Hello.

My grandfather has just had a garage built and has been quoted, from what I
can gather, a very reasonable price for getting electricity to the garage
via armoured cable from his house. The only problem I can see is the guy
doing the electrics, although a competent and ex-qualified electrician, is
no longer qualified (retired I think). I am aware of these new regulations
that have come into force in January this year but I'm wondering, can this
guy do the work and then get a qualified electrician to inspect and provide
a certificate for the work? If so, how much is an inspection?

Thanks
Alan

"Alan" wrote in message
. uk...
Hello.

My grandfather has just had a garage built and has been quoted, from what
I
can gather, a very reasonable price for getting electricity to the garage
via armoured cable from his house. The only problem I can see is the guy
doing the electrics, although a competent and ex-qualified electrician, is
no longer qualified (retired I think). I am aware of these new regulations
that have come into force in January this year but I'm wondering, can this
guy do the work and then get a qualified electrician to inspect and
provide
a certificate for the work? If so, how much is an inspection?

Thanks
Alan

The work was completed in December 2004 wasn't it ;-)

Regards Jeff

In article , Jeff
writes

"Alan" wrote in message
.uk...
Hello.

My grandfather has just had a garage built and has been quoted, from what
I
can gather, a very reasonable price for getting electricity to the garage
via armoured cable from his house. The only problem I can see is the guy
doing the electrics, although a competent and ex-qualified electrician, is
no longer qualified (retired I think). I am aware of these new regulations
that have come into force in January this year but I'm wondering, can this
guy do the work and then get a qualified electrician to inspect and
provide
a certificate for the work? If so, how much is an inspection?

Thanks
Alan

The work was completed in December 2004 wasn't it ;-)


Good job they don't date stamp the cables.....

--
Tony Sayer

Good job they don't date stamp the cables.....

Dont give the gov any ideas ...

Dave

--
For what we are about to balls up may common sense prevent us doing it
again
in the future!!

Thanks, although it might be a bit more complicated than that. He only
recently had planning granted for the garage, after January in fact. Unless
he can get away with saying he pre-empted the garage being there!

So, I guess that getting certification after the event is a no no?

If, for example, my Grandfather were to sell next year and the buyers (or
buyers solicitor) pressed for certification of the electrical work done,
what should he do? I've tried telling him to get an up-to-date qualified
electrician to do the work to avoid future hassle but, it must be a
generation gap thing, he gets angered at having to fork out quite a bit more
money for exactly the same work. I guess he has a point though!

Allan


"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Jeff
writes

"Alan" wrote in message
.uk...
Hello.

My grandfather has just had a garage built and has been quoted, from
what
I
can gather, a very reasonable price for getting electricity to the
garage
via armoured cable from his house. The only problem I can see is the
guy
doing the electrics, although a competent and ex-qualified electrician,
is
no longer qualified (retired I think). I am aware of these new
regulations
that have come into force in January this year but I'm wondering, can
this
guy do the work and then get a qualified electrician to inspect and
provide
a certificate for the work? If so, how much is an inspection?

Thanks
Alan

The work was completed in December 2004 wasn't it ;-)


Good job they don't date stamp the cables.....

--
Tony Sayer

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 15:51:06 GMT, "Alan" wrote:

Thanks, although it might be a bit more complicated than that. He only
recently had planning granted for the garage, after January in fact. Unless
he can get away with saying he pre-empted the garage being there!

The work 'could have been started' before the garage was built - as long as it's finished by the end
of this month you're ok, so it couldn't be proved.

So, I guess that getting certification after the event is a no no?
No - you can still go the building control route.
Opinion seems to be divided over whether they are allowed to charge any more than the standard
building control fee for inspections etc.

If, for example, my Grandfather were to sell next year and the buyers (or
buyers solicitor) pressed for certification of the electrical work done,
what should he do?

Disconnect the feed at the house CU. Tell buyers it is their responsibility to inspect/certify etc.
if they reconnect.

