If I want to build a new house, I understand that it needs to adhere
to all the necessary building / wiring regs etc.

In my own (old) house I know there are plenty of aspects which don't
come up to modern standards (mostly for historical reasons) although
I'm perfectly happy with it in terms of safety and economics etc; I
know that there is no obligation on me to update my house to meet 2003
regs?.

So far so good; where I am unclear is what the rules are in between
the above scenarios. What about if I buy a property - equally old and
not fulfilling current regs - in order to do a refurb and sell on or
let out? Obviously I need to ensure building control approve any
substantive alterations I may make, like sewers, openings in
loadbearing walls etc, but what about other aspects? Eg, I know there
is nowhere near enough roofing insulation; aspects of the wiring are
not done to 2003 standards; and any number of other things. Obviously
a prospective buyer's surveyor may highlight these things in the
future, but apart from that, am I obliged to update everything? Is it
any different because this is an investment property and not my
primary dwelling? Does it depend on the extent of the refurbishment
(eg bit of wallpaper and paint versus major structural alterations)?

Thanks in advance
David

Lobster wrote:
If I want to build a new house, I understand that it needs to adhere
to all the necessary building / wiring regs etc.

In my own (old) house I know there are plenty of aspects which don't
come up to modern standards (mostly for historical reasons) although
I'm perfectly happy with it in terms of safety and economics etc; I
know that there is no obligation on me to update my house to meet 2003
regs?.

So far so good; where I am unclear is what the rules are in between
the above scenarios. What about if I buy a property - equally old and
not fulfilling current regs - in order to do a refurb and sell on or
let out? Obviously I need to ensure building control approve any
substantive alterations I may make, like sewers, openings in
loadbearing walls etc, but what about other aspects? Eg, I know there
is nowhere near enough roofing insulation; aspects of the wiring are
not done to 2003 standards; and any number of other things. Obviously
a prospective buyer's surveyor may highlight these things in the
future, but apart from that, am I obliged to update everything? Is it
any different because this is an investment property and not my
primary dwelling? Does it depend on the extent of the refurbishment
(eg bit of wallpaper and paint versus major structural alterations)?

Thanks in advance
David

I'm pretty sure you're generally only requried to update things you're
changing. Therefore, if you're re-wriring the house - do it to the current
regs. If you're altering a single circuit, that circuit should be to regs
(though others may not be).

If you're replacing a single window, then that window has to be to regs.
You don't need to replace all windows, though any that are replaced must
meet regs.

Boiler - replacing a boiler does not require you to change your cylinder to
meet regs, but if you do change it (corroded, old etc) then it must meet
regs.

Basically, anything new/replaced must meet regs. Anything untouched
doesn't.

I could be completely wrong though!

David

So far so good; where I am unclear is what the rules are in between
the above scenarios. What about if I buy a property - equally old and
not fulfilling current regs - in order to do a refurb and sell on or
let out?

Anything you change must be done to current standards.

i.e. an extension would require the full shebang to modern standards. A
rewire would be required to modern standards. Major alterations to part of
the dwelling would require you to install mains smoke alarms in those parts.
Any new walls would have to be insulated to the required u-Values. A new
heating system would have to comply with Part L. etc.

Rules for renting (particularly houses of multiple occupation) may be
different, requiring changes to bring stuff up to date, even if you weren't
intending to touch them. This is particularly the case when it comes to fire
safety.

Does it depend on the extent of the refurbishment (eg bit of wallpaper
and paint versus major structural alterations)?

Yes. If you wallpaper an external wall, you don't have to do anything. If
you rebuild the wall from scratch, you'll have to insulate it, unless you
can pass it off as a "repair".

Christian.

Boiler - replacing a boiler does not require you to change your
cylinder to meet regs, but if you do change it (corroded, old etc)
then it must meet regs.

Actually, if you replace a boiler, you do have to bring any external heating
control systems up to date. This may require addition of TRVs, cylinder
thermostats, room stats, programmers, zone valves etc.

Christian.

Lobster wrote:
let out? Obviously I need to ensure building control approve any
substantive alterations I may make, like sewers, openings in

You're going to change some words somewhere? (Substantive - a noun or
pronoun used in place of a noun)

I know it's common usage now but don't you really mean substantial?

--
Chris Green

Lobster wrote:

If I want to build a new house, I understand that it needs to adhere
to all the necessary building / wiring regs etc.

In my own (old) house I know there are plenty of aspects which don't
come up to modern standards (mostly for historical reasons) although
I'm perfectly happy with it in terms of safety and economics etc; I
know that there is no obligation on me to update my house to meet 2003
regs?.

So far so good; where I am unclear is what the rules are in between
the above scenarios. What about if I buy a property - equally old and
not fulfilling current regs - in order to do a refurb and sell on or
let out? Obviously I need to ensure building control approve any
substantive alterations I may make, like sewers, openings in
loadbearing walls etc, but what about other aspects? Eg, I know there
is nowhere near enough roofing insulation; aspects of the wiring are
not done to 2003 standards; and any number of other things. Obviously
a prospective buyer's surveyor may highlight these things in the
future, but apart from that, am I obliged to update everything? Is it
any different because this is an investment property and not my
primary dwelling? Does it depend on the extent of the refurbishment
(eg bit of wallpaper and paint versus major structural alterations)?

