slightly similar situation myself, in that I am doing my
current project under a building notice. The BCO has been round many
times to inspect, and on one visit, said 'did you put sound insulation
in those partition walls?' (she'd seen them previously, before the
plasterboard was fitted) 'Er, no, did I need to...' It wasn't a big
deal to put right, because said walls hadn't yet been skimmed, so was
just a simple matter of unscrewing the plasterboard panels. However,
the experience did get me wondering what else might suddenly strike
her to check up on in future visits, before I get my completion
certificate. I did ask her at the time if there was anything else I
should be aware of - don't think so, she said.

Is this just a risk/side-effect of me being a cheapskate and not doing
the job on a full plan?

David

On 15 Jun 2004 01:35:53 -0700, a particular chimpanzee named
(Lobster) randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

I had a slightly similar situation myself, in that I am doing my
current project under a building notice. The BCO has been round many
times to inspect, and on one visit, said 'did you put sound insulation
in those partition walls?' (she'd seen them previously, before the
plasterboard was fitted) 'Er, no, did I need to...'

Perhaps you should have just nodded your head and lied. It's a little
game we have to play sometimes, like, "Have you put a cavity tray in
above the new lean to roof?" "No, it's too fiddly and time consuming."
"Wrong answer, try again".

A BCO will make reasonable efforts to check aspects of the
construction, but we're not Clerks of Works; we can't be on site every
day, so we have to take peoples' word for what they've done. The
other side to that is that the BCO can abrogate responsibility for
something which was said to be done but wasn't.

However,
the experience did get me wondering what else might suddenly strike
her to check up on in future visits, before I get my completion
certificate. I did ask her at the time if there was anything else I
should be aware of - don't think so, she said.

Without full plans, neither of you can be certain that you've covered
everything.

Is this just a risk/side-effect of me being a cheapskate and not doing
the job on a full plan?

One of them, yes.
--
Hugo Nebula
"The fact that no-one on the internet wants a piece of this
shows you just how far you've strayed from the pack".

Yes the stairs downstairs are open plan, however I have building regs
approval and the staircase was clearly indicated on the plans, the new
stairs are however enclosed.

Whoops. Whilst you have obviously been subject to some sort of brain fart
between the architect and the BCO, you really should have the stairs
enclosed anyway. 3 storey buildings are a much more dangerous fire risk than
2 storey ones and it is much more likely to involve death if you jump from
that high up when things get hairy because the stairs are blocked. The
regulations do make sense.

Christian.

So why does an extra floor make you prone to fire then? Id there was a fire
on the ground floor stairs, trust me I wouldnt jump out the new floor. TBH
all i really wanted to know was if Building regs could change approved
plans.

Blakey 9K
"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
Yes the stairs downstairs are open plan, however I have building regs
approval and the staircase was clearly indicated on the plans, the new
stairs are however enclosed.

Whoops. Whilst you have obviously been subject to some sort of brain fart
between the architect and the BCO, you really should have the stairs
enclosed anyway. 3 storey buildings are a much more dangerous fire risk
than
2 storey ones and it is much more likely to involve death if you jump from
that high up when things get hairy because the stairs are blocked. The
regulations do make sense.

Christian.

So why does an extra floor make you prone to fire then? Id there was a
fire
on the ground floor stairs, trust me I wouldnt jump out the new floor.

Several reasons.

a) Much quicker to bolt down one flight of stairs and through the door than
2.

b) You might not notice the fire so quickly being so remote from it, so
downstairs
will be well alight before escape attempt made.

c) More rooms. More people to shift. More babies to collect. May need to go
up two flights of stairs to collect baby before returning to ground floor.
Need stairs not to be on fire during this procedure. Need smoke not to be
rising up staircase.

d) Jump out of 1st floor window: Broken leg if unlucky. May even be a porch
or conservatory to clamber on to. Jump out of 2nd floor window: Broken neck
if unlucky.

e) It is sensible to have the same level of protection for a 2 storey house
too.

Christian.

Well you'll be pleaseed to hear that I passed building regs no problems. So
those of you who insist that the ground floor stairs be all boxed in etc, I
suggest you do a little further reading. :0)


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
build is now nearly finished, but one of the guys from the loft
company said that the building inspector my insist that I have a wall
built downstairs, for fire regs.