The work was completed in December 2004 wasn't it ;-)
Thought the work only had to be started in Dec, so discussing it I'm sure
can be regarded as starting it.

Mike Harrison wrote:

If, for example, my Grandfather were to sell next year and the buyers (or
buyers solicitor) pressed for certification of the electrical work done,
what should he do?

Disconnect the feed at the house CU. Tell buyers it is their responsibility to inspect/certify etc.
if they reconnect.

I think it's highly unlikely anyone's going to focus on the electrical
aspects of the garage; he can prove he's got building regs approval and
planning permission and that should be the end of it. But of any
particularly anally retentive solicitor does home in on it, he should
just shrug his shoulders and say he hasn't got it; so what? Are the
buyers really going to pull out of the sale because it's missing,
particularly when there's no evidence that the electrical work's not
properly done?

David

It was somewhere outside Barstow when "Jeff"
wrote:

The work was completed in December 2004 wasn't it ;-)

Doesn't matter - it's when it began that counts. Now I'm sure that
building a garage must have taken that long, so the rules simply don't
come into effect on it.

Thanks for all the replies so far. So let me get this straight, he can say
that the cable was laid prior to January in anticipation of the garage being
erected (plausible), but, what about the electric work in the garage itself
i.e. sockets, lighting...that can't of existed without the garage being
built?

Mike, you said:

"as long as it's finished by the end of this month you're ok, so it couldn't
be proved."

does that mean with what's already been said about it being started prior to
2005, if the garage is finished, including electrics, by the end of March,
he has a valid story (so to speak!)?

It seems the worst he'll have to do is fork out the cost to get building
control to pass their eye over it at some later date?

Sorry about all the questions, just need to get as much advice for the sake
of my grandfather!

Thanks

Alan

Alan wrote:

It seems the worst he'll have to do is fork out the cost to get building
control to pass their eye over it at some later date?

Look at it this way
Building Control have better things to do than pay attention to these
matters unless you really insist on getting them involved.
You appear to a competent person in the frame to actually do the work.
So there is no reason to suppose that it will be in any way deficient.
In fact employing someone you know is probably a better way to get a
good job done than choosing AN Other proffering the right bit of paper.

Assuming the house continues to be lived in for many future years the
question of the existence or otherwise of bits of paper does not arise.

If it is sold a serious buyer wont be fussed about the bits of paper if
the 'lectrics look ok, and wont be pleased if their solicitors drags out
the process and the fees by making a fuss on their behalf. Non-serious
buyers should be told to go away anyhow.

If in the future some question arises then in the worst case you get the
whole house electrics inspected at that time.



--
David Clark

$message_body_include ="PLES RING IF AN RNSR IS REQIRD"

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 22:30:03 GMT, "Alan" wrote:

Thanks for all the replies so far. So let me get this straight, he can say
that the cable was laid prior to January in anticipation of the garage being
erected (plausible), but, what about the electric work in the garage itself
i.e. sockets, lighting...that can't of existed without the garage being
built?

Mike, you said:

"as long as it's finished by the end of this month you're ok, so it couldn't
be proved."

does that mean with what's already been said about it being started prior to
2005, if the garage is finished, including electrics, by the end of March,
he has a valid story (so to speak!)?

It seems the worst he'll have to do is fork out the cost to get building
control to pass their eye over it at some later date?

Sorry about all the questions, just need to get as much advice for the sake
of my grandfather!

Thanks

Alan


Work started before Jan 2005 does not fall under the new scam^x^x^x^xregulations if it is completed
before the end of Mar 2005.

tony sayer wrote:


Good job they don't date stamp the cables.....

Now you know the REAL reason why they changed the colours from red and
black. Anyone buying huge stocks of old twin and earth will have a
guaranteed business from DIY'ers for years.


--

No Spam wrote:
Now you know the REAL reason why they changed the colours from red and
black. Anyone buying huge stocks of old twin and earth will have a
guaranteed business from DIY'ers for years.

If I need to replace a piece of cable that's been damaged, for instance
between two sockets, do I need to tell anyone about it?