Thanks in advance
David


My understanding of such things is that if you touch an area, it has to
be brought up to standard. I.e. you may not replace an old crittal
window with a new crittal window, unless you can demonstrate that teh
overll insulation of the room its in wil result in a tsandrad better or
equal to current regs.

Thr idea is a rolling improvement that in 60 years will result in all
properties being more or less up to current regs :-)

OTOH if you leave the loft alone, thats it. No need to insulate.

The exception to the above comments is listed buildings. While you may
be subject to other restrictions you do not have to use modern windows
but can use single glazed ones.

N

As other have said you need to do things to new standards as you progress.
Despite the fact that you may not be obliged to do so the fact that some
things are not up to standard may well have a detrimental effect on the
price or saleability.

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:13:36 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Lobster wrote:

If I want to build a new house, I understand that it needs to adhere
to all the necessary building / wiring regs etc.

In my own (old) house I know there are plenty of aspects which don't
come up to modern standards (mostly for historical reasons) although
I'm perfectly happy with it in terms of safety and economics etc; I
know that there is no obligation on me to update my house to meet 2003
regs?.

So far so good; where I am unclear is what the rules are in between
the above scenarios. What about if I buy a property - equally old and
not fulfilling current regs - in order to do a refurb and sell on or
let out? Obviously I need to ensure building control approve any
substantive alterations I may make, like sewers, openings in
loadbearing walls etc, but what about other aspects? Eg, I know there
is nowhere near enough roofing insulation; aspects of the wiring are
not done to 2003 standards; and any number of other things. Obviously
a prospective buyer's surveyor may highlight these things in the
future, but apart from that, am I obliged to update everything? Is it
any different because this is an investment property and not my
primary dwelling? Does it depend on the extent of the refurbishment
(eg bit of wallpaper and paint versus major structural alterations)?

Thanks in advance
David


My understanding of such things is that if you touch an area, it has to
be brought up to standard. I.e. you may not replace an old crittal
window with a new crittal window, unless you can demonstrate that teh
overll insulation of the room its in wil result in a tsandrad better or
equal to current regs.

...or you are doing a like-for-like replacement, e.g. of a damaged window.

wrote in message ...
Lobster wrote:
let out? Obviously I need to ensure building control approve any
substantive alterations I may make, like sewers, openings in

You're going to change some words somewhere? (Substantive - a noun or
pronoun used in place of a noun)

I know it's common usage now but don't you really mean substantial?

No.

I meant "substantive", adjective. Having independent existence, not
subordinate; actual, real, permanent. (Pocket OED, 1984).

Or try:
http://www.dictionary.co.uk/search.p...ry=substantive

But "substantial" would have done the trick too, had I felt so
inclined...

David

"Mike Harrison" wrote in message
...
My understanding of such things is that if you touch an area, it has to
be brought up to standard. I.e. you may not replace an old crittal
window with a new crittal window, unless you can demonstrate that teh
overll insulation of the room its in wil result in a tsandrad better or
equal to current regs.

..or you are doing a like-for-like replacement, e.g. of a damaged window.

Nope- that's not exempt. You CAN repair a damaged window - by replacing
broken glass or a rotted sill, but replacing the whole unit means you must
meet the new regs.

"G&M" wrote in message
...

"Mike Harrison" wrote in message
...
..or you are doing a like-for-like replacement, e.g. of a damaged
window.

Nope- that's not exempt. You CAN repair a damaged window - by replacing
broken glass or a rotted sill, but replacing the whole unit means you must
meet the new regs.

OK replace the sahes this month then replace the frame next month.

"Toby Sleigh" wrote in message
...

Nope- that's not exempt. You CAN repair a damaged window - by replacing
broken glass or a rotted sill, but replacing the whole unit means you
must
meet the new regs.

OK replace the sahes this month then replace the frame next month.


Yep - total nonsense I know but that's the rules.

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 21:10:49 -0000, a particular chimpanzee named
"Toby Sleigh" randomly hit the keyboard
and produced:

OK replace the sashes this month then replace the frame next month.

If you remove the frame, you've removed the sash as well. Ergo,
you've replaced the window.
--
Hugo Nebula
"The fact that no-one on the internet wants a piece of this
shows you just how far you've strayed from the pack".

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:20:46 +0000, a particular chimpanzee named Nick
Brooks randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

The exception to the above comments is listed buildings. While you may
be subject to other restrictions you do not have to use modern windows
but can use single glazed ones.

Not necessarily. If you have to replace windows with single-glazed or
thin double-glazed as a condition of any Listed Bldg/ Conservation
Area consent, then reasonable provision for energy conservation should
be made elsewhere where practicable (i.e., increased loft insulation,
more efficient replacement boiler, etc.).
--
Hugo Nebula
"The fact that no-one on the internet wants a piece of this
shows you just how far you've strayed from the pack".