Do you mean that you have open plan stairs downstairs or something?

Christian.

"james blake" wrote in message
...
Well you'll be pleaseed to hear that I passed building regs no problems.
So
those of you who insist that the ground floor stairs be all boxed in etc,
I
suggest you do a little further reading. :0)



Well, that's good news, you'll probably be feeling quite releived at that!!!

Was there any indication as to what it was with your conversion that made
things compliant, having regards to the fact that the ground floor is open
plan? It just might help others (me included) whilst planning their
conversions.

However, it would be completely understandable if you didn't want to prod
that particular gimp during the inspection and question their decision too
closely, lest they scratch their heads and say "you're right - weve missed
something and it isn't compliant"!

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

No I dont mind telling you at all, I dont believe it would be possible for a
buildings control officer to miss it, if it was required.
It has to be said that although Building regs in theory are country wide, I
think it can be down to interpretation on individual Local Authoritys and
probably the BCO's within them.

My brother who is my architect said that he first came across a situation
like this about 9 months ago in Teignmouth, Devon (not where I am),
but said that he didnt think you would've beeen able to do it a couple of
years ago.

Basically where the stairs come down from the loft there is a lobby, to the
right of this is a fire door that leads to a landing and stairs downstairs
into my lounge, to
the left is another fire door leading to a bedroom that has a window at not
higher than something I cant remember. Each floor has a connected fire
alarm.

I think basically its something like..... The stairs to the front door are
the primary escape route even though they arent enclosed, however should
there be a problem getting there I can also use
the first floor window when coming down from the loft without entering the
rest of the house, the also has the double velux windows for the fire
brigade to get into.

Hope this helps

Blakey


"RichardS" noaccess@invalid wrote in message
.. .

"james blake" wrote in message
...
Well you'll be pleaseed to hear that I passed building regs no problems.
So
those of you who insist that the ground floor stairs be all boxed in
etc,
I
suggest you do a little further reading. :0)



Well, that's good news, you'll probably be feeling quite releived at
that!!!

Was there any indication as to what it was with your conversion that made
things compliant, having regards to the fact that the ground floor is open
plan? It just might help others (me included) whilst planning their
conversions.

However, it would be completely understandable if you didn't want to prod
that particular gimp during the inspection and question their decision too
closely, lest they scratch their heads and say "you're right - weve missed
something and it isn't compliant"!

--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

blakey9000 wrote:

I'm currently having a loft conversion done. My architect drew up the
plans and they have been submitted and approved by building regs. The
build is now nearly finished, but one of the guys from the loft
company said that the building inspector my insist that I have a wall
built downstairs, for fire regs. Bearing in mind that the building has
been altered according to the submitted and approved plans can the
Building regs people then change their minds? If so it strikes me as a
bit bonkers having commiteed 25K to this build so far and I really
dont want any of it changing.

We had our loft converted last year adding a second (ground, first,
second) floor. We wanted to be able to use the conversion as a living
room or a bedroom. The fire regs require every room on every floor to
be seperated from the stairwell by a door.

This ment that the top of the stair well on the second floor had to be
seperated by a partition wall. Do any of the landings in your house
open out into a roon? Do you have an open plan stairwell?

Guy
-- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Guy Dawson I.T. Manager Crossflight Ltd

"blakey9000" wrote in message
om...
I'm currently having a loft conversion done. My architect drew up the
plans and they have been submitted and approved by building regs. The
build is now nearly finished, but one of the guys from the loft
company said that the building inspector my insist that I have a wall
built downstairs, for fire regs. Bearing in mind that the building has
been altered according to the submitted and approved plans can the
Building regs people then change their minds? If so it strikes me as a
bit bonkers having commiteed 25K to this build so far and I really
dont want any of it changing.

Cheers

Blakey

This site has the Approved Documents that are the guidelines for all of these
type of builds:

http://tinyurl.co.uk/0gzl (short version)

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...hcst?n=240&l=2
(long version)

Documents A and B might be worth a read through, although they do go on a bit,
and give yourself a better understanding of the way it should go.

It might even give you some ammunition to fire back if things do get a bit out
of hand.