No Spam wrote:
tony sayer wrote:

Good job they don't date stamp the cables.....

Now you know the REAL reason why they changed the colours from red and
black. Anyone buying huge stocks of old twin and earth will have a
guaranteed business from DIY'ers for years.

I was in B&Q earlier today and noticed that there's not a sign of any of
the harmonised colours. I'd have been none the wiser that there had
been any changes at all.

Wickes, on the other hand, do have the new colours IIRC; and a notice on
the shelf directs you to their "Good Ideas" leaflet on the subject.
However, there are none to be had; apparently they have had a directive
from somewhere that they aren't allowed to give them out!

David

Lobster wrote:


I was in B&Q earlier today and noticed that there's not a sign of any of
the harmonised colours. I'd have been none the wiser that there had
been any changes at all.

Same in my local B&Q, however the local Wilkinsons does now have the new
colours on its T&E cables for sale.

Wickes, on the other hand, do have the new colours IIRC; and a notice on
the shelf directs you to their "Good Ideas" leaflet on the subject.
However, there are none to be had; apparently they have had a directive
from somewhere that they aren't allowed to give them out!

I noticed also that Woolworths only now have scraps of mains sockets and
switches for sale, and all of those were reduced in price, so perhaps
they are phasing out the stock ?

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

Mark Carver wrote in
:

Lobster wrote:


I was in B&Q earlier today and noticed that there's not a sign of any of
the harmonised colours. I'd have been none the wiser that there had
been any changes at all.

Same in my local B&Q, however the local Wilkinsons does now have the new
colours on its T&E cables for sale.

And B&Q are promoting their best-selling DIY book - with no (apparent - it
was a quickish look) mention of new colours, Part P or many other
legal/regulatory issues.

--
Rod

www.annalaurie.co.uk

Chris Bacon wrote:
No Spam wrote:
Now you know the REAL reason why they changed the colours from red and
black. Anyone buying huge stocks of old twin and earth will have a
guaranteed business from DIY'ers for years.

If I need to replace a piece of cable that's been damaged, for instance
between two sockets, do I need to tell anyone about it?

Hm? Any ideas?

On 10 Mar 2005, Chris Bacon wrote

Chris Bacon wrote:
No Spam wrote:
Now you know the REAL reason why they changed the colours from
red and black. Anyone buying huge stocks of old twin and earth
will have a guaranteed business from DIY'ers for years.

If I need to replace a piece of cable that's been damaged, for
instance between two sockets, do I need to tell anyone about it?

Hm? Any ideas?

The guidelines I've read on Part P have stated that simple replacement
of existing installations aren't notifiable, but I'm not sure if that
applies in the "special areas" (kitchens and bathrooms).

--
Cheers,
Harvey

Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
On 10 Mar 2005, Chris Bacon wrote
Chris Bacon wrote:
No Spam wrote:
Now you know the REAL reason why they changed the colours from
red and black. Anyone buying huge stocks of old twin and earth
will have a guaranteed business from DIY'ers for years.

If I need to replace a piece of cable that's been damaged, for
instance between two sockets, do I need to tell anyone about it?

Hm? Any ideas?

The guidelines I've read on Part P have stated that simple replacement
of existing installations aren't notifiable, but I'm not sure if that
applies in the "special areas" (kitchens and bathrooms).

So, if I want to convert my old radial to a ring, the pen-pushers
won't be able to tell. Great!

On 10 Mar 2005, Chris Bacon wrote

Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
On 10 Mar 2005, Chris Bacon wrote
Chris Bacon wrote:
No Spam wrote:
Now you know the REAL reason why they changed the colours from
red and black. Anyone buying huge stocks of old twin and
earth will have a guaranteed business from DIY'ers for years.

If I need to replace a piece of cable that's been damaged, for
instance between two sockets, do I need to tell anyone about
it?

Hm? Any ideas?

The guidelines I've read on Part P have stated that simple
replacement of existing installations aren't notifiable, but I'm
not sure if that applies in the "special areas" (kitchens and
bathrooms).

So, if I want to convert my old radial to a ring, the pen-pushers
won't be able to tell. Great!

Well, they may not be able to tell, but AIUI, since it's altering the
system (and not just replacing), it would need to be notified.

Many of the local authority sites have posted the guidelines -- this
one's from the EastHerts site (which also defines the "Special
Locations" mentioned below); it's at
http://www.eastherts.gov.uk/building...ulations_PartP
..htm#appendixa

-------(quote) ---------

Appendix A - Minor Work that need not be notified to Building Control

Work consisting of:

* Replacing accessories such as socket outlets, control switches
and ceiling roses
* Replacing the cable for a single circuit only where damaged (a)
* Re-fixing or replacing the enclosures of existing installation
components (b)
* Providing mechanical protection to existing fixed installations
(c)

Work that is not in a kitchen or special location and does not involve
a special installation (d) and consists of:

* Adding lighting points (light fittings and switches) to an
existing circuit (e)
* Adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or
radial circuit (e)
* Installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential
bonding (f)

Notes

(a)On condition that the replacement cable has the same current
carrying capacity, follows the same route and does not serve more than
one sub-circuit through a distribution board.
(b) If the circuit's protective measures are unaffected.
(c) If the circuit's protective measures and current carrying capacity
of conductors are unaffected by increased thermal insulation.
(d) Special locations and installations are listed in Appendix B below.
(e) Only if the existing circuit protective device is suitable and
provides protection for the modified circuit, and other relevant safety
provisions are satisfactory.
(f) Such work needs to comply with other applicable legislation such as
the Gas Safety (installation and use) regulations.

------- (/quote) ---------

--
Cheers,
Harvey

Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
On 10 Mar 2005, Chris Bacon wrote
Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
The guidelines I've read on Part P have stated that simple
replacement of existing installations aren't notifiable, but I'm
not sure if that applies in the "special areas" (kitchens and
bathrooms).

So, if I want to convert my old radial to a ring, the pen-pushers
won't be able to tell. Great!

Well, they may not be able to tell, but AIUI, since it's altering the
system (and not just replacing), it would need to be notified.

Ah, yes, it would need to be notified, and I'd need to pay a fee.
However, if I don't notify them, they won't know! Thanks for posting
that additional information, it all seems to be absolutely impossible
for them to keep tabs on. I'll start planning the new ring!

Harvey Van Sickle wrote:

On 10 Mar 2005, Chris Bacon wrote

Chris Bacon wrote:
No Spam wrote:
Now you know the REAL reason why they changed the colours from
red and black. Anyone buying huge stocks of old twin and earth
will have a guaranteed business from DIY'ers for years.

If I need to replace a piece of cable that's been damaged, for
instance between two sockets, do I need to tell anyone about it?

Hm? Any ideas?

The guidelines I've read on Part P have stated that simple replacement
of existing installations aren't notifiable, but I'm not sure if that
applies in the "special areas" (kitchens and bathrooms).

--
Cheers,
Harvey

I need to replace an old external armoured cable to my garage.
What do the regulations say about the cable to be used.

Do I need to use new armoured cable or can I use T&E in Flexicon?

Regards

In article ,
newman wrote:
I need to replace an old external armoured cable to my garage.
What do the regulations say about the cable to be used.

Do I need to use new armoured cable or can I use T&E in Flexicon?

I'd use armoured. The common sizes ain't really anymore expensive than
trying to protect T&E properly. TLC is a good source for cut lengths.

--
*That's it! I‘m calling grandma!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
newman wrote:
I need to replace an old external armoured cable to my garage.
What do the regulations say about the cable to be used.

Do I need to use new armoured cable or can I use T&E in Flexicon?

I'd use armoured. The common sizes ain't really anymore expensive than
trying to protect T&E properly. TLC is a good source for cut lengths.

--
*That's it! I‘m calling grandma!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Would the T&E and Flexicon be against regulations? The route is up a
wall and across a 3 ft. timber and into the garage.

Regards